Ambulance question

TheSneakiness · 09-05-2011, 10:28 AM

If this is in the wrong spot Mods, feel free to move it.

Was following two Ambulances out of Pacific Pines this morning (one F150 and one Mercedes), and the F150 took off as normal but for some reason the Mercedes was purposefully doing well under the speed limit. Initially me being the person I am I thought it was stolen and the thief was going slow to avoid suspicion, my wife then said there could be a patient in the back and something might be wrong and they have to go that slow.

What would be the reason they were going slow? By definition of slow I mean doing between 40-45km/h in a 70km/h zone.

If geckoGT reads this I'd be keen to know why this is.

geckoGT · 09-05-2011, 10:36 AM

Very unlikely to be stolen.

More likely to be loaded with a patient that was having procedures done that necessitate and very stable environment in which to work (eg airway management, insertion of an IV drip etc), but the crew still wanted to keep heading in the direction of the hospital. Not necessarily something wrong as such, just normal procedures. I am sure they sped up once the paramedic in the back was happy with the state of the patient and no more procedures were required. Sometimes we a better off starting transport slowly and doing these procedures in the back rather than staying on scene and doing them there, some distance closer to hospital is better than no closer to hospital.

The second vehicle is likely to be a unit sent for assistance with patient stabilisation, an Intensive Care Paramedic or a crew to assist with a patient lift or extrication.

I hope that helps.

JG65TE · 09-05-2011, 10:36 AM

what code ? lights ? sirens ? both ? . probably working on a soul in the back, or the other case of go slow is awaiting other orders

Spudz27 · 09-05-2011, 10:38 AM

It could very well be the reason. I have driven below the limit many times, for various reasons, usually because a patient is in massive amounts of pain etc. Another one is a patient who is critical and also if we have the neo natal unit (RFDS transfers). The vans were not designed for comfort and often critical patients (even time critical with lights and sirens you could see an ambulance driving slow) require the paramedic to be constantly standing in the back, putting a line in etc, so I would go around corners at almost idle and take off so slow it would take what seemed like years to get to 60,.

geckoGT · 09-05-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG65TE

, or the other case of go slow is awaiting other orders

In this case we normally just sit and chill in a safe area on the side of the road or in a car park, we don't hinder the flow of traffic for no reason.

geckoGT · 09-05-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudz27

It could very well be the reason. I have driven below the limit many times, for various reasons, usually because a patient is in massive amounts of pain etc. Another one is a patient who is critical and also if we have the neo natal unit (RFDS transfers). The vans were not designed for comfort and often critical patients (even time critical with lights and sirens you could see an ambulance driving slow) require the paramedic to be constantly standing in the back, putting a line in etc, so I would go around corners at almost idle and take off so slow it would take what seemed like years to get to 60,.

Been there many times

Not all urgent cases go to hospital at high speed and with light and siren going, in fact very few do. It all depends on what the patient needs and what the paramedic is doing at the time. Sometimes we have no choice but to completely stop, such as when my patient re-arrested the other day. It must have looked strange, code 1 pushing traffic out of the way, then we stopped for about 5 minutes when he went into cardiac arrest, got him back and then continued code 1 to hospital. The good news is he lived.

TheSneakiness · 09-05-2011, 10:55 AM

Thanks guys. Should listen to my wife I think...

Spudz27 · 09-05-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Been there many times

Not all urgent cases go to hospital at high speed and with light and siren going, in fact very few do. It all depends on what the patient needs and what the paramedic is doing at the time. Sometimes we have no choice but to completely stop, such as when my patient re-arrested the other day. It must have looked strange, code 1 pushing traffic out of the way, then we stopped for about 5 minutes when he went into cardiac arrest, got him back and then continued code 1 to hospital. The good news is he lived.

I have not had to stop yet, but I did once have to wait at a patients house for a back up van. The patient was well and truly having a heart attack and 3/4 of the way out to the house the solenoid on the turbo failed, so you could imagine how slow we were with lights and sirens then lol. We had to keep going and it was not fun, we could barely get past a tractor and when the hills came, boy did I think we were stuffed. So we called a back up crew to come and grab our **** ambulance from the patients house and pretty much did all the work we needed while we waited. This house was 30km from our depo.

geckoGT · 09-05-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Thanks guys. Should listen to my wife I think...

No worries, some things we do can appear very strange. Sometimes going slower is faster for treatment than going fast.

geckoGT · 09-05-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudz27

I have not had to stop yet, but I did once have to wait at a patients house for a back up van. The patient was well and truly having a heart attack and 3/4 of the way out to the house the solenoid on the turbo failed, so you could imagine how slow we were with lights and sirens then lol. We had to keep going and it was not fun, we could barely get past a tractor and when the hills came, boy did I think we were stuffed. So we called a back up crew to come and grab our **** ambulance from the patients house and pretty much did all the work we needed while we waited. This house was 30km from our depo.

Let me guess, a new model Merc?

Spudz27 · 09-05-2011, 11:02 AM

Actually it was the previous model sprinter, the 05 or 06 version.

geckoGT · 09-05-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudz27

Actually it was the previous model sprinter, the 05 or 06 version.

Yes we had the same issue with a few of the older ones but from my experience it seems to occur with the new Sprinter 319 more regularly. the other issue is they sometimes go into limp home mode for no reason (limits you to 40 km/h) but resets after turning the vehicle off and restarting. Mercedes is still trying to find a cure for these issues.

Embarrassing when it happens but what do you do? At least it is not a lack of servicing causing it, ours are serviced every month regardless of km's and they never reach the km limit between services in each month. At least it doesn't in our station and we have one of the highest case loads and longer transport distances of all QAS stations, so much so we had to double the size of our station to keep up.

geckoGT · 09-05-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

If this is in the wrong spot Mods, feel free to move it.

Was following two Ambulances out of Pacific Pines this morning (one F150 and one Mercedes), and the F150 took off as normal but for some reason the Mercedes was purposefully doing well under the speed limit.

By the way, it was more likely a F350, perhaps a F250 if it was a really old one. QAS does not use F150 as they are not rated to the required weight, in fact we changed from F250-F350 because the F250 were found to be over their GVM at full load due to increasing equipment we carry.

The F350 are being phased out and in the next few years will virtually disappear, the replacements are now all Mercedes Sprinter 319 and soon some 519 Cab Chassis (these will be dual stretcher models based on a large pod fitout like the Fords) for emergency vehicles. Patient transport use the Mercedes Sprinter 316 from memory, same size van but a less powerful motor.

grandpa_spec_F6 · 09-05-2011, 06:27 PM

I know some of the lads who are building the new ones (the fatty vans) and boy do they have some cool bits and pieces!

I think they are based off the Mercs from memory.

93EB_SXR6 · 09-05-2011, 06:53 PM

You guys save lives every day

Good on all you ambulance lads.

Franco Cozzo · 09-05-2011, 07:08 PM

How do you guys go actually working an entire shift in those things? I'm 185cm tall and its a real pain trying to stand up in the thing when I'm working on it. Get a real sore back.

Bastards to work on those Sprinters.

2011G6E · 09-05-2011, 07:35 PM

I was in the ambulance service waaaay back from 1982 to 1985 as an auxiliary. Once or twice a week at night for about eight hours...it was great fun!
A bit of history about what we drove back then (this was in Bundaberg):
* The big bopper...an F100 "crash wagon" capable of holding four stretcher cases in "double decker beds", one each side. It was powered by a 351 4V motor with a Holley backed by an FMX box and a nine inch diff. Did it haul ***...I vividly recall hanging on for dear life in the passenger seat as it went bellowing along Bargara Road to get to a fatal accident, right up the middle of the road scattering cars, doing 160kph...
* Three or four XB Falcon ambulances...all with 302's and autos, for basic use around town.
* One very quick CM Valiant with a 265 Hemi and auto.
* A couple of other F100's fitted with 302's and autos as well.
* Finally, The Holy Grail...the one that almost had people coming to blows when it came up for auction I heard some time later.
This was in the days before Bundy had an air ambulance to transport people to Brisbane for special treatment. They needed something fast and smooth to get people there in a hurry.
It was a HZ Premier-based (well it had Premier front sheet metal with twin headlights) ambulance with a low back (not as high as a normal ambulance roof, more like a normal panel van). It had special suspension, four wheel disk brakes, the interior in front had two Monaro bucket seats and center console with a t-bar shift (unlike all the others with column shift auto), and the full instrument sports dash (the one with round instruments in a moulding that looked like square pods). It was an "end of the line" model with the Commodore-type combination indicator switch.
The good bit now. Under the hood was a worked...and I mean worked...308 with extractors and four barrel Holley and a lot of internal work like cam and forged stuff. It was backed by a Turbo 350 auto with a shift kit.
The damn thing had a rumpety-rump worked V8 exhaust, and went like the proverbial off a shiny shovel. Twice I personally saw the speedo go past 200kph and sit there with ease, floating along in comfort, when transporting an urgent case to hospital from outside town. Awesome machine...

Nowadays I follow ambulances and see Mercedes vans bumbling along...how times have changed...

Spudz27 · 09-05-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I was in the ambulance service waaaay back from 1982 to 1985 as an auxiliary. Once or twice a week at night for about eight hours...it was great fun!
A bit of history about what we drove back then (this was in Bundaberg):
* The big bopper...an F100 "crash wagon" capable of holding four stretcher cases in "double decker beds", one each side. It was powered by a 351 4V motor with a Holley backed by an FMX box and a nine inch diff. Did it haul ***...I vividly recall hanging on for dear life in the passenger seat as it went bellowing along Bargara Road to get to a fatal accident, right up the middle of the road scattering cars, doing 160kph...
* Three or four XB Falcon ambulances...all with 302's and autos, for basic use around town.
* One very quick CM Valiant with a 265 Hemi and auto.
* A couple of other F100's fitted with 302's and autos as well.
* Finally, The Holy Grail...the one that almost had people coming to blows when it came up for auction I heard some time later.
This was in the days before Bundy had an air ambulance to transport people to Brisbane for special treatment. They needed something fast and smooth to get people there in a hurry.
It was a HZ Premier-based (well it had Premier front sheet metal with twin headlights) ambulance with a low back (not as high as a normal ambulance roof, more like a normal panel van). It had special suspension, four wheel disk brakes, the interior in front had two Monaro bucket seats and center console with a t-bar shift (unlike all the others with column shift auto), and the full instrument sports dash (the one with round instruments in a moulding that looked like square pods). It was an "end of the line" model with the Commodore-type combination indicator switch.
The good bit now. Under the hood was a worked...and I mean worked...308 with extractors and four barrel Holley and a lot of internal work like cam and forged stuff. It was backed by a Turbo 350 auto with a shift kit.
The damn thing had a rumpety-rump worked V8 exhaust, and went like the proverbial off a shiny shovel. Twice I personally saw the speedo go past 200kph and sit there with ease, floating along in comfort, when transporting an urgent case to hospital from outside town. Awesome machine...

Nowadays I follow ambulances and see Mercedes vans bumbling along...how times have changed...

Sure have. People have realised driving at over 200kph is dangerous hahahaha.

geckoGT · 10-05-2011, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I was in the ambulance service waaaay back from 1982 to 1985 as an auxiliary. Once or twice a week at night for about eight hours...it was great fun!
A bit of history about what we drove back then (this was in Bundaberg):
* The big bopper...an F100 "crash wagon" capable of holding four stretcher cases in "double decker beds", one each side. It was powered by a 351 4V motor with a Holley backed by an FMX box and a nine inch diff. Did it haul ***...I vividly recall hanging on for dear life in the passenger seat as it went bellowing along Bargara Road to get to a fatal accident, right up the middle of the road scattering cars, doing 160kph...
* Three or four XB Falcon ambulances...all with 302's and autos, for basic use around town.
* One very quick CM Valiant with a 265 Hemi and auto.
* A couple of other F100's fitted with 302's and autos as well.
* Finally, The Holy Grail...the one that almost had people coming to blows when it came up for auction I heard some time later.
This was in the days before Bundy had an air ambulance to transport people to Brisbane for special treatment. They needed something fast and smooth to get people there in a hurry.
It was a HZ Premier-based (well it had Premier front sheet metal with twin headlights) ambulance with a low back (not as high as a normal ambulance roof, more like a normal panel van). It had special suspension, four wheel disk brakes, the interior in front had two Monaro bucket seats and center console with a t-bar shift (unlike all the others with column shift auto), and the full instrument sports dash (the one with round instruments in a moulding that looked like square pods). It was an "end of the line" model with the Commodore-type combination indicator switch.
The good bit now. Under the hood was a worked...and I mean worked...308 with extractors and four barrel Holley and a lot of internal work like cam and forged stuff. It was backed by a Turbo 350 auto with a shift kit.
The damn thing had a rumpety-rump worked V8 exhaust, and went like the proverbial off a shiny shovel. Twice I personally saw the speedo go past 200kph and sit there with ease, floating along in comfort, when transporting an urgent case to hospital from outside town. Awesome machine...

Nowadays I follow ambulances and see Mercedes vans bumbling along...how times have changed...

Yep, now we have helicopters that get there in a fraction of the time, in greater safety and don't risk the lives of thousands of other road users, how times have changed.

Quote:

How do you guys go actually working an entire shift in those things? I'm 185cm tall and its a real pain trying to stand up in the thing when I'm working on it. Get a real sore back.

At 182 cm I find the damn aircon unit in the back a couple of times a day, you would think I would know where it is by now. My partner is about 5'3" and can stand upright, does not even duck her head, sometimes I hate her.

Quote:

Bastards to work on those Sprinters

Well stop building them that way

Quote:

I know some of the lads who are building the new ones (the fatty vans) and boy do they have some cool bits and pieces!

I think they are based off the Mercs from memory.

Heavy Haulage? They are a Sprinter 519 cab chassis with custom pod, equipped to take a 500 kg patient (no that is not a typo). The next variant to come out is the Sprinter 519 dual stretcher unit, similar pod but fitted with dual standard stretchers. Dual stretcher will mean that none of us will want to work on them, two patients equals double the work and double the paperwork, we can be a lazy mob sometimes.

Quote:

You guys save lives every day

Good on all you ambulance lads

Not today I didn't, saved some people some petrol money though. Had a "proud to be a cabbie" day.

Dave3911 · 10-05-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

How do you guys go actually working an entire shift in those things? I'm 185cm tall and its a real pain trying to stand up in the thing when I'm working on it. Get a real sore back.

Bastards to work on those Sprinters.

Who in Victoria is still turning out Ambulances? SEM? I thought Mader was doing the majority of the work nowadays.

2011G6E · 10-05-2011, 10:14 AM

Yes well, back then we didn't have Careflight helicopters and as I said, they used the excellent HZ ambulance to transport people to Brisbane in the days before the air ambulance.

Mind you, despite the speeds we did, there weren't any accidents...people actually got out of the way of a huge yellow F100 with all the lights going, and the things were modified to handle the speeds.
Well...apart from the XB Falcons...they wallowed a fair bit...but when the bells went for a triple O call (back then the calls didn't go to a central call center in some other state...They went directly to the closest ambulance station to where the call had been made. Telstra dropped this to save costs...

) you knew what sort of accident you were dealing with, and if it was something urgent, you took one of the hot rods...if it was just someone who's fallen over the dog, you took one of the XB's.

fmc351 · 10-05-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Thanks guys. Should listen to my wife I think...

This is always a good idea, even if she is wrong. At least pretend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yes well, back then we didn't have Careflight helicopters and as I said, they used the excellent HZ ambulance to transport people to Brisbane in the days before the air ambulance.

Excellent, youre the bloke to ask.

Late 80's early 90's I was living in Moy Pocket (near Kenilworth, Sunny Coast) and a friend and his wife were visiting, she was pregnant. Anyway she had some pain and was freaking out so we called an ambulance (it was all fine in the end). One was sent from one station (not sure which), and another from Maleney, each only had one officer. My driveway was over 1km long and not exactly smooth or well lit, and the road I lived on, let alone the driveway itself was hard to find, I had to meet them at the gate maybe an hour before dark.

So when they took her, both officers were in the same vehicle leaving one unattended. So I half jokingly offered to drive it back for them, they refused to accept my offer saying it wasnt allowed etc. But then as it was getting dark, and the officers werent certain they could find their way back and actually took me up on the offer, but only to the main road (Eumundi Kenilworth Rd) about 4 or 5 kms, where it was left, locked and they collected it later.

Mate, those buggers have some poke. I asked the officer who drove the vehicle what was in it, and he told me it had a Keith Black designed 351 with IIRC an 850 Holley. Is that true? Did Keith Black design and build the engines for the old 80's era F truck ambos or was he feeding me a porkies? I could believe it due to the power it had and I didnt exactly floor it, dirt roads and well its an ambo and I didnt want to shunt a tree. But damn it got to 100 quick for a truck.

GoldCoastGTP · 10-05-2011, 12:05 PM

Not the ambos but back in the early 80's - now i am showing my age when I joined the plods we had the F100 cage (divvy) vans some were the 6 cyls and a few were the 351 monsters that could keep up with the XD and XE traffic cars on the old Pac Hwy - them were the days

2011G6E · 10-05-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Mate, those buggers have some poke. I asked the officer who drove the vehicle what was in it, and he told me it had a Keith Black designed 351 with IIRC an 850 Holley. Is that true? Did Keith Black design and build the engines for the old 80's era F truck ambos or was he feeding me a porkies? I could believe it due to the power it had and I didnt exactly floor it, dirt roads and well its an ambo and I didnt want to shunt a tree. But damn it got to 100 quick for a truck.

I don't think they would have sprung for a Keith Black motor...the V8's in the ambulances in Bundy in the early eighties were mostly stock, except for the "crash wagon" F100 which had a Ford 351 in it which had some work done...but apart from being a tough 4V motor and having a big Holley, it was pretty stock i think.
That said, they did spring for the large amount of work done on the 308 in that HZ...I saw the packages when they rebuilt it shortly before I started...Sig Erson cam, Moroso this, Edelbrock that...four barrel Holley, extractors (Pacemaker I think), I believe Yella Terra heads, all the usual stuff that you did to a good old Aussie V8 to get it singing. It was also backed by a Turbo 350 box...maybe for the extra weight as a Traumatic wouldn't have handled it?

So yes, way back then they didn't mind spending a fair bit of money on what was under the bonnet on certain ambulances, but I couldn't say anything about a Keith Black. Designed by Keith Black is another matter...there would be nothing to stop the QAS back then getting onto the Keith Black business and asking advice, saying, for example, "We've got these F100's, they're going to weigh maybe three tons, they have to go at high speeds for long periods and be totally reliable and not be a pig in traffic...can you do us a spec for suitable modifications for an engine based on a 351?"

I still wonder where that HZ ambulance ended up...would have made an awesome panel van!

GoldCoastGTP · 10-05-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I still wonder where that HZ ambulance ended up...would have made an awesome panel van!

I am pretty sure I have seen one owned by a sparky - possibly not the big banger - still the baby crud yellow

geckoGT · 10-05-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yes well, back then we didn't have Careflight helicopters and as I said, they used the excellent HZ ambulance to transport people to Brisbane in the days before the air ambulance.

Mind you, despite the speeds we did, there weren't any accidents...people actually got out of the way of a huge yellow F100 with all the lights going, and the things were modified to handle the speeds.
Well...apart from the XB Falcons...they wallowed a fair bit...but when the bells went for a triple O call (back then the calls didn't go to a central call center in some other state...They went directly to the closest ambulance station to where the call had been made. Telstra dropped this to save costs...

) you knew what sort of accident you were dealing with, and if it was something urgent, you took one of the hot rods...if it was just someone who's fallen over the dog, you took one of the XB's.

And now the calls go to a central call centre in the region from which you are calling, ones that I know of are Maroochydore, Brisbane and Southport but I am sure there are more. We still get details of the call and knwo when to give it a nudge and when it is most likely mutton dressed as lamb. Now the calls don't go to the closest station, they go to the closest vehicle and the end result is statewide we are achieving response times far better than they were in the eighties. I still work with some officers that were around in the eighties and they say the same thing.

I have also driven some 80's era ambos extensively (F100 petrol and F250 petrol) and yes they had V8's but they were not exactly a rocket ship, once up to speed they could hold a good speed without difficulty but the acceleration was not great. In terms of acceleration the new Mercs would dust them off. The difference back than is a lot of ambulances, particularly in regional areas were local fitout, some brigades were known to throw some extras in.

But I have no doubt people used to get out of the way back then, the times are changing and it seems getting to the pub or the video library is more important than letting the ambulance through.

2011G6E · 10-05-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

But I have no doubt people used to get out of the way back then, the times are changing and it seems getting to the pub or the video library is more important than letting the ambulance through.

Yes indeed...I see it happening in Rockhampton when we drive down there for a shopping trip. After I left the ambulance I was in the fire brigade for a few years as an auxiliary as well. You could sit behind someone in a massive red truck with light flashing and sirens blaring, and people will bumble along as if you weren't there.

Sadly I see it hasn't changed much...nice to keep some of the old traditions...

geckoGT · 10-05-2011, 12:52 PM

Actually I just thought of some differences with the old school effies. During my driver training we had 2 80's era ambos as training vehicles. One was a F100 with white bonnet (known as the Old Girl) and a carby V8 in it. The other was a F250 with a black bonnet (known as Black Betty) which had the EFI V8. All the others were the newer F250 and F350 blue bonnets with the powerstroke diesel.

Out of the 2, the F100 was the favourite of students and instructors alike as it hasd some go. May god rest both their souls.

Dave3911 · 10-05-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

back then the calls didn't go to a central call center in some other state...They went directly to the closest ambulance station to where the call had been made. Telstra dropped this to save costs...

This has confused me somewhat..... what exactly did the QLD ambulance service do with their 000 call process in the 80s? They outsourced it to another state? I find that hard to believe.

Or are you confusing the introduction of the national 000 system which saw all 000 calls answered by a Telstra call centre which screened the calls before putting them through? The same system that exists nationwide today.

2011G6E · 10-05-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3911

This has confused me somewhat..... what exactly did the QLD ambulance service do with their 000 call process in the 80s? They outsourced it to another state? I find that hard to believe.

Or are you confusing the introduction of the national 000 system which saw all 000 calls answered by a Telstra call centre which screened the calls before putting them through? The same system that exists nationwide today.

Back then, when people "called the ambulance", it was either a non-urgent call and they phoned a normal phone number which went to the switchboard in the station, or if it was a triple 0 call, it went first to Telstra at the closest one of a whole lot of regional exchanges where they would ask the simple question "Which emergency service do you need?", and then it would be directed straight to the ambulance station itself. They never asked where you were, as they already knew which town you were in as, well, it was an exchange in the area and they obviously knew which town the call had come from. When a 000 call came in, it would trigger sirens instead of the basic bell which meant a normal local call had come in. By the time the operator at the station exchange was getting the details, you were sitting in the idling ambulance looking through the window at him and waiting to pull out onto the street, just waiting for the word on which way to head.
After the system changed, I do recall quite a few problems reported in the media...stuff like having to spend time describing your location to the operator as they could be in another state (one memorable one was an operator activating the ambulances in Maryborough in Victoria, when Maryborough in Queensland was where the problem was...). I even remember having to patiently spend some time to give directions and carefully spell out the street name when my father had his last big heart attack back in 1998..."what town are you in?"..."what street number"..."how do you spell that street name again?"..."and that's in Queensland, right?". I'm afraid I said some rather uncharitable and downright rude things to that woman on the other end of the phone...
I've no doubt the new system is very good, but it has caused issues over the years.

Ah well...as long as someone somewhere saved a few bucks for their beaurocratic master when they came up with the new system, it's all good...