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#1 | ||
Formally Kia Chaser
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,493
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http://www.hsvforum.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=5333
HSV has confirmed it will begin selling an LPG-powered version of its V8-powered performance cars from 2010. Holden Special Vehicles will next year market an LPG-based dual fuel option for models in its high-performance range that owners haven’t asked for, and its dealers don’t want. HSV admits that fuel economy does not rate in its customers’ top 10 concerns and managing director Phil Harding says HSV dealers have openly opposed the plan but that he was committed to doing it anyway. “I’ve done a survey with my dealers and they’ve told me they don’t want it and I said ‘I don’t believe you’,” he says. “So I’m doing this program without a solid customer demand for it. But I know that we started this program when petrol was $1.60 and heading north, and does anyone want to speculate that that won’t come back? “My philosophy is that I’ve got to have that (LPG) in the cupboard. If we start off and people don’t option it, that’s fine, but there will come a point where they will.” With the motoring world focusing on cleaner, greener cars and European performance rivals leading the charge to cut consumptions and emissions, Mr Harding admits HSV has no choice but to pursue an alternative fuels policy for its V8-based range of performance cars. “We’re convinced it will become an issue and we’re trying to pre-empt that,” he says. “When fuel was $1.60 and companies were thinking that maybe they shouldn’t have V8s on their company car fleet, we felt we had to respond to that with some action. “That’s the way this program started and I’ve come to love this program so much that I’ll do it anyway.” HSV rejected diesel power in favour of an innovative LPG system, called liquid petroleum injection (LPI), which maximises the fuel’s power and economy benefits. “We genuinely did look seriously at diesel,” he says. “We had an engineering prototype with a diesel engine in it, then it goes through a business case. Diesel fell over for investment and return, the LPI package didn’t.” HSV still has E85 – an ethanol-rich blend of petrol – on its radar as a secondary alternative fuel strategy. “That will come when people get more excited about that in terms of availability.” For now though, HSV is focusing its energy on the LPI system. “We have vehicles undergoing cold weather testing, we’ve got engines on test beds,” Mr Harding says. The system will be offered as a cost option across all models in the HSV range except for its station wagon, the R8 Tourer. The LPG tank will be installed in the boot in sedans and in the tray for utes, and fully trimmed to eliminate its visibility. “Where before you might get three golf bags into the boot of one of our cars, with the tank in there you’ll probably still fit two,” Mr Harding says. “Because it’s dual fuel, when you floor the throttle it goes back to petrol. Those who have driven it can’t tell which mode it’s in, because it’s seamless. “It will become accepted and one of the things I want to do is get rid of the taxi-type stigma with the cars. “Why wouldn’t you take the car, because you’ll spend less on the fuel.”
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Kia Grand Carnival (2006) Silver, Grill Mesh, Tints, Sidesteps (with lights), Towbar, 7" Touch Screen DVD Tuner with intergrated GPS & Bluetooth, Roof Mounted Flip Down 15.1" LCD Screen, Reverse Camera - 184Kw HSV Clubsport R8 VY (2003) Black, 6sp Manual, Coulson Seats, Red on black interior, Pacemaker extractors, Twin 2.5" exhaust, Custom Red 20" VE GTS Rims, Custom Red Stitching
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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To be honest this program makes far more sense then AFM.... The BIGGEST mistake is not offering it on the R8 Touring hatch, which would be its biggest drawcard...
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,770
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The LPG tank would probably fill the entire load area in the Hatch... so therefore they're not offering it perhaps?
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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Still confused at HSV that apparantly offer top of the line product based on their brand and then do not take advantage of Liquid injection by trying to save a few dollars and using an inferior product.
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
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#5 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Quote:
( ps; I'm not being sarcastic but i'm not hearing any good economy figures with direct liquid injection . vapour injection seems ok though -loses around 10% ) Last edited by gtfpv; 27-12-2009 at 06:47 PM. |
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#6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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Quote:
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
Last edited by ratter; 27-12-2009 at 08:28 PM. |
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#7 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Quote:
good to hear some real world results off owners , now what would you get on petrol ?? then we'll work out the percentage loss and savings . i have heard some owners say they are losing up to 30% on liquid injection. incidently our GT IS USING 18.7 LTRES PER 100 ON 98 RON AV SPD 37KM/HR AND I AM AN LPG MAN , IF xr6's come out on lpg with dynamic stability control and 5 speed gear box , them i'm buying one , even if its egas. |
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#8 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
If these are only aftermarket conversions then there is a huge difference in plugging in a "farkle" and deploying a system that MUST last at least 100,000km and 3 years and should last 250,000km and 10 years. It would be a VERY embarrassing and expensive situation if these direct injection systems went silly or failed completely after a year or two or 50,000km or in extreme heat like most of Australia or cold like Tassie or Canberra or in sustained wet like half of QLD, WA and NT. If a company were to experiment with this new technology I suspect that the flagship product would probably not be the best place to start. |
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#9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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Quote:
Ford Australia is apparanatly, if rumours are true will be using liquid injection in it's new range of E-gas falcons
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
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#10 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
As for people saying the LPi HSV might be able to make more power, its pretty obvious it won't as it needs to switch to petrol under full throttle. Their dual fuel is nothing short of a compromise. If they had built it specifically as a single fuel LPG engine they could have optimised it with cam specs and higher compression, but obviously HSV are only good at getting engines out of a crate. |
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,374
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Good move i say , If there was a duel fuel option on my 8 when i bought it i would off ticked the box
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#12 | ||
GTX Turbo & KB Blown
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Whistling, GTX.
Posts: 2,937
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Who needs dual fuel...
My G6E Turbo is right on 11L per 100k's. Driving to and from work, Taylors Lakes to Campbellfield everyday (52k round trip) and using it on the weekends. If I REALLY TRIED I reckon I could probably get it to 10.5l per 100k. But where is the fun in that? If I owned a HSV... if I really tried... maybe 13l per 100k? And my car in every respect is faster and better... and cheaper to insure. HSV... I don't want one. lol
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DARTH 2008 FG G6ET
465.6rwkw not a 10 @ 134.81 MPH SNOW WHITE 2004 BA FPV PURSUIT 2.6L Kenne Bell Brembos all round Twin Screw Awesomeness Supported, serviced and tuned by BLUEPOWER RACING DEVELOPMENTS http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11354744 |
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#13 | |||
The Vengeful One
![]() Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tazzy
Posts: 12,762
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Quote:
Everyone listen to this guy!!
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,374
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Quote:
I highly doubt it |
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#15 | |||
GTX Turbo & KB Blown
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Whistling, GTX.
Posts: 2,937
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Quote:
And that is on 98ron fuel too. I actually switched from BP to Mobil and don't flame me here but I was able to drop 0.3L per 100k's just from the fuel with me not having any honest input to it. Same driving, same trip. Go figure. And for those that think I baby my car. I don't. I use the Melton Highway and Western Ring Road from 6.30am everyday. Don't start me on the Melton Highway at that time in the morning...
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DARTH 2008 FG G6ET
465.6rwkw not a 10 @ 134.81 MPH SNOW WHITE 2004 BA FPV PURSUIT 2.6L Kenne Bell Brembos all round Twin Screw Awesomeness Supported, serviced and tuned by BLUEPOWER RACING DEVELOPMENTS http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11354744 |
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#16 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,374
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Quote:
That company is hsv , yes it will most likely need special servicing but at a saving of $5 a day thats over $1500 for the year it will cover it . An the power there when you need it . Also for the record the liquid injection systems make more power and torque then petrol does . I know this is the ford forums and when holden/hsv does something good it is bad for us . But somtimes you need to sit back and give credit when its due . |
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#17 | ||||
Life begins at 40
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne. Socialist capital of Victoriastan.
Posts: 3,715
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Quote:
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Quote:
Justice is what you get when you run out of money.
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#18 | |||
GTX Turbo & KB Blown
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Whistling, GTX.
Posts: 2,937
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Quote:
It has also provided me with a .3L per 100k's saving. I'm not in to driving around to try and save fuel, I don't have the time. I work out that my personal time, be it driving to and from work or my own time on the weekend is worth $100 a hour. If it costs me more than that to get around to try and save money then to me it isn't worth it. I suggest you do the same and you will start to have a different view on the world.
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DARTH 2008 FG G6ET
465.6rwkw not a 10 @ 134.81 MPH SNOW WHITE 2004 BA FPV PURSUIT 2.6L Kenne Bell Brembos all round Twin Screw Awesomeness Supported, serviced and tuned by BLUEPOWER RACING DEVELOPMENTS http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11354744 |
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#19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
52km @ 11l/100km is 5.72 litres I paid $1.32/litre for Ultimate 98 this morning so $1.32 * 5.72 = $7.54 Round trip means there and back.... It is quite amusing all this talk of dual fuel "performance" vehicles that will save maybe $500 a year in a forum where almost everyone spends several thousand on a flash, exhaust and whatever and a $more on new wheels and funny sized tyres, stereo upgrades not to mention $1000 on stripes.... |
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,374
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Quote:
at 13lt/100 and 60cents a litre see which one comes up trumps. How many people use full performance of the car all day , my ute is lucky if the loud pedal touches the floor once a month. |
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#21 | |||
GTX Turbo & KB Blown
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Whistling, GTX.
Posts: 2,937
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Quote:
to me at least 20c per L... lol Only joking mate. I just won't own an LPG car. Sorry I am sure it has it's benefits all over the place. But my car was designed to run on liquid fuel, not liquid gas. If my car was designed to run on straight LPG then I would run straight LPG. It wasn't so I won't. Dual Fuel is a compromise. One is a wet fuel and the other a dry fuel. They in an fuel sense are completely different in their relationship to an engine, the way it is built and the way it is designed. I am not looking to start a fight on here at all. But if my engine/car was BUILT for LPG then I would run it. It isn't so I won't.
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DARTH 2008 FG G6ET
465.6rwkw not a 10 @ 134.81 MPH SNOW WHITE 2004 BA FPV PURSUIT 2.6L Kenne Bell Brembos all round Twin Screw Awesomeness Supported, serviced and tuned by BLUEPOWER RACING DEVELOPMENTS http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11354744 |
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#22 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
It does not really matter. If you are of the "must save money" mindset you are quite unlikely to buy a new HSV or FPV as both are quite expensive and depreciate at a huge rate. You are far more likely to buy secondhand or if new then the more basic, lower end model. Two points: 1) All of my FPVs and my Z have had the load pedal on the floor almost daily as have most of the "performance" vehicles owned by everyone I know. 2) Your ute is not a FPV or HSV it is a Falcon. |
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#23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,137
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Just another thing to laugh at. Nothing says "try hard" like a modern performance car on LPG.
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#24 | |||
GTX Turbo & KB Blown
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Whistling, GTX.
Posts: 2,937
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Quote:
I didn't buy my car because of Craig Lowndes in a V8 Supercar. I bought it because it is EASILY the best car in class. And by mentioning that it doesn't have an LSD you OBVIOUSLY don't own one. So clearly. No car NEEDS an LSD. Wanna have fun around a corner, want your car impounded? Yep LSD. Wanna get around town with minimal fuss? Not required mate. I have no doubt that it would make my car slightly more fun, I really do. But I am talking 10/10ths stuff. So how often do you use an LSD in car? If it is more than 1 time a day... and I am being kind then you maybe should re assess how you drive on the road.
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DARTH 2008 FG G6ET
465.6rwkw not a 10 @ 134.81 MPH SNOW WHITE 2004 BA FPV PURSUIT 2.6L Kenne Bell Brembos all round Twin Screw Awesomeness Supported, serviced and tuned by BLUEPOWER RACING DEVELOPMENTS http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11354744 |
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#25 | |||
as in chopped
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,991
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Quote:
The point I was making was in reference to your statement that the G6ET is better in every way (which it is not). I can see where you are coming from if you mean it is a great stealth performance car for the street. No cops looking at you, no bogans trying to race you etc. Also it has a great interior (nice place to be) so overall an excellent car in that regard. Plenty on the road too. I'm just saying the FPV/HSV do offer more in regards to all round performance, especially at the track. (so they should, they cost more!)
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#26 | ||
I ♥ EDM
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,141
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Never liked the idea of dual fuel in a car, won't into detail about how I formed that opinion. Either straight gas or straight petrol. I agree with the idea of buyers of brand new HSV/FPV's are not going to care about the cost of their fuel and always will insist the best for their car regardless of cost (They may be embarrassed about having an LPG sticker on their personalised plates lol). In fact, a lot would probably tire of having to ensure that adequate amounts of both fuel/gas are available all the time. Instead of 1 gauge showing 1 tank of something and thats it. Just a thought...
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#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,374
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Quote:
Just incase i think im going mad Hypothetically there a two gt's sitting at the dealer. (1 petrol 1 gas ) Gas 320kw 1/4 time = 13sec An cost you $9 dollars every 100k (15/100k at 60c) Petrol 315kw 1/4 time = 13.05 An cost you $15.60 every 100k (13/100k at $1.20) You would still chose the petrol because it your passion . Is this correct ? |
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#28 | ||||
Performance Inc.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In a cave
Posts: 2,554
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Quote:
By proven I mean reliability wise, engine wear wise, and repeatable power wise with factory backed warranty. I am not an expert on BBQ fuel, peas would be nice tho........
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In The Garage... ![]() FPV Super Pursuit Build no 0080/91 Lotus Exige S/C S240 Kart Hasse Chassis 100J Power Quote:
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#29 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
Petrol, 315kw $1.50 a litre and available GAS, who cares there is none..... Quote:
People who do not spend their lives within 30 minutes of a MacDonalds drive through tend to look at fuel a bit differently. In 2003/2004 My BA GT-P almost always had a 20l jerrycan of 98ron in the boot. It got used quite a few times...... But all arguments aside. HSV are making a LPG car. It will sell or it will not, the market will determine whether LPG is a good or bad product. I am sure that there are just as many "enthusiasts" who could gave a million truly passionate reasons why a F6X or a Coupe4 or a SV6000 or a XUV or a Force 6/8 etc etc etc was going to be a huge success because the market was SCREAMING for it........ Last edited by flappist; 27-12-2009 at 09:27 PM. |
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#30 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,332
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Quote:
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