Calls For Further Speed Limit Reductions.

[vztrt]

Seems that lowering our suburban limit to 50 had an increase on pedestrian deaths. So now they're saying to do it again and by 20km/h. But not only residential streets but 80k/h zones as well.

Time to get back into riding bikes boys and girls.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/pe...21.html?page=1

Pedestrian deaths drive push for speed-limit cuts

Reid Sexton
January 11, 2009

A RISE in pedestrian deaths has sparked calls for speed limits in built-up areas to be lowered by 20 km/h, a move a leading international road-safety expert says could help cut the Victorian road toll by 30 per cent.

The calls follow a year in which 59 pedestrians died on Victorian roads — a jump of more than 40 per cent from 2007 despite the state recording its overall lowest road toll on record.

But any gains from last year are being overshadowed by a deadly start to 2009, with 15 fatalities making it the worst start to the year since 1997.

VicRoads says it is not considering blanket reductions of urban speed limits, but this reluctance to bring them in line with many European countries is putting Victoria's international reputation as a road-safety pioneer in jeopardy, according to Sweden's director of road safety, Claes Tingvall.

Victoria was the first jurisdiction in the world to introduce mandatory seat belts and random breath-testing, but Professor Tingvall, who spent nearly three years in Melbourne as director of the Monash University Accident Research Centre, said the state urgently needed to rethink speed limits.

Since introducing its Vision Zero policy in 1997, Sweden has reduced speed limits on local roads to 30 km/h. It is now cutting its 50 km/h limit on arterial roads to 40 km/h.

The move has resulted in Sweden's road toll dropping by almost 25 per cent to about 4.4 deaths per 100,000 people last year, compared with Victoria's 2008 toll of 304, or 5.7 per 100,000.

Professor Tingvall said it was expected Sweden's toll would continue to drop and if Victoria implemented similar reductions, along with building infrastructure such as roundabouts and raised platforms on arterial roads, it could cut the road toll by a third.

"Given Victoria's past performance in (road safety), there's no doubt you could reach 200 by doing this," he said. "(But) we get horrified when we see your speed-limit philosophy … In some respects, Victoria is the leading jurisdiction in the world, but if you go to urban design and urban safety relating to infrastructure and speed limits, it's definitely not in the lead. It's very much behind."

His comments follow revelations that the surge in pedestrian deaths has prompted the Monash University Accident Research Centre to undertake a three-year investigation to enable it to put forward recommendations for reducing Victoria's pedestrian toll to 10 a year.

Bruce Corben, of the centre, backed Professor Tingvall's call but said 10 km/h reductions may be a more realistic starting point. Dr Corben said pedestrians were four times more likely to be killed if struck by a driver travelling at 50 km/h than at 40 km/h, but most Victorian roads are set at 50 km/h and 60 km/h because optimal impact speeds have not been taken into account.

Dr Corben pointed to Holland, where the road toll has fallen by more than 30 per cent since it adopted Sweden's approach in the late 1990s, as another example of how effective a small speed reduction can be.

He said the Government should not fear a public backlash, as the introductions of compulsory seat belts and random breath-testing faced community opposition at the time but their benefits led to an eventual acceptance by motorists.

"'In Europe we have seen this huge shift in thinking and we need that here."

But the suggestion has been rejected by the RACV, which says drivers would ignore any further speed reductions.

"Those limits won't be seen by the community as reasonable and therefore won't be complied with," said spokesman Brian Negus.

Melbourne University health expert Rob Moodie said a reduction in speed limits would lead to more people taking up walking and cycling.

A VicRoads spokesman said the agency continued to target areas with high pedestrian activity by further reducing speed there. He said 80 per cent of Victorians supported 50 km/h limits in built-up areas.

How fast is too fast?
Urban speed limits where pedestrians and traffic mix (in km/h)

Local road Arterial roadSweden 30 40-50


30 50

Holland

50 60-80

Victoria

40-50 50-80

Canada

40 56-88

California

[4Vman]

Ban freakin pedestrians, they're the ones walking in front of cars....

For pedestrian fatalities id like to know who was at fault? and if it was the car, how fast were they traveling relative to the posted limit.

dumb pedestrians will do stupid things....

[mrbaxr6t]

Lowering the speed limits increases pedestrian confidence and they assume that they are less likely to be hit, and hence behave even more stupidly this does not surprise me in the slightest, here's an idea teach pedestrians NOT to play chicken with cars on our roads.

[Daymoe]

Maybe less people would die if they stayed on the footpath and stopped jaywalking, actually crossed when there is a green man, stopped walking out from inbetween parked cars etc.

[[Tonko]]

blame the stupid pedestrians!
I nearly hit an emo couple today just wandering between parked cars and out in front of me.
And like i told them "next time i wont miss"

[RG]

How about bring back the old ads and teaching from back when I was a kid. "Look right, look left, look right again" was drilled into us and it's something that even now I still do.

[AUIIForte]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The calls follow a year in which 59 pedestrians died on Victorian roads — a jump of more than 40 per cent from 2007 despite the state recording its overall lowest road toll on record.

All that says to me is that because of all the strict rules/regulations and all those cameras hanging up in Victoria, people are only focused on their speedo and the car in front of them and don't have enough time to watch for pedestrians.

Anybody else think the same?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

All that says to me is that because of all the strict rules/regulations and all those cameras hanging up in Victoria, people are only focused on their speedo and the car in front of them and don't have enough time to watch for pedestrians.

Anybody else think the same?

Oh please.........

Do you ever check your mirrors, gauges, adjust your stereo, look at the clock, things around you, survey the road around you, look at passengers, BLINK, etc......?
Maintaining your speed has always been a requirement of driving...
Anyone who can't perform this most basic fundamental driving function without becoming a distracted death risk on the road should hand their license in now...

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Oh please.........

Do you ever check your mirrors, gauges, adjust your stereo, look at the clock, things around you, survey the road around you, look at passengers, BLINK, etc......?
Maintaining your speed has always been a requirement of driving...
Anyone who can't perform this most basic fundamental driving function without becoming a distracted death risk on the road should hand their license in now...

Last time I brought up that some pencil pusher had the idea of 30km/h speed limits, it was pretty much dismissed... well, now the calls are getting louder. And given the current political environment, it may well happen.

And 4Vman... yes, maintaining speed has always been a requirement of driving, the difference now?
1. Historically, it's been pretty much a 'go with the flow' - sure, you may be 5-10% over the speed limit, but it wasn't a big deal. The boys and girls in blue generally wouldn't ping you, unless you were being stupid. Now we have the silent sentinels, set to stupidly low tolerances.
1. "ZOMG SPEED KILLS!" has been drummed into everyone's mind... you and I and others may be able to maintain speed within a tight tolerance without staring at the speedo, but many clearly cannot.

Combine #1 & #2 and the driving environment has changed - for the worse, imho.

The logic is flawed, and yet they keep persisting... we've lowered speed limits, yet the toll has risen - well then, the obviously conclusion - we need to lower the limits more! :

[AUIIForte]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Oh please.........

Do you ever check your mirrors, gauges, adjust your stereo, look at the clock, things around you, survey the road around you, look at passengers, BLINK, etc......?
Maintaining your speed has always been a requirement of driving...
Anyone who can't perform this most basic fundamental driving function without becoming a distracted death risk on the road should hand their license in now...

You're stretching it a bit far there. From what I have heard, in Vic, even just a couple of K's over the limit, and the cameras will book you. And for those people who don't have cruise control, don't know the area well or are changing from different speeds (ie from 50km/h to an 80km/h road), they will most definitely be paying more attention to their speedo than anything you mentioned above.

Here in Canberra, I'm very happy with the way our roads are going. I basically don't even have to look at my speedo when I drive. Maybe one little glance and that's it. But its far more tight in Vic and understandable that one would pay more attention to their speedo.

And if a police officer pulled me over for running over a person, there would be a very strong chance that the pedestrian was in fault, so I would need no excuse.

[bigdude1011]

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

Here in Canberra, I'm very happy with the way our roads are going.

That's because we know the alternative. Walking to work takes half the time to catch the bus there, going through every side road of a suburb that doesn't exist. : Though it is good, there is no traffic on any street, pity the education and healthcare systems are much inferior

[Rob's 76 Effy]

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

All that says to me is that because of all the strict rules/regulations and all those cameras hanging up in Victoria, people are only focused on their speedo and the car in front of them and don't have enough time to watch for pedestrians.

Anybody else think the same?

What a load of crap, if your more focused on looking at your speedo and not watching on whats going on around you you shouldn't be on the road, this line of answering with more ppl are watching there speedo's is getting a bit thin now , if you run someone over or have and accident will that be your excuse to the coppers i was watching my speedo

[galaxy xr8]

I'd like to know the statistic's on these so called pedestrain death's, and just how many of them are alcohol releated ????.

[snappy]

well ill say this i most certainly pay more attension to my speedo than i used to.

I would think the responsibility is on the pedestrians for this unless there being hit at crossings anyway.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by snappy84

well ill say this i most certainly pay more attension to my speedo than i used to.

Can i suggest that's because you weren't paying an appropriate amount of attention to it before... ??!!

[snappy]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Can i suggest that's because you weren't paying an appropriate amount of attention to it before... ??!!

Possible ,but possibly not . Never hit anyone impossible to know if i ever was.
I used to speed a far bit on p plates but as i get older ive become more sensible . Im not afraid of speeding but i am of being fined i only drive at a limit of what is safe anyway even if that meant doing 30kph in a hundred zone .

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out if you double the amount of times you glance at your speedo . You have doubled the amount of times you taken your eyes of the road. I am not saying remove all revenue raisers but for a driver that did not speed anyway it has made me less aware of my surroundings.


I will agree with you that school zones ,shopping centres would not hurt

[The G6ET Spot]

:

It's about time that pedestrians were made to take responsibility for crossing roads.

It's not rocket science that it is easier to stop walking than it is to stop a car.

How they can make that pedestrians have right of way on a road that was built for cars is beyond me.

I have had the misfortune of hitting a pedestrian not once but on 2 occasions and on both occasions the pedestrian was at fault.

The first time I had just turned a corner and he walked straight off the gutter in front of me, I was only doing 20-25k's so he was lucky. But the mitogating thing against him was that he had been drinking and was walking around with a beer when the accident occured.

The second time was at 3.30am on the M4 freeway at homebush and he tried to run across the freeway, he just came out of the bushes like a rabbit, but not as fast. I was driving a truck at the time so there is no need to eleberate on the outcome. But he had a blood alcohol reading of .275 so he didn't even have a clue what he was doing I'd say.

So on the first occasion my speed was under what they are suggesting then on the second time even if I was doing 20k's slower it wouldn't have made a difference anyhow.

So when Harrold Scruby and all his other deadbeat friends start carrying on about lowering speed limits on roads because of pedestrians it really gets my back up. I wish they would just wake up and remember what the roads were originally built for CARS.

I don't have a problem with the school zones especially primary school as you just never know what a young child is going to do.

We do have to share with pedestrians I know, but for crying out loud make them more responsible.

Sorry about the rant, but i just get so infuriated with the clowns

:

[Maggot]

THe problem is people doing 70 in a 50 zone.. we might as well have poeple doing 50 in a 30.

If anyone actually stuck to 50 in 50 zones.. there would be almost no pedestrian deaths in those areas.. other than drunk pedestians that is.

I wonder if progressively quieter cars has any effect??

[ltd_on20s]

the unfortunate thing with pollies is that they appeal to the lowest common denominator. scruby gets airtime? hell give him what he wants and he will go away thats their logic. keeps them in a job and the heat off their backs. a motoring enthusiast NEEDS to be elected as an independant to get in their face. its a lot harder for them to get one of their own to shut up then it is someone like scruby and co. and where the hell do these "experts" on road saftey come from? sweden is nothing like Australia. a couple of hours drive and your over the border there driving how you feel.

as for the stats re deaths in the NT going up over the past few years, the silence from pollies should prove to you that THEY DO NOT CARE wether you live or die.the only time they care is when a parent or a "expert" pipes up, and a kneejerk reaction takes places to tighten the screws. if they did care one would come out and say "this isnt working". and why should they say anything of the sort when its a nice little cash cow for them. the amount the country makes from fines far exceeds what they hand out in either bodily injuries or back into roads and road saftey

the funny thing is, the motorist is the single largest voting block in the country. it wouldnt be that hard for someone savvvy to put his hand up and hop onto all the forums and get the majority to vote him in as an independant AT FEDERAL LEVEL. forget state because you cant comment on eg the NT when you live in SA. Federal you can fire up as much as you like.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

the funny thing is, the motorist is the single largest voting block in the country. it wouldnt be that hard for someone savvvy to put his hand up and hop onto all the forums and get the majority to vote him in as an independant AT FEDERAL LEVEL. forget state because you cant comment on eg the NT when you live in SA. Federal you can fire up as much as you like.

You would need one person from every state to do this.

[yanknbank]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

the funny thing is, the motorist is the single largest voting block in the countryas you like.

Correct. Next time you hear of some idiotic piece of legislation being formulated by the government, ring you're local member, especially if you happen to live in a marginal seat and suggest to him (or her) that if he even thinks about sticking up his hand in the chamber and supporting it he can stick your vote where the sun never shines. It's about the only thing they understand enough to get them to take some sort of action.
As an example, you only have to look at how quickly the Federal government acted when the population at large rebelled about petrol pricing.

[bennyk351]

As to speed limits in NT outback Jack summed it up nothing changed by changing the speed limit it only got worse Maybe try to educate the aborigenies to stop their activities, they would at least half the deaths in the NT,maybe im right , :sm_headba :sm_headba :sm_headba maybe not

[Steve]

Whilst I think that even 50 is too fast for some streets, I think the majority of the blame rests with the pedestrians. Pedestrian education is the key. Whilst not wanting to turn this into a racial slur, I too grew up with the "look right, look left, look right again" campaign on tv and learnt to respect traffic and understand the effect a moving car can have on me. The area I work in has a VERY high migrant population, probably less than 5 yrs in the country, and they seem to have virtually no regard to road rules. We get people crossing wherever they want, walk in the gutter of a dual lane road and stand in the middle of a busy road amongst other things. We've had two pedestrian deaths in twelve months within 50 metres of a crossing.
FFS, educate people, spend as much money on that as you do on "wipe off 5" campaigns and the results will follow.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by Steve

Whilst I think that even 50 is too fast for some streets, I think the majority of the blame rests with the pedestrians. Pedestrian education is the key. Whilst not wanting to turn this into a racial slur, I too grew up with the "look right, look left, look right again" campaign on tv and learnt to respect traffic and understand the effect a moving car can have on me. The area I work in has a VERY high migrant population, probably less than 5 yrs in the country, and they seem to have virtually no regard to road rules. We get people crossing wherever they want, walk in the gutter of a dual lane road and stand in the middle of a busy road amongst other things. We've had two pedestrian deaths in twelve months within 50 metres of a crossing.
FFS, educate people, spend as much money on that as you do on "wipe off 5" campaigns and the results will follow.

sorry mate. too hard for current govt's. much easier to make money from people going 4k/hr over the speed limit

maybe if they put some cops on the street for a week and fined everyong for jay walking(i think the rule for jaywalking is not using the crosswalk when within 20 meters of a crossing) pedestrians would start to think. but why fine someone 25$ when you can fine them $120?

again this comes to personal responsibility. plus when ped's start to know cars are going even slower they will start to take even more risks.

[GS608]

If you get hit by a car because you were jaywalking or just being a general idiot then back luck, you deserve to be hit, they'd think twice about walking out in the middle of the road then.

lowering the speed limit will just make more drivers ****ed off, and they'll drive accordingly, i.e very aggressively

bloody pathetic

[brenx]

We all may aswell go out and buy push bikes as well get around faster than the signed vehicle speed limits allow. rofl. If the deaths have increased it means to me that the limit should be put back up to 60. Least pedestrians will proceed cautiously.

I drive a HR truck around doing curbside pickups in residential streets. The amount of pedestrians that walk out in front of the truck is surprising. A big white/yellow or blue truck thats 20+ tonnes can't really be that hard to see can it? Then on the flip side is the amount of people that walk or drive behind the truck when its reversing, reverse lights are on, the beeper is on (it's loud and annoying). If it wasn't for the camera and mirrors they'd be dead or seriously injured. I can understand walking out when the trucks stopped but while the trucks moving toward them is just plain stupid.

[Rob's 76 Effy]

The responsibility is also with you not just the pedestrians,. they still have the right to be able to cross a road without fear of being run down, now before everone starts saying they should be using a pedestrian crossing, there not always around and every street corner doesn't have a set of lights with the little green man as has been mentioned, the only real thing that bothers me with pedstrians is with ppl pushing out prams between cars first, putting there kids at risk before themselves, but with saying that i always underspeed in area's with shops and schools

[TUF_302]

The road is for cars!, why cant people understand that if your on the road there is a big chance of a car hitting you!, i really hope they dont make the limits any lower!

[Falcon Coupe]

They may as well cut it to zero and make us walk :togo:
It's time pedestrians took responsibility for their actions.

Bring back Hector the Cat to teach fools how to cross the road, looking at my street (some) parents are not up to the job.

[Rob's 76 Effy]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

They may as well cut it to zero and make us walk :togo:
It's time pedestrians took responsibility for their actions.

Bring back Hector the Cat to teach fools how to cross the road, looking at my street (some) parents are not up to the job.

Well if there not up to the job drive accordinly, i cant see why it's so hard if you see ppl standing at the side of the road that they just might step out so slowing down a bit, oh thats right it then puts you into the pll driving under the limit class