all modified car owners.......tell me what u think

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 09:37 PM

howdy peoples,
i have a problem people and its been bugging me for some time now. I dont know wether this is the best area on this website to put this on but hey everyone will have a read...(maybe one of the moderates will move it and put a sticky on it??)

motoring enthusiasts(hoons as perceived by media and ignorant pr*cks) have a bad image problem. media, public and polictians love to beat up on us. yet we pay a huge amount on vehicles. everything from finance, cpt, rego, petrol, tyres etc etc. yet we have no one to come out and state "not this is not right" or a lobby group that really protects our interests. no one is out there willing to put a defamation case into the courts against police, pollie or some idiot like Harold Scruby(the president of the pedestrian council of australia) who likes to get on TV and bleat every time someone goes over the speed limit by 2k/ph

heres just a couple of articles of that fantastic website News.com
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/com...45-2761,00.html

now some of these comments border on total control and dictatorship of what we like doing with OUR Money

what i was thinking is starting up a website (something along the lines of Road users group of australia, otr if u guys can think of something) and inviting all people who use forums(not just thine one, but full boost, commodore ones etc to log on and start a group that actually has a voice.

i think one of the reasons we dont get looked after is the fact we are not as organised as these other groups eg. Pedestrian coucil of australia.

let me know what u guys think. any ideas, comments, emails would be greatly appreciated

cheers
Talal

Daymoe · 28-10-2008, 09:43 PM

Link doesn't work mate.

**Burnout** · 28-10-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Link doesn't work mate.

True, an inauspicious start to an otherwise popular thread.....................

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 10:02 PM

lol my apologies. i have found it again
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/stor...5-2761,00.html

there was like 500+ responses to this article....

**Falcon Coupe** · 28-10-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

lol my apologies. i have found it again
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/stor...5-2761,00.html

there was like 500+ responses to this article....

The article concentrates on P plate drivers not modified car owners as a whole.

Why do P platers see these issues as a personal attack, it's only for a few years whilst still learning not a lifetime.

Auslandau · 28-10-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

The article concentrates on P plate drivers not modified car owners as a whole.

Why do P platers see these issues as a personal attack, it's only for a few years whilst still learning not a lifetime.

I agree with that ..... but I read it as:
P platers that drive V8's, or modified cars are ALL hoons and need them confiscated and sold!

Its the flow on that effects many that's starting to really get to me. Those who drives modified, loud, cars that are being branded as hoons. If you drive a V8, you must be a hoon. Why else would you drive one! Its a perseption that is being pushed hard at them moment ..... and is very one sided. Sometimes I'll give it a squirt but most of the time I really do behave impeccably

Boy I hate that word 'Hoon'. Its getting thrown around way too much at the moment

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Daymoe · 28-10-2008, 10:09 PM

Interesting article, i wouldn't class "High powered cars" as V8s though.

Jack91 · 28-10-2008, 10:09 PM

So you mean a website/group of people defending P platers and people with loud cars? Probably wouldnt work, as the only members would be us P platers.

edit: I misunderstood what you said, but it probably still wouldnt work. If you had both sorts of people on there (ie - bored soccer mums in prado's that do 40 in 60 zones and then 18 year olds in rice that sit on the speed limit or just over) it would be a constant fight.

Nikked · 28-10-2008, 10:10 PM

I do agree that there is harsh treatment against modified car owners. thats all i have to say.

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 10:23 PM

i think some are missing the point, im only using this article as a response tool. its not a lobby group for p platers. its a lobby group for drivers as a whole , specifically aimed at the performance car culture. every few weeks there is an article on "hoons" , "dangerous drivers" "drivers flouting safety laws" etc etc and every time one of these comes out theres a pic of some car doing a burnout. when really was the last time you guys saw a pollie come out and look after your interests? we pay thru the a**hole for the privelige of driving on roads. we all know a decent exhaust is actually better for te enviroment as a free breathing car actually has less emissions. we all know a slightly lowered car doesnt mean you are going to crash into a bus stop as soon as the key is in the ignition. why should we always all be tarred with the same brush for the effects of the few? milton orkpolous was a pollie who was a pedo. if we ran around calling all pollies pedo how qquick would we be put thru the courts for defamation? before you guys say that an extreme example, yes it is, buts its only an example

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 10:25 PM

whoops edit* you guys alrady made the distinction, delete my first line and go with the rest... racv does nothing for us. raa does nothing etc etc. if harold scruby can have a voice and he doesnt knwo what he is talking about half the time, why cant we?

svo347 · 29-10-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

etc etc. if harold scruby can have a voice and he doesnt knwo what he is talking about half the time, why cant we?

Why not just ask him... AFAIK he is a member here. KeepLeft if memory serves me right

Keepleft · 30-10-2008, 04:18 AM

Quote:

ltd_on20s wrote:- if harold scruby can have a voice and he doesnt know what he is talking about half the time, why cant we?

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo347

Why not just ask him... AFAIK he is a member here. KeepLeft if memory serves me right

I am not Harold Scruby because;
1. I was not on a crusade to ban 4WD bull bars outright, nor
2. did I seek to ban or restrict 4WD's from CBD's, or
3. attempt change of the national flag via AUSFLAG, and
4. defended NT's use of speed derestriction signs on its rural highways:-)

(I would also overturn in NSW the radar & laser device prohibition, restrict certain crush and confiscate regulation, eliminate certain category 'exceed speed-limit fines' in favour of $10 fines for using too much fuel, etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

not just that, but i think uniform road rules/ and uniform driver training across australia would also have a good effect on stats.

Note:
a) Australian Road Rules. The 'national harmonisation' of road rules* in serious effort, was kicked off by Keating back in 1993, with the first edition ARR's contracted by the states December 1, 1999. Also required owing our ongoing contract with the UN Convention on Road Traffic.

b) Development of the Graduated Licensing Systems by the states and territories, each with very familiar 'likeness and requirement' as that derived from NSW, and is now developing nationally by actions undertaken in Canberra December 15, 2004 at the "The National Driver Training Scheme" launch.

* Speed-limit maximums remain a matter for each state and territory, though some academics like to attempt restriction of this. Speed signage used, must of course, be uniform.

Jack91 · 28-10-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

i think some are missing the point, im only using this article as a response tool. its not a lobby group for p platers. its a lobby group for drivers as a whole , specifically aimed at the performance car culture. every few weeks there is an article on "hoons" , "dangerous drivers" "drivers flouting safety laws" etc etc and every time one of these comes out theres a pic of some car doing a burnout. when really was the last time you guys saw a pollie come out and look after your interests? we pay thru the a**hole for the privelige of driving on roads. we all know a decent exhaust is actually better for te enviroment as a free breathing car actually has less emissions. we all know a slightly lowered car doesnt mean you are going to crash into a bus stop as soon as the key is in the ignition. why should we always all be tarred with the same brush for the effects of the few? milton orkpolous was a pollie who was a pedo. if we ran around calling all pollies pedo how qquick would we be put thru the courts for defamation? before you guys say that an extreme example, yes it is, buts its only an example

Yeah, we all know its stupid, but it aint gonna change.

Bad Bird · 29-10-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

But i would question why a p plater would need/have a v8 .

Why does anyone need a V8?

prydey · 29-10-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

Why does anyone need a V8?

why does anyone need more than 4 bedrooms in a house? why does anyone need a 6 burner bbq? why does anyone need....

seriously, what sort of question is that. its personal choice and the day people stop being allowed to make their own choices seems to be coming with increasing speed.

i could drive around in a bf xt and not be judged but if i had an e series v8 all of a sudden i would be viewed differently. the facts remain as far as car performance goes, the bf has more power and torque and is quicker all round.

i drive a modified v8 and as auslandau has said, it really does start to get frustrating when we all get tarred with the same brush.

RG · 29-10-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

Why does anyone need a V8?

Because I want one, I paid for one and I choose to have one.

Why doesn't EVERYONE need a V8 is the question.

manxman · 29-10-2008, 09:32 AM

I do remember my early driving & riding. I couldn't afford to hoon around, as I had to do my own repairs, and pay for my own rare parts. I learned to drive moderately, and avoid that which would cost me time or money I wanted to spend elsewhere. Perhaps young people are relatively richer now than than I was then, but self denial is not often taught in society these days, and young peoples brains are still forming whilst they get their first license.

I don't mind modified cars-on the track-not the road. Public roads are not racetracks, and must not be treated like them. It's too risky, and the ambos/fireys are too often too far away to help out in time. Just because one person can control a vehicle at high speed, doesn't mean any others can too, and pedestrians have rights and needs. All drivers MUST know that 'the unexpected' is a frequent & normal occurrence, and drive accordingly.

It's your money, as you say, & you are free to spend it as you please. You are to drive within the laws of the land, which are made for the common good. You are also free to campain for change to the law. We do live in a democracy!

I spend some of my cash on a dirt bike, and then I travel to an approved recreational area to ride it. I could zip it around the roads quite easily, but I don't, I go to the appropriate place to run my sports machine. I accept the extra cost of transporting it to & from, and I am pro-active by having good communications access whilst there, and I NEVER go alone. Even so, I do not abandon all restraints when there, because it's a shared area with inexperienced/careless minors, and there are blind corners, trees, rocks and treacherous surfaces-making caution necessary. It's not a racetrack either, and tho' several other ride as if it is, I choose not to. We've had several fatalities there over recent years, people riding too hard, or too carelessly. Many of them ride very selfishly, raising dust without regard for others, esp the quad riders & 4WD's-who often rip up the access roads (with their doughnuts) and turn everything into corrugations and irrepairable dust bowls.

Auslandau · 29-10-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxman

I don't mind modified cars-on the track ... not the road. Public roads are not racetracks, &

quad riders & 4WD's-who often rip up the access roads (with their doughnuts) and turn everything into corrugations and irrepairable dust bowls.

This is part of the problem ...... total prejudice.

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ltd_on20s · 29-10-2008, 11:25 PM

i think whee the govt goes downhill is they pander to any opinion group that has a voice simply cause it brings in votes. to be honest. this might sound harsh but the govt as a whole doesnt give a rats about wether u live or die at the moment. its all about cash. they pay lip service to it cause the cops and ambos a sick of picking bits of kids up off the road, otherwise the radars would be in black spots, camera would be in intersections known to have big accidents. and the govt would be coming up with a "carrots and sticks approach to driving" eg "no fines for a year? great heres an extra demerit point" or something to entice people to look out. yes there is always that minority but again it comes back to why should we get punished as a whole for the actions of few?

azaxr8 · 29-10-2008, 09:27 AM

I am a P plater driving a ba xr8. Had it for just under 12 months now. I'm still alive. Go figure?

manxman · 29-10-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azaxr8

I am a P plater driving a ba xr8. Had it for just under 12 months now. I'm still alive. Go figure?

Rules are both proven and disproven by the exceptions. You may have been fortunate, or you may have been wise, but arrogance will get you no-where. Unfortunately, the accident statistics force certain conclusions-and whilst there are individual exceptions, licensing authorities are not reliable fortune tellers, and they have to take precautions according to the perceived risk to the general population. I believe that P platers MUST be restricted in KW, cylinders and GVM, and also passenger types and numbers 4 Cars & m/cycles. Actually, I believe in progressively punative intelligent speed limiters, which will allow a limited blast over 110kph, then hold you at, say, 105 for a while, and the more you ride the governor, the longer & lower the permitted max speed. The insurance companies should be demanding such to be fitted and working to qualify for payout. The technology is already available, and cheap!

ltd_on20s · 29-10-2008, 11:22 AM

Loving some of the responses here. should driver training be incorperated into getting your license? skidpan?night driving? evasive action training? is it worth us having a voice?

Spudz27 · 01-12-2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

Loving some of the responses here. should driver training be incorperated into getting your license? skidpan?night driving? evasive action training? is it worth us having a voice?

All that does is make them think "hey I am ****ing awesome at car control" so they go out and kill themselves/others. They need to be sat down and taught safe driving practices and see the impact/consequences that occur from not driving safely. Make them watch a video on how a car with certain safety stars holds up in a crash and then tell them to check their cars rating.

Oh I am biased as my driver training was taught this way. No skids, no evasive manouvers. Just how to be a safe driver and the consequences of not, also how to spot danger and avoid it etc etc. We did a bit of driving but again it was safety over control. In the end we should NEVEr be in a situation where we lose control and so why do we need to train for it?

Franco Cozzo · 01-12-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

All that does is make them think "hey I am ****ing awesome at car control" so they go out and kill themselves/others. They need to be sat down and taught safe driving practices and see the impact/consequences that occur from not driving safely. Make them watch a video on how a car with certain safety stars holds up in a crash and then tell them to check their cars rating.

We had the police come to our school to address us on driving safely, only 75 out of the 200 people in the year level showed up, then the police just talked about how speed cameras save lives and how effective the new P plate laws are.

Show us some graphic images from crashes, show funerals, show "the knock". You need to scare the crap out of people.

MO · 01-12-2009, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

All that does is make them think "hey I am ****ing awesome at car control" so they go out and kill themselves/others. They need to be sat down and taught safe driving practices and see the impact/consequences that occur from not driving safely. Make them watch a video on how a car with certain safety stars holds up in a crash and then tell them to check their cars rating.

Oh I am biased as my driver training was taught this way. No skids, no evasive manouvers. Just how to be a safe driver and the consequences of not, also how to spot danger and avoid it etc etc. We did a bit of driving but again it was safety over control. In the end we should NEVEr be in a situation where we lose control and so why do we need to train for it?

That is crap,first sentence,first para. You must combine all aspects of driver training. So all you were taught to do was steer a car not drive it.

4Vman · 29-10-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxman

Rules are both proven and disproven by the exceptions. You may have been fortunate, or you may have been wise, but arrogance will get you no-where. Unfortunately, the accident statistics force certain conclusions-and whilst there are individual exceptions, licensing authorities are not reliable fortune tellers, and they have to take precautions according to the perceived risk to the general population. I believe that P platers MUST be restricted in KW, cylinders and GVM, and also passenger types and numbers 4 Cars & m/cycles. Actually, I believe in progressively punative intelligent speed limiters, which will allow a limited blast over 110kph, then hold you at, say, 105 for a while, and the more you ride the governor, the longer & lower the permitted max speed. The insurance companies should be demanding such to be fitted and working to qualify for payout. The technology is already available, and cheap!

Well said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

Loving some of the responses here. should driver training be incorperated into getting your license? skidpan?night driving? evasive action training? is it worth us having a voice?

Driver training is already part of getting your license...
Its fine to have a voice, but for that voice to carry value or worth its will "sound louder" with many years of experience behind it...

Plugg3r · 29-10-2008, 11:37 AM

It's BS..

I'm 18 and own a XR6 Turbo utility.
Now i haven't crashed in 3 yrs of driving, nor have been close to.
Sure I get the urges to give her a tromping and watch the old speedo go of tits.
But even my 45yr old father does that :P

Stupid politicians and there small minds!

Now the P Plate crash statistics, what do they state for 4cyl, 6cyl and 8cyl..
I'd dare dare 4cyl will probably be the highest.

Glad im of my P's now.. Good old NT!

4Vman · 29-10-2008, 11:45 AM

Got to love the theory that because a few people can manage to drive safely or avoid issue with it then the rest must automatically be ok with it and mature/experienced enough too....

Oh, wouldnt it also stand to reason that statistically the incident of P platers having accidents in V8's and high powered cars is low because they're not legally allowed to drive them in the first place??!!

ltd_on20s · 29-10-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Got to love the theory that because a few people can manage to drive safely or avoid issue with it then the rest must automatically be ok with it and mature/experienced enough too....

Oh, wouldnt it also stand to reason that statistically the incident of P platers having accidents in V8's and high powered cars is low because they're not legally allowed to drive them in the first place??!!

only in some states are they not allowed to drive v8's, SA you still can.
look we all know that v8's can be dangerous and maybe not the best thing in the hands of "inexpreienced drivers", but a decent cam/lifters/5sped gearbox and a set of 3.9s can make any car launch pretty hard.
"isnt everyone "inexperienced" when the first drive a v8? should buying a v8 come with compulsory 20 hour defensive training above what we already have??