Should Ford bring back the single-piece body ute?

[Brazen]

What we often forget when we look at the monthly sales for Falcon and Commodore is the effect of the ute sales.

Holden sell around 800 utes a month which are mostly sporty private sales. With the current ute almost 7 years old, we could easily see sales once again go over 1000 units a month once VF is released.

Ford with a cab chassis ute should be the darling of the workhorse market, but with the lack of diesel and ground clearance Ford are more focusing on Ranger for those tool of trade purchases.

Could Ford bring back the traditonal monocoque Falcon ute body and chase sporty private sales and leave Ranger for the rest of the market? A one piece body may just be what Falcon ute needs to justify the return of the XR8 as well as justify the existence of RWD.


Traditional ute body

[Nikked]

No.


Having a one piece body just for a sporty or XR8 verison would be a waste of development money.

[Kryton]

People arent buying VE utes because they are one piece, they are buying them because they have Holden written on them - something Ford will never have no matter what it does.

[FPV GTHO]

You couldn't do both cab chassis and coupe ute on current sales, so the only logical alternative would be to do only the coupe ute body style. Who's to say the likely sales from that model alone could justify development costs, of which would be significant given they would likely drop the hybrid frame they've used since '99 and with it the leaf sprung live axle.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Kryton

People arent buying VE utes because they are one piece, they are buying them because they have Holden written on them - something Ford will never have no matter what it does.

Ford up until a few years ago used to thrash Commodore ute sales. Tradies and fleets have moved to diesel and Ford don't offer anything people want for those that are remaining in the sporty ute market.

[Jeddak]

Originally Posted by Kryton

People arent buying VE utes because they are one piece, they are buying them because they have Holden written on them - something Ford will never have no matter what it does.

strange but true it seems...

as to Brazen's comment as to Ford getting trashed in the market
there was a time in the early 70's when the Valiant ute was the top dog, but was canned by the Holden with the HQ (chassis equipped)

and why do people keep buying Toyota {anything** when there are better alternatives available??

the name says it all....

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Jeddak

strange but true it seems...

as to Brazen's comment as to Ford getting trashed in the market
there was a time in the early 70's when the Valiant ute was the top dog, but was canned by the Holden with the HQ (chassis equipped)

and why do people keep buying Toyota {anything** when there are better alternatives available??

the name says it all....

I think alot of people see toyota as the most reliable car maker out there. I debate that claim at times but have seen quite a few toyotas that are near bullet proof. thou in saying that i have heard that the new hiluxs arent too flash?? I dont know as i've never driven the newer ones. might be some truth in it??

[robbyj]

I use to think some holden utes looked better because the single body, til i could open my eyes a bit more

[GhiaEB]

Ford need a v8 ute! Not everybody wants a turbo 6 or an FPV as a workhorse.

[jpd80]

There's no money and no Business plan justification to make expensive changes to a vehicle running at 500 sales a month.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There's no money and no Business plan justification to make expensive changes to a vehicle running at 500 sales a month.

With the LCV market over 90% diesel, I can't see how they justify a cab chassis Falcon. Next Falcon ute I'm betting won't be cab chassis, unless they add diesel.

[pottery beige]

no...

[Ford_The_Win]

Ford shouldn't be bringing anything back. They should be innovating and creating new products (like a smaller Falcon with hatchback option).

[DJM83]

15 years ago yeah. Not now, not in the economic climate. Perhaps someone could photoshop an FG into a coupe/ute like VE?

[supershifty]

I say no. I hear the OP's reasoning, but as Nikked said "it's a waste of development money". I own an Xh ute and I love it, I would love it even more if it had an alloy tray option.

From Fords point of view in manufacturing costs and options the alternative of a styleside or alloy tray is easily accomodated for the end user.

I agree that the monocoque ute body looks better, but it just isn't as practical for a tradies use - isn't that what utes are primarily designed for?

A ute is as close as I'm going to get as far as owning an Aussie two door.

[Falcman0o7]

No....

[Joe5619]

Holden only sell more utes becuase they have a V8.. End of story!!

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Holden only sell more utes becuase they have a V8.. End of story!!

So the ford 6 Ute outsells the Holden 6 Ute does it?

If I wanted a Ute it would be Holden for sure, imho the Holden is a much better looker than the ford. Plus from the back the ford has hardly changed since the au days, except for lights and those awkward flared rear guards.
6 of one half a dozen of the others really. If you want a workhorse buy the ford, if you want a showpony get the Holden.
An ssv manual Ute would make me pretty happy.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Holden only sell more utes becuase they have a V8.. End of story!!

Ford have a V8 ute.

Ford have the fastest V8 ute ever sold in Australia.

Ford also have the fastest 6 cylinder ute, the fastest LPG ute the only car based trayback ute, the only car based 1 tonne ute but unfortunately holden have fans who show their loyalty by spending money on new utes not complaining on the internet.

FG XR8 ute was quicker and more powerful than Holden SS and was the same price yet I would be very surprised if anyone in this thread bought one new.

FPV GS ute is about the same price a SS-V Redline and again none of you have one.

I bought a XR6T ute after driving several SS utes as it was quicker, used less petrol, was more comfortable and as an added bonus had a Ford badge.....

Now on the actual topic of 1 piece body. I believe it is not the 1 piece that is the perceived problem it is the lack of IRS which is the result of designing a chassis that would work for wagon, ute, and 1 tonne ute in all forms which has kept the price down.

Basing a ute on the sedan chassis would be an expensive exercise with doubtful return although basing one on Territory may do better.

One last point, these incredibly well selling V8 utes aren't the ones currently being discounted by up to 30% because no one was buying them are they?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

One last point, these incredibly well selling V8 utes aren't the ones currently being discounted by up to 30% because no one was buying them are they?

The killer blow in a top post.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ford have a V8 ute.

Ford have the fastest V8 ute ever sold in Australia.

Ford also have the fastest 6 cylinder ute, the fastest LPG ute the only car based trayback ute, the only car based 1 tonne ute but unfortunately holden have fans who show their loyalty by spending money on new utes not complaining on the internet.

FG XR8 ute was quicker and more powerful than Holden SS and was the same price yet I would be very surprised if anyone in this thread bought one new.

FPV GS ute is about the same price a SS-V Redline and again none of you have one.

I bought a XR6T ute after driving several SS utes as it was quicker, used less petrol, was more comfortable and as an added bonus had a Ford badge.....

Now on the actual topic of 1 piece body. I believe it is not the 1 piece that is the perceived problem it is the lack of IRS which is the result of designing a chassis that would work for wagon, ute, and 1 tonne ute in all forms which has kept the price down.

Basing a ute on the sedan chassis would be an expensive exercise with doubtful return although basing one on Territory may do better.

One last point, these incredibly well selling V8 utes aren't the ones currently being discounted by up to 30% because no one was buying them are they?

funny that falcon Ute sales dropped 300ish sales per month when the xr8 was stop....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

funny that falcon Ute sales dropped 300ish sales per month when the xr8 was stop....

Pfft, More like 50 a month if you ask me.....
The last year of XR8 Ute was 2010 and only 291 were sold in the whole year even though the car was stopped at June 30.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

funny that falcon Ute sales dropped 300ish sales per month when the xr8 was stop....

Originally Posted by jpd80

Pfft, More like 50 a month if you ask me.....
The last year of XR8 Ute was 2010 and only 291 were sold in the whole year even though the car was stopped at June 30.

Maybe Ford's financial year runs June to May.......

Funny you could still buy new ones a year after they were discontinued.

Well they were being offered for sale at heavily discounted prices anyway.

What colour did you buy Joe? My XRT ute is blue.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by flappist

What colour did you buy Joe? My XRT ute is blue.

I actually bought a Silver FG XR6T sedan.. Just because I didn't buy one, does not mean I can't have an opinion!!

So I got my numbers wrong, shut me!! Something happened around that time as they went from selling around 900 to 1,000 each & every month, straight down to around 500 per month.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ford have a V8 ute.

No - FPV have a V8 ute. Ford don't.

Ford have the fastest V8 ute ever sold in Australia.

See above.

Ford also have the fastest 6 cylinder ute, the fastest LPG ute the only car based trayback ute, the only car based 1 tonne ute but unfortunately holden have fans who show their loyalty by spending money on new utes not complaining on the internet.

And what's the most commonly sold Holden ute? An SS. And what does it have? a V8 engine.

FG XR8 ute was quicker and more powerful than Holden SS and was the same price yet I would be very surprised if anyone in this thread bought one new.

I did.

FPV GS ute is about the same price a SS-V Redline and again none of you have one.

Because the Redline has more features - its more than just a stonker engine. Also cheaper to insure than the FPV.

I bought a XR6T ute

But hang on, you've just told us all how Ford have the best V8 ute. So what's the go?

after driving several SS utes as it was quicker, used less petrol, was more comfortable and as an added bonus had a Ford badge.....

Personal preference. Very few people buying 'performance' utes care about fuel usage.

Now on the actual topic of 1 piece body. I believe it is not the 1 piece that is the perceived problem it is the lack of IRS which is the result of designing a chassis that would work for wagon, ute, and 1 tonne ute in all forms which has kept the price down.

IRS is generally what most people dislike about the Holden utes as they cannot carry as much weight in the back as a leaf spring setup.

One last point, these incredibly well selling V8 utes aren't the ones currently being discounted by up to 30% because no one was buying them are they?

Fairly sure Camrys, Aurions, Kia's, Navaras and about a zillion other models are being heavily discounted at the moment too. But don't let fact get in the way of telling us how we're wrong cos we don't see the world the way you do.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by b2tf

No - FPV have a V8 ute. Ford don't.



See above.



And what's the most commonly sold Holden ute? An SS. And what does it have? a V8 engine.



I did.



Because the Redline has more features - its more than just a stonker engine. Also cheaper to insure than the FPV.



But hang on, you've just told us all how Ford have the best V8 ute. So what's the go?



Personal preference. Very few people buying 'performance' utes care about fuel usage.



IRS is generally what most people dislike about the Holden utes as they cannot carry as much weight in the back as a leaf spring setup.



Fairly sure Camrys, Aurions, Kia's, Navaras and about a zillion other models are being heavily discounted at the moment too. But don't let fact get in the way of telling us how we're wrong cos we don't see the world the way you do.

Well as FPV (Ford Perfromance Vehicles) is 100% Ford owned that is what makes it a Ford.

I bought a XR6T ute because I wanted one and did not want a V8 even if it was the same price.

Now just how many Holden V8 and V6 utes have been sold this year? Obviously you must know to make such a statement.

Or did you just make it up like the previous 300 per month expert opinion......

I do know that Toyota 86s aren't being discounted..........

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well as FPV (Ford Perfromance Vehicles) is 100% Ford owned that is what makes it a Ford.

I bought a XR6T ute because I wanted one and did not want a V8 even if it was the same price.

Now just how many Holden V8 and V6 utes have been sold this year? Obviously you must know to make such a statement.

Or did you just make it up like the previous 300 per month expert opinion......

I do know that Toyota 86s aren't being discounted..........

Well, I actually didn't have the data to prove my point so I gave up!! There is no "Performance sales for 2009" (the last full year of XR8 sales for me to gather enough data to prove my point).

However to answer your other question, Holden sold 3360 V8's utes (not including HSV's) in 2011.


http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1359

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by b2tf

No - FPV have a V8 ute. Ford don't.

Splitting straws a bit aren't we? Everytime I open the door of the GT is says 'Ford Performance Vehicle' Which part isnt Ford? The Harrop S'charger? Should have the offending Non Ford items removed

Reline ...... Have you played with this? I have ..... and after 10 minutes of playing with it I came up with this conclusion.

I would rather scare the crap out of my passengers than bore them with graphs and pretty lights.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Splitting straws a bit aren't we? Everytime I open the door of the GT is says 'Ford Performance Vehicle' Which part isnt Ford? The Harrop S'charger? Should have the offending Non Ford items removed

Reline ...... Have you played with this? I have ..... and after 10 minutes of playing with it I came up with this conclusion.

I would rather scare the crap out of my passengers than bore them with graphs and pretty lights.

Well obviously buyers prefer the option of a Holden or a HSV V8 ute as they sell both, and you see a lot more of them around than the FPV utes. Round here you do anyway.

But ****** what would I know without my effing graphs and numbers.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by b2tf

No - FPV have a V8 ute. Ford don't.

firsty FPV stands for FORD preformance vehicles
secondly FPV is a wholy owned subsidary of which company??? FORD
the base vehicle is made by???? FORD