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#1 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,943
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So apparently if Each-Way Albo (aka "Greens' Sock-Puppet") moves into the big house,
not only will they remove any import duties on EVs, but they also claim they will except them from FBT Quote:
Exempting EVs (including PHEVs) from FBT is just bat-**** crazy For those not fully conversant with FBT rules, making something exempt, means that you can salary sacrifice it all, and pay not one cent of tax. Whilst novated leases have been a common arrangement, for something that is exempt they will be unnecessary. You can simply buy a car on HP, and have your employer make the repayments, tax free. In fact, if you can afford the cashflow hit, you can simply have your employer buy the car for you. As written, their proposal says that every Australian would be able to be paid upto $77k (plus maintenance and running costs) TAX FREE every year. And why stop at one? If you're a doctor, lawyer, or CEO earning $400K+ a year, get your wife and kids EVs also. Oh, and the best bit, since it includes PHEVS, you never have to plug it in, and can also get your PETROL paid for tax free also. And yes, if it wasn't obvious, this will just be another stupid government move, putting more money into the pockets of the rich. Pensioners, casual and part-time employees won't be able to take advantage of this, and maximum benefit will be available to those with the most disposable income. Last edited by Crazy Dazz; 24-03-2022 at 05:28 PM. |
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#2 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,891
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Wonder what the mining companies will buy ?
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,943
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I wonder if this will see a flurry of PHake EVs, as was seen back in the early days, in the USA (especially California IIRC.)
The government, and I think it was the California government first, introduced a requirement that companies sell a certain percentage of ZEVs. This including PHEVs. So car makers basically went to Radio Shack, got some plugs and a soldering iron, and Voila, a Plug-In. (The underlying cars were so-called "1st gen Hybrids" which were barely Hybrids at all.) They then made the cables a prohibitorily expensive option. So that nobody would buy them, because there was actually nowhere to plug them in. (essentially because of the lack of onboard support for external charging, all the controls had to be incorporated into either the cable or the charging station.) |
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#4 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 176
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Not much different from 15-20 years ago when some European countries mandated diesel vehicles for company vehicle purchases on the basis of lower emissions. That didn't turn out too well.....
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,159
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#6 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,116
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#7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,943
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Quote:
Or perhaps more correctly the "out of sight = out of mind" effect. They want everyone to have EVs or at least Hybrids, but they don't want us to mine or smelt the metals necessary to build them. And they don't want nasty factories in Australia, no far better to build filthy unregulated factories in Asia, and then ship everything on filthy great oil-burning ships. ![]() And of course the granddaddy of them all, that those EVs will actually be powered by Brown Coal, the filthiest power source imaginable. |
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,660
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I've got just the song for the government's advertising campaign for this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5kLtdUErxY
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I6 + AWD |
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#9 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Heading thru Hell (Corner)
Posts: 8,225
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Quote:
https://opennem.org.au/energy/nem/?range=1y&interval=1w The only state that uses brown coal as a generation source is Victoria, and then brown coal generation equates for somewhere between 60 and 80% of the state's total generation. I don't think it's factual to claim that, nationally, EVs will be powered by brown coal. In Victoria alone, you can see the impact that solar and wind are having on the generation source profile. Especially rooftop solar.
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Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Quote:
and Coal equates to 75% of Australia Electricity not sure where you got your information.
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#11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,943
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Quote:
In Perth, if you buy an EV, Synergy will give you a special Electricity tariff, to make it cheaper to charge your EV, over night That's right, night-time, when all the peak turbines are offline, and there is only the baseline. And guess where that's coming from... Last edited by Crazy Dazz; 25-03-2022 at 04:14 PM. |
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#12 | |||||||||
Donating Member
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Gee it's hard to interact with some of you guys some times. It's as though you take anything presented with a different view as a personal affront.
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Again, I'm also sure you could follow the link and find out for yourself what the source of data was (did you actually look at the link?). If you follow that link, you'll see the data sources are: Quote:
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And you're not the only one to make similar statements. Now, I appreciate Franco was most likely referring to Vic when he wrote this, but that's not what he actually said. People read this stuff, in the context it is written, and assume it to be true. But it's not. Quote:
My background and interest in brown coal is why I felt I could offer some insight that perhaps others don't have.
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Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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#13 | |||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
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Quote:
Here is a news flash for you. Tasmania is 100% renewable power generation...zero coal. That same power is sent to Victoria 24/7 Electric cars get charged during the day because rooftop solar is producing more than the grid can absorb....in fact new inverters get powered off by utility grids to stop the grid from being swamped by solar panel generation. Go to work..plug in the EV...come back ...EV charged. All during the day....from solar power. Now what else you got?
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,325
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#15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,943
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Quote:
And you're also disingenuously splitting hairs. Whilst it's true that the worst stuff, Brown Coal, is mostly from Latrobe Most other states still burn Thermal Coal, which in some cases may even be worse for Carbon Emissions. Even WA, which most people don't even think has coal, gets most of our baseline power from Coal. |
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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EV supply and sales are really limited at the moment, so I doubt that government legislation will do much other than grab headlines..How and why tax incentives are applied is always a bone of contention but is this any worse than the virtual open gate policy towards diesel crew cab Utes? At some point, there has to be an off ramp for paying taxes on diesel Utes when green EVs offer better choices. Yes Albo’s tax promises sound alarmingly high until you realise that currently, actual amounts of electric vehicles are small, that’s why they’re doing it.
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#17 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,943
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Quote:
And as mentioned, in the USA, a similar lack of distinction, saw just about every manufacturer whack a plug on a Hybrid and call it a PHEV. Keep in mind that many already have such vehicles in their stables, and just don't bother flogging em, but that could all change rapidly. Quote:
The only real problem there is with companies pretending that all dual-cabs meet the limited exemption criteria, and then allowing private use beyond the very limited "to & from work" exemption. Whilst they are dodging FBT, it's still restricted to a relatively small number of employees. Employees salsacing a car, and choosing a dualie, are still captured. What's being proposed here is open slather. Anybody receiving slary or wages will be able to buy an EV, then get their employer to reimburse them out of pre-tax earnings, effectively getting up to $77k (plus running costs) tax free. FMD, if this comes in, and assuming I can beat the rush and the $30k price increase, then even I will go out and get a new PHEV. (Of course, on principle, I'll disable the plug and run it only on petrol.) |
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#18 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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For those playing along at home, the government still requires people to establish actual business percentage usage for passenger vehicles, that aces any concerns about FBT in my books. The opposition (government) offers this knowing its up fro a max of $250 million, so they already know how it will be controlled. |
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#19 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,943
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Quote:
And they'll be a ****-tonne cheaper in real terms, after this is enacted. Quote:
I barely know where to begin with that nonsense. It's got absolutely nothing to do with business use. Anything used for business purposes is, by definition, tax deductible. Doesn't matter whether it's a EV, or an F350 Super Duty. The issue, again by definition of what we're actually talking about (ie FBT) is PRIVATE USE, and specifically in this instance Cars that are Salary Sacrificed for exclusively personal use. I realise you have some giant weed up your **** about dual cabs, and I'm sorry your boss wouldn't let you take the work ute home, but that again is irrelevant. An employer can legally provide you with just about anything as a Fringe Benefit. And anything they do provide as a Fringe Benefit automatically becomes tax deductible. They could pay to have your balls waxed, and it would be tax deductible. The downside is that (after all the formulas are done) they'd pay FBT that effectively works out equivalent to you simply getting the money as salary and paying tax at the top marginal tax rate. There are a few things that are exempt from FBT, and there are some employers (Charities, Churches, PBIs, etc, which also get partial exemptions) but for most people, there is simply isn't much. What Each-Way is proposing, is an exemption for "EVs". Now as I said, this is an election promise, and very short on detail, so I won't be surprised if it doesn't eventuate, or if limits are imposed. But as written, they are proposing to make EVs (including PHEVs) upto the luxury tax limit, exempt from FBT. That means no FBT, so no calculation necessary. Whether they buy an EV and let you drive it home, Or they lease you an EV, Or they just give you one, the effect will be the same. 100% tax deductible to them, and no FBT. That means that whatever the mechanism you can afford, you'd be able to get your employer to pay for your EV out of your pre-tax income. For someone paying the top marginal rate on all that amount, this would almost halve the real cost of the car. |
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#20 | ||
Away on leave
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: ACT
Posts: 1,735
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#21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Quote:
explaining that train of thought regarding current position of many company vehicles vs the changes. OK, let’s try something different, how much fringe benefit do you think gets paid on vehicles now? The answer is sweet FA because of the strategy I mentioned earlier, actual business usage. The first thing accountants tell bosses and their employees is to go run a log book and gather evidence of high business usage/ low private usage that’s potential FBT. So currently, many of those FBT liable vehicles used as company cars are being declared at 90% business usage or more.. Sure there are some that don’t reach those levels but I guarantee that many seek to minimise FBT. My point is that all those currently having FBT liable vehicles will just switch to a complying non-FBT electric and simplify the tax process for themselves and more importantly the tax department as well. And for what it’s worth, I don’t have a stick up my backside about dual cab Utes, the changes were made to save the tax department money in assessing tens of thousands of FBT liable vehicles, the changes we’re all about how the government could save money by reducing tax department compliance employees. Last edited by jpd80; 26-03-2022 at 09:58 AM. |
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#22 | |||
Donating Member
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Quote:
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
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#23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Geelong
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#24 | |||
Thailand Specials
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#25 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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How many EV's can you actually buy for under 77k? Not many.
Typical Labour beholden to the crazy greens though. You'd have us all living in caves if they had their way. |
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#26 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,831
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now that's just BS. what' is wrong with trying to make things sustainable? it doesn't mean we can't have nice things. Might just mean that we have to keep them for more than six months.
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#27 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
And really, it's only going to make 2 fifths of f all difference anyway. Good luck getting your hands on EV's when Europe is taking up the supply. Only the cheapest Tesla comes in under that cut off point, and waiting lists are huge for that too. I'm not against EV's, we all know it's heading that way, but why should the taxpayers be forking out subsidies for it? I'd rather the government use the money to build some low (zero?) emissions nuclear reactors to replace the coal fired plants so everyone can benefit, and provide 24/7/365 base load power. Then maybe the energy used to charge the EV's won't be from dirty coal. And i'm sure that will provide a much bigger emissions saving than a few thousand EV's will. I'd like to see real actions, not nibbling at the edges token measures that do very little. |
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#28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,943
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Quote:
and yeah, a decade later scrap yards will be full of junked EVs and idiots blowing themselves up trying to recycle the batteries. But I think your are underestimating the ability of suppliers to adapt. Firstly their policy specifically also applies to PHEVs If you look at the American Market, just about any available Hybrid can be optioned as a PHEV, and in fact some models they have dispensed with the non-plugin versions. Whilst some PHEVS are very complex models in their own right, the most basic ones can be just a Hybrid with a plug. (With charging management built into either the cord or the plug.) Now I realise that the world has moved towards standardised charging points, but unless it's otherwise mandated by ADRs, there's no reason we won't seek a repeat of the American PHake-EVs. For those in the highest tax-bracket, this will almost halve the cost of the car. Remember back in the day when Japanese companies started up Australian Production to take advantage of our high import tariffs? Well this will be better than that. As for price, there may well be method in their madness. Remember what happened when Labour first introduced the Luxury Car tax? Suddenly you could buy a Mercedes where the radio (and everything else) was a dealer-fitted option, just to get it under the threshold. |
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#29 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 456
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They better hope there wind generators/farms are nowhere near peoples home. A precident has now been set for shutting the generators down at night. So the only energy to charge cars at night will be produced from coal.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-...ages/100938656
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#30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Oh but they expect the Government to subsidize.
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______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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