National identification card.

The MaDDeSTMaN · 19-07-2005, 01:27 PM

I'm sure most of you have heard about this, if not, here are some links to bring you up to speed on the subject:
http://theage.com.au/news/breaking/i...?oneclick=true
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=28824
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...5/s1415038.htm
http://newsbreak.com.au/related/a268015
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...5E1702,00.html

Just curious to see what everyone else here thinks, and PLEASE, nobody turn this into a political thread, lets just stick to the topic of a national ID card for Australians...

MITCHAY · 19-07-2005, 01:32 PM

Um i dont see much point. They can be faked just like any other card.

LuvinmyEB · 19-07-2005, 01:41 PM

Oh Puhleeeeeeeeeeease! How many times are the government going to try and implement this? It won't get through parliament, it's just a way to distract people from other current issues.

Although I am rather thankful we don't have 'Homeland Security' over here.. well not yet!

:

Casper · 19-07-2005, 02:05 PM

Its a pointless waste of time and money. Labor tried to bring it in and it was slammed, hopefully the same will happen if/when the Libs bring it in.

It wont help against terrorism in any way, shape or form.

JC · 22-07-2005, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Its a pointless waste of time and money. Labor tried to bring it in and it was slammed, hopefully the same will happen if/when the Libs bring it in.

It wont help against terrorism in any way, shape or form.

When labour tried, it was slammed by Dept of Health on privacy grounds - so instead we got the Medicare card and a data sharing arrangement between Commonwealth departments such as HIC, Tax, HFS, FaCS and Centrelink. The card would just make an informal/less formal arrangement formal. Bring it on I say - It will lighten my wallet by a few cards.

conordec · 19-07-2005, 02:05 PM

Sorry but I'm all for it.
Tree huggers aren't but they just don't get it.
The government knows everything about you anyway, why not just make it a bit safer?
We have one here in HK, faked???? sorry.. not if you do it like they have here.
Just my opinion, but if you aren't doing anything wrong, why would you be against it?

Mick.

MYV8 · 20-07-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conordec

Sorry but I'm all for it.
Tree huggers aren't but they just don't get it.
The government knows everything about you anyway, why not just make it a bit safer?
We have one here in HK, faked???? sorry.. not if you do it like they have here.
Just my opinion, but if you aren't doing anything wrong, why would you be against it?

Mick.

Totally agree. Nothing to hide what's the problem.

xceler8shun · 20-07-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYV8

Totally agree. Nothing to hide what's the problem.

same, they have all our details in one database or another.

not like we are giving up extra information or anything.

20-07-2005, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYV8

Totally agree. Nothing to hide what's the problem.

Let me paint this scenario, then.

1. News headlines: "The Federal Government today revealed that backup tapes for its national ID database disappeared on the way to the secure off-site storage facility they were destined for."

2. Three months later. Knock on MYV8's door, "Mr MYV8? About this morgage you took out on your house. You don't seem to have made any payments so we're here to sell your house to recoup the $500,000 we loaned you."

It's not having the data that's the problem, it's keeping it all in the one place. Your Medicare number is used as an index to many databases held in different places, such as your doctor's surgery or pharmacist. If anyone steals any one of those databases they can only get a small picture of your life. They have to have access to a great many databases to form a full picture of your life.

However, the idea behind the national ID card is not to provide a means of identification, because we already have enough of those, but to create a comprehensive database of our lives to simplify the task of identifying "suspects". Remember that it's not the ID that's the problem it's all the stuff behind it.

Now, if you have a database containing all of our details, you have the problem of making it available to those who "need to know" and keeping out those who wish to use it for nefarious gains. We've already had cases of insiders obtaining information from Police databases for criminal gain. Think what would happen if someone had a complete history of your life. Think about those "security" questions we get asked by banks, for example, and then imagine that someone has access to all of that information...

flappist · 19-07-2005, 02:11 PM

Johnny has control of both houses, the only way this will fail is if the Nats rebel.....

Paris Hilton · 19-07-2005, 02:13 PM

I reckon it'd be good because it'd make people easier to identify in a crash, etc etc

Heeno · 19-07-2005, 02:15 PM

so how differant is it to our drivers licence? does it have the time we were born or sommin or what religion we are?

MustangNicko · 19-07-2005, 02:20 PM

It will be different to a drivers licenence because not everyone has a drivers licence... people arent required to carry it around all times, only when you are operating the motor vehicle it was aquired for. I stand "mixed" on this topic.

FRDGAL · 19-07-2005, 02:25 PM

What kind of a world are we living in? An ID card? Geezus, next they'll be implanting chips in our heads and scanning us wherever we go.. Bah!

Heeno · 19-07-2005, 02:30 PM

well as long as its free and i don't have to waste my own time getting one then i couldn't care. if they make me pay and go outta my way to get one then i'll be ID free

loxxr6 · 19-07-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

What kind of a world are we living in? An ID card? Geezus, next they'll be implanting chips in our heads and scanning us wherever we go.. Bah!

Exactly. A bit too big brother for me.

The other prob that someone else raised was that it leaves everyone's details in one big database that hackers can get at. That can't be good.

**Stav** · 19-07-2005, 02:41 PM

I heard on the radio that the London terrorist were all entitled to the British id card legitimately. ..So it would do jack.

MITCHAY · 19-07-2005, 02:48 PM

Dont terrorists usually plan these things for years? Therefore they could obtain one. I mean if its a suicide bomber think about it. Do you really think they would care about ID?- no they would just blow them selves up. Since when has not having a licence stopped people from driving cars? Realistically its not feasible financially and logically.

question:
"Can i see your ID?"

response:
"BOOM"

**Polyal** · 19-07-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Dont terrorists usually plan these things for years? Therefore they could obtain one. I mean if its a suicide bomber think about it. Do you really think they would care about ID?- no they would just blow them selves up. Since when has not having a licence stopped people from driving cars? Realistically its not feasible financially and logically.

question:
"Can i see your ID?"

response:
"BOOM"

the only response I have to that is that on the upside its boom somewhere other then where they planned it; maybe less causulties.....

TheSneakiness · 19-07-2005, 02:41 PM

Nah, not the best thing for us right now. Too hard to police.

loxxr6 · 19-07-2005, 03:00 PM

Good point.

Shonky · 19-07-2005, 03:08 PM

Very good point actually...

Realistically, its not going to hurt and as long as it doesn't cost anything to get I'm all for it.

**Polyal** · 19-07-2005, 03:12 PM

I dont see the problem with it. Europe has it (well I know atleast France does). Can anyone come up with a good reason why we shouldn't have it? "Big Brother" doesn't count either; if the gov really wants to know something they will.

I dont have a problem with it, as long as I dont have to pay for it I really dont care. I just hope that they are a good size; the french ones are bloody huge which would mean Id have to get another wallet.

If it makes it easier to identify a random person, or if the event in which someone doesn't have one then obviously they have something to hide.

Either way I dont think its going to make any difference. If we get it fine, if not then whatever.

GraveDilute · 19-07-2005, 03:32 PM

I don't see how it can be very helpful. When I lived in Japan I had to carry a "Foreign Resident Identification Card" and it actually gave the police more rights over me (as a legal tax-paying resident) than when I was a foreign toursit in some of the so-called enemy states like Syria and Egypt.

There was a point that ID cards work well in Hong Kong. Good point, but this fails to take into account the fact that Hong Kong is monocultural so it's easy to pick "foreign devils" and also that with Chinese government control over the movement of its people (particularly those who dare to move to areas where they may get a decent job at a decent wage) there is a need for a national ID system.

We have already seen that people are able to abuse the system to receive legitimately issued Australian passports and other kinds of ID (take a look at that crappy show, "Border Security"? on Channel 7) and I think that rather than increase security that this kind of system will encourage phishing and ID theft even more. The burden of proving innocence will fall to the innocent victim, and I think that Australians are already wary of the Roman system of law (presumed guilty, prove your innocence), as seen by the widespread condemnation of the Schappelle Corby case, which by their standards of law was completely fair (this is not an invitation to hijack thread, etc, just a point)

conordec · 19-07-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraveDilute

There was a point that ID cards work well in Hong Kong. Good point, but this fails to take into account the fact that Hong Kong is monocultural so it's easy to pick "foreign devils" and also that with Chinese government control over the movement of its people (particularly those who dare to move to areas where they may get a decent job at a decent wage) there is a need for a national ID system.

Hong kong isn't monocultural at all, in Hong Kong, you're HK Chinese, 30 minutes by train from central HK and cross the "border" your in China.
You are required here to carry ID at all times (within reason) and the police mainly target Chinese Devils, or illegal immigrants from the mainland (who are more often than not here on illegal business/gamblers/hitmen).
In 4 years I have not once had to produce my ID, however I'm not such a scarey looking chum!!

Mick.

4.9 EF Futura · 19-07-2005, 04:06 PM

*meh* I got nothing to hide.

I wouldnt call it a knee-jerk reaction, but its definately "seen to be doing something" as opposed to an effective anti-terrorism initiative.

Cards aside, i'll be interested to see the legislation which supports the idea. i.e. does everyone have to have it on them all the time? what about homeless people, etc. ?

19-07-2005, 04:33 PM

The claim that an ID card will make us safer is incorrect. As has been mentioned above, the London terrorists would have all been eligible for an ID card. Even if they didn't they would have still been able to travel on public transport and if they couldn't use public transport there are many other places they could have attacked without an ID card. So, there goes that reason, so what is the real reason for the ID card?

I suggest that it will very likely be used to create a database of our movements so we can be tracked going about our lives. That's a problem, even if we have nothing to hide, because the data has the potential to be mis-used and even stolen. One can argue that the government already knows everything about us, but this data is not yet in one place and cannot be connected together without some amount of effort. The national ID card is a way of tying that information together.

Now this is OK if we have a reasonably benevolent government but think what Hitler could have done with this database.

19-07-2005, 04:42 PM

They will probably do something stupid like putting RFID chips in them as well.

19-07-2005, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardmech

They will probably do something stupid like putting RFID chips in them as well.

It'll make it easier to track us all as we walk down the street. Funny, it turns out that the only prediction that Orwell is likely to have got wrong in "1984" is the year.

bindi · 19-07-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeirdEL

It'll make it easier to track us all as we walk down the street. Funny, it turns out that the only prediction that Orwell is likely to have got wrong in "1984" is the year.

Damn straight! I agree, this is a privacy infringement. The more power we give over, the more they'll take (and then bend us over and force us to take :yeees: ).

Ridiculous, pointless, it won't stop terrorism. They are playing on our emotions and trying to sell it to us in a time where we are a little more worried and fearful.

Do you know what is the best revenge to a terrorist attack is, if you are a victim? Having lived a full and happy stressless life before you die. Kiss your kids often, enjoy each and every day, play lots and laugh even more...