This will make you think!

TIKFD6 · 25-02-2005, 06:26 PM

My dad sent me this in an email today, i was going to delete it, but im glad i didnt.
Its a very Haunting look at life in bagdad, some of us will be able to relate to.

If you dont get goose bumps your not human.

It goes for a few minutes.

http://www.clermontyellow.accountsup.../UntilThen.swf

Psycho Chicken · 25-02-2005, 06:37 PM

I've heard some f*cked up shit from two seppo mates who have been, one is still over there. It's really messed up some of the stuff the've been through and had to do.

Yet to have a talk to my aussie mate who got back last month.

Envious · 25-02-2005, 06:46 PM

(this is going to stir the pot a little)
pure septic propoganda.....im sorry but its the truth......

TIKFD6 · 25-02-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious

(this is going to stir the pot a little)
pure septic propoganda.....im sorry but its the truth......

Yes that it could be!, But did you get goose bumps?
Have yuo ever Ben in the Service?

Envious · 25-02-2005, 06:49 PM

no i didnt get goose bumps, and i am currently in the service...

Envious · 25-02-2005, 06:52 PM

the clips that give me goosebumps are the ones that show how the IRAQI's are coping, what they are doing, (and how my mates are going), not the seppos....the amount of damage the yanks have done is phenominal.....

dogbreath_48 · 25-02-2005, 06:55 PM

EDIT: became innapropriate after this thread fired up a bit

I did get the goosebumps...but did anyone else see something seriously wrong with the bloke filling up the donkey from the bowser?!

-Stu

Psycho Chicken · 25-02-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious

(this is going to stir the pot a little)
pure septic propoganda.....im sorry but its the truth......

What a load of tripe. So what if it is, what about all the stupid pro-Saddam/anti-war propoganda? I don't seen anyone bitching about that.

How about you tell my two mates that. While you're there tell the one who had to pull a gun on an eight year old girl who had a pistol pointed at him that his mates died for nothing. Then tell the other one who doesn't want to go back home because he fears he'll have a flashback in a supermarket, on the street or anywhere in public that this is just propaganda.

Put your **** on the line, THEN have a go at them.

TIKFD6 · 25-02-2005, 06:46 PM

Yes Rob i have heard some pretty bad stuff from mates who went over.
:(

TIKFD6 · 25-02-2005, 06:53 PM

Fair enough, having worked with the Yanks quite abit over the years i know what they are like.

But it is still stiring.

Psycho Chicken · 25-02-2005, 06:53 PM

Yes they have caused a shit load of damage and I think they are doing it the wrong way, however those are the guys on the ground, following orders and copping shit from pinkos everywhere. Is that fair on them?

Psycho Chicken · 25-02-2005, 06:56 PM

Sorry, it came across that you were bagging the whole thing out, I apologise for that.

However it does give an insight to what it's like for the guys on the ground, the guys who are going through all sorts of shit over there and no doubt will face more when they get home.

**Stav** · 25-02-2005, 07:00 PM

That is part of the price for the greed in search of oil!!! They forgot to show the bombs dropped on innocent civilians and the pverty theyhave caused in Iraq.

TIKFD6 · 25-02-2005, 07:02 PM

Damage happens in every conflict, the Allied forces are doing a hell of alot of less damage over there than has been done by the Iraqi's.

Dan its not steeling, its aquiring.

:

**Stav** · 25-02-2005, 07:05 PM

Thats true .Very true....it is always the innocent ones who pay..on both sides.

TIKFD6 · 25-02-2005, 08:06 PM

It was more the combo of the music and the pics that gave me the goose bumps.

Timmeh · 25-02-2005, 08:21 PM

To anyone who reckons they can fight a war without anything going 'wrong' - I invite you to try, you're a dreamer. People make mistakes at work all the time, but their mistakes don't impact anyone - oh no, disaster, someone put too much sauce on a burger! Not everything goes according to plan every single time, it's just in our profession when things go wrong, it's fatal and well publicised.

While every possible action must be taken to avoid the tragedies of war, there are no winners, and no matter how much you try to do your job as perfectly as possible, stuff still happens.

And people die. It's war. If terrorists weren't actively killing us, and the civilian aid workers there, we wouldn't have half the deaths. In fact, there'd be no need for any more.

Thanks for the link, Kerry, being away from home here for so long means I really identify with how some of those guys are feeling, all the best to them. People don't realise how much a little support goes a long way, hell, I sometimes don't hear from close friends when I go away until I get back.

I wish all the people over there the best, I hope they know people back home sitting on their ***** making stupid critical comments while drinking a beer on the lounge are wishing them well.

And yes, I do get passionate about it.

Tim

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."

Dez · 25-02-2005, 08:25 PM

there's a good line in "Rules of engagement" about war, and although i can't remember the EXACT wording, ill do my best

"you think there's a way to fight a war without ****ing anyone off? follow the rules and nobody gets hurt?.

Yes, innocent people probably died. Innocent people always die, but i was not going to stand by and watch another one of my marines die, just to live by those F*king rules"

more the first part is relevant here...but it is very very true.

MO · 25-02-2005, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmeh

To anyone who reckons they can fight a war without anything going 'wrong' - I invite you to try, you're a dreamer. People make mistakes at work all the time, but their mistakes don't impact anyone - oh no, disaster, someone put too much sauce on a burger! Not everything goes according to plan every single time, it's just in our profession when things go wrong, it's fatal and well publicised.

While every possible action must be taken to avoid the tragedies of war, there are no winners, and no matter how much you try to do your job as perfectly as possible, stuff still happens.

And people die. It's war. If terrorists weren't actively killing us, and the civilian aid workers there, we wouldn't have half the deaths. In fact, there'd be no need for any more.

Thanks for the link, Kerry, being away from home here for so long means I really identify with how some of those guys are feeling, all the best to them. People don't realise how much a little support goes a long way, hell, I sometimes don't hear from close friends when I go away until I get back.

I wish all the people over there the best, I hope they know people back home sitting on their ***** making stupid critical comments while drinking a beer on the lounge are wishing them well.

And yes, I do get passionate about it.

Tim

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."

Your sort of on track however there are those that join when there needed and those that join cause the fed.

The point of this is if you join a military service,you can expect to go into a conflict at any time.

Whilst I could not get the link up...dial up and bloody slow @28.6k....I guess what I'm trying to say is if your in a conflict you do everything you can to stay alive and get home....no matter what...war crimes don't count unless your stupid or get caught.

War/conflict is no longer about the superior force winning ....it's about the most politically correct force winning.

As for Veitnam they only sent those that did'nt want to go..I wanted to go but was never posted...go figure and think about it??!!!

Timmeh,you still have'nt told me what you train the F18 pilots in,it would be nice to know!!!!

Timmeh · 26-02-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Timmeh,you still have'nt told me what you train the F18 pilots in,it would be nice to know!!!!

My apologies, I did not see your question anywhere... have you posted in a thread I am not aware of?

I won't go into much detail into what I do for obvious reasons, but I do a range of work with them, from conversion from the Hawk lead in fighter to certifications, lead ups to missile shoots, pretty much anything they need practise in, just to keep their skills up or hone a particular event.

Tim

TIKFD6 · 25-02-2005, 08:27 PM

Well said Tim.

LuvinmyEB · 25-02-2005, 09:01 PM

I don't know what I was thinking when I tried to join the army. I'm grateful now that I never went back 2 months later when they told me to and I would have been accepted.

Despite peoples opinions on the war, that is one very stirring show, what are the guys thinking about? Their families, friends, just wanting to get home?

It certainly sent chills down my spine.

These guys are like ex Vietnam Veterans. They can't operate properly in society when they get back, they want to talk but can't. I wish I had the statistics in front of me for how many social workers/councillors there are for every returned servicemen. All I can remember is that it's a rediculously low amount.

Whether I agree with what's going on, I want all our guys and girls home safely, back with their families, where they belong.

Keep up the good work guys even if you don't agree with what your doing, there are some people that understand that you're following orders.

Keep yourselves safe and come home in one piece.

Dez · 25-02-2005, 09:09 PM

as much as I too want all the soldiers, not just ours, to return safely to their families, the fact is, if you join the army, and there is a war, then where they are at the moment is where they belong.

if you join the army you should readily accept the fact that you may have to actually do some real fighting in a war.....thats what the army is there for.

too many people seem to join the army and are not at all willing to fight when it comes time to.

fordel · 25-02-2005, 08:47 PM

Yep have to agree with every word Tim said there, so very true

Chris

TIKFD6 · 25-02-2005, 09:08 PM

LuvinmyEB, its not just Vietnam Vets,
PDSD is a huge problem in guys who went to Timor, Somalia, and Rawanda, which was one of the worts.

I Went to Bouganville in 1994, For the original talks thy had there, and there was a bit of bad shit that happend there.
I have also ben diagnosed with some Phsyc, problems from my Military service, and i cant even start to imagnie what my father goes through.
He went to Vietnam 3 times, and saw and went through some Very bad shit.

Even worse was his fathers generation, WWII vetrans, and worse again was the WWI vets.
They had no supprot and if they showed that they had problems they where called weak, and werent men.

LuvinmyEB · 25-02-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIKFD6

LuvinmyEB, its not just Vietnam Vets,
PDSD is a huge problem in guys who went to Timor, Somalia, and Rawanda, which was one of the worts.

I Went to Bouganville in 1994, For the original talks thy had there, and there was a bit of bad shit that happend there.
I have also ben diagnosed with some Phsyc, problems from my Military service, and i cant even start to imagnie what my father goes through.
He went to Vietnam 3 times, and saw and went through some Very bad shit.

Even worse was his fathers generation, WWII vetrans, and worse again was the WWI vets.
They had no supprot and if they showed that they had problems they where called weak, and werent men.

I know it's not just the Vietnam vets, it's just the first thing that came to my mind. My uncle did one tour and came back thinking he was invincible and then was killed after an argument and a car chase. I've actually had a fair few relations that were in WWI & WWII.

They don't talk about it and yes you're right, it was drummed into them that men are weak if they cry. Having worked in Psych myself, I have seen my share of ex service men with PTSD and other pyschiatriac problems. It's not a pretty sight, it really does annoy me that people shun our service men when they get back home. They were sent to do a job, they had to follow orders, and I'm damn sure (in fact I KNOW having sat in on initial pscyh interviews with these now shells of men) that they did not want to do the majority of the things that they had to do let alone see any of the things that they did.

Timmeh, do you know of any websites/places/agancies where you can become a penpal/email pals of Aussie troops?

Timmeh · 25-02-2005, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvinmyEB

Timmeh, do you know of any websites/places/agancies where you can become a penpal/email pals of Aussie troops?

You can go to http://www.defence.gov.au/message_to_troops.cfm for general messages, but I'd have to investigate further for a more specific one.

Tim

Timmeh · 25-02-2005, 09:15 PM

Dez - the issue for serving members is not the willingness to fight, its the attitude by people who have no idea, sitting on their couch, slagging us off.

No offence, but a vast majority have no idea what it's like and think that a war can be run like some sort of Hollywood script where it all ends with warm fuzzy feelings, a nice song, and some closing credits.

And then wonder why troops get tired, depressed, and frustrated when they get no support from home, because all they hear is that people back home don't think they should be there and are too busy arguing with each other, rather than showing a little bloody support.

The smallest things like writing a letter goes a hell of a long way, being stuck in a dusthole for months away from home, a letter makes your day, its something you can read over and over, and it feels like home.

They are the issues I am bringing up.

Tim

Dez · 25-02-2005, 09:20 PM

i wasn't really referring to your post mate, i was just making a general statement....its an opinion i've had for a while

some people would say "well why dont you go fight"
but the problem with that statement is, if i was to join the army, i would be willing to fight in a war, otherwise i would not have joined

and i'm not 1 of those people who sits at home slagging them off.... i'm not like that at all. my dad served for 22 years, and fortunately didnt have to fight, but i know he was willing to if the need arose.

BlueRaven · 25-02-2005, 09:31 PM

Tim brings up some fantastic points there...

I can say that I was untouched by most of that clip, however like many other people out there - my dad went to vietnam and suffers from post traumatic stress disorder amongst other things. He stayed in the army for 30years.

To me, these people are heros. I don't agree with the meaning of ANY war, but for a troop to go over there - regardless of what they believe - and fight for their country for that sole purpose...thats heroism.

I can not imagine what its like to fear for your life 24hrs a day, constantly on the edge...when they come back, things will never be the same again.