Global climate change - are you willing to make a sacrifice?

Falcon Freak · 30-10-2006, 10:48 PM

This subject is in the news a lot lately. As a driver of a V8 powered vehicle it makes me realise that one day cars such as these will be made prohibitively expensive to own and run. I am not talking just fuel costs. Things like a carbon tax will hurt big capacity engines and high performance cars. I am not willing to give up driving V8 powered Falcons. What do you guys make of this situation and possible future developments?

FF

S3SR · 30-10-2006, 10:55 PM

sorry but apparently with regard to the 'keoto' spelling agreement (yes this is related) australia uses LESS then the amount we are allowed to anyways so i dont no why we should even be giving anything up, its the OVER developed countries that need to first, anyways i think the world is stuffed as it is.....damn hot spring or whatever season it is now in tville anyways so bring on the BIG family car with better aircon's then the smaller 'bowser wowser' korean junk

anyways if a law came in they kill me and take the falcon from my lifeless fingers...only way!

**Sorted** · 30-10-2006, 11:00 PM

Well I don't have kids so I won't have to save the planet.

And if and when it comes time for the Government to actually act seriously about Global Warming all the Government will do is impose fines or extra taxes to line their pockets and they will think that the best and most cost effective way to reduce the problem.

Thats my 2 cents - glad I got that of my chest

And lets all remember this is only my opinion

XD 351 Ute · 30-10-2006, 11:05 PM

I already do, the ute chews way too much fuel to drive it every day!!

In my opinion, the global warming & fuel scare is a scam anyway.
The only thing driving those is greed, pure and simple.

Ed

Poetic Justice · 30-10-2006, 11:07 PM

I have reduced to driving a corolla every day and the V8 on weekends

charles_wif_xf · 01-11-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackout

I have reduced to driving a corolla every day and the V8 on weekends

I have been reduced to GULP using public transport. Train all the way to work (well 2 trains and a bit of walking).

zetec · 30-10-2006, 11:41 PM

I flog the 2.0 Focus as hard as I ever did, but now I run on 98 RON instead of 95 RON so I guess I'm paying a little more to be more enviro friendly with cleaner burning fuel. That's as far as I'm going.

MRJUCY · 30-10-2006, 11:54 PM

The only real problem is listening to the rubbish from hippies. I'm willing to sacrifice my time to round them up take them to the middle of the desert, burn their Kombis & hybrids & leave them out there to let them get back to nature.

merlin · 31-10-2006, 08:16 AM

I seriously cannot believe that people STILL think global warming is a scam - yep bury your head in the sand and ignore all the evidence that scientists have been screaming for years and even now, finally, the British government has jumped on board saying that radical changes need to happen right now or the world will be a very different place within OUR lifetimes - you think they would risk saying this and spending millions if there was no problem?

John Howard is ignorant on this particular issue and continues to ignore the warning signs, I'm not a Howard basher (I think he is good on the financial side of running the country) but on this issue I disagree with him and I think he needs to seriosuly change his position. What is the point of giving billions of tax payers money to farmers who cant farm the land due to excessive drought? Fix the problem in the first place!

Back to the original question though about people giving up V8's - You have to look at the big picture - A FEW THOUSAND AUSTRALIANS GIVING UP V8's WILL NOT AFFECT THE WORLDS CLIMATE IN THE SLIGHTEST. Car emmisions in Aus do not make up that significant a difference. It all comes down to heavy industry and coal fired power stations. If we converted to Nuclear power we could help solve this countries climate problems almost overnight.

Oh and by the way per capita Australia is the worst in the world when it comes to this problem so saying it is someone elses fault is not really fair.

We stand to lose a lot (almost more than any other country) - We have a very harsh, hot, dry climate, oodles of coast line where most of the population lives and rely heavily on private transport taking us long distances.

I plan of having kids in about 5 years time - I imagine I would do anything to protect them. If your kid stepped in front of a runaway train would you risk your life, jump in front of the train and push them out of the way? I like to think everyone would. Now imagine the train as global warming bearing down at us at an ever increasing rate - your unborn child or grandchild being born into a world almost uninhabitable due to our current inaction. Don't stand still, jump in front of the damn train! What can you do? You can lobby the government for nuclear power, write letters to your MP demanding action on global warming, refuse to vote for a government that will stand still on the issue.

As the British report basically said - Yes it cannot be 100% proven that massive climate upheavel will take place BUT the consequenses of doing nothing are simply to massive to ignore, the risk simply too high.

My 2c.

The News headlines yesterday

JG66ME · 31-10-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

I seriously cannot believe that people STILL think global warming is a scam - yep bury your head in the sand and ignore all the evidence that scientists have been screaming for years and even now, finally, the British government has jumped on board saying that radical changes need to happen right now or the world will be a very different place within OUR lifetimes - you think they would risk saying this and spending millions if there was no problem?

John Howard is ignorant on this particular issue and continues to ignore the warning signs, I'm not a Howard basher (I think he is good on the financial side of running the country) but on this issue I disagree with him and I think he needs to seriosuly change his position. What is the point of giving billions of tax payers money to farmers who cant farm the land due to excessive drought? Fix the problem in the first place!

Back to the original question though about people giving up V8's - You have to look at the big picture - A FEW THOUSAND AUSTRALIANS GIVING UP V8's WILL NOT AFFECT THE WORLDS CLIMATE IN THE SLIGHTEST. Car emmisions in Aus do not make up that significant a difference. It all comes down to heavy industry and coal fired power stations. If we converted to Nuclear power we could help solve this countries climate problems almost overnight.

Oh and by the way per capita Australia is the worst in the world when it comes to this problem so saying it is someone elses fault is not really fair.

We stand to lose a lot (almost more than any other country) - We have a very harsh, hot, dry climate, oodles of coast line where most of the population lives and rely heavily on private transport taking us long distances.

I plan of having kids in about 5 years time - I imagine I would do anything to protect them. If your kid stepped in front of a runaway train would you risk your life, jump in front of the train and push them out of the way? I like to think everyone would. Now imagine the train as global warming bearing down at us at an ever increasing rate - your unborn child or grandchild being born into a world almost uninhabitable due to our current inaction. Don't stand still, jump in front of the damn train! What can you do? You can lobby the government for nuclear power, write letters to your MP demanding action on global warming, refuse to vote for a government that will stand still on the issue.

As the British report basically said - Yes it cannot be 100% proven that massive climate upheavel will take place BUT the consequenses of doing nothing are simply to massive to ignore, the risk simply too high.

My 2c.

The News headlines yesterday

I think this sums up what I want to say.
The drought is a worry. I just bought two 5000 gal water tanks to add to my 6600 gal tank. So I am doing my bit to reduce water use (or is that more efficiant use?). Also planted about 200 trees on my property and I need to water them. Its a catch 22.

We can all ruduce the pollution our cars emmit by keeping them well tuned and driving in a sedate manner. Not on and off the gass all the time. Use cruise control when you can etc. Try to lower your gass milage.
Its Power stations and heavy industry that is the biggest problem.

Steve

drcook · 31-10-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

I seriously cannot believe that people STILL think global warming is a scam - yep bury your head in the sand and ignore all the evidence that scientists have been screaming for years and even now, finally, the British government has jumped on board saying that radical changes need to happen right now or the world will be a very different place within OUR lifetimes - you think they would risk saying this and spending millions if there was no problem?

John Howard is ignorant on this particular issue and continues to ignore the warning signs, I'm not a Howard basher (I think he is good on the financial side of running the country) but on this issue I disagree with him and I think he needs to seriosuly change his position. What is the point of giving billions of tax payers money to farmers who cant farm the land due to excessive drought? Fix the problem in the first place!

Back to the original question though about people giving up V8's - You have to look at the big picture - A FEW THOUSAND AUSTRALIANS GIVING UP V8's WILL NOT AFFECT THE WORLDS CLIMATE IN THE SLIGHTEST. Car emmisions in Aus do not make up that significant a difference. It all comes down to heavy industry and coal fired power stations. If we converted to Nuclear power we could help solve this countries climate problems almost overnight.

Oh and by the way per capita Australia is the worst in the world when it comes to this problem so saying it is someone elses fault is not really fair.

We stand to lose a lot (almost more than any other country) - We have a very harsh, hot, dry climate, oodles of coast line where most of the population lives and rely heavily on private transport taking us long distances.

I plan of having kids in about 5 years time - I imagine I would do anything to protect them. If your kid stepped in front of a runaway train would you risk your life, jump in front of the train and push them out of the way? I like to think everyone would. Now imagine the train as global warming bearing down at us at an ever increasing rate - your unborn child or grandchild being born into a world almost uninhabitable due to our current inaction. Don't stand still, jump in front of the damn train! What can you do? You can lobby the government for nuclear power, write letters to your MP demanding action on global warming, refuse to vote for a government that will stand still on the issue.

As the British report basically said - Yes it cannot be 100% proven that massive climate upheavel will take place BUT the consequenses of doing nothing are simply to massive to ignore, the risk simply too high.

My 2c.

The News headlines yesterday

so what are you doing about it?

merlin · 01-11-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcook

so what are you doing about it?

On a personal basis I work in government public transport operations and planning

However:

I honestly don't think any one individual can make a significant difference - I have always been into and always will be into the big picture, I am a realist. I have my views and pass my views onto those that ask, and try and educate the people in the dark on the issue.

I believe that the only people who can solve the big picture are world governments (scary huh?). As such I will help the environment the next time an election comes around.

Bud Bud · 01-11-2006, 09:47 AM

This is an interesting angle that not too many people have considered. This may have some ramifications that could affect all of us, through our own businesses, and our employers etc.

Govts and companies may be sued on climate change

1/11/2006 - Law suits against governments and companies over their roles in global warming have a good chance of success, academics say.

University of Adelaide researchers say scientific evidence shows a `human signature' on global warming as great as that linking cigarette smoking with cancer.

Researchers Dr Joseph Smith and Professor David Shearman said they had analysed the basis for potential legal claims against governments and companies over climate change.

"The potential grounds of liability are now quite clear," Dr Smith said in a statement.

"And the scientific evidence is at a point where, in many cases, it would meet the legal requirements for civil standards of proof - that is, the balance of probability being greater than 50 per cent."

He cited an ongoing law suit in the United States by the state of California against six major car manufacturers seeking monetary damages for alleged contributions to global warming.

"Major grounds against companies could include negligence, product liability, nuisance, breach of directors' duties and liability under environmental pollution statutes," Dr Smith said.

"For governments, actions are likely to be based on administrative laws for failing to fulfill statutory obligations to protect the environment."

Prof Shearman said there was clear evidence of global warming's effects on human health such as increasing deaths through heat stress and injury from storms, as well as the impact of large communities losing areas of productive lands.

Source: AAP NewsWire

SVT8 · 01-11-2006, 09:50 AM

im not giving up my v8 for some hippie’s!. If worst comes to worst they can plant some trees on my car so the emissions get used up by the plants!. Look on the plus side, i can grab an apple from the tree growing on my car and not at maccas for 50c. Ripoff!

_

Rob · 01-11-2006, 11:01 AM

If it wasnt for the problem of power stations creating so much in the way of greenhouse emissions, I'd say bring on the electric car. Masses of instantaneous torque? Yum!

Work Horse · 01-11-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVT8

im not giving up my v8 for some hippie’s!. If worst comes to worst they can plant some trees on my car so the emissions get used up by the plants!. Look on the plus side, i can grab an apple from the tree growing on my car and not at maccas for 50c. Ripoff!

_

I understand that you were not being completely serious. The idea that planting trees can some how clean up carbon emissions is a furphy. Had we never cut down any trees we would still be in much the same situation emmission wise.

There are a heap of other good reasons to plant/not to cut down trees.

But I don't wish to sound like a 'greenie', what have they ever done for us? Well there was that thing with the daming of the Franklin in Tassie. And they have been banging on about solar power for ages, now Victoria is building the largest solar power station in the world....

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

I ran this past my friend who just had a baby delivered at a public hospital and is now beginning treatment at said hospital for lymphoma. I kid you not.

She didnt agree, apparently there is quite a lot done with taxpayer money.

And what the hell is government doing getting involved in running a bussiness like our health system? Surely it should be privatised, and run way more efficiently and make way more money like they do in the USA.
Sorry mate couldn't resist

:

Spotty · 01-11-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

I seriously cannot believe that people STILL think global warming is a scam - yep bury your head in the sand and ignore all the evidence that scientists have been screaming for years and even now, finally, the British government has jumped on board saying that radical changes need to happen right now or the world will be a very different place within OUR lifetimes - you think they would risk saying this and spending millions if there was no problem?

John Howard is ignorant on this particular issue and continues to ignore the warning signs, I'm not a Howard basher (I think he is good on the financial side of running the country) but on this issue I disagree with him and I think he needs to seriosuly change his position. What is the point of giving billions of tax payers money to farmers who cant farm the land due to excessive drought? Fix the problem in the first place!

Back to the original question though about people giving up V8's - You have to look at the big picture - A FEW THOUSAND AUSTRALIANS GIVING UP V8's WILL NOT AFFECT THE WORLDS CLIMATE IN THE SLIGHTEST. Car emmisions in Aus do not make up that significant a difference. It all comes down to heavy industry and coal fired power stations. If we converted to Nuclear power we could help solve this countries climate problems almost overnight.

Oh and by the way per capita Australia is the worst in the world when it comes to this problem so saying it is someone elses fault is not really fair.

We stand to lose a lot (almost more than any other country) - We have a very harsh, hot, dry climate, oodles of coast line where most of the population lives and rely heavily on private transport taking us long distances.

I plan of having kids in about 5 years time - I imagine I would do anything to protect them. If your kid stepped in front of a runaway train would you risk your life, jump in front of the train and push them out of the way? I like to think everyone would. Now imagine the train as global warming bearing down at us at an ever increasing rate - your unborn child or grandchild being born into a world almost uninhabitable due to our current inaction. Don't stand still, jump in front of the damn train! What can you do? You can lobby the government for nuclear power, write letters to your MP demanding action on global warming, refuse to vote for a government that will stand still on the issue.

As the British report basically said - Yes it cannot be 100% proven that massive climate upheavel will take place BUT the consequenses of doing nothing are simply to massive to ignore, the risk simply too high.

My 2c.

The News headlines yesterday

Think global act local....that is a great slogan........let me ask this is the world and its various governmnets in a position to work together to bring about such a huge change that is neecesscary? There are 2 many entrenched power bases, vested business and political interests that will prevent a united approach and for everyone to see the world as one. I ask this question....if you were up in space and look down on the earth what WOULDNT you see? The answer is country borders and polictical systems..these systems hamper our ability to work collectively and deal with climate change. By the way for all of you who doubt that climate change is happening and/or it is a greenie or extreme environmentalist view then take a look at the Stern report which was released yesterday. I have attached the link below.....read the summary of the report. The report has credibility. It includes all the facts and evidence that climate change is here NOW as well as some very confronting outcomes if we do not act. Our politicians need a further shock to deal with with this problem and if the Stern report is not enough to get some serious action then we the people need to respond in the only way that we know is going to get some results from our political leaders...and that is when we vote. We have an election soon in victoria and although Bracks is doing some good things it is not enough. So....I will be sending a clear message an voting for the greens. I have some real concerns about a number of their policies and hate the thought of being a single issue voter BUT I am feeling an absolute sense of desperation about the lack of action and all the fluffy coments from our politicians. Anyway heres the link to the Stern Report.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/indepe...view_index.cfm

jimmy_c · 31-10-2006, 08:28 AM

Thats all well and good but you have too look at the people who fund the activities that create all the polution. We have people like the EPA who do SFA and let people who create the bigest messes off with fines.

So when you have idiots in power not knowing what each foot is doing then we are all going to be in a big mess.

This biggest creation of polution and global warming is the quest for money and power.

Im not giving up my car just because the managers cannot manage the greed.

jimmy_c · 31-10-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

This subject is in the news a lot lately. As a driver of a V8 powered vehicle it makes me realise that one day cars such as these will be made prohibitively expensive to own and run. I am not talking just fuel costs. Things like a carbon tax will hurt big capacity engines and high performance cars. I am not willing to give up driving V8 powered Falcons. What do you guys make of this situation and possible future developments?

FF

Why dont they tax things like smelters and coal companies and power stations. This is just another cash grab.

We pay enough tax as it is and they dont do anything with the money anyway.

If anything the Industry Heads should be paying for it. not the people.

4.9 EF Futura · 31-10-2006, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

We pay enough tax as it is and they dont do anything with the money anyway.

?

Que?

I ran this past my friend who just had a baby delivered at a public hospital and is now beginning treatment at said hospital for lymphoma. I kid you not.

She didnt agree, apparently there is quite a lot done with taxpayer money.

To be honest, ive been waiting for this thread to appear. And in another shocking moment of honesty - the responses are of little suprise to me. There's not a single person in this country who will take personal responsibility for the environment.

Make howard sign kyoto, make the companies pay more tax on their emissions, EPA should to more than issue fines etc etc etc. Excuse me for a minute, I just have to answer another thread about gutting cats for an extra kw. Sick mate, should be able to get into the 14s now.

It's always someone elses problem hey?

"Oh, a few V8s wont change anything"

Perhaps a tad cliche, but think global - act local. The state of california has more cars than our entire country. So... they should all give up their gas guzzlers so we can keep ours?

Every bit helps. To suggest that your V8 doesnt make a material difference... well, isnt it great when every other person in the world tells themselves the same thing.

Hah, gotta be the greatest thing about the human race, our ability to bury our heads in the sands of denial. I guess it's this attitude that sees us do more damage in a few thousand years than everything managed to accomplish over 60 million years.

Pffft, what to dinosaurs know about destroying a planet? Amateurs.

Quote:

australia uses LESS then the amount we are allowed to anyways so i dont no why we should even be giving anything up, its the OVER developed countries that need to first, anyways i think the world is stuffed as it is

Good call, i'll also throw in developing nations... the key reason for our refusal to sign up to kyoto. What good is it the protocol if india and china are allowed a free reign on emissions because they're "just catching up with the rest of yas".

drcook · 31-10-2006, 09:37 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/news/environme...056926610.html

it also says that the US (suprise!) is contributing 39% of the worlds greenhouse gases.

a good read, and i am concious of the world's environmental state and that we, as a country, need to do something about it........

but, changing your driving habits is a bit like saying i'll slaughter one cow to stop it from farting to reduce the methane levels....

we all may have our part to play, but there is bigger 'fish to fry' environmentally speaking that need to be stopped or reduced.

Lets fight the fights that NEED to be won, not the fights that are easy to win.

Eaturbo · 31-10-2006, 09:45 AM

Yeah this topic really scares me, What if its true?? just think how bad it could get. Do you really think that we can all pump Billions of litres of pollution into the air while cutting down all these trees and that things can just keep going on there merry way. The worlds population keeps growing at an alarming rate which puts more stress on water and food production, just how many people can the world support. If you get a fish bowl and just keep adding goldfish, eventually they die from lack of oxygen, is this where we are heading??.

phoon · 31-10-2006, 09:53 AM

And wait until the Chinese all become affluent enough to buy cars, theres 1.4 billion of them.

max · 31-10-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoon

And wait until the Chinese all become affluent enough to buy cars, theres 1.4 billion of them.

You don't have to wait, its already started!

jimmy_c · 31-10-2006, 10:37 AM

I am sick of paying money out in taxes and nothing gets fixed. They put up the price of water and everything else.

Climate change is here and alive. Taxing the end user when industry and other people play a large part fixes nothing.

yes cars cause emmisions im not denying that. So do power stations but you dont see clean ones being built.

And you dont see Shell or anyone else releasing clean fuels.

mcflux · 31-10-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

I am sick of paying money out in taxes and nothing gets fixed. They put up the price of water and everything else.

Climate change is here and alive. Taxing the end user when industry and other people play a large part fixes nothing.

yes cars cause emmisions im not denying that. So do power stations but you dont see clean ones being built.

And you dont see Shell or anyone else releasing clean fuels.

Price of water? Nothing gets fixed? May I refer to to http://www.gippslandwaterfactory.com.au/ for some enlightenment. This is just one project being undertaken in an effort to save water consumption.

The power industry has strict environmental guidelines they have to stick to. If they breach these guidelines, they risk losing the privilege to produce and sell electricity, or cop massive fines. ($1m/day sound nasty enough?)

Clean power stations? Name a form of energy that is sustainable, available, and affordable for today's culture (and magnitude of consumption). OK so there are coal plants in other parts of the world with no forms of pollution control, but here in Australia we use pollution preventative measures such as electically-charged precipitators and filtration baghouses to remove particulates from entering the atmosphere. And when you burn coal and air, you get water vapour and CO2 as a result. Nothing you can do about that one matey.

We don't see Shell or anyone else releasing clean fuels? The days of Super are over man, we use unleaded fuel ONLY now for motor vehicles. And LPG is on the rise, which is much more environmentally friendly than petroleum. OK, so neither fuel type is new, but we are using fuels today which are much better for the environment than 20 years ago.

sgt_doofey · 31-10-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Although yearly and decadal variations are evident in these time series of annual global surface mean temperatures, the 1901-2004 long-term trend in combined land and ocean temperatures is positive (+0.6°C/century). Land surface temperatures have increased at a rate of +0.8°C/century while ocean surface temperatures have risen +0.6°C/century during the same time period. The trend has increased to +0.17°C/decade during the past 25-year period (1979-2004) for combined land and ocean temperatures.

From the National Climatic Data Centre http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/...ch/trends.html

mcflux · 31-10-2006, 10:39 AM

I'll only focus on cars here, as the thread topic started with regard to V8s.

Do consumers stop to think about how much energy and resources go into producing new cars?

There's a Prius driver who poo-poos my car at work. Did he stop to think that much more materials and energy were consumed to produce his Prius than my EB V8 from 15 years ago? Just because it uses half as much fuel doesn't mean it's automatically more environmentally friendly.

Buying old cars is technically recycling.

A thirsty Clevo-powered X-series that spits out more unburnt hydrocarbons out of its exhausts than what a new BF would consume in a year may not be the most environmentally-friendly option, but something like an old six on gas or an old four (80s corolla, etc) would be much more environmentally friendly than purchasing a new car, assuming it has a healthy motor and some form of emissions control (cat converter for example).

OK so if my EB was a six on gas it would be a better environmental choice than a V8, but then where do you draw the line? All of us here are enthusiasts, we all like to participate in events like cruises (let's burn a crapload of fuel by having a whole convoy of cars drive around, compared to hiring a single bus for everyone, or simply avoiding the event), drags, etc.

The Kyoto Protocal as a whole is flawed and will never work for the reasons which Martin has stated.

muppet · 31-10-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

I'll only focus on cars here, as the thread topic started with regard to V8s.

Do consumers stop to think about how much energy and resources go into producing new cars?

There's a Prius driver who poo-poos my car at work. Did he stop to think that much more materials and energy were consumed to produce his Prius than my EB V8 from 15 years ago? Just because it uses half as much fuel doesn't mean it's automatically more environmentally friendly.

Buying old cars is technically recycling.

A thirsty Clevo-powered X-series that spits out more unburnt hydrocarbons out of its exhausts than what a new BF would consume in a year may not be the most environmentally-friendly option, but something like an old six on gas or an old four (80s corolla, etc) would be much more environmentally friendly than purchasing a new car, assuming it has a healthy motor and some form of emissions control (cat converter for example).

OK so if my EB was a six on gas it would be a better environmental choice than a V8, but then where do you draw the line? All of us here are enthusiasts, we all like to participate in events like cruises (let's burn a crapload of fuel by having a whole convoy of cars drive around, compared to hiring a single bus for everyone, or simply avoiding the event), drags, etc.

The Kyoto Protocal as a whole is flawed and will never work for the reasons which Martin has stated.

I have often wondered how much pollution building a new car makes. I think that companies pumping out cars that are only designed to last 5 or so years and cost the least amount of money possible is just irresponsible. I drive a 1976 5.8L falcon(soon to be on LPG) I only do around 100 k a week how am I any worse than someone that buys a new 4 cyl car every 3 years and does 1000 k a week.
There are far better things the government can do to ease pollution. How about they stop Mcdonalds from giving out toys with their happy meals I wonder how much polution they put out to produce them. I know that sounds silly but if every little bit helps then every one should do their little bit. I think you're buying old cars is recycling line is a classic I am going to hit the government up for an enviromental grant so I can rebuild my car lol.

Bud Bud · 31-10-2006, 02:20 PM

The problem here is that most of us acknowledge that there is a growing concern about "greenhouse gas" emissions, some say make the pollies fix it, and others say drive 4 cylinder cars or make the manufactures of those cars more responsible.

The reality is nobody on this forum or anyone else for that matter (while well meaning) have come up with any real practical solutions. While giving up our V8 cars in the name of saving the environment no matter how noble that maybe, we still need to get a grasp on the size and gravity of the big picture.

The world has shrunk in the last 100 years allowing big business and commerce to grow at an incredible rate and the industrial revolution that kick started everything we take for granted today is in full swing in various measures across the globe.

A good example of this is the suburban sprawl, which was built solely on the invention of the automobile and the availability of cheap fuel to power it. Public transport still plays a big part, but without personal transport today, many suburbs will be abandoned leaving real estate values across the globe in tatters. Another example is with another modern convenience, the world aviation industry (only just 100 years old now). I found this a little while ago.

(taken from the "International Herald Tribune" titled "Opposing environmental need tug at world’s airlines", by Don Phillips, Sunday June 4 2006)

"Quote- On the air pollution front, too, the industry is in a bind. Jet engines still burn the same fuel they burned 40 years ago - Jet A, which is basically kerosene. With more planes in the sky, civil aviation has become the fastest-growing source of carbon dioxide emissions.

Advances in fuel efficiency have made aircraft 70 percent more energy efficient today than they were 40 years ago. "However, sustained increases in passenger traffic have offset this remarkable achievement," said Assad Kotaite, retiring this year after decades as president of the International Civil Aviation Organization in Montreal.

Engine manufacturers say that, in the long run, there are promising substitutes, including synthetic kerosene. And far into the future, such fuels as cryogenic methane and cryogenic hydrogen may be possible.

There are practical problems with some promising jet fuel substitutes, Burleson said. Soybean oil has about the same heat content as jet fuel, but to provide enough soybean oil to add a 15 percent mixture to every airliner tank would require 34 million acres, or 13.8 million hectares, of soybean plantation - an area about the size of Florida. Unquote"

Did he say "the size of Florida"???? and that is just for a 15 percent mix!

Another example is, I can remember reading somewhere that in the US alone that it cost the equivalent of ten calories of energy for every single calorie of food eaten.

The whole world economy (developed or not) is built in some way on greenhouse gas emissions and the way I see it, as long as somebody has a need for something to buy there will always be somebody else willing to sell it to them eg; petroleum, coal, timber, plastics, SUV’s etc. unfortunately at the expense of the environment.