High Performance Cars And P Platers

[XRQTOR]

P.s that bird in your avatar aint half bad either.

[KELDO_XR8]

Young people, mainly young men kill themselves on our roads almost every day. Some of them are indeed driving high powered cars. Young men especially are going to try and explore the limits of their cars, even a little old bomb is still capable of reaching 100k's in a 50 zone. The problem here is that were not giving young people sufficient training before alowing them to go solo. In VIC the covernment encourages all L platers to gain 120hrs of practice before attempting their liscence. How many people actually go through with that? How many people out there have a few lessons and front up for their tests? its not that hard to drive nicely in a little pulsar or whatever for 20mins during your test. That person can then jump behing the wheel of basically any car he chooses and burn of down the street. This person could be driving a 73 corrola or an AU XR8. The point here is that our young drivers are 'encouraged' to have 120 hours practice and take formal lessons. There are no regulations forcing young drivers to recieve adeqate instruction. Here lies the problem. The fact that a young person can get there license without adequate supervised driving is scary.

For the record im 19 and drive an EF XR8. i had probably double the recomended driving practice and feel comfortable driving an 8. Instead of policing those who drive V8's they should be making it mandatory for new drivers to be prepared for anything that lies ahead.
Keldo.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by KELDO_XR8

Young people, mainly young men kill themselves on our roads almost every day. Some of them are indeed driving high powered cars. Young men especially are going to try and explore the limits of their cars, even a little old bomb is still capable of reaching 100k's in a 50 zone. The problem here is that were not giving young people sufficient training before alowing them to go solo. In VIC the covernment encourages all L platers to gain 120hrs of practice before attempting their liscence. How many people actually go through with that? How many people out there have a few lessons and front up for their tests? its not that hard to drive nicely in a little pulsar or whatever for 20mins during your test. That person can then jump behing the wheel of basically any car he chooses and burn of down the street. This person could be driving a 73 corrola or an AU XR8. The point here is that our young drivers are 'encouraged' to have 120 hours practice and take formal lessons. There are no regulations forcing young drivers to recieve adeqate instruction. Here lies the problem. The fact that a young person can get there license without adequate supervised driving is scary.

For the record im 19 and drive an EF XR8. i had probably double the recomended driving practice and feel comfortable driving an 8. Instead of policing those who drive V8's they should be making it mandatory for new drivers to be prepared for anything that lies ahead.
Keldo.

You raise some very good points Keldo, I gave my twin 20 yo sons well in excess of the recommended 120 hours, and believe me they had good quality training and not just training to pass a test, I am talking about all the good defensive stuff, but it didn't stop them from being d!ckheads, one has lost his licence 3 times, but no prangs, the other has lost his licence once, but 2 prangs, but relatively minor.

I threw my hands in the air, to say I was exceptionally disappointed would be an under-statement, so I refer you back to my post at the bottom of page 2 on this thread about risk taking behavouir

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

Dear oh dear, here we go again. I am going to try to stay out of this one, but to correct this statement.This law has been around since the late '80's or early '90's, so there is no point blaming the current Government. I was a round when it was introduced if you want to argue the point with me on this.

The law was introduced around the same time as the 260cc restriction on motorbike P & L plate riders.

Uh-huh, and the road toll still hasn't changed, the laws haven't adapted to suit the safer and albiet more powerful cars of today. So, the government saying they're going to 'get tough' on it is swinging in the dark IMO.

[Pilch]

and if ever the police decided to enforce the power/weight laws than this thread would be a good starting point to track down the law breakers.

There are a few things that annoy me, first is that an old skool falcon with anything bigger than a 351 is deemed to powerful, yet if you compare say, a XA 351 and BA 4.0L in standard form (which is the way they should be compared) the BA will win hands down!!!

Second, as mentioned already is that it isn't enforced whatsoever! The cops won't enforce it until you break the law or are driving an obviously unroadworthy car, so really they should just remove the rule until they are prepared to enforce it.

oh, and cops targeting V8's with P's........ complete crap, i drove a V8 falcon throughout my P's and only got pulled up once ('coz vic roads had my car down as green when it is actually red). they thought i'd stolen it : it's got more to do with luck or having it lowered 50mm off the ground or something that is visually notable.

shane3, to jump on a 750cc motorbike requires you to go through L's and P's just like a car, and the power restrictions are enforced to a greater degree from what I have seen. and many production cars out their are now capable of reaching 300km/h also, so bikes are no worse!

[DJM83]

thought id better add my 2 bobs worth on my way home from work one day i seen a m8 from skool he was madly involved in 1970's citroens anyway he had just finished a rebuild etc i got up behind him (in my 85 XF ghia EFI 6 with a decent exhaust) and stupidily enuff we started a race we were side by side for a while and i pulled in front to my a horror a highway patrol car pulled out and flagged us both to the side of the road he went to my m8 first then me i sat in my car waiting for the cop after he had seen my m8 (almost 10mins) i got a $1515 fine 6 points and 6mths suspension for going 114kmh in a 60 zone and he got $235 fine and 1 point we were both on green p's and never lost his license and was next to me wen we got caught admittadly i was on the wrong side of the rd closest to the cop car
BTW do we have an police officers on this site to add their bit?

[FreezeR]

I drive an XR6T atm on my "P's". I heard all you get is a $50 fine and no demerit points, thats probably why the law gets abused by so many "P" platers.

My first car which was a VR Ute had 215 rwkw and was a v8 (very loud due to stage 3 cam) i only got pulled over once. All the policeman wanted to do is to check out my car coz he liked the look of it. It was great!

[XR-ENVI]

speed cameras are off the subject but why do people complain about speed cameras? yeah the government is making millions out of them, so what, so they should, you speed you give them the money. Easy fixed......stick to the speed limit.

[Supa R00]

One thing i wanna know is How the hell can all u guys afford these cars at 19,20 years old!?!?! BA GT's, XR8's, XR6 & T's... im 18 and could barely afford to pay for my ed xr6 working p/t and going to uni...... sheesh some ppl have too much money!!

[kiwikid]

i have a ford escort that can get off the speedo, i had a sigma that even my mum could also get off the clock . 99% of cars can get enough speed up to do a shitload of damage....

i have a 351c ZC in my shed gathering dust its been bored out with GT manifolds, forged flat top pistons, rough cam, 302 heads, 750 holley, c10, 9 inch, 2.75" exhaust etc..i cant drive it coz its "too powerful" for a P-plater yet (it was my dads he passed it down to me, since then i have done more mods) i drove it the day i got my L's and did ever since...

on my L's i had over 500hours driving experience, numerious defencive driving courses, many dirt track trial & rally experiences, many hours of thrashing a padock bomb..... not all us youngin's are as bad as the government thinks!

im not stupid if i want to have fun in a car im not going to do it on the roads, i use escort most weekends for club compitions and that gets rid of my need to go sideways or drop skids etc....

and for the record more P-platers crash/die/cause serious harm in 4cylinder shitboxes than high performance cars....

[Feathers]

I found with the people I know, that the best way to stop them getting cars they couldn't handle was that their parents said 'no'.
There was no way my parents would have let me get a performance vehcle when I first got my licence, even if I could have afforded it myself.
I'm not on my P's anymore, but my father would never have allowed me to get the XR6 if he didn't think I was mature enough to be responsible with it.
You might be able to fool a driving instructor/assessor when you go for your licence, but parents know what their kids are like.
Personally I work on the basis of,
* I like having full use of all my limbs, senses and mental faculties.
* I paid a hell of a lot of money for my car, and it took a lot of time to save it, so I'd like to keep it in near perfect condition for as long as possible
* I like having all 12 points on my licence

[Yagz]

Be thankful having 12 points Feathers. Here in VIC, we get 5 points on our P's, thats 5 points during the whole 3 year probationary period.

We can lose our license for a year, if we get done for doing 110 in a 100 zone, and then get done for having no P plates displayed.

That's over a 3 year period..

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by Yagz

Be thankful having 12 points Feathers. Here in VIC, we get 5 points on our P's, thats 5 points during the whole 3 year probationary period.

We can lose our license for a year, if we get done for doing 110 in a 100 zone, and then get done for having no P plates displayed.

That's over a 3 year period..

well its been 6 years since i had my P's but when i did i had 12 points, not 5.
probably changed though like everything else?

[Yagz]

Originally Posted by davway

well its been 6 years since i had my P's but when i did i had 12 points, not 5.
probably changed though like everything else?

You betcha!

I got pulled up for 101 in a 90 zone, on a country road out on the peninsula, and i only have 2 points left, as my last offence was a 3 pointer.

If i get caught again, doing say, 65 in a 60 zone, bye bye license.

[XR8GRL]

Originally Posted by XR-ENVI

speed cameras are off the subject but why do people complain about speed cameras? yeah the government is making millions out of them, so what, so they should, you speed you give them the money. Easy fixed......stick to the speed limit.

Well when you get nabbed for 5 or under k's, I call it revenue raising..

and sometimes in certain spots, it is a tad hard to stick exactly to the speed limit.

[Feathers]

I'm no longer on my P's.
I got my full licence the month before NSW brought in the graduated licencing program.

[santoitaliano]

all that has to be done is compare victoria's road toll to all the others...

every car has the potential to reach well over the speed limit..

[FRDMSL]

im 20 and drive a 351 XE fairmont, spent the last year rebuilding it. the rule IMO is rediculous, its not over the power to weight but because of the size of the engine its on the restricted list. its all about how u drive. also im not going to waste my cash getting some POS 3 year runaround when i can have something decent

[santoitaliano]

oh and the other interesting fact was watching some news/current affair program the other day where victoria's revenue from speed cameras is so extravagant at $351mil i think it was which compares to sydney's 81mil i think (i might be wrong but you get the idea) and sydney has more cars on the road!

[philstoj]

Originally Posted by XR-ENVI

speed cameras are off the subject but why do people complain about speed cameras? yeah the government is making millions out of them, so what, so they should, you speed you give them the money. Easy fixed......stick to the speed limit.

Yeah well that always dont work, sticking to the speed limit, ask all the people who dont speed, and that pay fines regularly.. the mums and grannies who putt their little puss boxes around at under the speed limit getting fines..
This is the biggest con job on the people here in this country, all these millions are going where? not anywhere to help sort out this big mess out, not fixing our shit and dangerous roads, or driver education...
I bet youd be the first one to whinge if you got busted doing 5 kms over the limit...

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FreezeR

I drive an XR6T atm on my "P's". I heard all you get is a $50 fine and no demerit points, thats probably why the law gets abused by so many "P" platers.

I am pretty sure it is either $350 or $500 and 3 points, a mate of my young blokes got done in a VS GTS Commodore.

[mcflux]

Meanwhile a P-plater mate of mine told me two scary things he did last weekend...

1) Melbourne (city) to Morwell (150km away) in 50 minutes. This was between 2-3am in the morning...

2) He and a mate of his were doing some "weaving" at about 130kph down a 60kph street. Copper sitting in the side street couldn't take a reading with his speed gun (he was there to clock people doing 65 and got surprised by these two guys), so he got out & chased them down. When my mate got pulled up, the cop couldn't do him for anything, and my mate made the most of it.

For point 2, I don't understand why the cop didn't do him for negligent driving? Even if he didn't get clocked doing more than double the limit, surely he could get done for dangerous driving, which is up to the cop's judgement?

He's not full of it either, he has a real chip on his shoulder about cops (has fines & canaries to prove it... and this latest cop tried to canary him but couldn't find anything wrong with the car, since he had just gotten it roadworthied - properly - because of a previous canary), and is well known by the local cops...

His car is well within the power to weight ratio. :

-Dave-

[DivHunter]

and watching coppers do 80 in a 40 school zone just rubs me the wrong way, and yes it was an emergency.... bakery stop.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by santoitaliano

all that has to be done is compare victoria's road toll to all the others...

every car has the potential to reach well over the speed limit..

I will get really controversial here as I have done on other threads, and I expect an outrage at my post, but I don't care, not only am I a defensive driver trainer, I also spent 14 years with an emergency service pulling dead or near dead bodies from car wrecks on the side of the road mostly late at night or early morning.

BUT I think all cars should be speed limited to 120 km/h.

Righto boys go for it, shoot me down in flames, but in doing so, give me ONE valid reason for being able to do over 120km/h (BTW, the speed limit when overtaking is the posted speed limit - no tolerances, in fact Police will target people who are overtaking)

[DivHunter]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

I will get really controversial here as I have done on other threads, and I expect an outrage at my post, but I don't care, not only am I a defensive driver trainer, I also spent 14 years with an emergency service pulling dead or near dead bodies from car wrecks on the side of the road mostly late at night or early morning.

BUT I think all cars should be speed limited to 120 km/h.

Righto boys go for it, shoot me down in flames, but in doing so, give me ONE valid reason for being able to do over 120km/h (BTW, the speed limit when overtaking is the posted speed limit - no tolerances, in fact Police will target people who are overtaking)

There is no reason, manufacturers just will not do it. Simple.

[Trevor 57]

... some news/current affair program the other day where victoria's revenue from speed cameras is so extravagant at $351mil i think it was which compares to sydney's 81mil i think (i might be wrong but you get the idea) and sydney has more cars on the road!

And you blokes keep paying 'em, slow down I reckon. I can't remember the last time I paid one, and I was a professional driver.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Fairmont99

There is no reason, manufacturers just will not do it. Simple.

If they are forced to (by Legislation or Australian Design Rules (ADR's)), like seatblets, shatter proof glass, crash testing, etc, etc then they would have to.

[DivHunter]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

If they are forced to (by Legislation or Australian Design Rules (ADR's)), like seatblets, shatter proof glass, crash testing, etc, etc then they would have to.

There are too many complications and billions of dollars to lose. There goes the entire performance and import/export vehicle market.

[xdc351]

How would you stop the cars built prior to the ADR change from exceeding 120kmh? How does that stop people doing 120kmh in a 40 zone? How does ithelp the economy when everyone stops buying performance cars to use on race tracks?

I can go on forever, 120kmh is not going to happen. Ever.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Fairmont99

There are too many complications and billions of dollars to lose. There goes the entire performance and import/export vehicle market.

If they are serious about it, they can do it, don't foget back to the early '70's (yes, I was around then and driving) when the Government forced the big 3 (Chysler, Ford & GMH) to stop producing 'supercars', which BTW were nothing compared to the standard cars of today, but....