Realising the importance of health insurance...a little too late.

[jimmyxr6t04]

Originally Posted by MAD

But if you earn a lot more, then your cost of insurance is easily paid by the tax deduction. so it end sup being a no cost option to have Private insurance.
Why should someone earning big bucks have better healthcare than the poorest of the poor?

How so? My medicare levy was over $1500 this year. My private health insurance is between 2-3k per year... So, all i actually saved was about $1000 on medicare levy surcharge. So without private health i would pay about $2500 to medicare. With it, i pay $1500. I'm still out of pocket $4000+ per year between medicare and private health.

Add the wifes medicare levy of about $800, and we're paying well over 5k for medicare and private health...

There's not much of a tax saving, and certainly no tax deduction...

[MAD]

Yes but if you're earning enough that your surcharge was going to be 3k, then your net surcharge bill will be zero.
I wasn't having a dig at anyone just the system.

[DJL351]

I understand both sides. Always dead against it, but have in recent times made a couple of large claims that have in my mind made the cost worth it.

Misses was put in to King Eddy (KEMH) here in Perth after her blood pressure went stupid. KEMH is a public baby/birthing hospital.
We were at about 28 weeks - their suggestion - C section now. Lucky we had our own OB, spoke to him and he then told the hospital to wait. Sure enough, things settled and she was allowed home after a week of rest.

Baby reaches full term and the whole labor process starts. - Back to KEMH becuase the misses didn't fit the BMI index for any other hospital. Stuck in this little room and left alone; some quack walks in after 3 hours and says, this is taking too long, we'll have to induce. Okay? Walks out and is not seen again. Nurse walks in and give her a too high dose of the inducing drug. Full on contractions start and she is no where near 'ready'. Nurse leaves and does not return for 40 + minutes.
Attempts to locate baby's heart rate fail - panic sets in so she is given some gas. Heart rate is finally located another 2 hours later with an internal probe. Each contaction sees the heart rate drop in to the low teens. - Now I'm starting to worry.
I ask for our OB to be phoned. - Turns out they do not allow him to practise in the hospital. He is able to assist via the phone.
I then ask for a doctor and get told that it is shift change time - one will be in shortly. I suggest that not enough is being done and that the babys heart rate is too low. I get told to mind my own; what would I know etc. Another hour passes and finally a quack comes in. 30 seconds and he walks out again. (nothing said to us at all - not even Hi)
Another 40 minutes pass and another doctor walks in, this one is a female and she talks to us for about 5 minutes, looks at all the charts etc and then says that she will be back. 30 minutes later we're off for a c section.

Our boy is then devilered via emergency C section and it takes them close to 10 minutes to get him going. (major tears and panic at that point).
He starts crying and such so we're happy enough at that point, he is handed to us and the whole left side of his face/head is black and blue. - It turns out he got stuck and every contraction was pushing his head in to her pelvis and that as little as another 30 minutes would have most likely been 'bad'.

Anyway, back in the room, I get told to POQ home (it was 2am), so I leave them in the 'care' of the staff on the ward. The boy starts coughing and choking about an hour later, the boss was stuck flat on her back and he was out of her reach. The staff had not given her the call bell so she had to scream to try and get someone to come. At which point she gave up and put her self at risk, rolled over and pulled him towards her and then rolled him to his side.
8am that morning we were on the phone trying to get her moved - HBF said yep, no prob and she was transfered via Ambo that day to Armadale's private 'section'.
She spent a week there and the treatment was 1000% better. The cost to us was about $40 a night if I stayed.

While I understand this might not be 'the norm' experience - it was enough to turn me off the public system.
I have complete respect for the staff, but there are too few looking after too many (a times) and when you have a sick family member in pain and you are waiting and waiting - you think a lot.

For me now, private health is a must. If I never have to use/claim on it again, I'll be more than happy.

p.s. - Sorry for the long post.

[Polyal]

DL351..I was the same, I stayed next to my wife in hospital (they gave me a bed) and fed me for $40 per night...to good, our own room too.

[jimmyxr6t04]

Originally Posted by MAD

Yes but if you're earning enough that your surcharge was going to be 3k, then your net surcharge bill will be zero.
I wasn't having a dig at anyone just the system.

Ah ok, i know what you mean now.. So those on 300k+ would essentially get private health for free when they are exempt from the surcharge..

[StrokedXT]

Originally Posted by MAD

But if you earn a lot more, then your cost of insurance is easily paid by the tax deduction. so it end sup being a no cost option to have Private insurance.
Why should someone earning big bucks have better healthcare than the poorest of the poor?

That's right as far as the income thing goes, that's why it works for my family.

[blueprint babe]

Im a dental assistant - been in the industry for 11.5 years.
Ive worked with general dentists and for the past 12 months a specialist dentist (prosthodontist).
The overheads in dentistry are insane. Put the word "dental" in front of something and it quadruples in price.
When you take in to account the price of rent, electricity, equipment costs, stock costs, wages, laborotory fees and then the actual labour that the dentist or specialist is doing, its no wonder the fees are so high.
For example: the specialist I work with is a prosthodontist (specialist in all things "fake", crowns, bridges, dentures, veneers etc) - typical cost for a crown on 1 tooth is broken down like this.
Consultation: $250 for an hour, $50 per xray
Letter back to referring dentist: 45-60 minutes, no charge
Second consultation: $300 for 45 minutes which includes photos (11 shots of face and inside mouth) and 2 diagnostic models taken of teeth. Further discussion of what needs to be done.
Letter to patient outlining treatment plan and costs: 1-2 hours for a simple treatment plan, 8-10 hours for something more complicated.
Appointment for core of crown: $400 for 1 hour, removal of existing filling, replace with new core (new filling)
Appointment for prep of tooth for crown: 2 hours, no charge. Tooth is prepped (drilled) down to new shape. Impression taken of new shape. Temporary crown is made and cemented onto tooth with temporary cement.
Appointment for issue of new crown: 45 minutes. $2500. Remove temp crown, fit permanant crown. Cement with permanent cement.
Appointment for review of crown: 30 minutes, no charge.
Letter back to referring dentist: no charge, 1 hour
Tottal cost= $3500. Health fund will refund approximately $800 depending on level of cover and which health fund.
So for approx 9-10 hours of work = $3500, (3500 divided by 9 = $389.00 an hour)
Minus lab fees (approx $600), wages, rent, stock, equipment etc.
Most general dentists charge $400 + an hour, specilaist dentists "should" be approximately $600-700 an hour.
The specialist I work for has studied for 9 years (1 year science, 4 years dentistry, 4 years prosthodontics) all whilst being unpaid.
Yep its an expensive industry but so are mechanics, plasterers, plumbers etc (and I can comment because OH is a plasterer)

And to those that say they will just wait and get all there teeth pulled out and get dentures - I hope you dont enjoy eating steak, apples or anything "tough" because once your natural teeth are gone and dentures are in place you'll never be able to chew properly again.

Good luck to the OP about your wisdom teeth - I had all 4 out with an oral surgeon. I was awake whilst he pulled them out, not an issue and Im glad the annoying buggars have gone!

[Fiesta God]

Got a family member who had a heart attack.

Turned out he needed a special "stent" put in one of his arteries ...

Only problem was that this stent wasn't available in Australia. In fact, they didn't make it anywhere in the world, except on special order.

Special order from the US, flying it out to Australia, surgeon etc. all done privately in Melbourne.

Total cost = $78k.

Total cost that this guy ended up paying? $1050.


If you can afford it then it's worth it IMO. You can stick the money in a savings account, but you might have a "big" event after only 18 months of savings, and then you're left with the bill ...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Fiesta God

Got a family member who had a heart attack.

Turned out he needed a special "stent" put in one of his arteries ...

Only problem was that this stent wasn't available in Australia. In fact, they didn't make it anywhere in the world, except on special order.

Special order from the US, flying it out to Australia, surgeon etc. all done privately in Melbourne.

Total cost = $78k.

Total cost that this guy ended up paying? $1050.


If you can afford it then it's worth it IMO. You can stick the money in a savings account, but you might have a "big" event after only 18 months of savings, and then you're left with the bill ...

Pretty much sums it up. How many people do we know are fit and strong all of a sudden go to the doc for something minor and find they have serious internal issues?

Weighing up the costs vs benefits is tough as our health is ever-changing and cannot be predicted or accounted for in the future.

I'm curious, those who don't have it, do you drive around with full insurance or only 3rd party?

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Pretty much sums it up. How many people do we know are fit and strong all of a sudden go to the doc for something minor and find they have serious internal issues?

Weighing up the costs vs benefits is tough as our health is ever-changing and cannot be predicted or accounted for in the future.

I'm curious, those who don't have it, do you drive around with full insurance or only 3rd party?

Haha, good point. My car isn't insured at all, it just sits in the driveway and doesn't get driven...the car that does get driven is Full Comp.

I find it quite coincidental that you should ask that question...my SIL pulsar was written off yesterday on Sydney Rd in Melbourne after a P plater (sadly in a Ford), ran up the rear of the car behind them, flinging the middle car into the rear end of my SIL's car. My brother in passenger side, having just had a kidney transplant goes troppo...the guy in the car behind him, had his pregnant wife in the car - the guy who caused all the damage...no insurance...starts blaming the guy in the middle. My brother said, I hope you've got some money then, because this car's written off...and by the look of it, that one too (pointing at the middle car)...he clammed up very quickly.

They were stationary for around ten seconds (in a 40k zone apparently) before they were hit by him...I don't know what he was doing...but what's the odds off running into the rear end of a car and causing an accident involving a pregnant woman AND a transplant recipient...? Not that young kids lucky day...

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by ZA-289

I believe in extras cover only. covers most things you need. If your are seriously ill and need hospital then its free anyway!

same!
i got all 4 wisdom teeth removed at the dentist's for under $500.
i do get screwed by the Medicare Levy Surcharge though.
iv looked at a few private covers that will help me beat the surcharge, but most didnt seem to give me the same extra covers that i want.

[z80]

If you have to buy health insurance then at least don't get sucked into all the private room crap, along with all the extra premiums.

We had all that nonsense, the wife had three kids over a ten year period.

Every single time, in the private hospital, the response was the same..

"Yes we know you are covered for a private room, but there are none available"

So she always had a room with at least 4 others.

Recently we dropped it to the absolute bare minimum...why?

The dental gap is stupid...pay 300 and get 60 back.

If you want a private room, insure yourself for the cheapest room and pay CASH difference if they can upgrade you.



By the way...all this nonsense about waiting times in public hospitals etc...



If you offer CASH, you will get in to any hospital you please.

It's only if you want the FREE health care that you have to wait.


Dentists? Rip offs.

Check your bill before you leave, I did once and there was $7 for nutrition advice on wife's bill...



WTF? I said...since when do they offer that?


She replied that..." Oh yeah, he told me that probably should stop having sugar in my coffee"


How's that for a scam?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Haha, good point. My car isn't insured at all, it just sits in the driveway and doesn't get driven...the car that does get driven is Full Comp.

I find it quite coincidental that you should ask that question...my SIL pulsar was written off yesterday on Sydney Rd in Melbourne after a P plater (sadly in a Ford), ran up the rear of the car behind them, flinging the middle car into the rear end of my SIL's car. My brother in passenger side, having just had a kidney transplant goes troppo...the guy in the car behind him, had his pregnant wife in the car - the guy who caused all the damage...no insurance...starts blaming the guy in the middle. My brother said, I hope you've got some money then, because this car's written off...and by the look of it, that one too (pointing at the middle car)...he clammed up very quickly.

They were stationary for around ten seconds (in a 40k zone apparently) before they were hit by him...I don't know what he was doing...but what's the odds off running into the rear end of a car and causing an accident involving a pregnant woman AND a transplant recipient...? Not that young kids lucky day...

i cringe at the thought of uninsured crashes . i believe full comprehensive insurance should be compulsory . i think its not the front two cars and occupants lucky day . sorry to hear .

[StrokedXT]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i cringe at the thought of uninsured crashes . i believe full comprehensive insurance should be compulsory . i think its not the front two cars and occupants lucky day . sorry to hear .

Why?

As long as they have insurance they will be sorted.

[BA Baracus]

Public health system labels some surgeries elective that definitely should not be and the waiting list can be extreme. I completely ruptured disc in my back (l5/s1) and suffered in extreme pain stuck in bed for close on 6 months as the surgery required to rectify is deemed elective and public waiting list is 3-5 years. Cost to go private without insurance was in region of 30k. Have private cover now, suffering aside the loss of income in the time I was stuck in bed would of paid private insurance premiums for the whole family for the rest of our lives.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I'm curious, those who don't have it, do you drive around with full insurance or only 3rd party?

Full insurance because I can't replace $26K worth of car at the drop of a hat. It came in handy when I totalled my car in Feb.

I'm 19, chances of totalling the car is higher than having a heart attack or some other serious medical condition.

Do you all have life insurance, funeral cover as well? What if you suddenly died at work in an accident and your stay at home wife couldn't afford the repayments on the mortgage and your funeral expenses?

What about crimsafe windows on your daughters house? Just in case someone breaks into your house and her normal security screens don't work.

Are you all on Telstra's NextG network? What happens if you're in an emergency and need to use the phone but theres no Vodafone reception?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Full insurance because I can't replace $26K worth of car at the drop of a hat. It came in handy when I totalled my car in Feb.

I'm 19, chances of totalling the car is higher than having a heart attack or some other serious medical condition.

Do you all have life insurance, funeral cover as well? What if you suddenly died at work in an accident and your stay at home wife couldn't afford the repayments on the mortgage and your funeral expenses?

What about crimsafe windows on your daughters house? Just in case someone breaks into your house and her normal security screens don't work.

Are you all on Telstra's NextG network? What happens if you're in an emergency and need to use the phone but theres no Vodafone reception?

you are right in what you say , damo . but what if you fall off your sketeboard and rupture your kneecap . or back . it might not happen , but you dont have to be old to get injured . and heps of people have heart attacks in there 20's for various reasons .

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Are you all on Telstra's NextG network? What happens if you're in an emergency and need to use the phone but theres no Vodafone reception?

There is an emergency number if you have no service at all...calling 112 will work from ALL mobile phones regardless of carrier and regardless of coverage...

Not many people are aware of it though apparently...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

There is an emergency number if you have no service at all...calling 112 will work from ALL mobile phones regardless of carrier and regardless of coverage...

Not many people are aware of it though apparently...

Except Telstra NextG (which is the only provider in my area) because your phone might not have the hardware for the 850mhz network.

My parents had the highest private health care cover when I was born and they still had to pay for the gynaecologist, had to share a ward with 4 other women.

Since then we haven't had private cover.

Everyone thinks that Australia has a good health care system then they compare it to America, but everyone here seems to have the assumption you need private health care cover? Why hate on America's system then?

Just because something is free (our public health care system) doesn't mean its good, when was the last time any of you had dealt with Sunshine public hospital?

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

But when needed though ... car insurance covers you.

When needed ... private health doesn't cover you at all ... and there's still a massive GAP that you have to pay out of your own pocket ... no matter what ... no use being covered ... you pay sooo much for the premium ... and you still have to cough up the $$$.

After looking at it ... and doing the sums ... private health just bleeds you dry. You could have saved the money you have spent on the insurance ... and used it for that "rainy day" when it is needed ... and still be ahead.

Health Insurance is the biggest rort in the world. They take, take and take money from you, increasing premiums and when you make a claim, they give you back SFA. I hate private health insurance. It's dead money.

[BA Baracus]

I did my back at 30 and was pretty much otherwise entirely healthy. At the time I would of swapped a 26k car just to have it fixed, would forget about loosing a car pretty quickly and move on but by not having surgery I've got sciatic pain for the rest of my life. After my experience if I couldn't afford both I'd uninsure the car.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Except Telstra NextG (which is the only provider in my area) because your phone might not have the hardware for the 850mhz network.

Don't even need a sim card in the phone Damo...or for the keypad to be unlocked...and any post 2002 phone has the capability (some good one's before hand also had it...


I agree with some of the previous sentiments that if getting private health insurance that extras cover is the way to go, if I'm in hospital, I'm not normally there because I want to be, but more because I have to be...have checked out the figures and it's still pretty pricy, but if anyone else in the family needs their wisdoms out...2900 covered, no gap payments...seems pretty good to me...I guess at the end of the day, if I'm paying for it for a reason, I may as well make the time and use it...

As far as comparing it to America's healthcare system, have you seen the doco "Sicko"? Big eye opener...and quite sad...

[JG65TE]

I got it and went to the doc coz of a pretty bad m/c accident , they send me to a 3 week pain management course , it was about 6 grand and my heatlh insurance covered every cent, will never leave em.

[kaniSS]

Had emergency work done on a tooth I paid $570 and my health insurrer gave me $70 back. They are a rip.

I pay $240 per months for myself my son and wife and they don't pay you much when you need to collect.

[TheSneakiness]

Had a checkup at the dentist about 3 months ago with my wife and thought this should be anymore than about $60 for the both of us, it's just a bloody checkup for crying out loud.

$130 each later after about 5 minutes in the chair each and a recommendation for some fillings. Insurance only covered 50% and that was on a corporate plan.

Dentists = Ripoffs and no other argument is going to change my view.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Had a checkup at the dentist about 3 months ago with my wife and thought this should be anymore than about $60 for the both of us, it's just a bloody checkup for crying out loud.

$130 each later after about 5 minutes in the chair each and a recommendation for some fillings. Insurance only covered 50% and that was on a corporate plan.

Dentists = Ripoffs and no other argument is going to change my view.

They are expensive, but the cost of getting there (and staying there) is what adds up.

I'm sure their education and equipment isn't cheap as well as keeping up with new technologies etc etc etc.

Having said that...... when I got my 4 wisdom teeth pulled and braces my dentist had a fully automated massage chair (was VERY expensive) and a flat screen TV hanging on the wall (when they first came out and cost 15-20k) in the waiting room.

Oh... while working on me he needed to take an urgent call from the company that was building his new boat (to order).

No kidding...

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

They are expensive, but the cost of getting there (and staying there) is what adds up.

I'm sure their education and equipment isn't cheap as well as keeping up with new technologies etc etc etc.

theres no denying that, but then shouldnt that stand for anyone thats gone to UNI for an education? should they all charge through the ***?
same goes for accountants.
i did my tax and for 10mins, cost me $130.. x that by how many people per day that they see, and its a LOT of money.

back on topic...

i did a few quotes to get enough cover to beat the surcharge, and its about $1k. and thats just cover for a private bed...
not worth it. ill stick with my extras that cover everything that i need.

i also have full comp car insurance and income protection.

[StrokedXT]

Originally Posted by JamesR

theres no denying that, but then shouldnt that stand for anyone thats gone to UNI for an education? should they all charge through the ***?
same goes for accountants.
i did my tax and for 10mins, cost me $130.. x that by how many people per day that they see, and its a LOT of money.

back on topic...

i did a few quotes to get enough cover to beat the surcharge, and its about $1k. and thats just cover for a private bed...
not worth it. ill stick with my extras that cover everything that i need.

i also have full comp car insurance and income protection.

Do you do income protection through your super?

This whole argument boils down to this - high income earner it more than pays for itself, if you are at the lower end of the scale make the call based on what you need.

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by StrokedXT

Do you do income protection through your super?

no, but it is paid by work.
it covers emergency dental, emergency transport costs, and payments for upto 2 years if i cant return to work.

[SEZ213]

Well, it's done, and dusted...hopefully, fingers crossed.

I have intermittent feeling in my chin, bottom lip and bottom teeth, but for the most part it's numb and no feeling at all...back to the surgeon in a two weeks to make sure it's all good to go. He did tell me there was a possibility the nerve would be damaged because it was too close to the root, as the numbness should be gone by now (according to his nurse)...fingers crossed it's just bruised and it will go away shortly.

But I have decided since this debacle that extras cover is the next purchase, just for my own piece of mind, and then a dentist that has 'no gap' payments required to make sure they stay tip top

edit: For the record, the surgeon was obnoxious, didn't come and see me after the surgery to let me know what he'd done (despite telling me he would let me know if he couldn't get all the root out from the nerve). The anesthetist though, absolutely smashing job. He came and checked up on me afterwards, made sure I was feeling okay, and both he and his nurse really looked after me (I was almost out by the time I hit the surgery)...