drive.com.au at it again!

[Smoked]

So they actually published this one? Well, last time I ever listen to anuthing from Drive.a.Holden.com

[PepeLePew]

The internet is a wonderful place in the year 2000+ where we can all share our views with all sorts of people who we wouldnt normally interact with.

Its a shame that a crap article has to lead to crap shitefights on two different forums.

The article doesnt deserve that sort of recognition.

What is deserves is everyone who has anything in their hearts for the Australian automotive product to get onto drive.com.au and cane them for cheap amateurish journalism. Perhaps next time they will grace us with something that ought to issue from professional motor noters.

[FLYXR6]

Pepe is right. This sort of jurno crap doesn't deserve the attetion it is getting (yes i know i am a contributor). Drive should be ashamed to allow themselves to be bought into an opinion. Really all that it proves is that Drive.crap.au can not be trusted to give an unbiased total review of a car.

As was said before if you want a real review........ Go and test drive one yourself!!!

[Aeron]

Another issue with the XR8 (and Falcons in general) is the overly sensitive steering. Ford deliberately wanted to inject a sharp, responsive feel into its steering, particularly at low speeds. The downside is that it makes the steering too sensitive at freeway speeds and the XR8 starts to feel bigger and heavier than it is. The grip is there by virtue of great tyres but the suspension and steering combined don't inspire confidence.

I drive a BA XR and have never found it a problem. So they are just talking crap.

The interior is roomy (although the Commodore has more legroom in the rear) and the seats are comfortable but the driver's seat feels too high.

Too high!?!?! Then adjust the thing you idiots!! More of them just talking crap.

So, are Holden paying them................sorry, how much are Holden paying them??

[AUIII XR8 MAN]

Originally Posted by Aeron

So, are Holden paying them................sorry, how much are Holden paying them??

About 99 million

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by stevz

The launch of the VE is a major milestone for the auto industry here.

Correction: for Holden

Its the first time in a long time Holden have actually designed almost their whole own car.

[blackahcdx]

do u ppl seriously think that manurfacturers would pay motoring writers to praise their products if they weren't terribly good?

hmmmmm i'm not sure

[ltd]

My sister is an editor of a rather large company that houses 6 womens magazines and I can assure you, manufacturers pay big dollars for favourable reviews. It is part and parcel of marketing. The crap article in question is one big advertisement for Holden and it is less subtle than most in the sense that it tries to rubbish the opposition. In any business large or small, rubbishing the opposition is a sign of desperation, and customers seldomly respond favourably to it - customers that are not dumb enough to fall for it that is (now's a good time for a shout out to vecommo on LS1 who likes to quote people from ford forums).

I know it might seem hard to believe, but how many other products have you read about being the best thing ever, only to have said company go bust six months down the track. I recall reading an article in a lifestyle magazine proclaiming Chris marshall to be a wonderful, ethical businessman. Two months later he had creditors and angry customers chasing him for money.

But I digress, as Holden buy advertising space in newspapers and magazines you can be assured that Holden have paid for this article amongst many others in the drive "VE scratch and sniff sealed section" of the drive website, and as such I will endeavour to get some industry estimates of what they did pay.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by ltd

My sister is an editor of a rather large company that houses 6 womens magazines and I can assure you, manufacturers pay big dollars for favourable reviews. It is part and parcel of marketing. The crap article in question is one big advertisement for Holden and it is less subtle than most in the sense that it tries to rubbish the opposition. In any business large or small, rubbishing the opposition is a sign of desperation, and customers seldomly respond favourably to it - customers that are not dumb enough to fall for it that is (now's a good time for a shout out to vecommo on LS1 who likes to quote people from ford forums).

I know it might seem hard to believe, but how many other products have you read about being the best thing ever, only to have said company go bust six months down the track. I recall reading an article in a lifestyle magazine proclaiming Chris marshall to be a wonderful, ethical businessman. Two months later he had creditors and angry customers chasing him for money.

But I digress, as Holden buy advertising space in newspapers and magazines you can be assured that Holden have paid for this article amongst many others in the drive "VE scratch and sniff sealed section" of the drive website, and as such I will endeavour to get some industry estimates of what they did pay.

LTD, why don't you just give up while you're behind? I think most mature and level headed people here are in stitches of laughter at your ridiculous suggestions. The Ford Aus executives are probably even laughing at you.
You are now stooping down to using totally irrelevant references to back up your flawed argument, such as "my sister is this and she said that", or "I read an article about this businessman".
If manufacturers pay for favourable reviews, then how would you explain all the glowing reviews of the Falcon during the BA era, or does it conveniently not apply in this case? Why are all the drive.com.au webpages plastered with Ford advertisements?
You say that "rubbishing the opposition is a sign of desperation", well what have you done in 90% of your posts here but rubbish the opposition? Seeing the lengths you have gone to trying to prove your ridiculous argument here is a prime example of your desperation.
As SSBUB said earlier, you have got a huge chip on your shoulder which you really need to get over.
I doubt that you even owned this so called Caprice you keep talking about, for all we know it could be a fabricated story in order to seek attention. I mean, why would a one-eyed brand bigot like you even walk into the opposition's dealership?
And you will "endeavour to get some industry estimate of what they did pay". How sad is that, you probably have no life so you need to do something stupid and senseless like this to fill in the time.
You have been proven wrong on a number of occasions in various threads which just goes to show that your comments are misinformed and hold no credibility.
You are doing your fellow Ford fans no favours by posting the crap that you are, in fact you are making them look like idiots.

Enough said, I rest my case.

[ltd]

Stevz why don't you go home and tell your mother she wants you. You continue to wax idiotic by repeating what has been legitimately noticed about your behaviour, and then throw the accusation back at anyone who has called you into question. This is your idea of a cohesive argument? Who's behind in here Stevz. Rather than proclaim that this is some kind of race and I am doing better than you, most people in this forum are smart enough to realise who is clutching at straws.

Not all of my posts are about rubbishing Holden; contrarily the majority of yours are about promoting Holden whilst rubbishing Ford. What are you doing on a ford website anyway. Morons like yourself get on to a ford website and do nothing but castigate those who don't agree with your point of view. What did you think; that there will be no bias in a forum dedicated to a brand that you have nothing but scorn for?
Do you expect anyone to see your point of view when you make a sweeping generalisation like “All the drive web pages plastered with ford advertisements” - who’s being desperate here.

Then you call into account my credibility, what about yours? I'll let your post history speak for your credibility or lack thereof. I have owned two caprices; I've got proof of it. I realise that you are probably a welfare recipient living in your parents’ garage trying to do a VN commodore up with midnight spares and thusly find it hard to believe that other people do spend money on things other than beer and gunja. Do you even bother to question your own motives as to what you are doing here? If you want to be a big hero on a website why don't you join a child’s online chat room where you can bully people as much as you like - or have you already been banned from those?

BTW, if I've got a chip on my shoulder then you must have a sand dune up your ***.
Enjoy mediocrity tosser.

[stevz]

Absolutely laughable. I hope you didn't have to work your pea brain too hard to come up with that pile of nonsense. LTD, you are a numbnut plain and simple. I have wasted enough energy arguing with you and I won't stoop down to your level by continuing it any further.

[new2ford]

I don't really want to buy into this but (in support of ltd) Wheels ran an editorial on the prevalence of cheque book journalism several months ago - when Hyundai did a release. Drive and its equivalents in other dailies and local papers are basically uncritical vehicles for manufacturers' press releases, no doubt swayed by how much is stuffed in the back pocket at the time. Stick to Wheels if you want something reasonably technically proficient and impartial. Or better still go to the Dog and Lemon Guide which describes the Commodore as the perfect car for a world with free car repairs and cheap petrol - and the Falcon as an impressive drive (but both brands having quality problems).

Incidentally Wheels still describes the Falcon as the best Australian car and I'm sure they weren't paid for that. I too come from a non-Ford background and I've owned two Holdens. That's why I now own a Ford.

Its really better if fans of various marques stick to their own forums. I do sometimes wonder why so many Holden and Toyo fans visit FF - is it secret envy?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by stevz

Absolutely laughable. I hope you didn't have to work your pea brain too hard to come up with that pile of nonsense. LTD, you are a numbnut plain and simple. I have wasted enough energy arguing with you and I won't stoop down to your level by continuing it any further.

stevz, you are a bogan plain and simple. You are also nothing more than twinkle toed child who tries to act tough behind a keyboard. You espouse nothing but bs to suit your own ill informed childish arguements and resent anyone who can counter with evidence. I don't however think any less of you; because frankly I never thought anything of you in the first place. Find another target scumbag, you're too dumb to know when you are wrong.

[Outbackjack]

Sheeesh, holden owners. Now I know why I bought my BF and not the poorly built SS. Go home holden stooges...... Korea isn't it, home that is.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by SunDrifter

^^^ Somebody buy this man a beer. I laughed when i saw some of these comments leveled against ltd. If you're going to try and bag somebody, at least do a little research, like slickholden does.

Thank you i guess. I try not to bag but i do try to research as much as i can so i never have to say something dum like "mines bigger then yours"

Originally Posted by Aeron

I drive a BA XR and have never found it a problem. So they are just talking crap.


Too high!?!?! Then adjust the thing you idiots!! More of them just talking crap.

So, are Holden paying them................sorry, how much are Holden paying them??

My brothers BA has a heavy steering the opposite.

Originally Posted by FLYXR6

I still to this day do not understand why people who adore holdens so much spend so much time in a ford website....... and then get upset when a holden biased article is flamed on said website.

As said before it was a badly conducted article. There were very little trip stats in the article ie fuel used to road conditions ( flat or hilly) for either car! Also my argument isn't that holdens were made to shine in the article, that i don't care it was that for a website that considers it self the forfront of automotive info on new models it was very poorly written. There was no fact involved, just alot of opinions. If i wanted to hear about opinions on new models i would head down to the local maccas at 2 in the morning and listen to all the "p" platers drivel. Instead we (drives and motor enthusiastes alike) want to read a clear and constructive article that shows both the weak and strong points of both cars, not " the falcons barely made it home so they must be crap".

I'll probably get flamed for this but yes the new SS-V suspension is far superiour to the fords, It should be its 4 years younger than it. But saying that a car that drifts in the rear is crap isn't a constructive comment. I like the fact that my rear end will step up when planting it on a hwy corner, it leads to a little oversteer which i like. See that was a personal thing. To say that because one car does it and another doesn't so the first must be **** isn't an comparison. when it comes to handling of a car you cannot compare the two, as different people have different tastes. Yes you can compare a car on price, features, acceleration, fuel usage and many others, but saying that a car is crap because the k n o b behind the wheel doesn't know how to operate the hoop with badge on it in front of him and plows into a clay mountain that by the looks of the damage in the pic would have flipped a 4wd isn't a constructive argument. The guys at drive would have been better calling it what it was a ROAD TRIP. No comparison between the cars should have been made by people who have no experience or knowledge on how to do so correctly.

As far as having a crack at someone for defending a ford...... well this is a ford site remember? Ford lovers hang here. Not holdens!!! and if you wish to go ahead and attack people (forum members) because they posted an opinion then we may as well get rid of freedom of speech and close this site down.


i pity the

We are all forum member first. And to be honest there is maybe more holden conversations here then anywhere lol. I come from a forum which is open, We talk about all Aussie cars and one thing i have noticed is a one sided conversation is poor. It's the different views and opinion that makes a conversation better.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by stevz

Absolutely laughable. I hope you didn't have to work your pea brain too hard to come up with that pile of nonsense. LTD, you are a numbnut plain and simple. I have wasted enough energy arguing with you and I won't stoop down to your level by continuing it any further.

Are you still here? Bagging out forum members who often give a lot to this forum in the way of advice and information wont get you very far here.

[FLYXR6]

Yeah slick i agree with you, I was trying to make a point that we have to accept other peoples opinions as just that opinions, not everyone will agree and thats what makes the FF an exciting place... if some one goes against the trend they are not booted, however when it comes to personal attacks on forum members, thats just not on no?

Its stopped raining, I must go wash and polish my pride and joy.

[Aeron]

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

do u ppl seriously think that manufacturers would pay motoring writers to praise their products if they weren't terribly good?

hmmmmm i'm not sure

Im not saying that Holden pay them to say good things about the new VE. Its a fantastic car, the best ever built in Australia, but the writers complaints about the BA and glair off the dash, steering too sensitive & the drivers seat too low etc... is a load of crap. I drive an XR6T and I haven't noticed any of these things. Holden must have a contract with drive.com.au (and friends) so they'll bag the Falcon. Its quite sad, and its not journalism.

[Sledgehammer]

Holden sponsor drive through advertising and other ways and this has to be reflective in their minds. Wonder what would happen if you could come up with an independant magazine?

[whynot]

If one filters out the typical drivel (from the one eyed fans) in both the Ford and Holden forums, it is apparent that drive.com.au credibility has taken a real hit over this road test. It is, at best, just sloppy journalism.

Yes, more than some journalists do accept gratuity for a favourable review. If you think otherwise, one must ask which rock you were under during the John Laws "cash for comment" scandal. In drive.com.au review, however, I would surmise that the "gratuity" is just being able to test the vehicles and get a review out before its competitors.

Both Ford and Holden public relations folks would have been quite nauseous after reading the article. Ford, for obvious reasons plus the factual inaccuracies. Holden, because the same could have happened to them. Some may also think that Holden would be happy with the article's conclusion. I don't think so. To change purchasers' impressions the article must be clearly a "fair fight" from a creditable source. The only winner is Wheels magazine.

[FLYXR6]

amen to that!!!!

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by ltd

Another thing stevez, have a look at drive.com.au, every second article is about how good Holden are. Do you not think that there is such a thing as cheque book journalism going on here? With a parent company requiring federal government assistance and being told to get stuffed by Delphi, do you not think that marketing a vehicle by any and all means possible will not translate to sales?

Looking at the picture above of the two xr's and the holden I have now changed my opinion on the ve. I hate it. It looks far too awkward and looks as though it is a falcon that has been squeezed at the sides to make it narrower and taller. Honestly, compare the two vehicles on either side then look at the holden. Korean crap at its finest. They've even put it ahead of the two fords to make it look bigger and it still looks like a vectra. Look at the blokes driving all 3. One of them looks like he's leaning into the passenger area. Now I suppose we'll hear about Holden being smaller and therefore more efficient. And don't even get me started on the chock-knob in the Stone age Holden commercial. Billion dollar baby? More like billion dollar botch job biotch.

Well spoken!!!

[Bossxr8]

For a real review of the VE Commodore, buy a copy of Australian Muscle Car magazine. They have written a totally unbiased review of the VE without falling for the VE lovefest that most other journos have fallen for. They avoided the Holden press conferences to form an unbiased review and did an excellent article that highlights the positives and negatives. They concluded that the VE only that hits the mark in the SS and SSV, and the 6 cylinder models fall way short of where they should be. Even went as far as to say the Alloytec sounds and feels like an XF taxi when revved.

[FANTASY]

I did get something out of the article. It rammed home that I have to get me some 18s for the little baby. Other than that, everything is sweet with the BF Turbo.

[Ford PR Man]

Hi guys and gals,

Andrew from Ford Public Affairs again. Actually enjoying a holiday after the recent Ford LPG Challenge, but couldn't help logging on to see what's happening in FF.

Lots of interesting comments here. If you would like to see them gain a little more traction, may I suggest emailing them to the letters to the editor section of the SMH.

The address is letters@smh.com.au

cheers

[grumpyoldb]

: I am really amazed at some of the hysterical infantile comments over this report. Just because they preferred one car over the others that had specific failings that they didn't like, and you blokes rave on like it's WWIII. It's only a road test report ferchrisakes. Just because your brand didn't win, don't worry. You'll manage to find a report by the motoring correspondent of the Woop Woop Globe or some other esteemed publication whose views suit yours that will take the pain away. Unfortunately, that's the price of progress and I feel you should get used to it for the time being until maybe the Orion arrives, and then maybe it'll be different - it may have played catch-up. At the moment it's pretty obvious that the VE is a better car - as it damned well should be seeing it's several years younger and $1b has been spent making it - it'd want to be good. Grow up though please and at least be objective

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by grumpyoldb

: I am really amazed at some of the hysterical infantile comments over this report. Just because they preferred one car over the others that had specific failings that they didn't like, and you blokes rave on like it's WWIII. It's only a road test report ferchrisakes. Just because your brand didn't win, don't worry. You'll manage to find a report by the motoring correspondent of the Woop Woop Globe or some other esteemed publication whose views suit yours that will take the pain away. Unfortunately, that's the price of progress and I feel you should get used to it for the time being until maybe the Orion arrives, and then maybe it'll be different - it may have played catch-up. At the moment it's pretty obvious that the VE is a better car - as it damned well should be seeing it's several years younger and $1b has been spent making it - it'd want to be good. Grow up though please and at least be objective

Did anyone here actually think the BF 6 or 8 would 'win'? Not me. Whatever that means in the context of the article. Is it car vs car, or car vs the outback or car vs rock/clay? And I indicated that earlier. What starts out as a drive.com.au vs 'people who like to read articles that are done professionally and make sense' has turned into a Ford vs Holden slanging match. Why? Because a small minority stir the pot on both forums.

Lets all get over it and get on with life and read the latest mags which undoubtedly will hand the 'wins' to the VE, but in a defined context and in something my 12 yr old daughter couldnt write.

[Laminge]

I believe the shoe will be on the other foot soon enough with Fords next release and the same conversation will be had over on the ls1 forums.

All we need to do is get Ford and Holden to release a new model on the same day....

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by grumpyoldb

: I am really amazed at some of the hysterical infantile comments over this report. Just because they preferred one car over the others that had specific failings that they didn't like, and you blokes rave on like it's WWIII. It's only a road test report ferchrisakes. Just because your brand didn't win, don't worry. You'll manage to find a report by the motoring correspondent of the Woop Woop Globe or some other esteemed publication whose views suit yours that will take the pain away. Unfortunately, that's the price of progress and I feel you should get used to it for the time being until maybe the Orion arrives, and then maybe it'll be different - it may have played catch-up. At the moment it's pretty obvious that the VE is a better car - as it damned well should be seeing it's several years younger and $1b has been spent making it - it'd want to be good. Grow up though please and at least be objective

You like some others obviously missed our point. It is not the result, rather the **** poor conclusions gained from them breaking cars and also their obvious ignorance. I am not moaning because the VE won!

[uranium_death]

I think that the VE is a good car. No problems there.

But the issue for me is that Drive and other crappy motor mags make it sound like the Falcon is a total pile of **** and the VE is miles ahead...which is NOT true.

The Falcon, mechanically in some respects is ahead of the Commodore, but of course since Holden has paid for the favourable review, they won't mention that.

The Commodore has a more "modern" body with the whole european bullshit label giving many Holden fans a case of "sticky-nicks".

But the fact is that which car you purchase comes down to which you like more. I think the base Commodores look retarded while the "plain-jane outdated" Falcon still looks a winner to me.

And to insult people because you disagree is stupid. If you insult others because they may be nitwits, it says a lot about you.

Argue their comments fairly, but don't slander. This site is for everybody.