Overemployment

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Anyone on here do the overemployment thing and prepared to share their experience?

Not that I'm even remotely interested in doing it, but just interested to know how people who do it find it.

Don't know what overemployment is? It's basically working two (or more!) fulltime jobs at the same time. See https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...ng-remote-jobs

There's even a website dedicated to providing tips and tricks on how to successfully be overemployed.

Interesting concept. I wonder how employers feel about it? I couldn't imagine too many would look at it favourably.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Anyone on here do the overemployment thing and prepared to share their experience?

Not that I'm even remotely interested in doing it, but just interested to know how people who do it find it.

Don't know what overemployment is? It's basically working two (or more!) fulltime jobs at the same time. See https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...ng-remote-jobs

There's even a website dedicated to providing tips and tricks on how to successfully be overemployed.

Interesting concept. I wonder how employers feel about it? I couldn't imagine too many would look at it favourably.

On an island ?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

On an island ?

Never thought about doing that form such a remote place, but as long as the internet services were ok, I'm sure I'd be able to cope

Seriously tho, if I were ever to move there, being overemployed would be my least priority.

BTW, the dream is continuing. Just need my daughter to work out what she wants to do with her life so I can work around that.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Never thought about doing that form such a remote place, but as long as the internet services were ok, I'm sure I'd be able to cope

Seriously tho, if I were ever to move there, being overemployed would be my least priority.

BTW, the dream is continuing. Just need my daughter to work out what she wants to do with her life so I can work around that.

When you asked that I instantly thought of Sir Richard Branson juggling all the things he does, living on an island without computers. He probably uses them now BTW.

I do have 2 jobs however not full time.

[MITCHAY]

It's not possible to work two full time jobs, at any point you are cheating the other hence why they are secret

Depending on the employer you can work two different jobs so long as it is declared.

Especially works for contractors and I know a couple who do this. Balances out the peaks and trough, retains skilled workers and also allows you to work doing different things so can benefit both.

The only issue is if there is a conflict for their time, but typically there is some agreement for how this is managed from the outset.

[FairmontGS]

Yes, it is possible to be over-employed and yet not work excessive hours. As a consultant I structure my contracts and billing accordingly so that the regular client is billed for the 9-5 contract, but I am available on retention to deal with ad-hoc jobs with the other clients who don't feel the need to sign me up. This means they pay "rack rates" for any work or advice, so ~1.5 times what the 9-5 client does. That adds up over a month with say one 9-5 and 3 or 4 adhocs who regularly contact me for work.

Not available to every industry I understand, but it's an example of how you can structure things without the secrecy.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Yes, it is possible to be over-employed and yet not work excessive hours. As a consultant I structure my contracts and billing accordingly so that the regular client is billed for the 9-5 contract, but I am available on retention to deal with ad-hoc jobs with the other clients who don't feel the need to sign me up. This means they pay "rack rates" for any work or advice, so ~1.5 times what the 9-5 client does. That adds up over a month with say one 9-5 and 3 or 4 adhocs who regularly contact me for work.

Not available to every industry I understand, but it's an example of how you can structure things without the secrecy.

So you're saying your primary client will pay you 9-5 regardless if you do ad-hoc for another on that time? Interesting concept though can understand the skillset may play a part in this.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

So you're saying your primary client will pay you 9-5 regardless if you do ad-hoc for another on that time? Interesting concept though can understand the skillset may play a part in this.

No, the 9-5 client expects the hours. What I was attempting to say was that because you have the rack rate arrangement outside that then u don’t end up working say 16 hours to make double pay for that day.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Interesting concept. I wonder how employers feel about it? I couldn't imagine too many would look at it favourably.

I've always had a clause in all my contracts that states I am not allowed to be employed elsewhere without prior approval.

But I can see how it could be doable without additional great effort if you are smart about it....like this bloke...sort of....he wasn't smart enough to not get caught

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21043693

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

On an island ?

Whilst not an island, Costa Rica is fairly remote, albeit with reasonably solid internet.
Traditionally, most expats were retiree’s. Since covid the late 30/early40s families permanently relocating there has been massive (predominately from USA, some Canadian)
Most of these youngish families have both parents full-time employed working online from their tropical paradise home!
I know it’s probably not “over employment”, but spun me out how the world has changed virtually overnight!

[Yellow_Festiva]

I alluded to doing this in the Housing thread.

During my divorce I was looking at expenses of $10-20k some months depending on how difficult the other side was being, how many days representation was needed in court etc.

Including the mortgage of near $4k each month that the other half refused to contribute to for 3 years post separation.

At the time I was working as a full time teacher, so lets assume that's 8am to 4pm.

I would wake at 6 and was doing Uber - at the time there was an option to get jobs towards a certain direction or within a certain radius and would sometimes get 2 or 3 jobs while driving to school, bit sometimes I got none so would arrive to school early and do schooling stuff.

After finishing at 4pm I would drive to the city to work at the front desk of a building, 5pm to 11pm. I did that 3-4 nights a week.

On the weekends I did more Ubering, sometimes starting at 7am and finishing at 10pm. Other weekends I did a cleaning job. I had the odd weekend shift in the city as well when offered.

The place I was living in needed a Building Manager, I applied for and got the job. In turn, I was able to handle many of the maintenance jobs that popped up, and because I had my tools with me, and only charged moderately for my time I did several 'odd jobs' each week.

At one time I had 5 jobs..

Tax time was fun... And guesstimating my income to Child Support was fraught with danger as some weeks I worked double the hours when I didn't have my kids etc.

It wasn't easy, and I'm lucky that physically I could get by on 3 or 4 hrs of sleep a night. When the other side realised that I'm just as keen to keep my assets and see my kids no matter the toll on my body she woke up to her senses and accepted a settlement less than 1/3 the original demand.

Would I do it again if needed? In a bloody heartbeat, but I'm stubborn like that.

[danzvtil]

Back when I was working full time and running my business on the weekends, it was put to me by a person i know that i was "double dipping". Double dipping what i dont know, but i was paying twice the amount of tax she was, she didnt even thank me for paying extra for those roads and hospitals.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Whilst not an island, Costa Rica is fairly remote, albeit with reasonably solid internet.
Traditionally, most expats were retiree’s. Since covid the late 30/early40s families permanently relocating there has been massive (predominately from USA, some Canadian)

After watching "House Hunter International" lots certainly head your way.

On the over employment theme, as a poor 2nd year apprentice, we were often asked to work on privately commissioned restoration jobs set up by our then leading hand. We would earn $200 for 2 days weekend work compared to $87 per week.
Strutted around like Rockafellar.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

I'm not sure that all of you guys have got the gist of what Overemployment is. It is not working multiple jobs where the jobs don't overlap (ie you're only working for one employer at any point in time). Overemployment is where you are working for one or more employer a the same point in time, ie

You work for employer A Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day.
You work for employer B Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day.

Not:

Work for employer A Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day
Work for employer B Mon to Fri, 5:30 to 10pm each day.

Whilst numerous employment contracts have clauses in them saying you can't carry out work for a competitor (I understand that you can't contract someone from earning a living, hence it can only apply to a direct competitor, and the sharing of IP), I also understand it is very rare, perhaps even non-existent, that any employment contract would state that you can't work for another employer at exactly the same, is sharing your employment time between two or more different employers.

Mind you, it would be interesting to see how this would be treated legally, as I understand that, in some jurisdictions, it may be considered to be fraudulent behaviour. It would certainly have moral issues, as a minimum.

[Polyal]

I might be also school, and maybe its industry dependant, but I dont know how you can work for A and B in the same time period?

Would that not mean either/both are not utilising you 100%, and therefore why are you a full time employee?

Efficiency during that time period is a different kettle of fish, we are assuming you are at least working to 90% capacity over that period.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I also understand it is very rare, perhaps even non-existent, that any employment contract would state that you can't work for another employer at exactly the same, is sharing your employment time between two or more different employers.

Every single one of my full time contracts has had that clause, here and overseas. Only time I didn't have that clause was when I was contracting in London (which when you think about it, is odd, cos you'd think they would want a contractor's full undivided attention on the kind of daily rates!) If you want to earn extra cash, there are "workarounds", just do something that does not required you to be officially employed e.g. day trading.

One of my ex bosses wanted to do part time volunteering after hours, but for some reason it meant he had to be officially employed. He had to seek permission from the company, which of course, was granted.

[T3rminator]

I've heard of some contracts that go even further than not allowed to be employed concurrently. They actually state you can't perform "other income generating activities" whilst employed by them during business hours. So that would eliminate things like trading shares at work.

[Burnout]

I've worked, (if its called that), with some people who were overemployed......

[Citroënbender]

Unintended, but succint IMO.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I'm not sure that all of you guys have got the gist of what Overemployment is. It is not working multiple jobs where the jobs don't overlap (ie you're only working for one employer at any point in time). Overemployment is where you are working for one or more employer a the same point in time, ie

You work for employer A Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day.
You work for employer B Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day.

Not:

Work for employer A Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day
Work for employer B Mon to Fri, 5:30 to 10pm each day.

Whilst numerous employment contracts have clauses in them saying you can't carry out work for a competitor (I understand that you can't contract someone from earning a living, hence it can only apply to a direct competitor, and the sharing of IP), I also understand it is very rare, perhaps even non-existent, that any employment contract would state that you can't work for another employer at exactly the same, is sharing your employment time between two or more different employers.

Mind you, it would be interesting to see how this would be treated legally, as I understand that, in some jurisdictions, it may be considered to be fraudulent behaviour. It would certainly have moral issues, as a minimum.

Police officers come to mind.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I might be also school, and maybe its industry dependant, but I dont know how you can work for A and B in the same time period?

Would that not mean either/both are not utilising you 100%, and therefore why are you a full time employee?

Efficiency during that time period is a different kettle of fish, we are assuming you are at least working to 90% capacity over that period.

Quite easily...

So, did my teaching gig today, hopped in the car and drove to the city to start the next job.

Here I am hard at work while updating the the kids' spare phone and tablet with kids stuff while I'm on AFF and finalising my trip to Canada on the weekend.

Oh, and will have dinner while I'm at it.

Had it been a different time I would be marking students books, writing reports, creating and sending invoices for my other job or doing work on the laptop for my online business.

I'm don't have Wifi at home so will probably catch a few episodes of The Office on my phone with Stan after 9pm when I get really, really bored.

No one in the Spa tonight so my chances of catching a couple going at it are slim to nil...

And before anyone jumps all staff do the same, as allowed to by our boss.

Had the job going 7 years now - no there are no vacancies.

Oh, and I make it clear with any job I have ever taken that I do other work. I will not and never have agreed to any 'can't have other jobs' clauses.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I'm not sure that all of you guys have got the gist of what Overemployment is. It is not working multiple jobs where the jobs don't overlap (ie you're only working for one employer at any point in time). Overemployment is where you are working for one or more employer a the same point in time, ie

You work for employer A Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day.
You work for employer B Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day.

Not:

Work for employer A Mon to Fri, 9 to 5 each day
Work for employer B Mon to Fri, 5:30 to 10pm each day.

Whilst numerous employment contracts have clauses in them saying you can't carry out work for a competitor (I understand that you can't contract someone from earning a living, hence it can only apply to a direct competitor, and the sharing of IP), I also understand it is very rare, perhaps even non-existent, that any employment contract would state that you can't work for another employer at exactly the same, is sharing your employment time between two or more different employers.

Mind you, it would be interesting to see how this would be treated legally, as I understand that, in some jurisdictions, it may be considered to be fraudulent behaviour. It would certainly have moral issues, as a minimum.

I had never heard of the term before. I looked it up and most definitions say it refers to people who are forced to work more than they can sustain for extended periods of time due to either an employer forcing them to work long hours or they will loss their job or people who have to work more than they can handle due to financial pressure. I haven't found much about working two jobs for the same hours.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Police officers come to mind.

True, that.
Years ago I worked for a commercial diving company.. We did things like pier pylon inspections, underwater repairs to the doors/gates under dredges, and underwater cutting/welding…
Most of the divers were “moonlighting” VicPol SOG members.
All had the blessing of VicPol command as the work was considered “training” and added to their underwater logbook hours… (very bloody well paid too!)

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I had never heard of the term before. I looked it up and most definitions say it refers to people who are forced to work more than they can sustain for extended periods of time due to either an employer forcing them to work long hours or they will loss their job or people who have to work more than they can handle due to financial pressure. I haven't found much about working two jobs for the same hours.

Did you look at the two links I posted in my original post? There's a whole website dedicated to the practice of working two remote jobs at the same time.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Quite easily...

So, did my teaching gig today, hopped in the car and drove to the city to start the next job.

Here I am hard at work while updating the the kids' spare phone and tablet with kids stuff while I'm on AFF and finalising my trip to Canada on the weekend.

Oh, and will have dinner while I'm at it.

Had it been a different time I would be marking students books, writing reports, creating and sending invoices for my other job or doing work on the laptop for my online business.

I'm don't have Wifi at home so will probably catch a few episodes of The Office on my phone with Stan after 9pm when I get really, really bored.

No one in the Spa tonight so my chances of catching a couple going at it are slim to nil...

And before anyone jumps all staff do the same, as allowed to by our boss.

Had the job going 7 years now - no there are no vacancies.

Oh, and I make it clear with any job I have ever taken that I do other work. I will not and never have agreed to any 'can't have other jobs' clauses.

image

Yeah I guess its just what you are used to or just want, I dont personally understand. I actively try and find ways to earn the same/more and work less, once the kids are through high school it would be very unlikely I will be working 5 days a week.

Id be worried about burnout or just not being able to spend any time doing other things.

All power to you though, just look after yourself.

I do recall with trades in mining that there were very strong advice given for those on a roster to not do other work while off shift. It was generally cloaked as a safety/fatigue issue (your meant to be resting so your right when back on shift) and also to stop competitors taking people. It had implications for any work compensation payouts if it was found they were working off shift and claim any fatigue as a cause of an incident.

Different industry and different risks.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

And before anyone jumps all staff do the same, as allowed to by our boss.

But isn't your boss and his company just contracted by the building board. That won't happen in my old mans building in Sydney,
The concierge jobs there does not allow any other employment especially as they are well paid by the residents with the residential board making the approval of whom works there.
If I were the tenants of that building I would demand to see who's actually working for the money they are being paid.
That's NOT overemployment that's bulging on other peoples wages.