Are FWD cars such a bad thing

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Again how is throttle induced torque steer any different to throttle induced oversteer. It seems nobody is prepared to answer this question...

JP

One is infinitely more fun than the other.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I guess we probably had around the same amount of power at the wheels, I have 138 killer wasps at the rears, what are VW GTI's at the engine?

146, I think. They weigh around 1300kg or so.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

One is infinitely more fun than the other.

true that. despite the claims that the Megane RS has no torque steer, its not true, it has some (less than you'd expect for the power it puts out) ... though not in a put the foot down and the wheel turns in your hand way. more a case of if you have some lock with a meaningful amount of throttle, it wants to increase the amount of lock. pretty easy to adjust for, and prompts you to be a bit more gradual with the throttle.

I imagine a setup like this will eventually find its way onto more mainstream FWDs eventually.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Kable72

Betcha the RWD will feel better on the road than the FWD while towing. I've towed with FWD cars before, against my will, and it felt sketchy as hell. Towed with my old BA falcon about a week after and it felt much better and much more capable.

Nope..... felt no different. And you want to know why? because I don't push past the limits of the car and I know how to set the load up correctly.

A FWD car will feel.. well as you describe if it's towing above its limit of if the load on the back isn't set up correctly... simple as that.

I tow my boat with no issues, I tow my loaded 5x7 trailer with no issues. Car feels no different in terms of how safe it is. I drive to the conditions, as anyone towing should do by default. Brake a little early, take off a little more smoothly. These are things you do with any car. You don't need to treat a FWD car any differently if you drive to the conditions and actually know what you are doing.

Don't overload the ball and the car will sit flat much the same as if it were unladen. Things get sketchy when some tool puts 150+kg weight on the ball then wonders why the nose of the car is raised 2 inches higher than normal.

I have done a lot of towing with my dads old XF, his newish RWD petrol Hilux and my brothers new 4x4 diesel Hilux and the only difference I can feel to be totally honest is driver comfort. If I had to tow 800kg the Focus would be first on the list... the Diesel Hilux is reserved for when I get to pull a really heavy load / car trailer and I can't stand using dads Hilux for anything as it's his farm hack and he grows prickly pears......

Cheers

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Yep it has to be driven v carefully with delicate throttle control but under such conditions RWD is hopelessly stranded.
In fact muddies on a FWD would be pretty hard to get stranded in unless you run aground, studded on ice also.

We had a hire car i45 in Tasmania and it performed very well in light snow. We passed many stranded RWD cars because the front end would just skate on the ice.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by mik

for me just the thought of working on on a fwd is enough to say ahhh no thanks, as i mentioned earlier, torque steer every time you throttle it ****** me orf, no big deal ......just freakin annoying

my old XR5 had around 175kw at the front wheels. When it was driven normally never was there a hint of torque steer.
When I nailed it i was prepared anyway. So was never an issue.
In my ST torque steer is there but in standard form its a lot better than my XR5 was.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I thought I would have put up a good fight, but obviously not .

After I did that my coolant warning light came on and I lost 750ml of coolant, so its parked up and I'm going to compression test it soon just in case.

EL Falcon put up a good fight vs Golf GTI ? How could you ever think that :-)
Those cars are not in the same class performance wise .
I find it interesting how many consider themselves a performance RWD enthusiasts and drive a Falcon automatic , but it is ZF mate they say
FWD performance hatch cant even be had in automatic - Megane , DC2 , XR5 or ST - all manual only...
I drive a RWD V8 cruiser ,performance FWD and a 4WD DC ute - they all do some things well and some not so well. For GOR fun FWD is the way to go - in tarmac stages of Monte Carlo rally FWD specials were the quicker than AWD and havent seen any RWDs competing.
In low grip situations AWD and FWD rule - hence not many RWD rally cars any more.

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by LG17

You are also comparing cars which are 10 years apart in technology so that's hardly credible either.

I drive a BF mk2 XR6 ute and my wife has an '09 Mondeo.
As good and stable as the Mondeo feels to drive, I still think that the ute is better. I have taken both on long drives (Cairns to Brisbane and back) through all sorts of weather and road conditions and prefer the ute as it, to me, is more predictable in its responses. There's nothing inherently wrong with the way the Mondeo drives but when push come to shove, the Falcon by a nose.

I was referring to someones post further back, hence the EL reference

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by LOWAU

Also years back there was a Toyota Exec that crashed a TRD supercharged Aurion on a freeway on ramp. Torque steer is crap!

This is an example of somebody getting the accelerator confused with the brake…

imagine what trouble that driver would have gotten into driving a V8 Ute

[mik]

Jpblue1000 Its not about over steer or understeer, its just about nice road manners in day to day driving.

[Wretched]

I have owned both RWD and FWD, in terms of road manners for everyday commute there isn't anything to differentiate the two.
The only issue I have had with the FWD and it is only a XR5T/ST thing is the turning circle is quite large...but a minor thing really.
Other than that I can't tell the differences between a RWD and FWD in traffic or on a highway.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by mik

Jpblue1000 Its not about over steer or understeer, its just about nice road manners in day to day driving.

I agree, its just too many claim FWD are rubbish because of the fabled torque steer and claim it kills everyone within a mile of the event or some such rubbish and I wanted them to prove that there was any difference in the front being out of control or the rear of a car because of acceleration...only answer you get is fun!

JP

[mik]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I agree, its just too many claim FWD are rubbish because of the fabled torque steer and claim it kills everyone within a mile of the event or some such rubbish and I wanted them to prove that there was any difference in the front being out of control or the rear of a car because of acceleration...only answer you get is fun!

JP

i agree mate, both have their plusses and minuses, and the same can be said for those that say X can be fun but Y can't be ,
doing a stretch in a big rental car /truck agency some years ago and i did get to drive a big variety of cars from sporty types to run of the mill cars of all sizes and types, 4wd's and trucks as well some years ago, part of the job was transporting vehicles between depots across town or delivering cars to customers, and we had to drive the crap out of them, that was the job , you can have fun in any vehicle, in the end it comes back to personal choice and use.

[EgoFG]

The FWD is and has always been a packaging preference to decrease production costs.
(IMNSHBO)

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

The FWD is and has always been a packaging preference to decrease production costs.
(IMNSHBO)

FWD didn't come about to reduce costs for the manufacturer. Back in the early 80's as FWD was becoming mainstream, Toyota of all brands were the most resistant. The Corolla didn't switch to FWD for some years after the Mazda 323/Ford Laser came out in 81. The reason of course would have been cost - it was cheaper to continue along with the traditional RWD layout.

But customers demanded more space in their small cars. That's why FWD came to be the layout of choice for so many models - it has a few key practical benefits.

But today, with 90% of new cars being FWD and every new model owing something to another, it is far cheaper for manufactures to go with FWD.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

Dual cab 4x4s really do make a great multi role vehicle.

Gone are the days of them being rough, agricultural pigs - most are like a car inside now!

the back seats are still cr*p, mite as well sit on a plank of wood, just try moving house with one too, mite as well have a focus for tray space

[Burnout]

FWD may be OK - having driven a few, I just don't like them.

[partsguy]

I sold my BA and bought an LV Focus manual. I love the point & press approach and find the car to be a lot more 'funner' than any other car I've owned.
Although Mrs Partsguy will kick my **** for buying yet another car, the Fiesta ST will be high on my shopping list next year. She has taken the Focus off me.
I do enjoy driving both FWD & RWD, they are different and have to be approached differently if you are intending to have fun.
Anyone who hasn't found FWD fun isn't doing it right.

Day to day driving (peak hour) there's F&*K all in it!

[Cuyper]

I'll test drive the fiesta St and I have no doubt it'll be the "funnest" car I've ever driven. Probably buy it too. There's cars and good cars but that one will be exceptional

[Sprint]

It also comes down to Physics.

Yes it is easier to pull(drive thru rear wheels) a object than push it, especially on hills. However at the point of diminishing returns this pull(front wheel drive ) becomes a issue at high speeds(true sports cars) when push is needed. trains make full use of this push /pull force by putting the loco either in front or behind, sometimes a combo of both for the hills.

http://askville.amazon.com/Front-whe...uestId=3870339

[gtracer1]

I own a BAFPVGT and an R32GTR putting out 400kw at all 4 wheels. When it comes to a tight windy road its the GTR any day!

[ryeman]

BTCC is dominated by FWD [Civic hatch n MG(!)] BMW struggles to stay competitive. An XR6/8 couldn't keep up with a Clio Cup on a twisty road, it would need a straight mountain road climb.
Road tests of Magnas always favoured in handling tests and now the geometry tricks have made FWD a surprise for even ardent RWD enthusiasts who are prepared to just give it a try.
It's more to do with the macho 'real men drive RWD' BS, and I drive an XR6, they were discounting so heavily it was impossible to resist and Toyota dealers were not doing deals like that on the Aurion.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by OLD BALDY

Except as mentioned above most of us have only driven little BUZZ boxes FWD and the are buzz boxes. Maybe a larger car FWD will be better!! any one driven the large yank tank FWD?

yep...I drive a 310kw at the fly FWD car as a daily.

It goes very well.