So like me you thought it was OK to plug a 10amp device into a 15amp outlet.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Wrong way around, OP needs a 15A plug and 10A socket.

Edit. Deleted post.

Whoops. Apologies to Interceptor. It is me who should actually read the post correctly.

[gkhn]

That's exactly what I said. This is why you plug in that device (Portable Power Block With RCD Safety Switch) between your 10A device and the 15A or 10A outlet.

Originally Posted by Interceptor

The buildings 15a circuit will happily supply a faulty device with up to 15 amps of current without problem and will do so with an appropriate safety margin.
The faulty device, however, may not cope so well.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Some of the responses in here remind me of the advice I gave years ago to another member on here: just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[foxtrot3]

Hi. You could also put a 15 amp plug ( https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-15a-...g-top_p4330042 ) on to an extension cord ( https://www.bunnings.com.au/click-2m...-lead_p0189129 ) or a power board with a 10 amp circuit breaker ( https://www.bunnings.com.au/click-wh...board_p0255490 ) or a power block with breaker and RCD ( https://www.bunnings.com.au/click-4-...witch_p0135806 ). Cheers MD

[aussiblue]

There are legit 15A socket-outlet to 10A plug adapters that incorporate a miniature 10A CB. .

Can you post a link for me to a source please?

[whynot]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Can you post a link for me to a source please?

https://www.safetyquip.com.au/produc...screened-lead/



https://www.auselectronicsdirect.com...nd-up-reel-15a


15M Extension Board with Wind-up Reel - 15A
Convenient 15m Extension Cable with 15A Plug and Sockets
A convenient store and use extension cable with 3 pin 15A AC plug with extra large pin, 3 x 10A outlets and 1 x 15A outlet with a maximum loading of 3600W. Features a master On/off power switch, over temperature and overload protection. Heavy duty frame and easy to carry around with handle.
Dimensions: 325x265x130mm

I should add, the 10A plug should go into a 15A DETA outlet. I am not a big fan of shutters on outlets (but I understand why they are there). I often struggle with getting a darn 10A plug into a 10A socket. If you have any non-hydrocarbon silicone based grease, you can put a thin smear on the tips of the plug prongs.

[Franco Cozzo]

For the record, circuit breaker protects the wiring in the wall, RCD protects humans.

RCBO is a combination of both circuit breaker and RCD, when you pay for a switchboard upgrade they usually put RCBOs in to replace old fuses or circuit breakers.

Then you might have to pay extra when they trip all the time diagnosing issues with old appliances and earth leakage problems

RCD monitors what's going in/out of the active and neutral wires, so if there's current going out the active and it's not all coming back through the neutral wire we've got a human in the circuit and we better cut the power.

I think that's the gist of it anyway, real sparkies here to confirm.

There's also sketchy bullshit with old houses and earthing through pipes in the ground that puts the fear of God into plumbers with earth faults, people getting tingles from taps and plumbers cutting pipes and becoming part of the circuit when they grab both sides of it or something.

How good is electricity, kills people and you can't see it, you can certainly feel it though

[aussiblue]

Thanks muchly.

[Itsme]

Safety shutters built in gpo's are only there to stop children and big kids (adults) sticking objects into the slots, has nothing to do stopping using 10 amp leads into 15amp gpo's.

[Citroënbender]

In a similar vein, I’ve always agonised over whether it’s best to add the flour to the sugar, or the sugar to the flour when baking.

I liked the thorough posts here by whynot.

[aussiblue]

I’m sure this belongs more in The Bar - it’s scarcely “General automotive related talk”.

I think it's one and the same place CB/

This is the area to start, general automotive chat, chin wag at the bar, help advice is all here.

[aussiblue]

I received a message from another forum member yesterday that said in part:

Hello Aussieblue,
As someone who regularly plugs 10A in to my 15A points I have followed your thread with interest. This morning I emailed Building and Energy WA and asked the question. Can’t believe how quickly someone from the Energy Safety Compliance Team called , the fellow I spoke with said there is no issues at all with 10A in to 15A, a lot went over my head but basically the circuit is still protected and a 15A socket is designed to take both.

:

So I also emailed the Energy Safety Compliance Team at the WA at Building and Energy WA at be.energy@dmirs.wa.gov.au relaying the advice given from DETA via Bunnings Workshop Forum site and I was also assured that there is absolutely no issues at all with plugging a 10 amp plug into into 15 amp socket and it was perfectly safe to do so as basically the circuit is still protected and that a Australian 15A socket is meant to be designed to take both. The also said that they were puzzled as to why DETA would produce a 15amp socket that could not take a 10amp plug. So this certainly raises questions about the advice from DETA or even perhaps to what extent their products meets Australian standards.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I received a message from another forum member yesterday that said in part:

:

So I also emailed the Energy Safety Compliance Team at the WA at Building and Energy WA at be.energy@dmirs.wa.gov.au relaying the advice given from DETA via Bunnings Workshop Forum site and I was also assured that there is absolutely no issues at all with plugging a 10 amp plug into into 15 amp socket and it was perfectly safe to do so as basically the circuit is still protected and that a Australian 15A socket is meant to be designed to take both. The also said that they were puzzled as to why DETA would produce a 15amp socket that could not take a 10amp plug. So this certainly raises questions about the advice from DETA or even perhaps to what extent their products meets Australian standards.

Do yourself a favour, either purchase Clipsal or HPM brand for quality electrical products and stay away from inferior Deta rubbish.

Cheers

[aussiblue]

Just to be clear the double 15amp outlet in my shed isn't a DETA one; it's a Voltex one (similar to this https://www.voltexelectrical.com.au/...-ip53-15a.aspx ) that was supplied by the electrician who installed it. DETA only came into the discussion as the Bunnings guys who run the Hardware Workshop consulted with them and HPM as outlined in my opening post. I must admit I also thought it was a DETA as it looks almost identical so it may have come out of the same Chinese factory.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Just to be clear the double 15amp outlet in my shed isn't a DETA one; it's a Voltex one (similar to this https://www.voltexelectrical.com.au/...-ip53-15a.aspx ) that was supplied by the electrician who installed it. DETA only came into the discussion as the Bunnings guys who run the Hardware Workshop consulted with them and HPM as outlined in my opening post. I must admit I also thought it was a DETA as it looks almost identical so it may have come out of the same Chinese factory.

fwiw, voltex are pretty much in the same basket as deta, cheap imported garbage

[foxtrot3]

Hi. Is it worth finding out if the shutters can be removed as the description says they are for "maximum weather protection", They may not be required in your situation. I know we were able to take the safety shutters out of some old HPM gpo's to enable their use with non earthed equipment (things with no earth pin). Cheers MD

[aussiblue]

s it worth finding out if the shutters can be removed as the description says they are for "maximum weather protection", They may not be required in your situation.

They are close to the doorway so I would I think prefer to keep them.

[X-AHH]

Well, did you lubricate your holes and try again?

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by X-AHH

Well, did you lubricate your holes and try again?

DH Lawrence would have been off and running by now.

[aussiblue]

Well, did you lubricate your holes and try again?

No; as I could actually plug the 10amp plugs in albeit there was some resistance and they seemed to move to a point where the contact isn't as good as it should be. Initially when I first plugged the 10amp plugs in I had to wobble them in a vertical direction up and down to get them in and the devices didn't always power up unless I pushed them up slightly in a vertical direction as if they weren't properly seating. However, I now think this may all have been because the shutters were stiff and previously had only been used with 15amp plugs and even then in recent years only occasionally (mostly with the car lift about twice a year). I guess I should take the cover off and check there is no signs of water ingress or corrosion though. I am a little reluctant to try the lubricant as when I do have 15 amp devices (i.e, the car lift) plugged in they are part of fairly weighty heavy duty cabled that hang almost verbally from the sockets and I am concerned that they may simply fall partially or wholly out of the sockets under their own weight if lubrication was used. In any event, I am now finding that after plugging these 10 amp plugs in many time over now they are now going in much easier and powering up immediately and there is no existing issue.

My initial post was really mostly for awareness and discussion of what I though at the time, based on the Bunnings advice, was a newly discovered safety issue rather than solving a problem. Thanks for all the input and advice everyone.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

No; as I could actually plug the 10amp plugs in albeit there was some resistance and they seemed to move to a point where the contact isn't as good as it should be. Initially when I first plugged the 10amp plugs in I had to wobble them in a vertical direction up and down to get them in and the devices didn't always power up unless I pushed them up slightly in a vertical direction as if they weren't properly seating. However, I now think this may all have been because the shutters were stiff and previously had only been used with 15amp plugs and even then in recent years only occasionally (mostly with the car lift about twice a year). I guess I should take the cover off and check there is no signs of water ingress or corrosion though. I am a little reluctant to try the lubricant as when I do have 15 amp devices (i.e, the car lift) plugged in they are part of fairly weighty heavy duty cabled that hang almost verbally from the sockets and I am concerned that they may simply fall partially or wholly out of the sockets under their own weight if lubrication was used. In any event, I am now finding that after plugging these 10 amp plugs in many time over now they are now going in much easier and powering up immediately and there is no existing issue.

My initial post was really mostly for awareness and discussion of what I though at the time, based on the Bunnings advice, was a newly discovered safety issue rather than solving a problem. Thanks for all the input and advice everyone.

There was no safety issue - best to stick with proven brands (Clipsal, HPM, Legrand etc.) No electrician i know would install Bunnings Deta or similar. Their advice is in the same category as their product .

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

There was no safety issue - best to stick with proven brands (Clipsal, HPM, Legrand etc.) No electrician i know would install Bunnings Deta or similar. Their advice is in the same category as their product .

Even if you went to an electrical wholesaler like AWM I still wouldn't ask advice, at the end of the day they won't be qualified electricians behind the counter, it would be rare to find someone with experience in the industry working behind those counters unless its an old bloke who wants off the tools, but usually they'd become TAFE teachers as the money is way better.

The pay rate for A grades vs working the counter at electrical wholesalers is too huge of a gap to attract experience in those places I reckon.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Even if you went to an electrical wholesaler like AWM I still wouldn't ask advice, at the end of the day they won't be qualified electricians behind the counter, it would be rare to find someone with experience in the industry working behind those counters unless its an old bloke who wants off the tools, but usually they'd become TAFE teachers as the money is way better.

The pay rate for A grades vs working the counter at electrical wholesalers is too huge of a gap to attract experience in those places I reckon.

Think you will find the salespeople at electrical wholesalers will be very knowledgeable with the electrical products compared to hardware stores staff, I have always found wholesalers staff very helpful from my experience in the trade.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Think you will find the salespeople at electrical wholesalers will be very knowledgeable with the electrical products compared to hardware stores staff, I have always found wholesalers staff very helpful from my experience in the trade.

With wholesalers it always helps to know your part numbers. If its a known obsolete item, they can usually cross reference suitable parts then you decide whats the best solution. I used to find it funny at one place on a saturday when weekend warriors would come in and bombard the desk with questions, the people at the desk would say nothing and point to the sign which read they are not electricians so cannot give advice.

[Antonio491]

It's interesting to hear about the challenges with the 10-amp plugs in a 15-amp outlet. It sounds like the initial resistance might have been due to stiff shutters. Good to know that the situation seems to be improving with repeated use. If you decide to check for water ingress or corrosion, hopefully, everything looks good.

[aussiblue]

No electrician i know would install Bunnings Deta or similar.

Well my electrician seemingly bought and installed Voltex. Admittedly at the time he had just started trialling a new FIFO job in the North West Mining Industry and was still sort of scaling his Perth business and stocks on hand down trying to decide if his family and he could cope with the long separations and related FIFO issues. His wife rang me a month or so later saying it had and he had closed the business. So perhaps this was old stock or for some reason all he could get hold of at the time.

[aussiblue]

BTW I am convinced the safety shutters are part of the sockets IP rating requirements to prevent water ingress. Noting the equivalent Clipsal version here https://www.clipsal.com/iconic-outdoor says:

The bevelled edges are made to deflect impacts and prevent the build-up of dirt, while integrated shutters seal the power outlet apertures to prevent water ingress, ensuring an IP54 protection rating. The switches are rated IP56.

Similar to my Voltex that claims:

These high current outlets are rated to 15A, and are shuttered, to ensure maximum protection against the weather.

But AS/NZS 3112:2017 Approval and test specification - Plugs and socket-outlets might tell us more. Per https://www.standards.org.au/news/sa...socket-outlets

AS/NZS 3112 provides the electrical industry, including manufacturers, test laboratories and regulators, with requirements and test methods for plugs and socket outlets.

The major changes to the standard include:

Specifications for detachable plug portions are now included
Dimension requirements for plugs and sockets clarified through revised and added diagrams
Plug and socket configurations have been clarified
Updated testing requirements for:
Ingress protection (IP)
Non-detachable parts
Insulation piercing terminals

Anyone got a copy to check?

Or maybe perhaps better Australian Standards AS60529 (I don't know I admit I am well out of my depth here) noting from https://www.amplex.com.au/blog/ip-ratings-explained :

The IP rating or code of a piece of equipment is an actual rating the equipment is tested to, in a laboratory certified by NATA or a MRA partner.

According to the international standard IEC 60529 (ensconced in Australian Standards AS60529) IP Code classifies and rates the degrees of protection provided against the intrusion of solid objects, dust, accidental contact, and water in electronic equipment or electrical enclosures.

[aussiblue]

Much easier in plumbing

But I have found that a lot of plumbers also forget or ignore the little bit about electricity they are supposed to know all about and often don't use when they are meant to or sometimes don't even seem to possess when I ask why they are not using a bonding strap like this when inserting bits like a HWS into the house water main and/or the gas line https://www.plumberschoice.com.au/pr...onding-straps/ . I guess it's extremely low risk but it only has to happen once. And in WA Perth Metro with our very dry non-conductive soil if a earth stake has been detached the risk might be higher.

In the low likelihood high risk rating severity range:

[aussiblue]

See attached if you don't know about plumbing bonding straps. I guess more likely a, or a bigger risk, in older properties that perhaps are more likely to have both faulty electrical equipment and broken earth stakes or wires but certainly not a risk unique to them.

In addition to the extremely low perceived risk, the cost to have them periodically checked and certified (or perhaps just as cheaply replaced) and that apprentices (who else would they blame) often bury, mislay or forget to retrieve them is the reasons some plumbers have said to me is why the don't have them or use them. And how many home DIY occasional plumbers even know about them?

[aussiblue]

I also received this advice today from another Bunnings Workshop Forum member:

Shuttered power points in Australia are designed with safety in mind, particularly to protect children from electrical hazards. These shutters prevent direct access to the active components of the socket, making it harder for objects, such as fingers or metal tools, to be inserted into the plug holes. When a plug is inserted correctly, the shutters are designed to open and allow the plug to make contact with the electrical contacts safely.

The introduction of shuttered power points aligns with Australian standards for electrical safety (AS/NZS 3112), which aim to reduce accidents and injuries related to electrical outlets. This is part of a broader commitment to safety in electrical installations, ensuring that homes, workplaces, and public spaces are safer for everyone, especially for children who might not be aware of the dangers associated with electricity.

Sounds like all power sockets will soon be shuttered.