Ford CEO - Americans need to “get back in love” with small cars

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Sorry, I disagree...taking advice from people who lobby is one thing but if you have NO understanding of what it takes to have an idea, design it, build a factory to make the components or source the components, assemble it, employee the staff to get your product from design to out the door....you are open to influence more easily than if you actually cut your hands on the floor in your younger days....

And yes I know some will say you didn't have to experience it to understand it, but by god if you did understand it better wouldn't decisions at least have some balance rather than self-interest always taking over.

Here's the thing though, those people don't have what it takes to be politicians, nor are they capable of playing the game to make it through major party pre-selection processes to be even offered on the ballot paper to you and I to vote for.

They can certainly offer advice to the people who make it through though, assuming someone wants to actually listen to them

The best manager I've ever had wasn't even from the automotive/manufacturing industry, he was a personal trainer managing the head office of a manufacturing company, who was younger than me, he actually listened to what I had to say though.

What skills he did have was building soft influence/power and relationship management, he had the guys with the experience behind him and he backed us.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Thats why you don't sign one sided free trade agreements with these clowns, I'm pretty sure Ford Australia warned the Howard government about signing the FTA with Thailand.

Why would you build at Ford Australia who can only produce 60,000 cars annually at maximum capacity when you have Thailand in your back yard who can do 400,000+ and for bowl of rice a month wages?

Then the federal government incentivised it with a free trade agreement.

Same thing happened to our tyre manufacturing industry, if you're interested in a read check out what south pacific tyres had to say about the whole drama.

I’d put it to you that the Government of the time knew exactly what it was doing,
massive exports of coal, iron ore and gas to major partners like Japan, Korea and China
Imports of finished goods back from those major trading partners meant that Australia
were well in the positive. FTA with Thailand was supposed to provide low cost vehicles….
LOL, WTF happened there? Thinking deeper, those Thai finished goods was a way of
eliminating all those pesky unions and businesses that continually looking for tax breaks
and offsetting losses against revenue. Clearly, they didn’t care about the loss of business activity
here and the impact on whole communities.

Everywhere I used to see manufacturing plants, I see warehouses or storage tanks in place of refineries..

Its that way by design, Ford Australia is content with having two big sellers they dominate the market with, its plain to see their thinking behind deliberately letting everything else fall by the wayside.

If Ranger and Everest supply was threatened like the Euro models are, do you think Ford Australia would sit on its hands and say 'oh well'?

Or would they try everything within their powers to rectify the situation?

You need to understand that Ford Australia doesn’t call the shots with head office,
it’s a constant battle of justifying why they should even exist and all Ford cares about
in todays world is selling the most profitable mix of vehicles. So yeah, we are fortunate
that buyers are embracing Ranger and Everest in record numbers but yes, the on going
disappointment is how Ford fails to leverage low cost production in China to deliver all the
other vehicles it should be selling…..It just seems like it’s cheaper and easier to do nothing
and take the low hanging fruit…

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I’d put it to you that the Government of the time knew exactly what it was doing,
massive exports of coal, iron ore and gas to major partners like Japan, Korea and China
Imports of finished goods back from those major trading partners meant that Australia
were well in the positive. FTA with Thailand was supposed to provide low cost vehicles….
LOL, WTF happened there? Thinking deeper, those Thai finished goods was a way of
eliminating all those pesky unions and businesses that continually looking for tax breaks
and offsetting losses against revenue. Clearly, they didn’t care about the loss of business activity
here and the impact on whole communities.

Everywhere I used to see manufacturing plants, I see warehouses or storage tanks in place of refineries..


You need to understand that Ford Australia doesn’t call the shots with head office,
it’s a constant battle of justifying why they should even exist and all Ford cares about
in todays world is selling the most profitable mix of vehicles. So yeah, we are fortunate
that buyers are embracing Ranger and Everest in record numbers but yes, the on going
disappointment is how Ford fails to leverage low cost production in China to deliver
all the other vehicles it should be selling…..It just seems like it’s cheaper and easier to do nothing
and take the low hanging fruit…

I don't think it was about eliminating unions, its not like the AMWU had significant influence and control over anything, sure they had some influence in our manufacturers but its not like the CFMEU and its stranglehold over the VIC Government through funding one of the major political parties and control over all its infrastructure projects.

Some of it would be driven by ideology but its short sided thats left us in a huge mess.

I'm aware Ford Australia doesn't call the shots but they can also kick, scream, jump up and down and have a sook constantly - but they don't.

The only time they'd make an effort to fix some of the problems is if Ranger and Everest supply was threatened.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I don't think it was about eliminating unions, its not like the AMWU had significant influence and control over anything, sure they had some influence in our manufacturers but its not like the CFMEU and its stranglehold over the VIC Government through funding one of the major political parties and control over all its infrastructure projects.

Some of it would be driven by ideology but it’s short sided thats left us in a huge mess.

Sorry about the delay in responding,
At the time, the political narrative switched from supporting a local industry and the business activity
and prosperity that brought to “why are we paying multinational companies to make products here”
In a few short years, the conservatives managed to kill a lot of Australia’s manufacturing base.
Equally, the left did virtually nothing to encourage anything back, I guess it was just too late or,
they didn’t want to try as it was counter to their green policy…neither side helped
(I’m politically agnostic these days, I don’t like any of them, LOL)

I'm aware Ford Australia doesn't call the shots but they can also kick, scream, jump up and down and have a sook constantly - but they don't.

The only time they'd make an effort to fix some of the problems is if Ranger and Everest supply was threatened.

OK, replace kick, scream and sook with show us a viable business plan for what you want.
The truth is that the vehicles FOA desire were cleverly put just out of reach by being only
developed in LHD, so RHD isn’t as an easy factory plug and play without $200-$250 million on top

Ranger and Everest are proven profit earners, so money to fix problems can be more easily justified.
I wouldn’t argue against that but I agree that FOA needs to keep trying until corporate ears open.

Since Ford regrouped its business as Ford Blue, Model E and Ford Pro, we no longer see regions,
everything is neatly obscured away from sight so we can’t see location profits and losses.
It’s a good hunch that Ranger/Everest sales are stand outs in our region and are being noticed.

[FTE217]

If only business - politics - throw in the kitchen sink is as easy as Franco sees it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

OK, replace kick, scream and sook with show us a viable business plan for what you want.

The truth is that the vehicles FOA desire were cleverly put just out of reach by being only developed in LHD, so RHD isn’t as an easy factory plug and play without $200-$250 million on top

Ranger and Everest are proven profit earners, so money to fix problems can be more easily justified.

I wouldn’t argue against that but I agree that FOA needs to keep trying until corporate ears open.

Since Ford regrouped its business as Ford Blue, Model E and Ford Pro, we no longer see regions,
everything is neatly obscured away from sight so we can’t see location profits and losses.
It’s a good hunch that Ranger/Everest sales are stand outs in our region and are being noticed.

You've just described the system archetype 'success to the successful'.

In “Success to the Successful,” the demands made by competing groups for a common resource (time, money, people, attention, etc.) are linked by two reinforcing loops.

Because of the nature of the relationship, giving more to one group means leis is available for the other. For example, if more of a limited budget is allocated to Department A, A becomes more successful, which justifies allocating more resources to further its success.

At the same time, less is allocated to Department B; therefore B’s success drops, which justifies not allocating resources to B.

Over time, the performance of both parties reflects the way the resources were allocated — one keeps improving and the other stalls or declines.

You don't need to spend $250M on cars that already exist in our market, do you think Ford Australia is putting an effort into improving Puma stock issues?

Originally Posted by FTE217

If only business - politics - throw in the kitchen sink is as easy as Franco sees it.

Its not easy, but I'm pretty good at seeing when people don't even bother trying, it always begins with musical CEOs because when the going gets tough, they bail.

[FTE217]

When a global company there is always musical chairs though.
I think there was quite a few triers in that bundle.
Hubert French (US) 1925-1950
Charles Smith (UK/Canada) 1950-1959
John McIntyre (Canada) 1959-1963
Wallace Booth (US) 1963-1967
Bill Bourke (US) 1967-1970
Sir Brian Inglis (Aus) 1970-1981
Bill Dix (Aus) 1981-1990
Jac Nasser (Aus) 1990-1992
John Ogden (US) 1993-1995
David Morgan (Aus) 1995-1999
Geoff Polites (Aus) 1999-2005
Tom Gorman (US) 2005-2008
Bill Osborne (US) 2008
Marin Burela (Aus) 2008-2010
Bob Graziano (US) 2010-2015
Graeme Whickman (UK) 2015-2018
Kay Hart (NZ) 2018-2020
Andrew Birkic (Aust) 2020-

Forget the heydays of great volumes but damn hard pushing the barrow to your principles when the business model is sinking due to so so many factors in and out of your hands.
Putting aside "range" and all the other points mentioned by jpd and others if I was the investor like FUSA that ROI would have been bleak and obviously they couldn't find ways to counter without more investment, the wage bill alone I'd say we probably had some of the most well payed QC and line workers in the world......
I hear you what could have been, why could others Import and out to market more reasonable price compared to say a Mondeo/Focus and other new models.

Post Polities it was pretty much the horse had bolted no return.
Anyway water under the bridge mate, your no thailand buyer so no matter.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

When a global company there is always musical chairs though.
I think there was quite a few triers in that bundle.
Hubert French (US) 1925-1950
Charles Smith (UK/Canada) 1950-1959
John McIntyre (Canada) 1959-1963
Wallace Booth (US) 1963-1967
Bill Bourke (US) 1967-1970
Sir Brian Inglis (Aus) 1970-1981
Bill Dix (Aus) 1981-1990
Jac Nasser (Aus) 1990-1992
John Ogden (US) 1993-1995
David Morgan (Aus) 1995-1999
Geoff Polites (Aus) 1999-2005
Tom Gorman (US) 2005-2008
Bill Osborne (US) 2008
Marin Burela (Aus) 2008-2010
Bob Graziano (US) 2010-2015
Graeme Whickman (UK) 2015-2018
Kay Hart (NZ) 2018-2020
Andrew Birkic (Aust) 2020-

Forget the heydays of great volumes but damn hard pushing the barrow to your principles when the business model is sinking due to so so many factors in and out of your hands.
Putting aside "range" and all the other points mentioned by jpd and others if I was the investor like FUSA that ROI would have been bleak and obviously they couldn't find ways to counter without more investment, the wage bill alone I'd say we probably had some of the most well payed QC and line workers in the world......
I hear you what could have been, why could others Import and out to market more reasonable price compared to say a Mondeo/Focus and other new models.

Post Polities it was pretty much the horse had bolted no return.
Anyway water under the bridge mate, your no thailand buyer so no matter.

Look at this bullshit highlighted, speaks volumes - Billbo Baggins didn't even make it a year.

[FTE217]

why I said post Politis they were just muppets sadly it was all too late during his tenure.
He fought a great fight but up a creek without a paddle, IF only he was in CEO position long before '99.
Jac could have done something for Oz but he wanted global and only worried bout himself.
Christ I went to the Melb unveiling of FGX and listenning to Graziano made me sic.
I've met Whickman a number of times good bloke actually but he only did what had to do like most do in a sunk ship.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You've just described the system archetype 'success to the successful'.

It’s called opportunity cost, do we spend money here or does it get a better return spent another way.
With respect, that’s Ford’s business even if the end result is completely wrong, that’s decided by the board.

You don't need to spend $250M on cars that already exist in our market, do you think Ford Australia is putting an effort into improving Puma stock issues?

I wasn’t talking about Puma but since you mentioned it ICE Puma production has ended in Europe,
we may be getting a reworked next Gen Ecosport…..God help us…

Its not easy, but I'm pretty good at seeing when people don't even bother trying, it always begins with musical CEOs because when the going gets tough, they bail.

No one is defending Ford here, you may not like how things are but it’s just so frustrating to see
a manufacturer like Ford, do less than the minimum because it’s cheaper for them to not compete
in our market when so much is possible….and that’s what happens when driven by accountants.

Edit,
I forgot, Farley ripped $11 billion out of ICE production plans to fund his BEV dream
all with the approval of Bill Ford, no wonder ther isn’t money to do even the most basic
vehicles for our market…

[kevino]

Puma is still getting built in Romania. They have only recently introduced a face lift model.

Fiesta recently discontinued.

Focus stops in 2025

New Puma E Bev and Puma ICE will be built in the same Ford Romania plant.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kevino

Puma is still getting built in Romania. They have only recently introduced a face lift model.

Fiesta recently discontinued.

Focus stops in 2025

New Puma E Bev and Puma ICE will be built in the same Ford Romania plant.

Correct but FOA has stopped importing ICE Puma probably because Europe first
policy where they look after their own markets first and ROW buyers get anything left.
By that I mean,
Ford is also building a baby BEV Transit on the same platform, so I suspect that much of
the production space has been taken by the BEVs with just a few spots for the ICE Puma.
Again this sucks and typical of Europe looking after itself and why we need a better supplier.

Reports are that an new Ecosport has been approved for production in Valencia,Spain, perhaps
that is plan b for our region….Im not thrilled at that prospect, suspect it’s down market..

[kevino]

Ford Ute need to import some fuel efficient vehicles as an offset to the relative gas guzzlers in Ranger Everest Mustang to meet NVES
Mach E isn’t selling.
I guess time will reveal their plan or no plan.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kevino

Ford Ute need to import some fuel efficient vehicles as an offset to the relative gas guzzlers in Ranger Everest Mustang to meet NVES
Mach E isn’t selling.
I guess time will reveal their plan or no plan.

Actually, light commercials and ladder frame SUVs get a lot of concessions that make them safe until at least 2028.
If you’re going to sell polluting vehicles, then those are the ones to stick with.

[GT1533]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Look at this bullshit highlighted, speaks volumes - Billbo Baggins didn't even make it a year.

To his credit, John Ogden played a large part in getting approval to design and build Falcon (AU) in Australia, rather than import Taurus. It probably cost him his career when he returned to the US, but he knew it was the right decision for Australia.



.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Actually, light commercials and ladder frame SUVs get a lot of concessions that make them safe until at least 2028.
If you’re going to sell polluting vehicles, then those are the ones to stick with.

“Polluting vehicles” just a “wan*

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

“Polluting vehicles” just a “wan*

I didn’t mean anything by that
Every vehicle pollutes, some are just better at hiding it


Guys,
I’m going to take a little break away from this site

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I didn’t mean anything by that
Every vehicle pollutes, some are just better at hiding it


Guys,
I’m going to take a little break away from this site

Hope you’re ok jpd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Hope you’re ok jpd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing too serious, just one flu after another has left me run down

[kevino]

Get well soon JPD really enjoy your posts and knowledge

[jpd80]

Sorry I’m loopy on pain meds now

The Southern Hemisphere has 30% of the earth’s land mass and only 10% of the earth’s population.
We are responsible for a tiny fraction of light vehicular emissions compared to the Northern Hemisphere.

WTF is our government doing, NVES is an unnecessary and expensive exercise for bribing the green and their votes.
It will do nothing but drive up costs everywhere and hurt the working poor the government should be protecting,

By all means, support BEVs but stop ramming them down our throats.
Efficient diesel, Hybrids, PHEVs and Extended range EVs all have their parts to play.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

WTF is our government doing, NVES is an unnecessary and expensive exercise for bribing the green and their votes.
It will do nothing but drive up costs everywhere and hurt the working poor the government should be protecting,

By all means, support BEVs but stop ramming them down our throats.
Efficient diesel, Hybrids, PHEVs and Extended range EVs all have their parts to play.

Political movements to curry up favor in parliament house, they need the cooperation of the Greens and the Teals to maintain power.

They're also massively bleeding votes to the greens in inner city electorates, particularly Melbourne and Sydney, and sitting on a primary vote of in the low 30% mark.

It'll get worse depending on who they try curry favor with, especially if we end up with coalition/minority federal governments which is likely.

I hate Thailand Specials but I'll get nailed to the cross defending people being able to make the choices they want with their money, they're coming after me next.

There's absolutely zero discussion of this NVES possible without involving the shennanigans that happen in Canberra to lubricate the wheels of legislation

[ivorya]

We also need to remember that all pollution creates health related issues.
If by introducing NVES we cut down on a fraction of the issues, it's $$ they/Gov can use elsewhere and also $$$ in their bank in taxes.

If you don't believe, that's fine, maybe we still should have leaded fuel and have some real fun.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by ivorya

We also need to remember that all pollution creates health related issues.
If by introducing NVES we cut down on a fraction of the issues, it's $$ they/Gov can use elsewhere and also $$$ in their bank in taxes.

If you don't believe, that's fine, maybe we still should have leaded fuel and have some real fun.

What you say sounds reasonable but consider this,
Currently, Annual new vehicles are around a million vehicles give or take…

There’s at least 15 million vehicles on our roads and the average life expectancy of those vehicles is about 15 years
Some last longer but those are more than balanced out by write offs in accidents and attrition by age.

So if we could magically sell 100% BEVs tomorrow, it would take about 15 years give or take
to completely eliminate all ICE vehicles on our roads, so the affect on people’s health is going to take a long time
regardless of whether NVES is adopted or not….so all I’m saying is maybe there’s a better more efficient way.

When the government changed its mind and relaxed the timeline on Utes and larger SUVs, it showed
at least a willingness to consider some cases delaying full implementation until better alternatives arrive.
So perhaps trusting people to make good choices and encouraging them to do so is that better way…

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What you say sounds reasonable but consider this,
Currently, Annual new vehicles are around a million vehicles give or take…

There’s at least 15 million vehicles on our roads and the average life expectancy of those vehicles is about 15 years
Some last longer but those are more than balanced out by write offs in accidents and attrition by age.

So if we could magically sell 100% BEVs tomorrow, it would take about 15 years give or take
to completely eliminate all ICE vehicles on our roads, so the affect on people’s health is going to take a long time
regardless of whether NVES is adopted or not….so all I’m saying is maybe there’s a better more efficient way.

When the government changed its mind and relaxed the timeline on Utes and larger SUVs, it showed
at least a willingness to consider some cases delaying full implementation until better alternatives arrive.
So perhaps trusting people to make good choices and encouraging them to do so is that better way…

It's a no-win situation.
People don't like being told what to do and the narrative printed by our journos will always be the opposite, and follow the LNP 'NO' mentality.
Just look at the ciggys debate!
They are even complaining about the subsidies given to EV buyers.

Education is obviously the answer but how do you educate, persuade, help push a society in a particular direction without it being Trumpism?

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by ivorya

It's a no-win situation.
People don't like being told what to do and the narrative printed by our journos will always be the opposite, and follow the LNP 'NO' mentality.
Just look at the ciggys debate!
They are even complaining about the subsidies given to EV buyers.

Education is obviously the answer but how do you educate, persuade, help push a society in a particular direction without it being Trumpism?

Make the product better.

Give me an electric dual cab (yes,Franco, a dual cab) that costs similar to a diesel, can be charged in a short amount of time, can take me where mine can and doesn’t look like a Cybertruck, along with the required infrastructure, and I’ll buy it in a heart beat.

Until then, leave me alone to buy what I want.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Correct but FOA has stopped importing ICE Puma

afaik, there is no Eu5 Puma developed, I assume because volumes would be too low, and our petrol won't support Eu6, so we only get the EV.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Give me an electric dual cab.

there's a physical problem here, at least for the moment. With current battery technology, the size required to give a compact ute a decent range and payload just doesn't package well and you rapidly get into a battery v payload tradeoff.

for reference, the F150 Lighting basic battery weighs 2.7 tonnes!!! Even deleting the ICE engine and trans, the Lighning is a tonne heavier than the ICE version. I can't see how that can possibly work in a Thailand Special.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Make the product better.

Give me an electric dual cab (yes,Franco, a dual cab) that costs similar to a diesel, can be charged in a short amount of time, can take me where mine can and doesn’t look like a Cybertruck, along with the required infrastructure, and I’ll buy it in a heart beat.

Until then, leave me alone to buy what I want.

Thats ok, but when the taxes increase, the servicing goes thru the roof, fuel prices go up ............. PLs don't be a Karen and whinge!

It's not like any Gov has/had alluded to the immediate sales stop of ICE vehicles in fact, they have/had given a 10+yr timeline. Plenty of time for new technologies to worked on.

In Fact, watch this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZhKqpleAXM&t=639s Fingers crossed this technology moves forward at pace! You may just get your ute

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

afaik, there is no Eu5 Puma developed, I assume because volumes would be too low, and our petrol won't support Eu6, so we only get the EV.

That’s unfortunate, Ultra low sulphur petrol limit comes in later this year in December
so I expect oil companies will be importing it before then in order to be compliant