Pedestrian Run Down By Cyclist

[Guzz226]

Originally Posted by noflac52

I don't think that any reasonable people will be seeking perfection but us against them is not a good start and it seems that its the cycling fraternity creating the us and them scenario at the moment in legal matters instead of finding common ground.

In regard to my riding, driving etc you might reread my first post and to that I will add truck driving professionally also.

Some within the cycling world are - no doubt. There are always diverse views in any group, just like motorists.

Other groups like Amy Gillett Foubdation are trying to improve the roads for everyone.

I said countless times in this thread that any Us Vs Them approach is doomed as neither party wants to give in or compromise - not unique to cars Vs bikes either

[noflac52]

I'm not comparing you to anyone. Just responding to what is written and finding a bias in both directions.

Every accident scenario has likenesses and also differences. It would take years to cover these but you should know this already.

I don't remember saying your comments were wrong. I said that, in the way you presented them that they had bias toward trying to pass them off a fact when that isn't always the case.

Good on the Amy Gillette foundation if that is in fact what they are doing although that isn't obvious from the previous post about the new law.

It seems to me that you, tempted and many others on this thread are poles apart on this subject and finding common ground isn't a priority so if its indicative of many others opinions I will reiterate that the laws need to be balanced to keep all those with strong opinions on the subject happy on both ends of the spectrum.

For my part I'll do my best not to hit any cyclist with my motorcycle, car or truck and do my best not to get hit on my pushbike by staying off the roads until improvements are made that go some way to improving my safety. Pushbikes in heavy traffic are an unnecessary thing on our road system at the moment and increase the level of kaos that we all have to deal with. Fine on light traffic roads and tracks but in a bad environment in heavy traffic.

[Guzz226]

Sadly keeping the strong opinions at each end is impossible as they are so opposed - both extremes believe they are entitled and the other should do all the compromising.

I am not extreme. These are my views (recapped):
- happy to pay bike rego, licence etc - addresses entitlement
- dont believe in being legally right (and dead) at all costs. I actively avoid riding in heavy traffic as it is too dangerous - adds 50%/10km to my commute. Supportive of specific roads being designated "no go" for cyclists like toll roads are to protect some people from themselves and others
- happy to have same penalties for all road users ($ and points etc) - addresses issues of injustice
- I have had just as many confrontations with other cyclists calling them to account for their actions (eg running red) as I have had with motorists (perhaps even more given cyclists can hear you).

FYI these views have me pegged as a car extremist and not possibly a cyclist in some bike forums, to the point I no longer frequent them - fordforums is kinda level on the agro scale compared to some forums I have been involved in previously.

I am genuinely interested in how a car running into the back of a car is different to a car running into the back of a bike, more so given the introduction of 1m into the existing 'adequate space' rule.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Guzz226

Sadly keeping the strong opinions at each end is impossible as they are so opposed - both extremes believe they are entitled and the other should do all the compromising.

I am not extreme. These are my views (recapped):
- happy to pay bike rego, licence etc - addresses entitlement
- dont believe in being legally right (and dead) at all costs. I actively avoid riding in heavy traffic as it is too dangerous - adds 50%/10km to my commute. Supportive of specific roads being designated "no go" for cyclists like toll roads are to protect some people from themselves and others
- happy to have same penalties for all road users ($ and points etc) - addresses issues of injustice
- I have had just as many confrontations with other cyclists calling them to account for their actions (eg running red) as I have had with motorists (perhaps even more given cyclists can hear you).

FYI these views have me pegged as a car extremist and not possibly a cyclist in some bike forums, to the point I no longer frequent them - fordforums is kinda level on the agro scale compared to some forums I have been involved in previously.

I am genuinely interested in how a car running into the back of a car is different to a car running into the back of a bike, more so given the introduction of 1m into the existing 'adequate space' rule.

what happen if the bike moves out of that 1 mtr rule and the car has no time to react?

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by burnz

what happen if the bike moves out of that 1 mtr rule and the car has no time to react?

there is great potential that someone would die!
I have not approtioned blame in my statement. However the cautionary tale can only be, If you see a cyclist ahead, Know they are a legitimate and legally entitled road user and offer them the due respect they need and deserve. Slow down, look ahead and use caution. I doubt that doing this will delay anyones journey anywhere near as long as having to wait for an ambulance, the police etc after a collision.

JP

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

there is great potential that someone would die!
I have not approtioned blame in my statement. However the cautionary tale can only be, If you see a cyclist ahead, Know they are a legitimate and legally entitled road user and offer them the due respect they need and deserve. Slow down, look ahead and use caution. I doubt that doing this will delay anyones journey anywhere near as long as having to wait for an ambulance, the police etc after a collision.

JP

a lot of posts label blame on the car/truck driver, as if its their fault when a cyclist is hit...

NSW law states that if a bike rider lane is impeded, (parked car/ bus)
that the bike rider must yield and give way to traffic in the adjoining lane before continuing riding.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by burnz

a lot of posts label blame on the car/truck driver, as if its their fault when a cyclist is hit...

NSW law states that if a bike rider lane is impeded, (parked car/ bus)
that the bike rider must yield and give way to traffic in the adjoining lane before continuing riding.

Isnt that the same law for cars and other motorised vehicles.
Must give way to the right or those already in the lane you wish to enter.

JP

[cs123]

One interesting statistic is that the percentage of people who cycle has fallen over the last 30 years. I remember being a kid in the 70s, early 80s and the schools had bike racks full of bikes. Kids used to ride their bikes everywhere. Not so much today.

Why is it that there seems to be an issue now with cyclists and motorists now when there wasn't an issue 30-40 years ago? What has changed?

[Guzz226]

Originally Posted by burnz

what happen if the bike moves out of that 1 mtr rule and the car has no time to react?

As others have said if the cyclist was to move to the right and change lanes they would have to give way just like a car.

One grey area here is that the cyclist can move to the right within the lane ie not change lanes as such as they are still within their lane and result in contact with a passing car. I am not sure of liability.

A better comparison could be to motorbikes - they can move within a lane without changing lanes - any riders here that can share what the rules are?

With a 1m buffer if they are ridining in the left tyre line of cars, the cyclist has almost the same presence as a car. So moving out of the 1m they are probably changing lanes so would have to give way.

Fyi that is why cyclists don't ride in the gutter so they have presence as well as the option to go left in the event of an issue eg pothole etc not only right and in front of a cR.

That is why a 1m buffer min is so important - then drivers that leave you with closer to 10cm is more common than you may think - and there is no valid reason to put someone's life at risk like that.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by cs123

One interesting statistic is that the percentage of people who cycle has fallen over the last 30 years. I remember being a kid in the 70s, early 80s and the schools had bike racks full of bikes. Kids used to ride their bikes everywhere. Not so much today.

Why is it that there seems to be an issue now with cyclists and motorists now when there wasn't an issue 30-40 years ago? What has changed?

people have changed. society in general is very selfish these days. no one cares about others. its the age of entitlement and zero accountability for ones own actions.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by cs123

I remember being a kid in the 70s, early 80s and the schools had bike racks full of bikes. Kids used to ride their bikes everywhere. Not so much today.

Parents are too scared to let their kids walk or ride to & from school, you only have to see amount of parents in cars at schools.

[mik]

Originally Posted by LG17

The law does not force motorists to veer into oncoming traffic to pass bikes. Motorists have many choices, one of which is paying attention to the traffic ahead and not blaming a cyclist,a slow moving moped, a pedestrian, a truck or another car for their own poor decision making.

all true..... by the same token we can also say the same for bikes.

[brismike]

Originally Posted by cs123

One interesting statistic is that the percentage of people who cycle has fallen over the last 30 years. I remember being a kid in the 70s, early 80s and the schools had bike racks full of bikes. Kids used to ride their bikes everywhere. Not so much today.

Why is it that there seems to be an issue now with cyclists and motorists now when there wasn't an issue 30-40 years ago? What has changed?

Might be less kids riding bikes to school and for fun . . but there is an explosion in mainly guys riding bikes to commute to work. That's what I have found around where I live anyway.

Cheers Mike

[brismike]

Originally Posted by tempted

Most of the time....

In your opinion of course .. And you would know wouldn't you due to all the cycling you do?

Cheers Mike

ps - You know I promised myself I would stay out of this thread because of all the vile crap you were posting earlier. I see you are still going at it. I think I'll bale again.

[penske61]

This is like watching the tennis:
O - 15
15 - 15
15 - 30
30 - 30
30 - 40
40 - 40

[LG17]

Originally Posted by tempted

Oh, you're leaving the thread? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

That's a great way to get a point across - not!

It's strange how all your opinions and thoughts seem to have no basis in data, just what you've seen...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by tempted

What I've seen is all the evidence I need. My eyes don't lie.

no, your eyes don't lie, but what some of us have been trying to explain, is that your eyes see such a minute percentage of the overall picture, that its impossible to make a claim against the whole community based solely on what you have seen.

either way, your views aren't going to stop me riding. according to you, i'm somewhat of an anomaly as i don't break the law, but i know that i'm not unique, as i ride with many others that also don't break the law.

hopefully when you are behind the wheel of a car, you are a lot less agro than how you come across on the forum.

[Guzz226]

Sure you may have seen some poorly behaving cyclists at some point in time.

Doesn't mean all cyclists are like that. Or even most.

It just means you saw some nufties at that particular time. Nothing more. Nothing less. Nufties exist everywhere in life and yes sometimes they ride bikes. I don't like it either but I don't generalise and attack everyone who rides as a result.

I am sure you will respond that you have seen thousands and thousands of cyclists all behaving like hardened criminals every 5 minutes for the last 40 years.

So I will save you the trouble - it still doesnt mean that all cyclists are like that!!!!

The only thing it proves is that you have a closed mind and are unwilling to even try and understand the most basic facts that any reasonable person would accept. All the evidence required is here for all to see i the last 20 pages.

It is people just like you in both the cyclist and driver camps that take some sort of perverted pride in creating and maintaining such angst and hatred between the groups. Both camps have these extremists. Thankfully most people are more reasonable - probably because most people drive and ride (or at least are related or know someone who rides).

Sadly the very vocal majority on both sides are to blame, fanned with a healthy dose of sensationalism in the media.

And if you are so into pie charts and graphs happy to have a conversation about statistics and the concept of meaningful sample size.

[Captain Stubing]

Every person is morally and legally accountable for their actions, whether they are a pedestrian, driver or rider. If you do the wrong thing, then you should be held accountable.

Stereotyping works great - most days I'll drive my 4x4 to work, and in general running around, but I'll pull the motorbike out and commute at least once a week. 4x4's are bad for the environment, so I'm bad there. My Harley is a bit loud, so I could be considered a bikie. And I'm now a cyclist? Not sure how I should be pigeon-holed!

Back in 2006 I got cleaned up by a car pulling out in front of me, and spent 6 years on anti-inflammatory drugs for a disc problem created in my lower back.

Then I discovered that the exercise from cycling stopped my back from hurting, and I haven't been back on medication for my back. It's also lowered my blood pressure. I'm getting closer to being 50 now, so that's important! I now cycle to work when my shifts and circumstance permit, (and weather of late!). I've also taken up mountain biking, because its harder.

I'm also rebuilding an 80's sports car, I could be seen as a hoon.

I'll put on the lycra (polyester) gear to cycle around and ride to work, but I do my best not to be a nuisance to traffic. The polyester breathes and doesn't collect sweat, so it's functional. I'll let trucks go first if I know there is a bottleneck situation ahead so I don't hold them up.
Sometimes they acknowledge with a toot or a wave.

And when I get to work, I shower, put on my uniform and work as a police officer. That's when I get to hear everyone's opinion on who is right.

I pride myself on doing the right thing. Whether its driving a 4x4, motorcycle, pedestrian (common law is there to keep left!) or as a cyclist.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by tempted

My eyes don't lie.

Your eyes might not lie but you need something to analyse the data .

[ratter]

lol, you missed the point

[russellw]

There's an hour wasted. 50 posts deleted and a lot of edits to get this into some sort of reasonable shape and one contributor won't be back for a little while and when he is he won't have access to this part of the forum

It's an age old debate but extremism from either point of view is not going to be tolerated.

Russ

[blueoval]

Wow, I go away riding my bike for 48hours and I missed all the fun.

Prydey - Can I quote your post #536? It's got to be the most direct description of society today.

Swanny - Big Kudos to you mate. We need more examples like you bloke.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Guzz226

Sadly too many motorists take a perverted delight in buzzing cyclists and have no idea of the risks and consequences involved.

What is buzzing??

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by vztrt

What is buzzing??

I would have thought that term meant 'scaring'. The approaching driver from behind would scare any cyclists they approach by tooting, shouting/screaming, even hurling object or spraying liquid of some sort at them as they drove past etc.

[Batmobile]

As I continue to read the many posts , its clear , both sides ( extremists views) will never agree on who has their rightful place on the road. What saddens me most , is although on this , and many other forums , those sad views against cyclists are openly posted - and I am happy that they 've an opportunity to air their spleen , but I hope for the sake of us cyclists , that those whom express those disappointing views against cyclist , have the intelligence to act responsibility on the road , regardless of their views , as, failing to do so, will result in possible irreversible damage to the cyclist with family and love ones .
Don't let your views, be the reason a person , won't see their love ones again. Grow up, and absorb those 5 seconds that a cyclist may slow you down, as in turn , a buzzing or worst , may take a life .
I ve been hit by a driver , pushed on the traffic following , and then run over by a oncoming car and it's trailer .. I died on the road , was treated (CPR) on the road by another cyclist until the ambulance arrived , pronounced dead on thei arrival .
After leaving the hospital and spend some many months at home crying , I asked my wife to drive me to find the driver of the car that run over me with his car and trailer .. I found him and it's was the best rehab for both of us .
It gave us both an opportunity to catch up and discuss how it all happened .
I later found out , the driver that clipped me , was on his mobile , angry about the call, lost it and moved across his lane and hit me form behind. When pronounced dead by the ambulance , his was charged by the police , and then spend several months in hospital himself for depression . I never did meet the driver . I did meet the driver of the oncoming car , as I had been told by the nurses he had come to visit me in hospital whilst I was in intensive care in a coma.
We may have a view or opinion , that's fine in the main , but if your views or opinion may cause harm to another sole , then I ask you to stop and think about not just the damage you may cause on the forum but the harm it may cause to another in the real world .

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I would have thought that term meant 'scaring'. The approaching driver from behind would scare any cyclists they approach by tooting, shouting/screaming, even hurling object or spraying liquid of some sort at them as they drove past etc.

So the crazy motorist out there?

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Batmobile

As I continue to read the many posts , its clear , both sides ( extremists views) will never agree on who has their rightful place on the road. What saddens me most , is although on this , and many other forums , those sad views against cyclists are openly posted - and I am happy that they 've an opportunity to air their spleen , but I hope for the sake of us cyclists , that those whom express those disappointing views against cyclist , have the intelligence to act responsibility on the road , regardless of their views , as, failing to do so, will result in possible irreversible damage to the cyclist with family and love ones .
Don't let your views, be the reason a person , won't see their love ones again. Grow up, and absorb those 5 seconds that a cyclist may slow you down, as in turn , a buzzing or worst , may take a life .
I ve been hit by a driver , pushed on the traffic following , and then run over by a oncoming car and it's trailer .. I died on the road , was treated (CPR) on the road by another cyclist until the ambulance arrived , pronounced dead on thei arrival .
After leaving the hospital and spend some many months at home crying , I asked my wife to drive me to find the driver of the car that run over me with his car and trailer .. I found him and it's was the best rehab for both of us .
It gave us both an opportunity to catch up and discuss how it all happened .
I later found out , the driver that clipped me , was on his mobile , angry about the call, lost it and moved across his lane and hit me form behind. When pronounced dead by the ambulance , his was charged by the police , and then spend several months in hospital himself for depression . I never did meet the driver . I did meet the driver of the oncoming car , as I had been told by the nurses he had come to visit me in hospital whilst I was in intensive care in a coma.
We may have a view or opinion , that's fine in the main , but if your views or opinion may cause harm to another sole , then I ask you to stop and think about not just the damage you may cause on the forum but the harm it may cause to another in the real world .

Sorry to hear of this. Thanks for sharing your experience. It's certainly moved me not only as a cyclist but also as a driver to just that bit of extra care for others on the road.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Batmobile

As I continue to read the many posts , its clear , both sides ( extremists views) will never agree on who has their rightful place on the road. What saddens me most , is although on this , and many other forums , those sad views against cyclists are openly posted - and I am happy that they 've an opportunity to air their spleen , but I hope for the sake of us cyclists , that those whom express those disappointing views against cyclist , have the intelligence to act responsibility on the road , regardless of their views , as, failing to do so, will result in possible irreversible damage to the cyclist with family and love ones .
Don't let your views, be the reason a person , won't see their love ones again. Grow up, and absorb those 5 seconds that a cyclist may slow you down, as in turn , a buzzing or worst , may take a life .
I ve been hit by a driver , pushed on the traffic following , and then run over by a oncoming car and it's trailer .. I died on the road , was treated (CPR) on the road by another cyclist until the ambulance arrived , pronounced dead on thei arrival .
After leaving the hospital and spend some many months at home crying , I asked my wife to drive me to find the driver of the car that run over me with his car and trailer .. I found him and it's was the best rehab for both of us .
It gave us both an opportunity to catch up and discuss how it all happened .
I later found out , the driver that clipped me , was on his mobile , angry about the call, lost it and moved across his lane and hit me form behind. When pronounced dead by the ambulance , his was charged by the police , and then spend several months in hospital himself for depression . I never did meet the driver . I did meet the driver of the oncoming car , as I had been told by the nurses he had come to visit me in hospital whilst I was in intensive care in a coma.
We may have a view or opinion , that's fine in the main , but if your views or opinion may cause harm to another sole , then I ask you to stop and think about not just the damage you may cause on the forum but the harm it may cause to another in the real world .

Probably the best post I've read on Fordforums.com.au about anything, ever !

One can only hope twits like tempted are all mouth.

[SensationFG8]

I just hope the ban doesn't prevent tempted reading that post by bat, he surely needs that very real lesson in life. I think it really hits home to what we've all been saying. The anger is not worth the consequences no matter who was in the right or wrong.