Covid 19 -

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Another scalp. Getting nearer to Dan

Health Department boss Kym Peake resigns

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...12-p56e5f.html

Eccles was close. This is actually getting further. Can't work out from that article whether she resigned or her contract ended. The last few months would have taken an enormous toll on everyone involved, for what appears to be, very little outside recognition. A thankless job.

Meanwhile, Mr 71% has a job to do to recover the economic mess.

[Trevor 57]

what are some of you going to do if the inquiry finds that Andrews played no role in the Hotel Quarantine fiasco, if it all happened without his knowledge?

That ****ant O'Brien will wet himself if it does go that way

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

what are some of you going to do if the inquiry finds that Andrews played no role in the Hotel Quarantine fiasco, if it all happened without his knowledge?

That ****ant O'Brien will wet himself if it does go that way

I might be missing what you are saying, but, if the Premier doesnt get involved or signs off on a once in a 100 year quarantine event then what does he do?

He may not know or be directly responsible for every detail, but he should be across it.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I might be missing what you are saying, but, if the Premier doesnt get involved or signs off on a once in a 100 year quarantine event then what does he do?

He may not know or be directly responsible for every detail, but he should be across it.

some in here might have missed it, but right when it went pear shaped he said in one of his media conferences that as head of the Government he is accountable

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...tel-quarantine

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=290161229070293

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

some in here might have missed it, but right when it went pear shaped he said in one of his media conferences that as head of the Government he is accountable

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...tel-quarantine

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=290161229070293

Cool. We all agree he is ultimately accountable for the debacle Trev.

So why is he still there then

Is it "alternative" accountability

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Cool. We all agree he is ultimately accountable for the debacle Trev.

I don't why people keep going on about it, he made he statement months ago

As for accountable, how do they do that? I am not defending him, it is a serious question. And don't quote the OHS law as it just doesn't apply. Police charges, maybe, I don't know all the Crimes Act to make a call, it is not my area of specialty

* His Government boot him?
* You vote him out at the next election?
* Michael O'Brien getting a small groin twinge every time Andrew's opens his mouth?

Oh, hang on, lets get the Governor General or maybe the Governor of Victoria to sack him and his Government

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

what are some of you going to do if the inquiry finds that Andrews played no role in the Hotel Quarantine fiasco, if it all happened without his knowledge?

That ****ant O'Brien will wet himself if it does go that way

If he had no knowledge of this critical function?

Then it would prove beyond all doubt that he failed miserably. He created workplace manslaughter laws where it holds the top person responsible where they are unaware of critical functions.

The ONLY way he should escape responsibility is if he can prove that he ensured that there were checks and balances in place, that he made sure everyone covered off on foreseeable risks - and that they then lied to him. Continually saying they don't know who is responsible leads directly to failure at the top.

You have to open the other eye Trevor.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by tweeked

If he had no knowledge of this critical function?

Then it would prove beyond all doubt that he failed miserably. He created workplace manslaughter laws where it holds the top person responsible where they are unaware of critical functions.

The ONLY way he should escape responsibility is if he can prove that he ensured that there were checks and balances in place, that he made sure everyone covered off on foreseeable risks - and that they then lied to him. Continually saying they don't know who is responsible leads directly to failure at the top.

You have to open the other eye Trevor.

you are getting confused here, let's keep it simple

* as head of the Government he cannot be across EVERYTHING that happens under him - any senior manager will tell you that. They all rely on the competence of the people below them. If there was an issue, maybe he trusted people he shouldn't have (given hindsight)

* Did he make the actual decision to use security guards? I am fairly confident he didn't personally make that decision, but, as in my previous post, he is accountable for that decision

As for quoting Victoria's new WORKPLACE manslaughter legislation (section 39A to 39G of the OHS Act 2004), if you read the legislation (and I have as I teach this stuff most days) the responsibility and accountability will sit with the most senior person who made the decisions - and just to get it exactly right, the legislation is aimed at 'workplaces over which there is undoubted control'. Does Andrews have undoubted control over the security company, the hotels - NO!!!!, he does over his employees etc. I love how people quote law, but never quite get it right

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

As for quoting Victoria's new WORKPLACE manslaughter legislation (section 39A to 39G of the OHS Act 2004), if you read the legislation (and I have as I teach this stuff most days) the responsibility and accountability will sit with the most senior person who made the decisions - and just to get it exactly right, the legislation is aimed at 'workplaces over which there is undoubted control'. Does Andrews have undoubted control over the security company, the hotels - NO!!!!, he does over his employees etc. I love how people quote law, but never quite get it right

Interesting.....who has undoubted control over Aged Care....... It seems nobody at the moment.

If there is a fork lift accident in the workplace that results in serious injury or death, is the CEO in trouble or is it the warehouse manager? I would think warehouse manager. I know of some MDs running warehouses that shut down their QLD operations when QLD introduced the manslaughter law. It scared the bejesus out of them.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Interesting.....who has undoubted control over Aged Care....... It seems nobody at the moment.

technically the Feds, but Andrews stepped in to save lives

Originally Posted by T3rminator

If there is a fork lift accident in the workplace that results in serious injury or death, is the CEO in trouble or is it the warehouse manager? I would think warehouse manager. I know of some MDs running warehouses that shut down their QLD operations when QLD introduced the manslaughter law. It scared the bejesus out of them.

our legislation is really targeted at the top, but if they found that the WM gave the direction that resulted in a death and the MD had no knowledge what so ever then potentially the WM would cop it. It is really quite interesting legislation. I have been reading and working daily with legislation (first Road Law and now OHS) since 1987 and part of this this Manslaughter legislation is difficult to read and comprehend

It isn't as simple as "oh, someone died at work, you're being charged with manslaughter", there is built in quite a few 'tests' before charges are laid

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

As for quoting Victoria's new WORKPLACE manslaughter legislation (section 39A to 39G of the OHS Act 2004), if you read the legislation (and I have as I teach this stuff most days)

You are teaching it poorly then.

FROM WORKSAFE VIC

Officers
Officers of body corporates, partnerships, and unincorporated bodies or associations may also be charged with the offence of workplace manslaughter if their organisation holds specified duties under the OHS Act.

Officers are individuals at the highest level of an organisation, who have the power and resources to improve safety, including:

a director or secretary of a corporation

So, I know that this law will not apply to the Premier, I was just making the comparison as it is relevant. To help you out so that you do not lead whoever your students are astray, as that is worse than doing it to the people on here:

You cannot contract your way out of your duties of care.
An officer does not have to directly witness a failure, they are at the highest levels and so as such are expected to be looking at any agreement that may put people at risk.

Anyway, I know I am wasting my time. I hope that those that receive your 1 sided view get some form of balance in their education, whatever it may be for.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

what are some of you going to do if the inquiry finds that Andrews played no role in the Hotel Quarantine fiasco, if it all happened without his knowledge?

That ****ant O'Brien will wet himself if it does go that way

If that was the case then Dan Andrews failed miserly as a Premier of Victoria and should resign!
Remember Dan said he is ultimately responsible being Premier.

[FairmontGS]

[Trevor 57]

they can't be charged with OHS manslaughter and good luck bringing charges against the Crimes Act for manslaughter - it just won't happen so people need to stop dreaming

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by cheap

Wait for the findings from the inquiry, IMO one of two things will happen:

a) Andrews/others significantly involved/responsible. gross mismanagement, manslaughter, professional misconduct?

b) Andrews/others are incompetent F-wits, slap on the wrist

Given that +800 people died, and if no one goes to jail, the Fed's will call for a royal commission.

there will be no manslaughter charges

the Government can't be sacked

so stop dreaming

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 12th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

13 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.274% while active cases rise to 1,328. NSW recorded 5, WA & Queensland 3 each and SA recorded 1 case. Victoria reported no new cases for the last 24 hours for the 13th consecutive day.

3 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.256% and active cases rise to 53.

The UK had a new record 34,270 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 563 deaths.

Just over 144k new cases (a new record) in the USA yesterday and 1,479 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.310% and active cases rise to 35.6% with the raw numbers rising and now over 3.8M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 53M with the last 1M taking 1 day;
Global cases set a new daily high of 632,966, ~10k above the previous;
Europe passes 13M cases;
North America sets a new daily high of 157,900 (11/11);
The USA completes 163M, India 121M, Russia 66M, Italy 18M and Denmark 6M tests.

Latvia (533);
Norway (717);
Algeria (851) - the previous high on July 24th;
Belarus (1,098);
Moldova (1,331);
Croatia (3,082);
Georgia (3,120);
Greece (3,316) - 14% above the previous high;
Canada (5,516) - 19% above the previous high;
Morocco (6,195);
Austria (9,262) - 12% above the previous high;
Ukraine (11,057);
Germany (23,462);
United Kingdom (34,270) - 27% above the previous high;
the USA (144,289) on 11/11;

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by russellw

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 12th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

13 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.274% while active cases rise to 1,328. NSW recorded 5, WA & Queensland 3 each and SA recorded 1 case. Victoria reported no new cases for the last 24 hours for the 13th consecutive day.

3 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.256% and active cases rise to 53.

The UK had a new record 34,270 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 563 deaths.

Just over 144k new cases (a new record) in the USA yesterday and 1,479 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.310% and active cases rise to 35.6% with the raw numbers rising and now over 3.8M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 53M with the last 1M taking 1 day;
Global cases set a new daily high of 632,966, ~10k above the previous;
Europe passes 13M cases;
North America sets a new daily high of 157,900 (11/11);
The USA completes 163M, India 121M, Russia 66M, Italy 18M and Denmark 6M tests.

Latvia (533);
Norway (717);
Algeria (851) - the previous high on July 24th;
Belarus (1,098);
Moldova (1,331);
Croatia (3,082);
Georgia (3,120);
Greece (3,316) - 14% above the previous high;
Canada (5,516) - 19% above the previous high;
Morocco (6,195);
Austria (9,262) - 12% above the previous high;
Ukraine (11,057);
Germany (23,462);
United Kingdom (34,270) - 27% above the previous high;
the USA (144,289) on 11/11;

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

Hang on a minute; Biden said today that there were two hundred and twenty million thousand cases in the US of A...

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by russellw

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 12th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

13 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.274% while active cases rise to 1,328. NSW recorded 5, WA & Queensland 3 each and SA recorded 1 case. Victoria reported no new cases for the last 24 hours for the 13th consecutive day.

3 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.256% and active cases rise to 53.

The UK had a new record 34,270 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 563 deaths.

Just over 144k new cases (a new record) in the USA yesterday and 1,479 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.310% and active cases rise to 35.6% with the raw numbers rising and now over 3.8M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 53M with the last 1M taking 1 day;
Global cases set a new daily high of 632,966, ~10k above the previous;
Europe passes 13M cases;
North America sets a new daily high of 157,900 (11/11);
The USA completes 163M, India 121M, Russia 66M, Italy 18M and Denmark 6M tests.

Latvia (533);
Norway (717);
Algeria (851) - the previous high on July 24th;
Belarus (1,098);
Moldova (1,331);
Croatia (3,082);
Georgia (3,120);
Greece (3,316) - 14% above the previous high;
Canada (5,516) - 19% above the previous high;
Morocco (6,195);
Austria (9,262) - 12% above the previous high;
Ukraine (11,057);
Germany (23,462);
United Kingdom (34,270) - 27% above the previous high;
the USA (144,289) on 11/11;

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

Originally Posted by Burnout

Hang on a minute; Biden said today that there were two hundred and twenty million thousand cases in the US of A...

was he quoting cases in the USofA all up when russellw is quoting todays cases ??

[Polyal]

It is even staggering to think the systems are set up to find 140k people a day. Big country I get it but still pretty mind blowing.

[Bossxr8]

It's simply mind blowing that the Andrews government screw ups resulted in over 800 people dying. Yet lap dogs still claim it's got nothing to do with him.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's simply mind blowing that the Andrews government screw ups resulted in over 800 people dying. Yet lap dogs still claim it's got nothing to do with him.

where was that said?

In one breath your are talking about Andrews Government then you talk about 'him', either talk about one or the other, Andrews Government is made up of hundreds of people

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's simply mind blowing that the Andrews government screw ups resulted in over 800 people dying. Yet lap dogs still claim it's got nothing to do with him.

... while the other side of the political divide call for a lynching just like the old days. I though only America had red-necks but clearly we have some too.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by russellw

... while the other side of the political divide call for a lynching just like the old days. I though only America had red-necks but clearly we have some too.

ours are called 'bogan's



As a side note, the origins of the term 'red-neck' is not quite what people think it is

[Citroënbender]

In Africa; rooinek meant an English colonial, as opposed to Boers and Boetjies. In the eyes of Afrikaners and the like, an outsider.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's simply mind blowing that the Andrews government screw ups resulted in over 800 people dying. Yet lap dogs still claim it's got nothing to do with him.

It could be worse. Imagine if Trump was the Victorian premier!!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by cs123

It could be worse. Imagine if Trump was the Victorian premier!!!

At least he wouldn't sell out to the chinese. Would love to know andrew's intentions by signing that belt and road agreement

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

At least he wouldn't sell out to the chinese. Would love to know andrew's intentions by signing that belt and road agreement

There'd be no one left to care about any selling out.....

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

At least he wouldn't sell out to the chinese. Would love to know andrew's intentions by signing that belt and road agreement

I would love to know ScoMo & Co's intentions in leasing the Darwin Port to the Chinese

I would love to know why ScoMo & Co borrowed Chinese money for JobKeeper and JobSeeker payments during COVID-19

I would love to know why ScoMo & Co paid $30 million for a plot of land in Western Sydney that is valued at $3million


I could go on, but you get the point, plus I am not sure what this has to do with COVID-19

[Itsme]

deleted

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

At least he wouldn't sell out to the chinese.

no, all the people in aged care would be dead, the hospitals would have no space left with all the beds and ICU's filled up with COVID patients, no room for heart attack victims, road accident victims etc, but you get my point