Good value second hand cars - COVID times, Falcon/Commodore tax

[smoo]

Peak 1990s.

XJR with a misfire.



MB SL in the right colour combo and wheel package.

[Mulva]

49999km? Old guy could not bare to put 50k on it.

Such amazing condition except for the air-con controls...it's like he sat in the garage turning the aircon on and off using sandpaper.

https://www.grays.com/lot/0001-60012...utomatic-sedan

Funny how massive the tyre sidewall is by today's standards.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Out of curiosity I usually watch a handful of cars in Grays auctions each week, and I notice that for certain models there is a noticeable difference in what they sell for in NSW and Vic versus what they sell for in SA (SA being quite higher, not WA higher, but still higher).

Keep toying with the idea of taking an arbitrage punt one day if I can get one at a decent price, fly over for a weekend and watch some interstate footy, then driving it back (to save on transport costs)...see if I can do better than break even with it back in SA.

Not as a serious money making venture; just something to occupy me for a while, and if I come out of it with any beer money at the end then all good, but if all I end up with is catching an AFL game interstate and a road-trip then that's good enough.

I've noticed recently that a lot of cars that sell are being re-listed one to two weeks later. These are cars that 'properly' sold (sold above reserve), not cars that were 'referred'.

What would be likely reasons for that? I didn't think the buyer could pull out of the deal after the auction if they rock up and find the car is not as described? Wonder if at times the 'buyer' is actually the current owner trying to drive the price up, and they go too far trying to find the other party's highest price and end up winning their own auction?

Just curious if any knows common reasons why someone might bail, as when I see a car come up a second time it makes me worry the person that won it the first time ended up rejecting it due to issues rather than finance. We're talking cars in the $3k-$10k bracket, not spending hundreds on vehicle inspection, just taking the punt and buying off photos and description.

Hmmm, wonder if my questions in bold above are explained by this:

https://www.grays.com/content.aspx?block=ACCC-Statement

GRAYS FOUND TO HAVE MADE FALSE OR MISLEADING MOTOR VEHICLE DESCRIPTIONS

Grays misled some consumers about the quality, features, characteristics, and/or legal title of vehicles in listing vehicles for sale on its online auction platform.

If you purchased a vehicle or made a complaint to Grays about a vehicle you purchased from www.grays.com, and the vehicle was incorrectly described, you may be entitled to compensation.

Grays is reviewing its records to assess customer complaints received from 1 July 2020 to 30 June 2022 to consider eligibility for redress. Grays will shortly be contacting customers who may be entitled to redress for our conduct. If you have not already received some form of redress and do not receive contact from us within 14 days, you may contact Grays on 1800 958 463 / customerservice@grays.com.au to see if you are entitled to some form of redress.

If you have not previously made a complaint to Grays, but purchased a vehicle from Grays and have evidence to demonstrate that the vehicle was incorrectly described, you may contact Grays on 1800 958 463 / customerservice@grays.com.au to see if you are entitled to redress.

If you disagree with Grays’ assessment as to your entitlement to redress, please contact Grays to arrange a review by an independent third party at no cost to you.

Following court action by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), the Federal Court of Australia has ordered by consent that as a result of Grays incorrectly describing vehicles in the course of advertising and selling vehicles on its online auction platform, Grays engaged in misleading or deceptive conduct, and/or made false or misleading representations and/or engaged in conduct liable to mislead the public, and therefore contravened sections 18, 29(1)(a), 29(1)(g), 29(1)(m) and/or 33 of the Australian Consumer Law (ACL).

Grays acknowledged and admitted this conduct and expresses its sincere apologies to any customers affected by its conduct.

To minimise the risk of this happening again, Grays has undertaken to assume a number of obligations under a court enforceable undertaking accepted by the ACCC, which can be viewed at www.accc.gov.au. As part of this Undertaking, Grays has agreed to:

a) refrain from engaging in similar false or misleading conduct in the future;
b) remediate affected customers; and
c) issue this corrective notice.

I've noticed in last couple of months a couple of cars have "sold" but then been relisted (one has sold twice and been relisted twice), and when they have been relisted they have included much more photos showing issues such as rust etc that were not included in the original listing; while another of their sites is no longer giving much description and just says "Please refer to photos or arrange an inspection to view the condition of this vehicle".

I might be wrong but I am certain that the first time this Caprice was listed it only had the first 33 photos showing the car from lots of angles, then shots of the service history, then the pic of owner's manual and keys...I am sure pics 34-43 showing the rust etc were not in the original listing, but if wayback machine shows otherwise I will happily retract.

https://www.grays.com/lot/0001-10053...utomatic-sedan

Anyone that watches the Grays stuff though will know that sequence of photos is out of whack to their norm...that pic 33 showing owner's manual and keys is usually the last pic in their listing, or last photo before a video walk-around if there is a video - photos 34+ look to have been added in the later listing.

[smoo]

Nice V8 LTD.
Anyone who has owned one of these, what are they capable of fuel economy on a steady 100-110k cruise control?

[Citroënbender]

It’s an AU, cowl rust and lack of pollen filter… Plus you’d want to know if it’s had a later front end (AU2-BF1 type) fitted.

Would be surprised if it wouldn’t make low nines or high eights per hundred on steady cruise.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

It’s an AU, cowl rust and lack of pollen filter… Plus you’d want to know if it’s had a later front end (AU2-BF1 type) fitted.

Would be surprised if it wouldn’t make low nines or high eights per hundred on steady cruise.

What is different in the front end?
Over the years I’ve had a few 6 cylinder Fairlanes and an AU3 VCT manual XR6 Ute. All returned high 8s on the highway.
Have read the 5.0s better the VCT in fuel consumption but I don’t know if that’s an exaggeration or not.

[Citroënbender]

AU series 1 had slightly different lower wishbones, struts, smaller brakes on different hubs.

[Rob 351]

1984 XE ESP (Originally 6 cylinder auto) with retro fitted 351, manual gearbox and colour change sold at Gray’s last night for 52k plus 7.5% buyers fee.
Is that good value in 2024? Seems a little high for me!

[HIPO]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...b-e2cb122cf1bd

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

1984 XE ESP (Originally 6 cylinder auto) with retro fitted 351, manual gearbox and colour change sold at Gray’s last night for 52k plus 7.5% buyers fee. Is that good value in 2024? Seems a little high for me!

Agreed.
Especially with the changes.

[anobserver]

Budget fun:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/?q=...e.ST.%29%29%29

Comparably priced with new shopping trolley appliances starting at 30k and going up from there.

[DFB FGXR6]

Friday night used car cruising, wondering what new-Mustang money would buy elsewhere.

A new Darkhorse is not that far away from these two Aston Martin V8 Vantages, both sadly with the Sportshift transmission, but with the later 4.7 engine. The first one would be my pick, I don't like the black interior, but I do prefer the grey exterior over black.

https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars
https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars

This Jaguar XKR would be hard to resist at that price.............if only it wasn't black on black, so boring.

https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars

And this Z4M is one of my favorites, again black exterior but the red interior saves it. Not too many km's or too expensive either, leaving some money on the table for a CSL carbon fiber intake system.

https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars

[Sprintey]

That Jag and Z4...

Something offbeat, that MX30 electric that was 60-70 on release just 3 years ago is now sub 30s

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...G-AD-23120155/

That + solar for groceries and just hope the battery remains happy

[anobserver]

Was always partial to the German take on minimalism.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/bmw/m3/pure-badge/

For me the m3 was about the right balance of size and power. Though more of a grand tourer than a sports car.

[anobserver]

The Maserati is just automotive porn, but sounds good too:

https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars

[Sprintey]

Quick update of what I followed for last few years

cheapest petrol FPace now 30
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...G-AD-23404282/

cheapest V6 supercharged petrol RRS hanging around that 40 mark
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...E-AD-17674100/

cheapest petrol XE now in the mid teens, behold the sedan cooties in full effect
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...G-AD-23491649/

VF Calais wagons lowest ask is mid teens too
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...G-AD-23358569/

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by anobserver

The Maserati is just automotive porn, but sounds good too:

https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars

Hard to know which would be more reliable...........or more troublesome. The Jag or the Masa?

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by anobserver

Was always partial to the German take on minimalism.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/bmw/m3/pure-badge/

For me the m3 was about the right balance of size and power. Though more of a grand tourer than a sports car.

I think the role is now taken by the M2, and even then, its too heavy and bloated looking. As times goes on, those E46 and E90-series M3's skillfully illustrate what BMW once did like no other.

[anobserver]

With apologies to Leo Toystoy, i suspect expensive sports cars are alike, each expensive in their own way.

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I think the role is now taken by the M2, and even then, its too heavy and bloated looking. As times goes on, those E46 and E90-series M3's skillfully illustrate what BMW once did like no other.

In agreement there, as the models age they grow bigger and heavier. In so doing they lose the original designers essence.

I used to joke when we bought the magna, it was in the large car category.

By the time we moved it on, it was dwarfed by a typical dual cab.

[Sprintey]

Yep I was surprised how much bigger an FG was than an AU, then the dual cabs said hold my beer, they're huge.

Why resist it, just buy a 5.3m long brachiosaurus

For extra giggles, compare a VS Commodore to a new Corolla

(Tolstoy reference was mint, going to look that one up!)

[smoo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Friday night used car cruising, wondering what new-Mustang money would buy elsewhere.

A new Darkhorse is not that far away from these two Aston Martin V8 Vantages, both sadly with the Sportshift transmission, but with the later 4.7 engine. The first one would be my pick, I don't like the black interior, but I do prefer the grey exterior over black.

https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars
https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars

This Jaguar XKR would be hard to resist at that price.............if only it wasn't black on black, so boring.

https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars

And this Z4M is one of my favorites, again black exterior but the red interior saves it. Not too many km's or too expensive either, leaving some money on the table for a CSL carbon fiber intake system.

https://www.lorbek.com.au/stock/deta...-prestige-cars

Have you cancelled a new Mustang order and are looking at something else?
I have a soft spot for the 996 911.
Prefer facelifted, can get manual ones starting from $80k while the C4S models I’ve had my eye go at around $100k. Probably a safe buy.
Although in the last month or so the asking price of this has dropped $10k.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SE-AD-17420489

As for cars getting bigger. I took this photo when I had my old S Class, this POS behind it is suppose to be MBs compact car, I think.
Those S Class/7 Series were the biggest things on the road back in the 1990s.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by smoo

Have you cancelled a new Mustang order and are looking at something else?

I have a soft spot for the 996 911. Prefer facelifted, can get manual ones starting from $80k while the C4S models I’ve had my eye go at around $100k.

Because of the endless delays, I have been keeping an eye on a couple of cars over the last 12 months, if the right one came up, I would cancel the Mustang. I'm not willing to compromise on colour and engine, so that would explain why I haven't jumped. My S650 shipped on the 12th of August, so its now on the way. Knowing my luck, the moment the car lands, that "right car" will appear on CarSales.

As for the 996, I never liked the original with the droopy headlights, the same used on the first-gen Boxter. So yes, the facelift 996's are the ones to get. Just soooo expensive for such an old car.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Because of the endless delays, I have been keeping an eye on a couple of cars over the last 12 months, if the right one came up, I would cancel the Mustang. I'm not willing to compromise on colour and engine, so that would explain why I haven't jumped. My S650 shipped on the 12th of August, so its now on the way. Knowing my luck, the moment the car lands, that "right car" will appear on CarSales.

As for the 996, I never liked the original with the droopy headlights, the same used on the first-gen Boxter. So yes, the facelift 996's are the ones to get. Just soooo expensive for such an old car.

That is a dilemma I could live with.
Yeah not wrong and that’s entry level pricing for a manual 911 of any generation.
Probably not going to drop in value too much.
996 C4S prices are similar to 997 Carerra S manual, I wouldn’t complain with either and it come down to spec or colour combos as to what I’d choose.
Last time I counted there were 11 or 12 993 turbos on carsales all with asking prices between $450-600k. Unless they’re trying to appeal to potential UK buyers, surely that is market saturation and those prices can’t be sustained.

[FTE217]

Ah you only live once and you never know for how long
I’ve dived into BM’s and Porsche.
Sheer driving pleasure is worth any concerns , as long as you can afford and get one still with some warranty and extend worth every cent but buying something too old out of warranty your just either lucky or not - I wouldn’t take that gamble.
I luv Jags certain models but that’s a bigger lottery than the usual euro suspects I can’t bring myself ever to jump into one.
911’s have forever been on my wish list but damn that marque holds its value like mad against all odds but I know why as mentioned, one day I’m going to take plunge.


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