Ford must be chuffed... - Page 2

SSbaby · 07-04-2005, 03:51 PM

I find it bizarre that Holden and Ford would just turn the wagon market over to Subaru.

If every manufacturer is reverting to building 4WDs, why the need to abandon wagons? They are more car-like and have versatility. They won't disappear. Fads are cyclic.

AlbertM · 07-04-2005, 06:44 PM

Can't say i would be impressed if Holden were scaled back. Holden it self is healthy but the US might drag it down or make it hard for Holden.

I'm blue as they come but when the US stuffs a good Aussie thing, I'm not happy.

Brute33 · 07-04-2005, 07:43 PM

This isn't good for the economy and the Australian car market in general if this becomes reality.

Psycho Chicken · 07-04-2005, 08:21 PM

What of the plans to move Monaro and Ute production stateside? Surely that could happen and Holden could import them.

Ford have a chance here. Bring back the V8 wagon. Bring back Fairmont Ghia wagons. Bring back manuals in Fairmonts and Ghias. Maybe even a small run coupe. People want options! For the love of god, DO SOMETHING! At the end of the day, blue or red, aussies are more loyal to an Australian product than some imported seppo thing. Fill in those niche markets and you will have Aussies red and blue going for them.

SOMEONE AT FORD PLEASE LISTEN! Another shift at Broady, pump up 4.0 production some how, whatever it takes, this is the chance to make back lost ground from dropping the V8 20 years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Holden getting screwed? I can't seem to be dissapointed, oh wait, I'm not!

No doubt people will lose jobs if this is as bad as it made out, wanna go laugh at them and their families? No? Good, shut the hell up. Life isn't all Wheels and motor figures you know.

Kryton · 07-04-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Bring back the V8 wagon. Bring back Fairmont Ghia wagons. Bring back manuals in Fairmonts and Ghias. People want options!

i agree entirely. there are a range of engines/gearboxes and there are a range of bodyshells. surely its not that hard to let the consumer order what they want and not have what they get told they can have.
(yes obviously a V8 in a Terri couldnt be an option)

**Polyal** · 07-04-2005, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I find it bizarre that Holden and Ford would just turn the wagon market over to Subaru.

If every manufacturer is reverting to building 4WDs, why the need to abandon wagons? They are more car-like and have versatility. They won't disappear. Fads are cyclic.

Just because its more car like it doesn't mean its better. A territory handles the same, if not better than the wagon IMO; much more complex setup that works a treat.

Also heard another rumour from a good source that Holden are relocating alot of staff to the US; mainly in design, which means big job losses here.

SSbaby · 07-04-2005, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Just because its more car like it doesn't mean its better. A territory handles the same, if not better than the wagon IMO; much more complex setup that works a treat.

Also heard another rumour from a good source that Holden are relocating alot of staff to the US; mainly in design, which means big job losses here.

Nobody is referring to handling, it's more about practicality and stowage space.

Anyway, don't believe everything you read in the press, the Territory has a higher centre of gravity than your conventional wagon... and I reckon the slalom figures would support my case... if they ever ran tests that way.

flavze · 07-04-2005, 11:39 PM

I reckon it's all a load of trollop. If it's true why would holden be investing millions in expanding it's factory? Why also would they be changing their work hours to 1.5 shifts a day to keep up with demand?
And considering since the introduction of the one-tonner holden ute sales have consistently been near or better than fords why would they drop it? I would reckon they would drop the standard ute and stick a tub on the back like the falcon rather than drop the tonner.

Psycho Chicken · 08-04-2005, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

i agree entirely. there are a range of engines/gearboxes and there are a range of bodyshells. surely its not that hard to let the consumer order what they want and not have what they get told they can have.
(yes obviously a V8 in a Terri couldnt be an option)

How hard is it to slot XR6 driveline into a Fairmont Ghia? It's the same body, all that will change is the ECU. For god's sake bring the Fairlanes and LTDs into line with Holden.

If any of this is true Ford have a golden chance that they may never get again.

montyv8 · 08-04-2005, 05:52 AM

hmmmmm..... interesting stuff indeed.....

as a worker at holdens Elizabeth plant, i think i would be a bit upset if holden shut up shop. young Steffo isn't too bright is he?

we hear sooooo many rumours everyday at work, 95% of it is utter shite. todays one was "third shift (night shift) is being cancelled in a months time, several hundred people are going to lose their jobs". turns out it was a union rep trying to make himself look important......

I have seen several VE shells, i think they will sell well, especially the performance ones such as the SS, which apparently will come standard with 20" rims.......
seen pics of the Ute too.... hell sexy.

as for the Territory style vehicle, its something they want to do. havent heard anything about wagons getting cancelled. that would be a bad move. we build heaps of wagons, would be silly to stop.

something interesting i saw the other day in my travels at work, a couple of one-tonner shells/chassis with all-wheel-drive floor pans and guards. didn't know they were in the current line up.......

and if anyone is wondering how true some of the above is, we had a "state of the nation" address (as we like to call them) at the end of last year where they filled us in on all the goings on, and showed us the pics. and the speaker at this address? Dennis Mooney.

**Polyal** · 08-04-2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Nobody is referring to handling, it's more about practicality and stowage space.

Anyway, don't believe everything you read in the press, the Territory has a higher centre of gravity than your conventional wagon... and I reckon the slalom figures would support my case... if they ever ran tests that way.

I know my physics. I was talking about the technical side of things. They do the "moose test", but who the heck does slalom anyway? Other than track days it's just not done (consecutive violent lane changes).

I think you might be surprised with the way the terry handles itself. IMO you have rocks in your head if you had a family and brought a conventional wagon over a base model terry. As far as I am concerned the wagon is a waste of time and will be gone all together within 5-10 years easy.

EFFalcon · 08-04-2005, 10:50 AM

i'm sorry, but i'd prefer a luxo wagon then a luxo territory.
i simply don't want a car THAT big.

SSbaby · 08-04-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think you might be surprised with the way the terry handles itself. IMO you have rocks in your head if you had a family and brought a conventional wagon over a base model terry. As far as I am concerned the wagon is a waste of time and will be gone all together within 5-10 years easy.

That's a big statement. I hope Audi, BMW and Merc are reading this...

**Polyal** · 08-04-2005, 11:07 AM

well see if we can get some Vfacts....im sure they will tell the storey.

Since when were we talking about OS? Audi and alike have nothing to do with this, there intake here would be **** poor; the euro market is different.

**Polyal** · 08-04-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

i'm sorry, but i'd prefer a luxo wagon then a luxo territory.
i simply don't want a car THAT big.

lol...you dont have a choice..luxo wagons died wth the introduction of BA. Its a shame, but the wagon offers nothing more than the terry. Im not saying that luxo wagons aren't great, but times have changed. Fuel consumption isn't that far apart, and the terry handles better 99% of the time anyway.

Give me a sec and ill look up the prices of similarly speced terry's and wagons.

EDIT:
TX RWD: $38 990
Only wagon you can get with BA - Futura: $40 685

Now if you were a family, with say 2.5 kids; what would you get?

SSbaby · 08-04-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

well see if we can get some Vfacts....im sure they will tell the storey.

Since when were we talkign about OS? Audi and alike have nothing to do with this, there intake here would be **** poor; the euro market is different.

Yes but they do sell here. Cars are also about trends. If Ford and Holden abandon the wagon... what are the alternatives? Jap (Subaru) or Euro... if traditional wagon buyers stop buying Aussie and look to buying alternative offerings at a higher price, there is a lucrative market for them there... that's probably a good business case to continue building the wagon.

ford.boy · 08-04-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

lol...you dont have a choice..luxo wagons died wth the introduction of BA. Its a shame, but the wagon offers nothing more than the terry. Im not saying that luxo wagons aren't great, but times have changed. Fuel consumption isn't that far apart, and the terry handles better 99% of the time anyway.

Give me a sec and ill look up the prices of similarly speced terry's and wagons.

EDIT:
TX RWD: $38 990
Only wagon you can get with BA - Futura: $40 685

Now if you were a family, with say 2.5 kids; what would you get?

Get a better looking wagon in the falcons and then we'll have some sakes come through. Right now, the back and of the wagon AU base looks like it did in 98, dated and weird.

I believe if this is all true, Gorman will capitalise on the opportunity and bring some model differentiation, some (more) streetcred and a more clearly defined structure to the copperhead model line up.That should come up trumps on the mess that Holden is reportedly in.

**Polyal** · 08-04-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Yes but they do sell here. Cars are also about trends. If Ford and Holden abandon the wagon... what are the alternatives? Jap (Subaru) or Euro... if traditional wagon buyers stop buying Aussie and look to buying alternative offerings at a higher price, there is a lucrative market for them there... that's probably a good business case to continue building the wagon.

The wagon sales do not create a business case to further develop them; unfortunatley it all comes down to cash. You cannot have a car in every market; no matter how big or small; Holden will learn this the hard way eventually. Australia just doesn't have the volume; hence while you see so much crap in the US.

Traditional wagon buyers will move to the terry or go import; its that simple. If you objectively look at it what doesn't the terry do that a wagon does?

This has soo gone off topic..lol

SSbaby · 08-04-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

The wagon sales do not create a business case to further develop them; unfortunatley it all comes down to cash. You cannot have a car in every market; no matter how big or small; Holden will learn this the hard way eventually. Australia just doesn't have the volume; hence while you see so much crap in the US.

Traditional wagon buyers will move to the terry or go import; its that simple. If you objectively look at it what doesn't the terry do that a wagon does?

This has soo gone off topic..lol

Anyway, I guess we'll just have to disagree but if there is a niche for them, I believe they will build it. Don't forget about Crewman. It's selling at a rate of 600/month... and that's around less than half of the sales rate of the Commy wagon. It's forced Ford to have a rethink and introduce a competitor.

My point is the volumes are sufficiently there to continue wagon production.

Cheers

**Polyal** · 08-04-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Anyway, I guess we'll just have to disagree but if there is a niche for them, I believe they will build it. Don't forget about Crewman. It's selling at a rate of 600/month... and that's around less than half of the sales rate of the Commy wagon. It's forced Ford to have a rethink and introduce a competitor.

My point is the volumes are sufficiently there to continue wagon production.

Cheers

Thats fair enough.

I dont think Ford need a duelcab falcon 4x4. The crewman is still in its honeymoon-period. A typical tradey is very concious of being better than his mates; so he wants the newest thing out; it will wear off soon enough and steady down.

There is a market there, Ford R5...remember that?; im sure Holden doesn't want Joe Public too; but its very tight.

Ford need a 4x4 RTV and thats it. The ute line up is very strong.

Crazed · 08-04-2005, 07:10 PM

Holden get rid of the wagon? I highly doubt it. The Commodore wagon is the third best selling vehicle in the Holden line-up, after the Commodore Sedan and Astra. They even sell more wagons than Utes, One Tonners and Crewman combined. Oh and there is also the two grand premium the wagon commands over the sedan.
Im a Ford fanatic but it still good to have healthy competition in all segments Ford is in.

xr8gn3 · 08-04-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Really though, as long as the VE is a fat pig like the BA, I'm good. They'll completley lose their speed advantage after that.

Im with you on that one......then will see how holden likes it with a couple hundred extra kilos.

Bossxr8 · 08-04-2005, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyv8

hmmmmm..... interesting stuff indeed.....

as a worker at holdens Elizabeth plant, i think i would be a bit upset if holden shut up shop. young Steffo isn't too bright is he?

we hear sooooo many rumours everyday at work, 95% of it is utter shite. todays one was "third shift (night shift) is being cancelled in a months time, several hundred people are going to lose their jobs". turns out it was a union rep trying to make himself look important......

I have seen several VE shells, i think they will sell well, especially the performance ones such as the SS, which apparently will come standard with 20" rims.......
seen pics of the Ute too.... hell sexy.

as for the Territory style vehicle, its something they want to do. havent heard anything about wagons getting cancelled. that would be a bad move. we build heaps of wagons, would be silly to stop.

something interesting i saw the other day in my travels at work, a couple of one-tonner shells/chassis with all-wheel-drive floor pans and guards. didn't know they were in the current line up.......

and if anyone is wondering how true some of the above is, we had a "state of the nation" address (as we like to call them) at the end of last year where they filled us in on all the goings on, and showed us the pics. and the speaker at this address? Dennis Mooney.

20 inch rims standard on SS, sure buddy, and its Denny Mooney, not Dennis. You say you work for Holden and you don't even know the head honchos name?

AUIII XR8 MAN · 08-04-2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

That sucks .. it means that Ford won't have the pressure to perform. Also, the Show Specials were always something interesting.
I suppose the cancellation of the wagon ( maybe a Holden 'territory' type vehicle in the pipeline?? ) means the AWD versions bite the dust too

I think there enough other car maker to keep Ford on there tows for most models across the range these days. It will be the V8 performance models that could be in trouble if there are no others to complete agaist but i don't think that will happen.

montyv8 · 09-04-2005, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

20 inch rims standard on SS, sure buddy, and its Denny Mooney, not Dennis. You say you work for Holden and you don't even know the head honchos name?

lol.... so i got his name mixed up....
i have enough trouble remembering the bodyshop's manager's name.
tell ya what, PM NeedPSI (Ehab, work's in general assembly, day shift) or Fairmont1998 (Darrin, also day shift general assembly) or BOSS260 (Dan, works about 30metres away from me in bodyshop) and ask any of them if i work there.....

or you could ask Walkinshaw, or MightyEFghia, or AaronEF8............ i think every SA E-series member knows i work there.
hell, even my wife works there... (gen assembly, afternoon shift, works in the same group as Darrin, just different shift)
or would you like me to scan a copy of one of my pay slips and my license?
i can pm you my ID number and you can call the factory at elizabeth and see if the name that they give you matchs the one on my license. (not that they'd give out that info, but theres no harm in trying....)
its a good thing i do work there, or i'd have a hard time explaining the ten or so holden uniforms in my wardrobe.

tell you what, i'll get someone to take a pic of me in my uniform at work. not inside the factory tho, i like having a job...
i'll even hold a sign saying "happy now ya PEDANTIC BASTARD?"

still cant figure why you'd think i would make up something like that (the "i work at holden" bit)

and whats so hard to believe about a factory car having 20's anyway?
wasn't long ago that the idea of 18's on a factory car wouldn't have been taken seriously i spose...

pfffft what kind of a stupid name is denny anyway??

have a nice day ;)

montyv8 · 09-04-2005, 06:56 AM

PS: WTF do you think DENNY is short for?

My wife insisted I add that

09-04-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

How hard is it to slot XR6 driveline into a Fairmont Ghia? It's the same body, all that will change is the ECU. For god's sake bring the Fairlanes and LTDs into line with Holden.

If any of this is true Ford have a golden chance that they may never get again.

Not that hard at all. :p just getting them to do it. like putting a Boss 260/290 drivetrain in anything you want.

:

**M&Ms** · 09-04-2005, 06:03 PM

standard 20 inch rims on the SS aye? Well I doubt the coppers who drive these things would be to impressed with having to pay for 20 inch rubber all the time (or whoever pays for their rubber

: ). Neither would the average family man. maybe 20 inch wheels would be a factory option, and not standard.

Bossxr8 · 09-04-2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyv8

lol.... so i got his name mixed up....
i have enough trouble remembering the bodyshop's manager's name.
tell ya what, PM NeedPSI (Ehab, work's in general assembly, day shift) or Fairmont1998 (Darrin, also day shift general assembly) or BOSS260 (Dan, works about 30metres away from me in bodyshop) and ask any of them if i work there.....

or you could ask Walkinshaw, or MightyEFghia, or AaronEF8............ i think every SA E-series member knows i work there.
hell, even my wife works there... (gen assembly, afternoon shift, works in the same group as Darrin, just different shift)
or would you like me to scan a copy of one of my pay slips and my license?
i can pm you my ID number and you can call the factory at elizabeth and see if the name that they give you matchs the one on my license. (not that they'd give out that info, but theres no harm in trying....)
its a good thing i do work there, or i'd have a hard time explaining the ten or so holden uniforms in my wardrobe.

tell you what, i'll get someone to take a pic of me in my uniform at work. not inside the factory tho, i like having a job...
i'll even hold a sign saying "happy now ya PEDANTIC BASTARD?"

still cant figure why you'd think i would make up something like that (the "i work at holden" bit)

and whats so hard to believe about a factory car having 20's anyway?
wasn't long ago that the idea of 18's on a factory car wouldn't have been taken seriously i spose...

pfffft what kind of a stupid name is denny anyway??

have a nice day ;)

Settle down about buddy, it was supposed to be a humourous observation, do you really think I care where you work?
As for 20's, maybe on one of the higher end HSV's, but not on the SS.

montyv8 · 10-04-2005, 01:25 PM

it was humourous lol, i had a big smile on my face the whole time i was typing that responce.
i was just passing on what i heard. I might not have heard the HSV bit. I don't usually pay too much attention to what goes on there, i only build them lol, i'm a ford nut remember lol.