GRWD: what does the future hold?

[eb2fairmont]

Yes it is.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Isn't the PowerShift trans a FWD auto???

Probably why, Ford Australia is proud to be the first RWD application of EcoBoost and Powershift. That further solidifies the GRWD talk then! Also, it strengthens our case to lead the GRWD design here in Australia.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Probably why, Ford Australia is proud to be the first RWD application of EcoBoost and Powershift. That further solidifies the GRWD talk then! Also, it strengthens our case to lead the GRWD design here in Australia.

Yes, and it surprises me that the media haven't picked up on it - but then again good news about Ford doesn't seem to sell as many papers!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Not necessarily. Ford and ZF developed the PowerShift dual clutch gearbox together in North America. Although, I understand, Ford has taken over the running of the operation.

Hi Phillyc,
I have it on good authority from an ex-power train engineer that
no one in Ford US power train is working on a RWD DSG application.

That said, I suspect that DSG will go into the Mustang at a later date
possibly as an update to the 2012 Mustang.

Makes me wonder if FoA are talking directly to Getrag regarding a DSG
for the EB I-4 Falcon or whether the US Ford 6-speed auto gets used....

John

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Hi Phillyc,
I have it on good authority from an ex-power train engineer that
no one in Ford US power train is working on a RWD DSG application.

That said, I suspect that DSG will go into the Mustang at a later date
possibly as an update to the 2012 Mustang.

Makes me wonder if FoA are talking directly to Getrag regarding a DSG
for the EB I-4 Falcon or whether the US Ford 6-speed auto gets used....

John

Or the ZF.

On that front, Falcon has more chance of becoming a FWD Taurus than it will of ever getting the 8 Speed ZF Auto. The next step for Falcon is the lower spec models will get the Corporate 6 Speed for the XT, XR6 and G6, with the ZF to remain in the upper spec models.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Or the ZF.

On that front, Falcon has more chance of becoming a FWD Taurus than it will of ever getting the 8 Speed ZF Auto. The next step for Falcon is the lower spec models will get the Corporate 6 Speed for the XT, XR6 and G6, with the ZF to remain in the upper spec models.

yes....that 5sp was only a stop gap (though is proving a decent one at that..). Question for me is will ford adopt the higher rated ZF 6sp? With constant talk of the torque of the new coyote v8 SC i think maybe they will have to look at doing that....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Or the ZF.

On that front, Falcon has more chance of becoming a FWD Taurus than it will of ever getting the 8 Speed ZF Auto. The next step for Falcon is the lower spec models will get the Corporate 6 Speed for the XT, XR6 and G6, with the ZF to remain in the upper spec models.

That would make sense because it affects quite a few vehicles per year
as XR8/G6T/G6ET only account for roughly 10-15% of production.

I wonder whether we could see phasing out the 5-speeder as soon as FG II....

[Chilliman]

According to Paul Gover, this is what the future for GRWD holds:

Falcon to fly on Mustang platform
By Paul Gover
Herald Sun
15 January 2010
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The 2011 Ford Mustang. Ford Australia's Marin Burela stressed that planning for the next new Falcon is barely into the research stage, hinting that it would be possible for the car to share much of its basic mechanical package with the next all-new Mustang.
The legendary Ford Mustang will be twinned with Australia's own Ford Falcon in a plan to drive the local brand forward beyond 2015.

The current FG Falcon is safe for at least another four years as Ford's local spearhead and plans are beginning to integrate its replacement into a new-look, globally-focussed One Ford organisation.

The move is unlikely to affect Ford Australia's local manufacturing operation, with the Falcon-based Territory SUV also set for an even longer run through to 2016, but will lead to greater efficiencies and a leaner, greener local family car. The broad sweep of the Falcon plan was outlined exclusively to the Herald Sun yesterday at the Detroit Motor Show by Ford's worldwide president, Alan Mulally. He pointed to a continued role for the Falcon in Australia within an integrated global product plan.

"We'll be in the Falcon market, yes. But as we go forward we'll continue to use all our assets around the world," Mulally said. "We have learned so much from the Falcon, because it's a dynamite car. Whatever that Falcon morphs to, for the next one, it will be available for everyone around the world.

He also effectively dismissed suggestions that the Falcon, a traditional rear-wheel drive design, would be replaced by the front-drive Taurus built for the USA. The Taurus has already failed once in Australia, in the 1990s. "We're going to have a large sedan. The whole thing about rear-wheel drive? We're going to have a rear-wheel drive car," Mulally said.
"And we've got the Mustang. So you can imagine, going forward, that there will be a next version of the Falcon that will be even better. In capital letters." Rumours of a end to the Falcon's run in Australia, and perhaps even an end to local production by Ford, were categorically denied yesterday in Detroit by the president of Ford Australia, Marin Burela.

"No company that was going to pull out of Australia would be spending $230 million on bringing the world's best powertrain technology to Australia for the Falcon," Burela told the Herald Sun.

He said the coming introduction of a four-cylinder engine in the Falcon would allow Ford to compete against new rivals, including the Toyota Camry, as well as setting a new class benchmark for engine efficiency.

"Our strategy is very clear. We took a very bold step forward when we announced a significant investment in Falcon only a few months ago. No other local manufacturer has committed that sort of investment in recent times," Burela said.

"Why did we do that? We did that to give Falcon an incremental level of growth opportunity over time."If you look at the things we have done on Falcon, and we are planning for Falcon, there is absolutely no reason for us to deviate because the plan is working."

Burela highlighted an improvement in Falcon's share of family-car sales in Australia in 2009 at the expense of the Holden Commodore, and even the need to work some weekend shifts at its factory in Broadmeadows to satisfy demand. "It's actually delivering a very, very very exciting return," he said.

Burela stressed that planning for the next new Falcon is barely into the research stage, with no urgency on any sort of commitment. He also hinted that it would be possible for the car to share much of its basic mechanical package with the next all-new Mustang, but with a local body above the mechanical package.

"The Falcon's changeover is due to take place at the end of 2014, or early in 2015. Our decisions . . . for Falcon don't have to be made until we get through to the middle of 2011. So we have time on our hands. "At the moment, all is well on the Falcon side of things. All is very well."

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

The broad sweep of the Falcon plan was outlined exclusively to the Herald Sun yesterday at the Detroit Motor Show by Ford's worldwide president, Alan Mulally. He pointed to a continued role for the Falcon in Australia within an integrated global product plan.

Wonder if that was as a response to the far more accurate / respectful reporting of the plan? It's funny I normally dislike Gover, but not as much as Josh Dowling and now Jez Spinks. So to have Gover sing the praises of the Falcon/Mustang, it's quite unusual.

Originally Posted by Chilliman

"We'll be in the Falcon market, yes. But as we go forward we'll continue to use all our assets around the world," Mulally said. "We have learned so much from the Falcon, because it's a dynamite car. Whatever that Falcon morphs to, for the next one, it will be available for everyone around the world.

"We're going to have a large sedan. The whole thing about rear-wheel drive? We're going to have a rear-wheel drive car," Mulally said.
"And we've got the Mustang. So you can imagine, going forward, that there will be a next version of the Falcon that will be even better. In capital letters."

I think those capital letters are RWD.

Originally Posted by Chilliman

He said the coming introduction of a four-cylinder engine in the Falcon would allow Ford to compete against new rivals, including the Toyota Camry, as well as setting a new class benchmark for engine efficiency.

Somewhat off topic. I actually wonder if those EB i4T will be reported seperately or wholely by VFACTS. ie The previous model Camry which was i4 & v6 as distinct to present which is Camry/Aurion.

IIRC put both together for the Top 10, but in brackets the split numbers. However, when it was looked at for category/class, the i4 was "Medium", the V6 was "Large". Wonder if Ford Falcon can take No.2 in that segment?

[Falc'man]

Yes, those "capital letters" are very promising. In the scheme of things, lets think about what all this means: A Falcon derived from a GRWD platform will mean a Falcon that is NOT made on a shoestring budget. It will most certainly be a huge effort, combining resources from all the centres of excellence within the Ford world.

Another thing. All the doubters (from the stupid omg-the-sky-is-falling-we're-gonna-die thread) who bagged Mulally ought to give themselves a massive uppercut. Not only were they silly for believing the idiot Aussie journos (read the link below to know what I'm talking about) but to bag Mulally shows a massive sign of disrespect to someone who's saved Ford's backside from extinction.

Phil, your mate Dowling had some positive stuff, or at least refrained from any negativity, with respects to all this. Link

I'd say EB4 sales would be included in total Falcon sales, it's not Ford's fault Toyoyoto split their badges.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Yes, those "capital letters" are very promising. In the scheme of things, lets think about what all this means: A Falcon derived from a GRWD platform will mean a Falcon that is NOT made on a shoestring budget. It will most certainly be a huge effort, combining resources from all the centres of excellence within the Ford world.

Another thing. All the doubters (from the stupid omg-the-sky-is-falling-we're-gonna-die thread) who bagged Mulally ought to give themselves a massive uppercut. Not only were they silly for believing the idiot Aussie journos (read the link below to know what I'm talking about) but to bag Mulally shows a massive sign of disrespect to someone who's saved Ford's backside from extinction.

Phil, your mate Dowling had some positive stuff, or at least refrained from any negativity, with respects to all this. Link

I'd say EB4 sales would be included in total Falcon sales, it's not Ford's fault Toyoyoto split their badges.

Agreed totally. Except for this pearler. "My mate - Dowling"... That's harsh...

Yeah, I expect the EB4 total to be included in the overall. Just wonder if it will be 'medium' or 'large' for VFACTS. Just musing out loud!

[jpd80]

Apologies to the War of the Worlds:

“ No one would have believed, in the first decade of the 21st century, that Aussie Falcons were being watched from the timeless worlds of North America. No one could have dreamed that we were being scrutinized as someone with a microscope studies creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. Few men even considered the possibility of exports to other countries. And yet, across the Pacific, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Falcon platform with envious eyes, and slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us…”

[Falc'man]

Haha good stuff.

I agree with it all accept for the last couple of words.

[mick457]

i must of missed something but wat does GRWD mean?

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by mick457

i must of missed something but wat does GRWD mean?

Global Rear Wheel Drive

[Chilliman]

After reading several articles from Paul Gover and Josh Dowling, I think they may have finally changed their tune regarding the Falcon.

Jez Spinks, on the other hand, is the last standing - he had some usual rubbish printed in Saturday's West Australian - barely bothered to read it.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Yes, those "capital letters" are very promising. In the scheme of things, lets think about what all this means: A Falcon derived from a GRWD platform will mean a Falcon that is NOT made on a shoestring budget. It will most certainly be a huge effort, combining resources from all the centres of excellence within the Ford world.

Another thing. All the doubters (from the stupid omg-the-sky-is-falling-we're-gonna-die thread) who bagged Mulally ought to give themselves a massive uppercut. Not only were they silly for believing the idiot Aussie journos (read the link below to know what I'm talking about) but to bag Mulally shows a massive sign of disrespect to someone who's saved Ford's backside from extinction.

Phil, your mate Dowling had some positive stuff, or at least refrained from any negativity, with respects to all this. Link

I'd say EB4 sales would be included in total Falcon sales, it's not Ford's fault Toyoyoto split their badges.

i was going to post RE that carpoint article youssef....but you beat me to it. While it is surprising to see the likes of gover, dowling etc. sining the praises of the falcon, i think in this case there are a few reasons (one much more significant than the others...)

Firstly, these guys know that for commodore to have a chance, falcon has to exist. Be it suppliers, design impetus etc. They may love the commodore but withouth falcon who will they pillor??

Secondly, never understimate one journos love for making the other look silly. As soon as the falcon story went crazy, the journos that weren't first to it thought, hmm, that doesn't sound right. When it became possible (let alone likely) that jez spinks and the guy from go auto (sad to see taht mob in on this) had muffed this up, well dowling and gover thought this is great. So they spun a rival story and were quite clear in letting everyone know they were right and the other mob were wrong...

Finally, the ultimate irony is the VERY REASON that gover/dowling were on the GRWD/falcon surives side is because they went to Detroit AS PART OF THE GM-H TRIP!!!! Its made as clear as crystal in that carpoint story.....

Originally Posted by carpoint

When the stories appeared overnight, the guys on the GM trip were left wondering why the reports on the future of Falcon were so explosive -- especially once you read the "no Aussie Falcon" quotes in isolation.

Of course dowling and gover were not part of the original misreporting and mayhem, for that to happen they would have to be on the ford trip......when they were (unsurprisingly to those that know their proclivities) on the Holden trip....

I don't doubt Ford aus did a poor job of the trip managment. but then again...

Originally Posted by carpoint

Holden makes regular visits to Motown with the Australian media who get good access to several layers of top executives. For Ford Australia, however, it was the first media trip to a Detroit motor show in close to a decade -- and there were no allotted sit-down chats with the big wigs. Instead, journos had to scramble to get a few grabs on tape.........................
.............Ford may regret not giving the Australian journalists more time -- and not just the Australian journalists on the Ford trip. Ford left the Australian journalists on the GM trip to fight their own way to the top executives. By comparison, a number of Australian journalists on the Ford trip were invited to -- and regularly attended -- meetings with top GM executives...

dowling also points out correctly that holden/toyota would never discuss local production plans for 2015....and that ford is traditionally much more tight lipped anyway.....

I just love the irony bit. That gover/dowling are on ford's side because they were on a Holden sponsored trip LOL! So much for 'independent' journalism....

[cosmo20btt]

^^^
Makes sense if Gover & Dowling were on the Holden junket as GM would still have Pontiac ringing in there ears as when they canceled the G8, all of a sudden they were selling like hot cakes. So I think GM told Gover & Dowling to disrepute his (Jez Spinctor) article for fear that Ford might start selling there cars quickly.
This is my interpretation.