Mondeo vs Sportswagon

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden sells about 12,000 V8 vehicles a year, it's a very lucrative option for them but

considering nearly a million cars are sold each year, 12000 isn't very many. performance cars make up a very small percentage, and esp when it comes to wagon buyers. performance isn't going to be high on the list for many buyers.

[GT 160]

Originally Posted by prydey

i'm amused that people still think performance and handling are big sellers. yes i guess they are, but they don't need to be anywhere near the level that people on here seem to have a fixation with. have a look at the bulk of the cars that are selling like hot cakes. corolla, mazda3, suv's, 4wd's, camry, etc etc.

many are 4cyl and front wheel drive. it isn't an issue with 90% of the buying public.

so many times when a car is reviewed on AFF it is useless if it doesn't go like stink or handle like a race car. seriously, step out in the real world.

This ^^^

I couldn't agree more. All this obsession with 1/4 mile times, 0-60 etc etc is getting monotonous.

By some of the carryings on in this forum you'd swear everyone drives at 10/10ths everywhere they go.

[new2ford]

The Sportswagon is comprehensively outclassed by the Skoda Superb - far better build quality, Australian-built reliability is dodgy and the Skoda has huge front to rear space. It's diesel is more economical than the Holden, more torque and cheaper. Mondeo is a closer rival but doesn't match the Skoda's quality or huge seat space. Holden is slightly wider (if you need that). I think the Euros have it overall, the Holden is simply irrelevant since it (and now Ford) dropped a proper large station wagon and the Sportswagon can't match the other two. I can hardly think of a more pointless car. If they can't do it properly they shouldn't do it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

considering nearly a million cars are sold each year, 12000 isn't very many.

It is to the company selling them, particularly when there's a healthy profit margin attached..
And by the way, it's a million vehicles across all segments, not just cars so any vehicle
selling over 4,000 units per month is very rare indeed..most are in the 1,000 to 2,500 zone.

performance cars make up a very small percentage, and esp when it comes to wagon buyers. performance isn't going to be high on the list for many buyers.

Agree but in such a fragmented market, manufacturers have every right to pick niches
where they can get the best return and conversely, completely stupid to try and compete
with bargain basement Crossovers and station wagons from Asia...

It's like Territory, Frd might only be selling 1200-1300 but 80% of those are $45K-$60K vehicles.
That's not a bad return considering that SYII Territory were mostly $36,990 RWDs..

[FG_Frodza]

CONGRATULATIONS FORD ON A DESERVED WIN!

This is supposed to be a Ford forum and people are taking the opportunity to bag the Mondeo which is the superior car according to the NRMA.

When there is a comparison between and Ford and a Holden and the Ford wins, it must be wrong, if the Holden wins, it must be because the Holden is better...

[Chopped]

"Wagons are finally becomming popular again in Australia."

Yes they are. I am seeing more mondeo wagons on the road.

(Bit of a strange review though)

I can't see the V8 option in the Mondeo !!

[Carby]

I think the NRMA testers are a joke of late. I had a go at one of them for testing an LPG HSV and all they carried on about was fuel usage and the hand brake, and said there were many other cars of similar performance and better. I challenged that and all he could come up with was the XR6T - had no real problem with that (taking price into account) but that was all he had!!

For this test it says handling and ride -Ok Mondeo gets the ride part but for handling Zilch! Performance? Again economy goes with the dirty diesel but performance hmmmm, I know who wins that one!

The NRMA journal is best read for it's travel destinations, as far as car reviews go they are just metrosexual greenies now...........

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by arronm

I agree I have one as well. Why would I want a front wheel drive European piece of ****. Yeah front wheel drive cars handle well. The mondeo has no style.

Yeah, the only thing RWD is good for is doing burnouts and being able to support a lot more torque without any issues, thats about the only two advantages a RWD car has over FWD.

Towing, I can't recall the last time I've seen a Falcon tow something other than a 6x4 trailer, which our Mazda 323 does fine. Everyone these days have diesel dual cabs, SUVs or 4X4s for towing duties out here.

FWD means you get more space in the car as theres no tail shaft, it also handles better in dodgy conditions like dirt roads/ice/snow because there is more weight over the driving and steering wheels, its also lighter and cheaper to do, so a cost saving there.

FWD also can handle like they're on rails, its all about the setup, take a look at a Honda Integta DC2R and Renault Megane/Clio cup, they're the benchmarks for handling and performance when it comes to FWD.

Hell, you can even slide a FWD car without use of a handbrake if you know how to induce lift-off oversteer.

[mik]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The Sportswagon is comprehensively outclassed by the Skoda Superb - far better build quality, Australian-built reliability is dodgy and the Skoda has huge front to rear space. It's diesel is more economical than the Holden, more torque and cheaper. Mondeo is a closer rival but doesn't match the Skoda's quality or huge seat space. Holden is slightly wider (if you need that). I think the Euros have it overall, the Holden is simply irrelevant since it (and now Ford) dropped a proper large station wagon and the Sportswagon can't match the other two. I can hardly think of a more pointless car. If they can't do it properly they shouldn't do it.

i dunno mate, to me the Skoda does`nt have the runs on the board, it has`nt been in any numbers compared to the locals, ok it may be presented well and have the edge in fit and finish, but i`m yet to see one on Australias proving ground (that is Australian roads) after a decade of abuse, being pretty does`nt make it good.

[stevz]

IMO this article is extremely amateurish and poorly executed and it is obvious the author is some sort of anti-Aussie, pro-import snob that had it in for the sportwagon from the start.

Putting all brand bias aside, lets say the sportwagon also had a Ford badge on it. Now who here would still seriously choose the Mondeo?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by stevz

IMO this article is extremely amateurish and poorly executed and it is obvious the author is some sort of anti-Aussie, pro-import snob that had it in for the sportwagon from the start.

Putting all brand bias aside, lets say the sportwagon also had a Ford badge on it. Now who here would still seriously choose the Mondeo?

so what areas does the sv6 have it over the mondeo then?

[stevz]

Originally Posted by prydey

so what areas does the sv6 have it over the mondeo then?

Looks, performance, RWD, looks, interior space, Aussie built, looks, did I mention looks?
I'm sorry, but in my opinion the Mondeo, especially in wagon form, is PIG ugly. And while the interior may have better fit and finish and use higher quality materials, its design is HORRID. Give me an Aussie designed Ford or Holden ANYDAY.
Performance wise, the 3.6 sidi would blow the mondeo away like no tomorrow, and as for the mondeo diesel using 6.2l/100km, yeah right, I'd love to see that achieved consistently in the real world.

This article completely writes off the sportwagon on the basis that the Mondeo is from Europe so it must be better, an attitude which I am thoroughly sick of.

Originally Posted by new2ford

The Sportswagon is comprehensively outclassed by the Skoda Superb - far better build quality, blah, blah, blah

Yeah but only a gay latte sipper would actually buy a Skoda. I wouldn't be seen dead in one.

[gtxb67]

rwd is only needed to stroke the ego of those living in the dark ages
aussie built only means something to those who do not like quality control
looks are subjective, but the sportshatch or what ever it is called

[stevz]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

rwd is only needed to stroke the ego of those living in the dark ages
aussie built only means something to those who do not like quality control
looks are subjective, but the sportshatch or what ever it is called

disagree on all counts

[prydey]

Originally Posted by stevz

Looks, performance, RWD, looks, interior space, Aussie built, looks, did I mention looks?
I'm sorry, but in my opinion the Mondeo, especially in wagon form, is PIG ugly. And while the interior may have better fit and finish and use higher quality materials, its design is HORRID. Give me an Aussie designed Ford or Holden ANYDAY.
Performance wise, the 3.6 sidi would blow the mondeo away like no tomorrow, and as for the mondeo diesel using 6.2l/100km, yeah right, I'd love to see that achieved consistently in the real world.

looks are subjective and i don't believe the article actually mentions any bias either way.

performance - sure, the sv6 is faster. not real important to 99% of car buyers!

rwd - please

interior space - the mondeo has a larger luggage area, which is what wagons are all about.

economy - i'd like to see the sportwagon consistently get 9.9 in the real world too.

seriously, your arguments against are based on looks and performance.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The Sportswagon is comprehensively outclassed by the Skoda Superb - far better build quality, Australian-built reliability is dodgy and the Skoda has huge front to rear space. It's diesel is more economical than the Holden, more torque and cheaper. Mondeo is a closer rival but doesn't match the Skoda's quality or huge seat space. Holden is slightly wider (if you need that). I think the Euros have it overall, the Holden is simply irrelevant since it (and now Ford) dropped a proper large station wagon and the Sportswagon can't match the other two. I can hardly think of a more pointless car. If they can't do it properly they shouldn't do it.

Are Skodas like VW? as in unreliable and cost a fortune to fix, with gearbox issues, that cost more to replace than the whole car.

[Falc'man]

This article is no surprise really.

After having a sisi SV6 hire car for a week there is no way I'd buy that over a Mondeo. The VE is easily the most over-rated car on the market.

[MelsGolf]

My husband test drove both when we looked at cars last year, and while he prefers Rear wheel drive he said the Holden just had so many negatives, its really dated and agricultural compared to the Mondeo and had poor luggage use. Someone posted earlier about it not being about power and racing, that is so true, most consumers want comfort and appointments in this car segment, not a bathurst winner. Particularly as most buyers are just average mothers or sales people who have next to no interest in performance.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by prydey

i'm amused that people still think performance and handling are big sellers. yes i guess they are, but they don't need to be anywhere near the level that people on here seem to have a fixation with. have a look at the bulk of the cars that are selling like hot cakes. corolla, mazda3, suv's, 4wd's, camry, etc etc.

many are 4cyl and front wheel drive. it isn't an issue with 90% of the buying public.

so many times when a car is reviewed on AFF it is useless if it doesn't go like stink or handle like a race car. seriously, step out in the real world.

step out in the real world allright...and youll find that a dodgy aussie built comadore will still outsell a much better handling performing value packed good looker like the mondeo. Theres not much else ford can do...except build the best cars...as they do...i mean just recently they won all there classes didnt they.....and they still wont lead the sales charts...despite building the best cars in australia another tear.....again...

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by stevz

Looks, performance, RWD, looks, interior space, Aussie built, looks, did I mention looks?
I'm sorry, but in my opinion the Mondeo, especially in wagon form, is PIG ugly. And while the interior may have better fit and finish and use higher quality materials, its design is HORRID. Give me an Aussie designed Ford or Holden ANYDAY.
Performance wise, the 3.6 sidi would blow the mondeo away like no tomorrow, and as for the mondeo diesel using 6.2l/100km, yeah right, I'd love to see that achieved consistently in the real world.

This article completely writes off the sportwagon on the basis that the Mondeo is from Europe so it must be better, an attitude which I am thoroughly sick of.

\

Yeah but only a gay latte sipper would actually buy a Skoda. I wouldn't be seen dead in one.

and you sound like a complete biased aussie bogan thru n thru...be ashamed.pull your sad blinkers off. For starters you say youd rather any ford or holden design over the mondeo...what a crock...the locals look miles apart...the commie rather bulgy and puffed with the ford rather more sleak and euro. And as you mention performance...this is not a performance segment...so if it feels like its getting smooth refined power to the ground...then it is....doesnt mater if the commie can clunk there bigger stink rourt of a motor down the mile quicker....this segment is more about getting there......not to mention everyone has known the mondeo has had more rear room then the sportwagon since the get go. And i dont mind the sportwagons...but the mondeo is BY FARRRR THE BETTER PRDUCT IN THE DRIVE

[MethodX]

Funny though, when ford announced they were stopping the Falcon wagon most here said no way they would buy a Mondeo wagon, on principal, its foreign, girly, ford selling out its customer base..
Now its a great car?

[jjw]

Out of those 2 I'd have bought the Sportswagon. In fact, I doubt that I'd have even considered the diesel Mondeo (maybe the Ecoboost, if it was available). Apparently, I must be a bogan.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Funny though, when ford announced they were stopping the Falcon wagon most here said no way they would buy a Mondeo wagon, on principal, its foreign, girly, ford selling out its customer base..
Now its a great car?

Originally Posted by jjw

Out of those 2 I'd have bought the Sportswagon. In fact, I doubt that I'd have even considered the diesel Mondeo (maybe the Ecoboost, if it was available). Apparently, I must be a bogan.

personal preference doesn't make the article wrong. i wouldn't buy a mondeo either, but that doesn't make the article incorrect or the sv6 better!!

its a car review of 2 cars side by side and in their opinion, they found the mondeo better. its that simple.

[jjw]

fair enough, I'm saying I see the rankings differently and its almost like they have chosen a the comparison incorrectly - sports shoes versus dress shoes - and then based the assessment on what looks best with a suit. weird.

[MelsGolf]

Again i think there seems to be a bit of a bias here based on out right performance as a measure for every car or segment. Sometimes refinement, luxury, appointments, functionality and quality are more important than how fast it is, where its made or what badge it wears, especially when its a holden. The sportswagon just seems very basic comparred to all its competition, even against the Territory, which i must say in Diesel form is very apealing.

[Falc'man]

Holden Commodore Sportswagon:

• RWD, check.

• Powerful motor.

• Crappy bottom-end that is masked by an ever-shifting crappy gearbox.

• Crappy gearbox.

• Crappy smoothness for a modern-day V6.

• Crappy interior.

• Crappy space for a wagon.

• Crappy space for a hatch.

• Crappy ergonomics and functions.

• Crappy visibility (understatement).

• Crappy ride quality for normal roads.

• Good by Holden's standards (seeing that Holden is getting all their other cars made/manufactured/designed in Korea by Daewoo they should get this dungbox done their too).

• Good by bogan standards.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by jjw

Out of those 2 I'd have bought the Sportswagon. In fact, I doubt that I'd have even considered the diesel Mondeo (maybe the Ecoboost, if it was available). Apparently, I must be a bogan.

nooo...your a bogan if like the biased idiot further above who thinks only aussie cars look good and they have to be rwd and have the most power....never mind were talking about a mid spec wagon here...which wants comfort rear space and goodies. and like some aussie cars..who cares if the thing falls apart...you touch nothing but plastic or the gear shifts give you a heart attack...blah blah blah...

IF YOU WANT AN AUSSIE WAGON BUY THE COMMIE....YOU WANT THE BEST WAGON..BUY THE MONDEO (or a terri)

[MelsGolf]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Holden Commodore Sportswagon:

• RWD, check.

• Powerful motor.

• Crappy bottom-end that is masked by an ever-shifting crappy gearbox.

• Crappy gearbox.

• Crappy smoothness for a modern-day V6.

• Crappy interior.

• Crappy space for a wagon.

• Crappy space for a hatch.

• Crappy ergonomics and functions.

• Crappy visibility (understatement).

• Crappy ride quality for normal roads.

• Good by Holden's standards (seeing that Holden is getting all their other cars made/manufactured/designed in Korea by Daewoo they should get this dungbox done their too).

• Good by bogan standards.

HA! you sound like my Husband and brother! They both think its the same and cant work out why people buy them.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by MelsGolf

HA! you sound like my Husband and brother! They both think its the same and cant work out why people buy them.

Welcome to AFF.

I noted the above because I'm only comparing it to my clapped out BF XT Falcon. If I had a VN as a daily I'd think yeah nah the VE is good - where "yeah nah" to me is being hesitant and indecisive.

[GT 160]

Interestingly in the new Australia's Best Car magazine which is put together by all the motoring groups ranks the Mondeo 13th out 16 in the Best Medium Car Under $50,000 category.