VE driven!

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bermo

:rofl: I think that article could be a bit out dated...?

Obvioulsy, that's the point, Holden MD had only one thing negative to hit the BA with in 2002 and that was it's weight and now with the new VE Holden have deliberately kept all weight figures out of their brochures and website...it's the great hypocracy that I'm amused with.

[Phoon Hoon]

Originally Posted by corbz

Just got this months motor...

performance times
(conducted on a WET track at lang lang between showers)

ssv auto
0-100: 5.69
400m: 13.9 @ 167.7km

ssv manual
0-100: 5.35
400m: 13.63 @170.7km

Let's just remember that the first time the 6L VZ SS was released, Motor pulled some great times, too. Seemed that the first model released to the media pulled awesome times... that were NEVER to be seen again (this goes for the R8 as well).

Now, only a cynic would suggest that there's some dodgy dealings going on here, but I'll wait a little while before I sell my Phoon and buy an SS.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by HSE2

So the theory on the new Holdens being slower due to weight gain doesn't hold water???

What is our next line of excuse?

:eclipsee_ pressfleet specials....only joking...

[shane 351]

hay howlett

[Dr Smith]

Found this on LS1
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...t=59227&page=4 (post#60)
and it seems credible, which could also have a bearing on future VE sales success:

found this on another forum discussing fleet price :

The annual lease prices for the VE Commodore range were released today within our company...

I was expecting VE prices to be slightly higher than the Ford range, but have to admit that I am quietly surprised at how uncompetative the prices have turned out to be.

To give you a comparison:
Falcon XT to Commodore Omega - Omega is aprox. $4500 more expensive /year to lease.
Falcon XR6 to Commodore SV6 - SV6 is aprox. $3000 more expensive /year to lease.
Fairmont Ghia to Calais V - Calais is aprox. $4000 more expensive /year to lease.

It's clear to me that when we replace our business unit's existing pool vehicles, we'll be choosing Fords. It's a no-brainer given the price differences.

From a private perspective, for staff who will be choosing to salary sacrifice a vehicle; I'm struggling to understand how these prices put the Holden range even within the ballpark. I can foresee only die-hard Holden fans ordering from the Holden range. Why else would you fork out an extra $4500/annum just to have a Commodore?
It just doesn't make sense.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Phoon Hoon

Let's just remember that the first time the 6L VZ SS was released, Motor pulled some great times, too. Seemed that the first model released to the media pulled awesome times... that were NEVER to be seen again (this goes for the R8 as well).

Now, only a cynic would suggest that there's some dodgy dealings going on here, but I'll wait a little while before I sell my Phoon and buy an SS.

That reminds me of the Monaro that Motor got to do 0- 100 in 4.9 seconds. Never got close again.

Still I reckon this new VE has a few tricks up its sleeve.

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by Phoon Hoon

Let's just remember that the first time the 6L VZ SS was released, Motor pulled some great times, too. Seemed that the first model released to the media pulled awesome times... that were NEVER to be seen again (this goes for the R8 as well).

Now, only a cynic would suggest that there's some dodgy dealings going on here, but I'll wait a little while before I sell my Phoon and buy an SS..

Until they test drove it in OZ PCOTY, and was slower than the XR8

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by Phoon Hoon

Let's just remember that the first time the 6L VZ SS was released, Motor pulled some great times, too. Seemed that the first model released to the media pulled awesome times... that were NEVER to be seen again (this goes for the R8 as well).

Now, only a cynic would suggest that there's some dodgy dealings going on here, but I'll wait a little while before I sell my Phoon and buy an SS.

I know somebody who has driven both auto and manual and acheived a slightly better time in the auto, but that manual time is faster than he reported. The real numbers will start appearing from later this month as real people start taking delivery and side by side tests start appearing in the mags.

Don't worry too much Holden have stated they went for performance over economy. Therefore you would expect good numbers, the gamble is will they be punished because the market actually wants economy? I guess the next few months will be telling (after the initial must have one rush dies off and BF2 with even better economy is on the market).

[marcosambrose]

Ive said this time and time again to my friends.

Commodores and Falcons do not suffer from being too heavy, there are many other large sedans around the world posting quick times with similar weight.

Its the problem of putting the power to the black stuff, which frankly australian built cars dont do too well, until now.

Its all about the chassis and suspension setup, the VE is brand now so it has some great chassis design which allows it to put that heavy metal to the road and post great standing start times.

Look at the large euro sedans and new cadillacs, they have the same weight and similar power but the power to the ground is there.

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

Ive said this time and time again to my friends.

Commodores and Falcons do not suffer from being too heavy, there are many other large sedans around the world posting quick times with similar weight.

Its the problem of putting the power to the black stuff, which frankly australian built cars dont do too well, until now.

Its all about the chassis and suspension setup, the VE is brand now so it has some great chassis design which allows it to put that heavy metal to the road and post great standing start times.

Look at the large euro sedans and new cadillacs, they have the same weight and similar power but the power to the ground is there.

Excellent point there marcos. Up until the BF, we had the 4 speeder in the BA and although adequate, wasn't up to snuff when it cam to laying the power down.

[WASP]

The SSV sounds great. Not so great are the 6 cyl models which are the biggest sellers in this market. V8 sales no matter how good and going backwards. When you look at things that way, Ford aren't really in such a bad position are they.

[Full Spectrum]

I don't know i know a ford bloke who pointed out last year to me that when V6 sales were dropping V8 sales were equal or a improvement even with the bad fuel crisis.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by HSE2

So the theory on the new Holdens being slower due to weight gain doesn't hold water???

What is our next line of excuse?

I'll believe those times when they start repeating them with production cars at MOTORS own testing spots. That test was with a Holden prepped press car at Lang Lang. I have memory's of the 4 second HSV that was tested last year in the same manner and NEVER got close to that time again.

Not saying the SSV can't or won't do those times I just want to wait and see the back to back tests with the Typhoon ect on the same day/place with performance figures.

[Bucket]

Holden Marketing....they use any tactics they can to sell a car..just look at the 24 Hour Monaro....

[XRQTR]

Quote from LS1.com article, I thought this summed it up in a nutshell lol

"If there is one consolation, both Holden and HSV must be confident that the new HSV VE range will have the wings to lift it clear of Holden's new Super Cheap Auto approach to a special VE Commodore."

It's in regard to their HSVi range that can be had for all the models.

[SunDrifter]

Originally Posted by VSSII

I prefer the GM steering to that of the Ford, a little heavier but when at speed giving much more feel. GM had this problem back on their VS Commodores. Same for the suspension. The ford XR suspension is just too soft when pushing hard, with lots of wallowing and pitching. But the commodore brakes are just woeful!

Not trying to start something here, but i can't help to totally dissagree with that. I have to drive VYII's and VZ comodores for work, and each one i've driven (over 7 cars) have all felt about on par for weight feel, the thing i find that seperates them is the commodores are much less direct and have a bit of a squishy feel too them (could be the 15" wheels as compared to my 17"). I certainly don't find the Falcon to be light at highway speeds, or flighty. IMO, this was an area holden really needed to improve upon. Time will tell i guess.

You want light steering, try an XF. :evilsasmo

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by SunDrifter

Not trying to start something here, but i can't help to totally dissagree with that. I have to drive VYII's and VZ comodores for work, and each one i've driven (over 7 cars) have all felt about on par for weight feel, the thing i find that seperates them is the commodores are much less direct and have a bit of a squishy feel too them (could be the 15" wheels as compared to my 17"). I certainly don't find the Falcon to be light at highway speeds, or flighty. IMO, this was an area holden really needed to improve upon. Time will tell i guess.

You want light steering, try an XF. :evilsasmo

I'll second that motion SunDrifter,
I drove VY's VY2's and VZ's For a year as company cars in one of my previous jobs.
Having a VY2 SS in impulse to Drive for a day was great fun...but only when the Auto Tranny decided to wake up and respond to me flooring it and when I travelled in a straigh line. I really wasnt impressed with the Chassis or the Steering in it...I could see why motor and wheels has both criticised the Chassis straight away.

[WASP]

I've spent quite a bit of time in a VYSS. The ride quality compared to say an XR8 was pretty average, harsh, creaky and lots of thumping thru the steering wheel. But on the other hand it gave much more feedback and was quite direct on the road. My old BA XR8 incomparision did feel too soft for a sports model, although much easier to live with at the same time.

It's this thread about the VE anyway??

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by CDAA

I've spent quite a bit of time in a VYSS. The ride quality compared to say an XR8 was pretty average, harsh, creaky and lots of thumping thru the steering wheel. But on the other hand it gave much more feedback and was quite direct on the road. My old BA XR8 incomparision did feel too soft for a sports model, although much easier to live with at the same time.

It's this thread about the VE anyway??

Yea, just a lot of comparing the previous VY's and Z's driving qualities going on at the moment

[shane 351]

Very close looking to a BA/BF .
I Know that it has been released before full testing and proving !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : :thebirds: :thebirds:

[ReVd_uP]

Originally Posted by Phoon Hoon

Let's just remember that the first time the 6L VZ SS was released, Motor pulled some great times, too. Seemed that the first model released to the media pulled awesome times... that were NEVER to be seen again (this goes for the R8 as well).

Now, only a cynic would suggest that there's some dodgy dealings going on here, but I'll wait a little while before I sell my Phoon and buy an SS.

Weither or not its just us blue oval fans looking for comfort, i seem to hear alot of talk about Holden giving suspiciously(sp?) heathy examples to the press for testing, been hearing it for years....

[Crofty]

Originally Posted by Polyal

well its going to be a bit ignorant of us to sit here and say it doesn't do what they say. It better do better than the BF as its a new generation anyway. Its just going to be VT vs EL for a while, atleast until BF2 comes out and then maybe we will be an EL2...lol

But to fair to the EL, it probably out performs VT's in most area's anyway.:

Its going to be tough times, but interesting to see what ford does as I can never remember Holdens having better road poise, steering etc etc.

Also, I cant help but feel that the media is going to be extra nice to Holden. If they were to sh|t can it then thats not going to help large car sales, or either local manufacturer in the long run.

But we all know carsales.com.au and drive.com.au's integrity, so nothing to worry about hey...............

Its rumoured Holden will introduce their 'turbo' version of VE on the exact same time the updated falcon comes out...

Seems copy-cat to me, but I wonder what that will do for the updated falcon... ?! :

[HSE2]

Which updated Falcon? This months announcement, or the 08 MY Falcon.

Paul must have been sick or something because James did the Herald Sun review yesterday and had a few issues that were interesting.

I can't believe we are still rolling out the old, "these car were preproduction units so hopefully these little issues won't make production"

[Dazza XLT]

I spotted one sitting out front the dealership in Bowen. Omega.
It just doesn't look right! All out of proportion if you ask me. Flares do not suit the base model cars.
But that is just my opinion!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Which updated Falcon? This months announcement, or the 08 MY Falcon.

Paul must have been sick or something because James did the Herald Sun review yesterday and had a few issues that were interesting.

I can't believe we are still rolling out the old, "these car were preproduction units so hopefully these little issues won't make production"

lol, oh they'll make it to the production cars with so many other problems.

[Crofty]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Which updated Falcon? This months announcement, or the 08 MY Falcon.

Paul must have been sick or something because James did the Herald Sun review yesterday and had a few issues that were interesting.

I can't believe we are still rolling out the old, "these car were preproduction units so hopefully these little issues won't make production"

The 08 Falcon

[bob^]

Originally Posted by SunDrifter

A yes, i had forgotten about that. Holden probably wish Hanenberger hadn't said that now. :

Nothing to add about the car itself but was it realllyyyy necessary to quote a massive article when youre the next person to post?? used:

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by merlin

I'll believe those times when they start repeating them with production cars at MOTORS own testing spots. That test was with a Holden prepped press car at Lang Lang. I have memory's of the 4 second HSV that was tested last year in the same manner and NEVER got close to that time again.

Not saying the SSV can't or won't do those times I just want to wait and see the back to back tests with the Typhoon ect on the same day/place with performance figures.

They were actually performance figures provided by Holden to the press and not numbers obtained by the press in press fleet cars....so we will all have to wait and see...

[Kachow]

Hi guys...first post here.
I honestly believe Ford have some catching up to do...from an appearance point of view anyway...

[bob^]

They do...but you have to remember they are pretty much using the AU platform still