Calls For Further Speed Limit Reductions. - Page 2

The G6ET Spot · 11-01-2009, 05:21 PM

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It's about time that pedestrians were made to take responsibility for crossing roads.

It's not rocket science that it is easier to stop walking than it is to stop a car.

How they can make that pedestrians have right of way on a road that was built for cars is beyond me.

I have had the misfortune of hitting a pedestrian not once but on 2 occasions and on both occasions the pedestrian was at fault.

The first time I had just turned a corner and he walked straight off the gutter in front of me, I was only doing 20-25k's so he was lucky. But the mitogating thing against him was that he had been drinking and was walking around with a beer when the accident occured.

The second time was at 3.30am on the M4 freeway at homebush and he tried to run across the freeway, he just came out of the bushes like a rabbit, but not as fast. I was driving a truck at the time so there is no need to eleberate on the outcome. But he had a blood alcohol reading of .275 so he didn't even have a clue what he was doing I'd say.

So on the first occasion my speed was under what they are suggesting then on the second time even if I was doing 20k's slower it wouldn't have made a difference anyhow.

So when Harrold Scruby and all his other deadbeat friends start carrying on about lowering speed limits on roads because of pedestrians it really gets my back up. I wish they would just wake up and remember what the roads were originally built for CARS.

I don't have a problem with the school zones especially primary school as you just never know what a young child is going to do.

We do have to share with pedestrians I know, but for crying out loud make them more responsible.

Sorry about the rant, but i just get so infuriated with the clowns

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**Falcon Coupe** · 11-01-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Explorer_Me

Well if there not up to the job drive accordinly, i cant see why it's so hard if you see ppl standing at the side of the road that they just might step out so slowing down a bit, oh thats right it then puts you into the pll driving under the limit class

There are eight children under eight years old in my court including my two.
The other two families have one petrol pewee motor bike and 5 scooters and go carts that are electric.
The parents actually encourage their children to ride around the court as the park we have at the end is too bumpy.

It's not a matter of slowing down it's a matter of backing out into a court that can have as many as 6 kids riding driving around.

It annoys the crap out of me as trying to teach my kids road sense is quite difficult when they constantly see what the neighbors do.

Driving "accordingly" = an obstacle course many days.

Daymoe · 11-01-2009, 05:30 PM

I got no problems with school zones and shopping areas, but anywhere else is a bit stupid.

On the hitting pedestrians front, my older cousin hit one about 2 years ago, some drunk woman walked in front of her Astra and she hit her at about 40km/h, there was a big dint in the windscreen and some hair still stuck in it. The woman was ****ed out of her brain at the time when she walked out on the road.

Rob's 76 Effy · 11-01-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

There are eight children under eight years old in my court including my two.
The other two families have one petrol pewee motor bike and 5 scooters and go carts that are electric.
The parents actually encourage their children to ride around the court as the park we have at the end is too bumpy.

It's not a matter of slowing down it's a matter of backing out into a court that can have as many as 6 kids riding driving around.

It annoys the crap out of me as trying to teach my kids road sense is quite difficult when they constantly see what the neighbors do.

Driving "accordingly" = an obstacle course many days.

Ok i get your point, but you did say a street not a court, 2 different things

vztrt · 11-01-2009, 05:47 PM

I'll add a few reports (links) of deaths that I have found in 2007 where a pedestrian and vehicle meet.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2008/10/22/2398230.htm
http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...724687608.html

http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xbc..._HUB_april.pdf (page 3)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...07/2296037.htm

Ok the road deaths seem mainly attributed to drinking, and in less cases carelessness.

SpannerXR8 · 11-01-2009, 05:47 PM

The way the governments are going we will be back in the days when a bloke walked in front of every car horseless carriage with a red flag............back to the 1800's we go!!!

vztrt · 11-01-2009, 05:49 PM

Ok I think that the third link I posted should be displayed. As it is a 10 year study conducted by the NRMA.

Quote:

Key Findings from
10 Years of Fatalities Data
Gender and BAC
• 40% of male fatalities and 11% of female fatalities
involved a BAC of 0.05 or more.
• Males accounted for 89% of the pedestrian fatalities
with a BAC of 0.05 or more – these went across all age
bands even up to the age of 70 years.
• Among those killed with a BAC of 0.05 or more, nearly
three quarters (72%) had a BAC of 0.15 or more.
Geographical Location
• The rate of pedestrian fatalities with a BAC of 0.05 or
more was lowest in the Sydney Metropolitan Area.
• The rate was higher in the Newcastle Metropolitan Area
(8.5), the Wollongong Metropolitan Area (10.9) and the
Country areas of NSW (8.9).
Time of Crash
• The large majority (87%) of pedestrian fatalities with a
BAC of 0.05 or more occurred during a period of
darkness.
• Over half of the fatalities occurred on Thursday, Friday
and Saturday nights.
Other Findings
• Fatalities involving intoxicated pedestrians were more
likely to occur on higher speed roads and are likely to
involve a pedestrian lying or sitting on the road or
walking with traffic.

If you wanna read it yourself go to page 3 http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xb...8_HUB_april.pdf

Marduk · 11-01-2009, 05:54 PM

Maybe they should look at the part pedestrians play. It's not like people are pushing them out onto the road or the cars are going onto the footpath to get them.

I almost made that number 60 fatalities this year when some stupid with a death wish ran out in front of me in peak hour traffic. I actually clipped his pants. I was doing 60km/h when he sprinted across the road metres from a pedestrian crossing. If I hadn't been watching him out of the corner of my eye I can guarantee you he would be dead or seriously injured.

4Vman · 11-01-2009, 05:56 PM

Effectively what they're suggesting is they concede they can't control the "idiot factor" in some pedestrians so they'll just slow the cars down to minimize the "inevitable" impact....

As far as courts go they have the propensity to lull some parents into a false sense of security and kids tend to do things on the road that they wouldnt do on a through road.. reversing cars and kids chasing balls or riding low slung bikes are a big problem...

nommic · 11-01-2009, 06:03 PM

I remember this Claes Tingvall being on the news/current affairs programs a few years ago playing pretty much the same line.

I guess next thing after this reduction in speed limits, we'll all be pushing our cars around (added incentive for buying a small car).

Rob's 76 Effy · 11-01-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marduk

or the cars are going onto the footpath to get them

Umm thats a matter of debate, what about the 60+yr old that mow'd down the shoppers on a footpath the other week or the learner that did the same thing killing one person, all been on the news, sometimes it's not even safe to be on the footpath these day's

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Marduk · 11-01-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Explorer_Me

Umm thats a matter of debate, what about the 60+yr old that mow'd down the shoppers on a footpath the other week or the learner that did the same thing killing one person, all been on the news, sometimes it's not even safe to be on the footpath these day's

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Then reducing speed limits would have very little effect.

brenx · 11-01-2009, 06:42 PM

I witnessed a young mum push a pram out onto Dandy-Frankston Rd today walking against a red walk signal and nearly got hit. The driver needed new underwear afterwards and so did the young mum.

phillyc · 11-01-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ok I think that the third link I posted should be displayed. As it is a 10 year study conducted by the NRMA.

If you wanna read it yourself go to page 3 http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xb...8_HUB_april.pdf

Great link Daniel. Much appreciated. I remember reading that article myself at the time of publication. It proves with evidence, factual & measurable evidence (ie BAC) not 'evidence' (ie 'speed') and the correlation to road deaths and trauma.

No pun intended, but it is sobering reading.

NB I drive / ride past a 24hr club on the way to work and always slow for the same reason. Drunks are unpredictable. I don't want to 'take one out' on my motorbike, even at the posted 50kmh.

balthazarr · 11-01-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Oh please.........

Do you ever check your mirrors, gauges, adjust your stereo, look at the clock, things around you, survey the road around you, look at passengers, BLINK, etc......?
Maintaining your speed has always been a requirement of driving...
Anyone who can't perform this most basic fundamental driving function without becoming a distracted death risk on the road should hand their license in now...

Last time I brought up that some pencil pusher had the idea of 30km/h speed limits, it was pretty much dismissed... well, now the calls are getting louder. And given the current political environment, it may well happen.

And 4Vman... yes, maintaining speed has always been a requirement of driving, the difference now?
1. Historically, it's been pretty much a 'go with the flow' - sure, you may be 5-10% over the speed limit, but it wasn't a big deal. The boys and girls in blue generally wouldn't ping you, unless you were being stupid. Now we have the silent sentinels, set to stupidly low tolerances.
1. "ZOMG SPEED KILLS!" has been drummed into everyone's mind... you and I and others may be able to maintain speed within a tight tolerance without staring at the speedo, but many clearly cannot.

Combine #1 & #2 and the driving environment has changed - for the worse, imho.

The logic is flawed, and yet they keep persisting... we've lowered speed limits, yet the toll has risen - well then, the obviously conclusion - we need to lower the limits more!

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azaxr8 · 11-01-2009, 07:13 PM

30 yay! can't wait till the freeway is 10km/h

balthazarr · 11-01-2009, 07:25 PM

I have to make a few more comments:

40km/h on an arterial road?

'Melbourne University health expert Rob Moodie said a reduction in speed limits would lead to more people taking up walking and cycling.'

Oh yeah... that's realistic. It takes me 45 minutes to an hour to drive to work, and the majority of that is on roads with limits of 80-100km/h.

Walking to work. Now why didn't I think of that?

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FFS.

Oslo, Sweden is a city of 454 square kilometres, 242 square kilometres of which is forest.
Melbourne, Victoria is a city of 8,806 square kilometres.

Yep.. we really want to model ourselves on Sweden, because the geography is so similar.

JMO · 11-01-2009, 07:36 PM

This is just a joke! Travel time is going to go through the roof!

Daymoe · 11-01-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azaxr8

30 yay! can't wait till the freeway is 10km/h

We will be all sitting in our cars watching the joggers on the sidewalk point fingers and laugh at us as they slowly overtake us.

XR6_190 · 11-01-2009, 08:54 PM

Well this is just ridiculous, honestly how simple is it, a road is for vehicles, (cars, motorcycles, trucks and the like) and a footpath/ sidewalk is for the pedestrians. Now if I were to drive my XR6 onto the footpath I would most likely be thrown in jail. Yet when a pedestrian drunkenly stumbles in front of me on the ROAD, I'm the one at fault. You just can't win when driving.

Why is it that the Australian governments (federal and state) are so scared of using a little bit of common sense? It's about time we had a revue of our local laws regarding pedestrian/ vehicle contact, I understand that when people are drunk their behaviour can be erratic, but why punish the innocent driver?

4Vman · 11-01-2009, 09:01 PM

Here's a conspiracy theory for you, i reakon the insurance companies are driving some of these pushes... TAC/3rd party and civil claims cost them billions...
Australia is rapidly catching the US system of litigate at any opportunity..

vanman_75 · 11-01-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azaxr8

30 yay! can't wait till the freeway is 10km/h

that would take me 120 hrs of driving 1 way to see my mum,with ten hrs a day 12 days each way ,nearly a month round trip . was looking at getting a plane years ago ,might be the end result if this crud keeps up

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flappist · 11-01-2009, 09:18 PM

Stop whinging and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

These academic drop kicks do not have any special powers. You can lobby your MP just as much as they can.

Join the party. Then you can actually vote. According to the BBS AFF has over 46000 members. That is more than the total membership of the Labor, Liberal & National parties combined.
If we all joined then WE would control ALL state and federal road rules.....that it how it works.

Unfortunately the majority of AFF members prefer to whinge and do nothing because that is easy so we are probably stuffed.....

AUIIForte · 11-01-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Oh please.........

Do you ever check your mirrors, gauges, adjust your stereo, look at the clock, things around you, survey the road around you, look at passengers, BLINK, etc......?
Maintaining your speed has always been a requirement of driving...
Anyone who can't perform this most basic fundamental driving function without becoming a distracted death risk on the road should hand their license in now...

You're stretching it a bit far there. From what I have heard, in Vic, even just a couple of K's over the limit, and the cameras will book you. And for those people who don't have cruise control, don't know the area well or are changing from different speeds (ie from 50km/h to an 80km/h road), they will most definitely be paying more attention to their speedo than anything you mentioned above.

Here in Canberra, I'm very happy with the way our roads are going. I basically don't even have to look at my speedo when I drive. Maybe one little glance and that's it. But its far more tight in Vic and understandable that one would pay more attention to their speedo.

And if a police officer pulled me over for running over a person, there would be a very strong chance that the pedestrian was in fault, so I would need no excuse.

bigdude1011 · 11-01-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

Here in Canberra, I'm very happy with the way our roads are going.

That's because we know the alternative. Walking to work takes half the time to catch the bus there, going through every side road of a suburb that doesn't exist.

: Though it is good, there is no traffic on any street, pity the education and healthcare systems are much inferior

Daymoe · 11-01-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Stop whinging and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

These academic drop kicks do not have any special powers. You can lobby your MP just as much as they can.

Join the party. Then you can actually vote. According to the BBS AFF has over 46000 members. That is more than the total membership of the Labor, Liberal & National parties combined.
If we all joined then WE would control ALL state and federal road rules.....that it how it works.

Unfortunately the majority of AFF members prefer to whinge and do nothing because that is easy so we are probably stuffed.....

Sign up for what and how do you join?

Stattic · 11-01-2009, 10:25 PM

the speed limit was changed to 50km/h in built up areas because of one key point

IT WAS PROVEN THAT IF YOU NOTICED SOMEONE JUMP OUT ONTO THE ROAD AT 50KH/H YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO STOP IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME

therefore to lower speed limits further is the states admission that the pedestrians are the ones acting unsafely. the problem with pedestrians, and im sure they have all been said numerous times in this thread is walking out from behind trees or from the front of cars, people getting off buses and crossing the road straight away from in front of the bus, crud like that
sometimes you just can not blame the driver no matter what speed they are travelling

snappy · 11-01-2009, 11:18 PM

it will be funny when cyclists are getting booked for speeding. Who are these people can we vote to send them to island or somthing and stop stuffing up our country.

balthazarr · 11-01-2009, 11:24 PM

There are so many things wrong with this article...

I'll save the government (who funds much of the Monash centre's research) a few million dollars, and give them the results of their three year study: The optimal impact speed for reducing injuries and fatalities is.... 0.

I'm a genius.

flappist · 12-01-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Sign up for what and how do you join?

The political party of your choice....

www.alp.org.au

www.liberal.org.au

www.nationals.org.au

These are the players, the rest are window dressing. Choose the one that is closest to your personal beliefs and then make you mark.

Which ever you choose, it is for you, others may think it is wrong but that is for them.

After all, remember AFF is a place where wars start over the number of cylinders in your favorite engine.......