Focus ST beats Toyota 86 GTS - Page 2

mike_nofx · 14-10-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not competing in the same "class", but they're the same price, really the only difference is one drives the rear wheels and the other drives the front, I don't care about that.

For me that means I'd cross shop them both.

To me, "hot hatch" and "sports" are the same.

Of the two people I know who actually have laid money down and have the 86 on order, neither would have bought a hot hatch as an alternative.

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Of the two people I know who actually have laid money down and have the 86 on order, neither would have bought a hot hatch as an alternative.

Good luck to them?

It seems all the RWD fanboys on here drive auto Falcons/Commodores and its superior to any FWD car, just because it drives the rear wheels.

Falcon and Commodore do their job perfectly fine as a family sedan, don't get me wrong, but they're hardly the best in handling and driving dynamics really, it goes fairly quick in a straight line and thats it.

XR6Runner · 14-10-2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Good luck to them?

It seems all the RWD fanboys on here drive auto Falcons/Commodores and its superior to any FWD car, just because it drives the rear wheels.

Falcon and Commodore do their job perfectly fine as a family sedan, don't get me wrong, but they're hardly the best in handling and driving dynamics really, it goes fairly quick in a straight line and thats it.

Read this thread: http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11379071 and tell me once again how awful the falcon and commodore is with its handling and bad dynamics. Can you see how fast the F6 and XR6 Turbo goes around that track, and the cars its beating? (All cars are stock)

**Polyal** · 14-10-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not competing in the same "class", but they're the same price, really the only difference is one drives the rear wheels and the other drives the front, I don't care about that.

For me that means I'd cross shop them both.

To me, "hot hatch" and "sports" are the same.

Thats a perfectly valid argument and I dont disagree..but then take the 86 off your list because its not as practical as a 5 door hatch, and it was never built with the focus, golf et al in its sights.

There is a huuuge difference between hot hatch and a sports car. Again, just because a hot hatch can achieve certain criteria does not mean its a sports car. Its a blurred line sometimes but there is a difference, the 86 was designed, developed and built with driving in mind...thats it...the Focus and the rest are products of hotting up a passenger car.

Some people want a car that is just transport, some want transport with a bit of punch, and then some want a more pure experience...all are good for various reasons but there is a difference between all of them even though some attributes are shared.

jpd80 · 14-10-2012, 10:53 AM

A refreshingly positive review from carsguide, it's so good to see a writer focusing on what's good about today's cars
ST is an amazing package that surely puts Ford front and centre with hot hatch buyers, and that has to be a good thing.

I don't agree with comparisons with the likes of Toyota 86 as that is arguably a more specific sports car
buyer demographic - something maybe a Mustang in varying configurations could better fill at a later time?

SumoDog68 · 14-10-2012, 11:37 PM

In current Top Gear UK edition mag Focus ST Is rated above Megane, Vauxhall VXR and Golf GTI . Times are pretty close -Stig preffered the Megane ,ST is better allrounder.

flappist · 14-10-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not competing in the same "class", but they're the same price, really the only difference is one drives the rear wheels and the other drives the front, I don't care about that.

For me that means I'd cross shop them both.

To me, "hot hatch" and "sports" are the same.

Yes and to some people Camry and Falcon are in the same class.

But then others who actually have some understanding about motor vehicles would think that those people had no idea and would be very amused should there be a post of a car enthusiast forum by someone stating this.

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes and to some people Camry and Falcon are in the same class.

But then others who actually have some understanding about motor vehicles would think that those people had no idea and would be very amused should there be a post of a car enthusiast forum by someone stating this.

Meh, I don't profess to be gods gift to motor vehicles, I just state what I think and probably what mr joe average is thinking.

tranquilized · 14-10-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Meh, I don't profess to be gods gift to motor vehicles, I just state what I think and probably what mr joe average is thinking.

But Mr Joe Average isn't a car enthusiast, so who really cares what he thinks?

What I do agree with you on though, is that the Focus and 86 can, and will be cross shopped by a lot of buyers. And I suspect to the people who do cross shop them, the RWD vs FWD aspect will be less of a factor than other points of difference such as rear seats or an automatic transmission.

Make no mistake though, the Toyota is the sports car, the Ford is the sporty car. Big difference.

flappist · 14-10-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Meh, I don't profess to be gods gift to motor vehicles, I just state what I think and probably what mr joe average is thinking.

Mr Joe Average will buy neither as they are both above average in performance and price while both below average in comfort, fuel economy and ease of operation.

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Mr Joe Average will buy neither as they are both above average in performance and price while both below average in comfort, fuel economy and ease of operation.

I'd buy one and I'd consider myself "average", its on the list, but I'm not a "car enthusiast" either because I like modern FWD cars?

Chrisosicko · 14-10-2012, 11:12 AM

After playing around with a st yesterday I am seriously considering trading in my gt for one. They are a lot better than u might think

LukeyST · 14-10-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisosicko

After playing around with a st yesterday I am seriously considering trading in my gt for one. They are a lot better than u might think

THIS is a big statement to make. Good to hear from someone who has actually driven one also!

Chrisosicko · 14-10-2012, 02:53 PM

Seems to be a lot of people knocking them without driving either of them, use should expect to see a lot of both of these cars on the road.

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 03:26 PM

How does a positive thread end like this? If you don't like the car or FWD of vice versa why post. Some people will never be happy.

|Nate · 14-10-2012, 06:04 PM

It's interesting seeing peoples opinions on hot hatches and FWD layouts.
I guess I'm super lucky to have a hot hatch that's RWD

FordACE · 14-10-2012, 06:42 PM

I'm seriously considering this car to replace the partners Mirage. It sounds like a beauty. Manual is perfect for us because that's all we want to drive.

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 08:09 PM

Can we keep the chat about the ST vs 86 thanks. I dont go into other new car threads and complain they are wrong wheel drive so id expect the same in return.

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 09:43 PM

Mid 8's lol. It's dead even to 100 with our Polo GTi and its high 6's to 100. What would I know though, I've only driven them lol.

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Mid 8's lol. It's dead even to 100 with our Polo GTi and its high 6's to 100. What would I know though, I've only driven them lol.

Your Polo must be a total slug then.

I've seen three different timed acceleration runs for the Veloster Turbo and they have all been in the 8's for 0-100. Numbers don't lie.

You might need to get the Polo checked to make sure its not running on 3 cylinders or something.

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 09:47 PM

Veloster on par with the ST, that made me

hell it wouldnt even keep up with an XR5.
Then get them on a decent road and the ST would run rings around the Veloster (I like the Veloster)

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Veloster on par with the ST, that made me

hell it wouldnt even keep up with an XR5.
Then get them on a decent road and the ST would run rings around the Veloster (I like the Veloster)

So you've driven the Veloster turbo?

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

So you've driven the Veloster turbo?

Admittedly no i havnt, and nothing wrong with making assumptions many on here do. That said my post was IMO looking at power, torque and weight figures it looks to be a no brainer compared to old ST and the newer one has more again.
Anyway again this thread is about the ST. That and i dont see the point in arguing with someone on the internet because i disagree.

XR Martin · 14-10-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

So you've driven the Veloster turbo?

Have you driven a Focus ST?
No
So why are you comparing its performance to a Veloster?

Fact is the Focus ST is capable of mid-low 14s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujnuXb_dLYk

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 10:01 PM

You guys kill me, fair dinkum. LOL.

Fiesta_Man69 · 14-10-2012, 10:05 PM

Most reviews have the Veloster turbo high 7s and low eights which would be bout right for the hp of the car (lowest out of ST, Gti, megane etc)... Which is fine as the Veloster beats them all on price... Also leaves alot of headroom for a 200kW $45K version later on. Just because you've driven one doesn't change this...

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 10:08 PM

It's a much quicker car than high 7's, but carry on.

Fiesta_Man69 · 14-10-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

It's a much quicker car than high 7's, but carry on.

So go buy one for yourself.

In Focus · 14-10-2012, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

It's a much quicker car than high 7's, but carry on.

I agree, and I have driven the Veloster Turbo. I rate it pretty close in acceleration with my Fabia RS, which is supposedly a touch slower than the Polo GTI. Which bears out your own comparison.

The ST looks to be another step up again, though.

jpd80 · 14-10-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

It's a much quicker car than high 7's, but carry on.

Motor Trend in the USA measured Veloster at 0-60 in 6.9 seconds and 15.2 for the quarter, I'd say that pretty right..
They had the Golf GTI at 0-60 in 6.1 seconds and 14.7 seconds for the quarter mile..