Holden could be sold as GM goes into 'death spiral'

[BlueRaven]

I think it would be an intelligent move for Toyota to buy Holden. Their market share in Australia would absolutely destroy everything else (even though it currently leads anyway).

I believe it would be like Renault buying Nissan. All seems normal (from the consumers perspective) at first, then they start releasing strange looking bug cars down the track.

So yeah, I think the commodore would last a few years before it was converted to a fwd car with boost.

[Falcon Coupe]

Has Holden always been owned by GM ? or were they purchased at some stage.

[eb2fairmont]

Strategically both Holden and Isuzu will be kept as they form the basis for trucks and the zeta platform which is likely to save GM's *** by giving consumers something they want to own (other than a pickup).

Next to go will be SAAB - closedown. Gm will probably sell it's holdings in Hughes and remove another brand from the Us market.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

The UAW is an example where a union has become too powerful and has forgotten the reason why it exists - to protect the worker!

I'm not union bashing. What I am trying so say is if GM US and Ford US built good cars that sold in high numbers then there would be enough money going around to cover all expenses, including these union negotiate perks. As GM and Ford aren't doing well in the US, they find themselves in a situation where it is the union negotiated perks which are causing them the most damage at this point in time.

FF

Don't totally blame the Union, blame GM too. They approved the deal. They thought they were invincible and would never go through what they are going through now.It was a total lack of foresight that got that deal through, when things were good they would reward the workers, but not realisizing that things could one day go pear shaped means its come back to bite them on the ***. Surely they should have realised how much money it was going to cost them in future years.

[chich]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

I think it would be an intelligent move for Toyota to buy Holden. Their market share in Australia would absolutely destroy everything else (even though it currently leads anyway).

I believe it would be like Renault buying Nissan. All seems normal (from the consumers perspective) at first, then they start releasing strange looking bug cars down the track.

So yeah, I think the commodore would last a few years before it was converted to a fwd car with boost.

Why would Toyota do something as silly as buying out Holden? It offers them absolutely nothing other than a few buildings and an engine plant which Holden is more than likely leasing from a 'middle man' anyways. In Toyota's (and every other competitors eyes) it would be more advantegeous for them to turn up the pressure even higher and continue drilling Holden into the ground - why pay for something when you can simply eliminate it?

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by chich

Why would Toyota do something as silly as buying out Holden? It offers them absolutely nothing other than a few buildings and an engine plant which Holden is more than likely leasing from a 'middle man' anyways. In Toyota's (and every other competitors eyes) it would be more advantegeous for them to turn up the pressure even higher and continue drilling Holden into the ground - why pay for something when you can simply eliminate it?

There is nothing Toyota would gain by buying Holden. It will not happen.

FF

[BlueRaven]

Originally Posted by chich

Why would Toyota do something as silly as buying out Holden? It offers them absolutely nothing other than a few buildings and an engine plant which Holden is more than likely leasing from a 'middle man' anyways. In Toyota's (and every other competitors eyes) it would be more advantegeous for them to turn up the pressure even higher and continue drilling Holden into the ground - why pay for something when you can simply eliminate it?

and this is why I will never own a business :

[Iphido]

I could see GM keeping a 51% share in Holden and sell the rest on the stock market. This way they get to keep controlling interest in Holden and much needed cash.

Im sure then we would get a good idea who has the sort of cash to buy holden.. I dont belive theres a chinese manufacturer with that much cash. Toyota could buy it and operate it as a independant brand. The Australian government might also want to buy a share. Im sure plenty in Australia would be keen to buy a bit of holden too.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by chich

Why would Toyota do something as silly as buying out Holden? It offers them absolutely nothing other than a few buildings and an engine plant which Holden is more than likely leasing from a 'middle man' anyways. In Toyota's (and every other competitors eyes) it would be more advantegeous for them to turn up the pressure even higher and continue drilling Holden into the ground - why pay for something when you can simply eliminate it?

Toyota has very openly stated that it does not want GM to die. So if buying out Holden would give GM some kind of aid and keep them running... they could very well do it. Holden, on a global scale, is puny. It's a spec. They could buy it out without even noticing.

[tickin]

I hear that Skaife has put his hand up to buy them!! :

[GOLDIE]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Don't totally blame the Union, blame GM too. They approved the deal. They thought they were invincible and would never go through what they are going through now.It was a total lack of foresight that got that deal through, when things were good they would reward the workers, but not realisizing that things could one day go pear shaped means its come back to bite them on the ***. Surely they should have realised how much money it was going to cost them in future years.

If that is the case than why have the unions not come back and said lets save all these jobs and remove all those costly things from the award.

This would have to be one of the biggest pieces of s**t i have ever read on this site.

The unions are still pushing for more.

And they are doing the same to ford aswell.

Ian

[GOLDIE]

Originally Posted by tickin

I hear that Skaife has put his hand up to buy them!! :

He will buy for a dollar like he did the race team.


Ian

[jcxr]

The engine plant could be an interesting scenario as it manufactures all the Opel engines for export.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by GOLDIE

If that is the case than why have the unions not come back and said lets save all these jobs and remove all those costly things from the award.

This would have to be one of the biggest pieces of s**t i have ever read on this site.

The unions are still pushing for more.

And they are doing the same to ford aswell.

Ian

I hear what your saying, but management steered them into the ground and you think the workers have to bail them out. GM is swimming in their own sh*t, they made the decision to pay health care, do you expect average joes to want to give it up, especially when most are retired and don't have to worry about losing their jobs. Surely they should have known this could happen?

[Kenno]

why would GM sell a company that is doing well for them? i thought you would sell the ones that are going bad.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by jcxr

The engine plant could be an interesting scenario as it manufactures all the Opel engines for export.

Having been the victim of one of these (in a Barina) I would say that would be no loss.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

As said above, GM will continue to sell any stake in other automotive companies which it has aquired over the years before they consider selling Holden. In the last year GM has bailed out of Fiat, Subaru and Suzuki. I predict that GM will bail out of Isuzu next.

FF

It appears my prediction is about to be proven correct:

Link to news article

FF

[Dave_au]

Looks like one of the many Mitsubishi family companies have been suggested/approached for tender.

[LethalLeigh]

It's scary the state of affairs with the large car market. But the Americans have struggled for years to develop a product that can rival the Japanese. Even now with possible death staring them in the face they continue to develop products that aren't relevant to the survival of the brand (namely retro muscle cars). With a big shift towards diesel, hybrid and then hydrogen powered cars, America offers little of any of these products whilst the European and Japanese companies are producing plenty of production models.

Scariest of all is that should these companies shoot themselves in the foot, the Australian market is in real trouble. Our cars, as much as we love them are far too unique to be economically viable. It will only be a matter of time before a beancounter will suggest simply assembling a foreign product here, if not import the whole lot.

[banarcus]

I'd better start collecting some spares and keep a few falcons in the back yard like a fella did with the P76.

[Iphido]

Holden would be in really bad shape if it wasnt for the UAE exports.. They sell more statesmans than they do here and the monaro and the commodore help to nicely round out the numbers. They are high profit exports too, unlike the US ones.

Our cars are currently viable. Mitsubishi will most likely fall by the way side. Its inevitable. Best they can hope for is a barely profitable local business to help suppliment small volume exporting.

Australian manufacturers definately have to be economical. Lucky that Ford OZ fixed itself before the crisis in the US, otherwise it would be serious cutbacks.

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

Dont they continue to pay the worker's after they sack them up untill they find new work or something along those lines.

Thats right till they find another job. That is one of their biggest problems, why would you look for another job if you were getting a full wage and can go to the beach everyday.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

It appears my prediction is about to be proven correct:

Link to news article

FF

My prediction was correct - GM announced last week that it will sell the 7.9% it owns of Isuzu. Click here for news article

Fiat
Subaru
Suzuki
Isuzu
plus the GM credit/finance division - all sold in the last 15 months

What is the next thing/division GM will sell?

FF

[ltd]

They'll probably sell themselves to the Shanghai Auto Industrie. As China gets more and more powerful, GM could find a lucrative price there rather than going chapter 11. And they're not the only ones either.

Another industry giant; Airbus, could be sold off to the chinese should the manufacturers all new A380 be a failure. With a requirement of atleast 250 units to break even, and orders stalling at 154, the European giant could make the spruce goose look like a formidable opponent.

With recent civil action over its carbon fibre empenage fatigue on the A380 as well as empenage failures (American flight 587, Air Transat and many other rudder failures), to say Airbus is under alot of pressure is an understatement.
Furthermore the recent 12 month delays and relevant compensation for the already 30 tonne overweight A380 has airlines worried it will not be able to complete missions with full fuel and payload.

The sense of deja vu airlines are feeling now over the same crippling problems with the A340 being unable to fly a full compliment mission has Airlines like Emirates lining up to take potshots at the manufacturer. Competition from Boeing has already seen hundreds of new orders go to the American rival, necessitating massive capital injections from French and other European governments to remain viable. Resultantly any more bad news has industry insiders speculating the buyout from the peoples republic as they seek to find new nationalistic markets to dominate.

What's this got to do with cars? Dunno.

[chief]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

My prediction was correct - GM announced last week that it will sell the 7.9% it owns of Isuzu. Click here for news article

Fiat
Subaru
Suzuki
Isuzu
plus the GM credit/finance division - all sold in the last 15 months

What is the next thing/division GM will sell?

FF

What about Saab? GM own a part share in it - they only bought it a couple of months ago.

[crYnOid]

Originally Posted by chief

What about Saab? GM own a part share in it - they only bought it a couple of months ago.

Those brands don't use GM specific chassis etc. GM just had a stake in them. Saab, Holden, Daewoo, Opel + others are all to tightly intertwined into GM to sell easily.

GM purchased half of Saab in 1990. GM then purchased 100% of Saab in 2000.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

My prediction was correct - GM announced last week that it will sell the 7.9% it owns of Isuzu. Click here for news article

The original article in the original post already said that GM was bailing on Isuzu, don't pat yourself on the back.

[XPcoupe]

Originally Posted by GOLDIE

He will buy for a dollar like he did the race team.

Well thats all it is worth.... :

[4.9 EF Futura]

I guess the good news is that GM arent looking to close GMH... i'd much rather see the company sold in a fire sale as opposed to being "consolidated".

I think the best scenario would be if GMH and FoMoCo Aust floated on the ASX. Australian built cars, built for Australians - and owned by Australians. Altho this can have some undesirable effects... GMH as it stands now, need only turn a profit to keep parent company happy... no short term fixes to marginally bolster the share price...

Hard to believe they sold GMAC... letting go of a cash cow like that really demonstrates how desperate they are to pay off the debt.

Regarding the benefits for past employees... this could have been managed if it were addressed from day 1. We have many defined benefit funds in Australia (altho they are a dying breed for obvious reasons)... its possible to calculate how much money needs to be put away in order to meet future benefits. Just look as the CSS/PSS government pension funds (ok, so prob not a great example as one of them has a $10 billiob deficit... lol).

So yeah... the pendulum probably swung a bit too far towards the union but look at the might and muscle of the UAW and this comes as no suprise. But the deal was obviously managed poorly from GMH's perspective. An interesting case study in industrial relations - but that's cold comfort for those whose heads are on the chopping block....

[fmc351]

For those who look to Unions as being too big. Think again. The unions only obtain wages that the market can sustain, ever. Before you start ranting about the market obviously unable to sustain it, thats not right. Management failed not the market, cars are being sold at record numbers, its the particular management that has failed. The market was there, they failed to get a share of it, and no worker can be blamed for that. So now execs move to tactic 2, you must take paycuts or you wont have a job at all. The problem is record exec pay for record incompetence. The market doesnt stop buying GM because its GM, it switches because GM fails to deliver. Theres too much pork in Exec payments, and not enough whip. The buck stops at management, but management only ever give that notion lip service. I mean, we all know that the factory floor worker doing 7.6 hours a day, is driving a 2005 S class Merc and eating caviar with his organic corn flakes as Jeeves rounds the corner for the next failed working day after a huge night on the company tab. Of course he should lose the home he's been diligently paying off for the last 15 yrs. I mean, he turns up each day, puts in his hours and budgets his income, how dare he do that. Get a grip on reality and put the man meat down.

Execs spend too much time gaming the performance evaluation system at the long term expense of the business, and the public allow them to get away with it. Governments and ASIC like arrangements wont do anything to correct it, so yeah its up to you. Alternatively, keep getting played sucker.