global warming myth or fact ? the new ice age

[troppo]

Originally Posted by philstoj

Its all in the funding for them mate, and the lack of it, but if they scare the pants off everyone with all these scary stories, they certainly will get the extra funding, by the barrow load...

I wonder how the govt pays for it.

Call me a cynic but yes, Global warming is all about money. Specifically, carbon tax and carbon trading seem to be the buzzwords.

The general consensus here seems to be that there isn't yet enough evidence either way to be sure whether global warming is natural or caused by mankind, but that hasn't stopped major steps being taken toward the introduction of global carbon trading.

[Josh_XC]

Originally Posted by troppo

Call me a cynic but yes, Global warming is all about money. Specifically, carbon tax and carbon trading seem to be the buzzwords.

The general consensus here seems to be that there isn't yet enough evidence either way to be sure whether global warming is natural or caused by mankind, but that hasn't stopped major steps being taken toward the introduction of global carbon trading.

Troppo - Thank you mate, a voice of reason, I totally 100% agree with this post. Global warming is all about the money!

[burnz]

Originally Posted by troppo

Call me a cynic but yes, Global warming is all about money. Specifically, carbon tax and carbon trading seem to be the buzzwords.

The general consensus here seems to be that there isn't yet enough evidence either way to be sure whether global warming is natural or caused by mankind, but that hasn't stopped major steps being taken toward the introduction of global carbon trading.

i think it's real and the goverment seen a new tax fund.
so yes i agree with you.

[PHATXR8]

Originally Posted by nicholas

if ice all melts then sea should drop by a few inch's, the really amazing thing is we were told sea levals could rise by a foot or so

Thye main reason that they are predicting sea level rises is because of the melting of the ice in the world which is not in/on the sea, rather it is the ice on land that will melt and cause sea levels to rise.

Has anyone noticed the studies released recently that 98% of the earths galciers have shrunk significantly in the past 35 years, and particularly the past 5 years. In factonly 2 glaciers out of several hundred in the world have got larger in the past couple of years.

[Whitey-AMG]

Global warming is certainly a natural phenomenon that has cyclic occurences..........YES............however, the biggest issue has been the time phase of these cycles. Global warming over several hundred or thousand years allows for the environment ( flora and fauna )to adapt.

The issue we have here is the truncated time line of the warming effect. The temp has risen "considerably" ( from a global average scale ) over a very short time span which can and will be devavstating to our environment even within our own human lifespan. Glaciers disapearing, weather inconsistencies, ocean temperatures rising, and the amount of CO2 constantly rising well above the global average that has been seen over the last couple of thousand years.

Are we contributing to accelerating the process.........that is the question...........and I must categorically say YES.........and believe it or not, a lot of the concern is over our over use of agricultural and grazing practices.........COWS. They are basically CO2 and METHANE factories. Coupled with unprecedented forest clearing which leaves less and less FLORA for C02 soak up, accelerated industrialistaion in both CHINA and INDIA and you have a recipe for continued and accelerated GLOBAL temperature increase.

[Mark351]

The earth has had a greater concentration of Co2 in its history without man's influence. Super volcanoes haven't been erupting in big numbers in recent times... If a few of those were to go off, and the mean temperature will drop. It is correct though, the deforestation of the earth means it's less capable of absorbing the output of such events.

[Mark351]

The main problem of global warming greenies vs ice age fanatics debate is the average person will never be able to disseminate fact from fiction. 'Fact' can be skewed depending on the view it's intended to support.

For every 'all the glaciers are melting' reports, you get one like this.

http://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htm

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Death351

The main problem of global warming greenies vs ice age fanatics...post edited...

the two are related, melting of fresh water ice dilutes warm salt water and stop's the great ocean current resulting of cooling of the planet.

[vztrt]

Seems that we could be entering a new ice age.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...l-cooling.html

Sun Oddly Quiet -- Hints at Next "Little Ice Age"?
Anne Minard
for National Geographic News
May 4, 2009

A prolonged lull in solar activity has astrophysicists glued to their telescopes waiting to see what the sun will do next—and how Earth's climate might respond.

The sun is the least active it's been in decades and the dimmest in a hundred years. The lull is causing some scientists to recall the Little Ice Age, an unusual cold spell in Europe and North America, which lasted from about 1300 to 1850.

The coldest period of the Little Ice Age, between 1645 and 1715, has been linked to a deep dip in solar storms known as the Maunder Minimum.

During that time, access to Greenland was largely cut off by ice, and canals in Holland routinely froze solid. Glaciers in the Alps engulfed whole villages, and sea ice increased so much that no open water flowed around Iceland in the year 1695.

But researchers are on guard against their concerns about a new cold snap being misinterpreted.

"[Global warming] skeptics tend to leap forward," said Mike Lockwood, a solar terrestrial physicist at the University of Southampton in the U.K. (Get the facts about global warming.)

He and other researchers are therefore engaged in what they call "preemptive denial" of a solar minimum leading to global cooling.

Even if the current solar lull is the beginning of a prolonged quiet, the scientists say, the star's effects on climate will pale in contrast with the influence of human-made greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2).

"I think you have to bear in mind that the CO2 is a good 50 to 60 percent higher than normal, whereas the decline in solar output is a few hundredths of one percent down," Lockwood said. "I think that helps keep it in perspective."

Even so, Lockwood added, small variations in the sun's brightness are more powerful than changes in greenhouse gas contributions. For example, a 50 percent variation in solar brightness would mean the end of life on Earth.

[flappist]

Thats it, now we are going to have to pay for Helium credits.

Bloody greenies.....

[RG]

So this is what happens when my car is off the road for an extended period

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

A drop in temperature for 2007 by 0.7 degrees isn't a trend........ the trend over the past 35 years has been a substantial increase in temperatures.

Anyone who thinks that global warming is a crock is certainly living with their head stuck firmly where the sun doesn't shine!

I dont think anyone is denying that global warming is happening, but imo its ignorent human behaviour to think we can do anything about it. I think people need to understand their is things that happen in this world and universe that our simply out of our hands.
Yes, we are probably accelerating the process, about as much as farting on your chair is wearing it down.
In the end of the day we are only a tiny spec of dust when it comes to changes to the universe. People just have a hard time accepting that we are not the be all and end all, life will continue without us, whether we like it or not.

Just my 2c

[Imagine_]

My 2 cents worth....

The entire global warming is just a scam... if you want the proof.. there is a documentary that goes through all the technical stuff etc....

The main point i got out of it is that the ocean produces like 98% of the earths co2 emissions, followed by volcanoes etc... the human participation of the co2 is somewhere around 0.4%, which i can't see having any effect on anything.. at the end of the day there is something like 70,000 people employed to cover all angles of global warming, if a fad they will all be out of a job...

Anyways, if you want the documentary title, i'll post it when i get home or send you the link to where to d/l it from... its about 1gig file size from memory...

Damo

[Hords]

Originally Posted by tufLTD

It floats because it expands when frozen, weighing less than liquid water but occupying more area. Less than 10% of an iceberg is above water.
As for ice on land, it accounts for way less than 1% of the total water volume on earth. If it all melted, most would be captured in lakes & inland seas and that which made it to the ocean would account for 3/5ths of FA of the total water volume. Would this really raise the sea levels by metres?

Why was it that during the last ice ages you could walk to Tassie, the Yarra flowed out to sea at Port Phillip heads, etc?

[MAD]

There's also doco's 'proving' the existence of UFO's and little green men. There even one 'proving' man has never landed on the moon.

Since the industrial revolution there has been a massive increase in the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere and it continues to rise.

[schnoods]

Yeah nah...

Earth goes through cycles, sure we arent helping it, but it will cope... All the footage of greenland melting is all BS, have a look at summer and winter over there, the country is constantly changing its shape/volume due to temperature changes throughout the year.

Ask any Geo....

[Hords]

I believe it's all just minor cyclic changes. However, we will experience global warming in the future. In another 5 billion years when the sun enters its twilight years it will become a red giant enlarging itself beyond earth's orbit. This I believe will be known as global warming...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by MAD

There's also doco's 'proving' the existence of UFO's and little green men. There even one 'proving' man has never landed on the moon.

Since the industrial revolution there has been a massive increase in the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere and it continues to rise.

How do you know this? What measurements were made before about a week after Al Gore's political career crashed?

How much CO2 etc was here 100,000 years ago? 10,000 years ago, 2000 years ago?

Why has this only been a problem for the last few years?

Oh thats right, the commies were beaten, Y2K was a dud, the terriorists are under control so now we need a new thing to be scared of.... oh pig flu of course, nearly as many people have died or that as have been eaten by lions.

The last and most difficult question is WHY DOES EVERY SOLUTION TO THIS MENACE INVOLVE INCREASING TAX AND PAYING MONEY TO QNGOs?

[MAD]

"How much CO2 etc was here 100,000 years ago? 10,000 years ago, 2000 years ago?"
I dont know myself, but go find a research centre that has taken measurements for these periods, they will have your answer.
CO2 measurements are taken from air bubbles trapped in ice cores. You don't need to be there on the day. A LOT of info can be found from the minerals, gases, etc that were dissolved in the water at the time it was frozen.

There is more to global warming than Al Gore. He was just passionate enough about it to push it to the public, good on him.

[Scott]

My personal timeline for the word:

[insert creation of Earth here]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

The red one at the end is the total of all human thought and records for all time. I don't think we have very much data to look at "trends".

edit - *wondering if I'll be quoted in full*

[flappist]

Originally Posted by MAD

"How much CO2 etc was here 100,000 years ago? 10,000 years ago, 2000 years ago?"
I dont know myself, but go find a research centre that has taken measurements for these periods, they will have your answer.
CO2 measurements are taken from air bubbles trapped in ice cores. You don't need to be there on the day. A LOT of info can be found from the minerals, gases, etc that were dissolved in the water at the time it was frozen.

There is more to global warming than Al Gore. He was just passionate enough about it to push it to the public, good on him.

The most educated intelligent people that had ever live on earth once thought the world was flat. They had a lot of login and reasoning and used the technology of the day to support their "facts".

Based on the knowlege at the time the conclusions they came to were quite valid. We now know they were totally wrong.

I suspect future generations will refer to OUR experts in the same way....

[Scott]

Originally Posted by flappist

The most educated intelligent people that had ever live on earth once thought the world was flat. They had a lot of login and reasoning and used the technology of the day to support their "facts".

I'm picturing an old, grey bearded man in a bed sheet carving his name and password over and again into a rock that is trying to tell him he is using CAPS.

[ea90gl]

Not sure if this has been posted but anyway

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...007146,00.html

If you ask me its all a load of BS in order to produce some $$$ just like so many things out there. And that conclusion didnt just come from the posted link but from actual scientific research

[Daymoe]

It may be happening, but I reckon we're just kinda helping it along, not being the sole cause of it directly, we're just accelerating it

[snappy]

Can't help but think of the Tool song Anaema. "Mums gunna fix it all soon, put it back the way it outta be", referring to Mother Nature

Great song.


I read countless articles about global warming ,some saying its going to happen ,some saying it won't both sides have had convincing arguements .

But for those who care this is what i think its about .
It seemed to me that the global warming issue really gained some voice when oil prices begun to rise. The oil prices affected everything and i think it started a power struggle between the banks and oil companies .

I believe that a global currency will be devolped (replacing oil ) and all the taxes created form the carbon offset tax will be essentually paid to a oppointed world bank. (which will be taxing everything that uses energy)
An they are using global warming properganda to generate fear to gain momentem for there goal taking away power from oil companies and gaining essentually power through having the world economy in there hands.



Now i might be so far off the mark it not funny . This is my conspiricy theory n matter how bad it is. an as you might of guessed has not been alot of thought gone in to it.

An this come from me thinking about who benefits
no global warming = oilcompanies because we will continue to burn at a rapid rate.
global warming = apec or what ever this global goverment will call them selves . Will gather money from taxing the burning of energy.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

A drop in temperature for 2007 by 0.7 degrees isn't a trend........ the trend over the past 35 years has been a substantial increase in temperatures.

Anyone who thinks that global warming is a crock is certainly living with their head stuck firmly where the sun doesn't shine!

anyone who thinks this is not just a part of the natural environment as the sun shines and rains come down has their head very firmly where you said.
anyone who thinks that man can change anything about this so called global bs has their head even further in. :togo:

[greenfoam]

Never ask this question on a car forum, it's like asking the worlds best nintendo player how to make a girl pass out from pleasure, no clue

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Never ask this question on a car forum, it's like asking the worlds best nintendo player how to make a girl pass out from pleasure, no clue

// on a side topic, are you about 40 years old? Curious because you said "Nintendo" lol.

[onfire]

Its fact. Without a doubt. Its happening. I just don't agree with some of the theories that its 100% the human species fault for any significant shift in the climate.

I'm one to believe that its a cycle, we've discovered changes in the earth's climate in the past that were clearly not the result of human influence.

[snappy]

In the end of the day it will not hurt us to use or natural resources more carefully.