Jail term for Ferrari crash deaths

[Black F6]

Thats pretty harsh if he didnt hit him, would definately win on appeal, with a half decent lawyer

[Charliewool]

Hmmmm..... Wonders to myself what your thoughts on jail would be, if it had of been a VL Commie P plater instead of a Ford GT?
(Not for a minute, am I questioning anyone's bias here, of course!

[GT450]

You guys amaze me there are 2 dead people as a result of this . If it were one of your relatives would you then be saying let him of with a misdemeanour. If he were driving a GM product you would be saying good he got what he deserved. He contributed to the result and in doing so broke the law. He deserves what he got and the judge is sending you a message dont speed , don't drag race on public roads . If you cant understand this simple concept no wonder you get your cars impounded.
Cheers
Gt450

[dom_105]

Who was his lawyer, Harold Scruby?

[RG]

Originally Posted by GT450

You guys amaze me there are 2 dead people as a result of this . If it were one of your relatives would you then be saying let him of with a misdemeanour. If he were driving a GM product you would be saying good he got what he deserved. He contributed to the result and in doing so broke the law. He deserves what he got and the judge is sending you a message dont speed , don't drag race on public roads . If you cant understand this simple concept no wonder you get your cars impounded.
Cheers
Gt450

Hang on, don't paint us all with the same brush. I don't really care what he was driving, all I care about is the fact that the sentence does not fit the crime.

This is a longer sentence than what the drunk bloke who ran head on into a friend and killed her got. In my mind, that is not fair as she didn't contribute anything to that accident apart from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's also a longer sentence than what some armed robbers get, persons who commit serious assault, attempted murder and even some paedophiles get. Puts it into perspective doesn't it.

The Ferrari driver was doing the wrong thing and chose to, he was stupid enough to drive beyond his skill limits and unfortunately came to grief and took his passenger with him. Sure the GT driver should be charged, convicted and sentenced but this is way over the top.

[ea90gl]

So what now, if I get lung cancer from smoking (touch wood) can I go sue all my old mates that peer pressured me? NO because I made the decision to start and keep smoking. That sentence is a total joke. I'm sick of the blame game everyone plays these days, they try and find all the little details that enables people to point the finger at someone else. Harden up and take the responsibility

[Springfield_Johny]

If I commit an armed robbery with an accomplice and the accomplice shoots and kills someone arn't I guilty of the murder as well even though I didn't pull the trigger? Whild the GT40 driver didn't pull the trigger so to speak, he was an accomplice just the same. Or have I been watching too much law and order

[RG]

Originally Posted by johnandjus

If I commit an armed robbery with an accomplice and the accomplice shoots and kills someone arn't I guilty of the murder as well even though I didn't pull the trigger? Whild the GT40 driver didn't pull the trigger so to speak, he was an accomplice just the same. Or have I been watching too much law and order

Not murder no, accomplice to the fact which is a lesser sentence.

EDIT: Sorry I should have said accessory to murder, still a lesser charge as you weren't the one to pull the trigger. Same can be said in this case.

[jcxr]

I can smell an appeal in sentence coming up.

[Saiken]

...wait a minute.... so this guy goes to jail for 3 years for that...

.....and rapists, child molester's and people that belt the crap out of others just for fun get suspended sentences..... wow.. this totally seems fair....

NOT!

[Saiken]

Originally Posted by johnandjus

If I commit an armed robbery with an accomplice and the accomplice shoots and kills someone arn't I guilty of the murder as well even though I didn't pull the trigger? Whild the GT40 driver didn't pull the trigger so to speak, he was an accomplice just the same. Or have I been watching too much law and order

as russell said its "accessory to murder" which is a much lighter sentence, and if you showed genuine remorse and could come up with some lame mental reason for doing the robbery... [ie. suffering from depression from losing your job in the current economical situation, you also have a kid on the way, blah blah blah] the sentence can be very light.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by GT450

You guys amaze me there are 2 dead people as a result of this . If it were one of your relatives would you then be saying let him of with a misdemeanour. If he were driving a GM product you would be saying good he got what he deserved. He contributed to the result and in doing so broke the law. He deserves what he got and the judge is sending you a message dont speed , don't drag race on public roads . If you cant understand this simple concept no wonder you get your cars impounded.
Cheers
Gt450

The bit that nobody will ever know is whether the 32 yo Ferrari driver baited the 42 yo GT driver into the race to try an impress his 27 yo girlfriend then lost control of a car he had no idea how to drive at high speed.

I've had a few situations where I've launched at the lights up to the speed limit (take note - up to the speed limit !!) , then a guy next to me in a sports car takes me on but keeps going faster until he's out of sight....Now if he hits a powerpoll 1 km up the road doing 160 kph and kills himself and his pasenger do I deserve to go to jail?.....I doubt it as I've commited no crime

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by GT450

You guys amaze me there are 2 dead people as a result of this . If it were one of your relatives would you then be saying let him of with a misdemeanour. If he were driving a GM product you would be saying good he got what he deserved. He contributed to the result and in doing so broke the law. He deserves what he got and the judge is sending you a message dont speed , don't drag race on public roads . If you cant understand this simple concept no wonder you get your cars impounded.
Cheers
Gt450

I love posts like this when clowns like you feel the need to second guess what everyone thinks. Fact of the matter is, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. This has set a precedent now, anyone who looks like they are street racing could be facing a jail sentence.

Utter crap. Don't get me wrong, it's sad that two people died, but they knew what they were doing.

[Saiken]

Originally Posted by GT450

You guys amaze me there are 2 dead people as a result of this . If it were one of your relatives would you then be saying let him of with a misdemeanour. If he were driving a GM product you would be saying good he got what he deserved. He contributed to the result and in doing so broke the law. He deserves what he got and the judge is sending you a message dont speed , don't drag race on public roads . If you cant understand this simple concept no wonder you get your cars impounded.
Cheers
Gt450

So does that mean if my mate said, "hey man lets going swimming down in that water with all those sharks" and i think, man that will be a rush. Then we both do it and I get eaten [:] and he doesn't, that he should goto jail for 3 years? :togo:

[balthazarr]

How about we put this into perspective:

This bloke gets almost 5 years for the deaths of two people that he was not responsible for... sure, he may have egged on the Ferrari driver but he didn't put his foot on the Ferrari's go pedal.

Then, we have this gang of 'bored' youths who 'thought', just for 'fun' mind you, that they'd set fire to a mentally ill man and his home, who are facing a maximum of six years prison.

Please. How can that possibly be justice?

http://www.theage.com.au/national/pr...0223-8fvj.html
"VICTORIA'S most senior criminal prosecutor has argued that a maximum sentence of up to six years in an adult prison is appropriate for the five young men who set fire to a harmless Rosebud man with a serious mental illness.

But the County Court judge who will sentence them faces a difficult decision as their lawyers fight to have them detained in a youth justice centre. ..."

(As an aside, how is it a difficult decision for the judge?)

[desGT]

2 drivers had a race. 2 people were killed because of that. Sorry, but the GT driver WAS involved in the incident and deaths resulted. Definately tough, but certainly not undeserved.

[ltd_on20s]

he will appeal the sentence
he'll get off, probably lose his license and get a 12 month good behaviour bond.
there is no way a higher court can uphold that decision based on the fact that both parties were in different cars at the time, and no collision between the cars took place
basically what the judge is trying to say that onus was on the driver of the GT to make sure that the ferrari driver slowed down. thats impossible to uphold.

[geehaa]

Originally Posted by desGT

2 drivers had a race.

You should have stopped there, because that's all you got right...

Originally Posted by desGT

2 people were killed because of that. Sorry, but the GT driver WAS involved in the incident and deaths resulted. Definately tough, but certainly not undeserved.

I don't think he should not be punished - he should, he was street racing - but his actions didn't cause the deaths. The Ferrari driver went beyond his ability and that's what resulted in the deaths.

The issue here is that the "time" seems disproportionate to the "crime" of street racing.

[JC]

4 years is too little, IMO. Street racers in general should get that sentence, those where the result is someone dying should get the same as you would for manslaughter (say 15 years or so). It's not like people don't know that doing stupid speeds on public roads is dangerous - everyone knows it is, so those who decide to ignore that and do street racing need to be punished properly, and maybe our road toll will have a chance to reduce.

Now, I am not talking about speeding by say up to 10km/h on a fine day, or even the odd 20 or 30 over when overtaking safely; I am talking about constant 30+ speeds in excess of the limit in built up/residential areas.

The sooner people get the message that this behaviour can and will kill, and those who participate in it will be properly punished, the better for us all, IMO.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by desGT

2 drivers had a race. 2 people were killed because of that. Sorry, but the GT driver WAS involved in the incident and deaths resulted. Definately tough, but certainly not undeserved.

Oh my god...Where's my violin and box of tissues.

I think we all agree the GT driver "may have" done wrong..and that street racing is for fools......but this sentence doesn't for the crime...it's way off the mark

[BIGJB]

AHHH the good old un-justice system working at it's best as usual. : :
How over the top is that sentence. See this is what every kay over is a killer
campaigns do. They corrupt peoples brains and turn em into complete idiots.
Worst case he should have been charged for dangerous driving.
Nothing more nothing less. The numbnut driving the Ferrari is resbonsible for his own actions.
Plan and simple.

[JC]

Originally Posted by geehaa

You should have stopped there, because that's all you got right...



I don't think he should not be punished - he should, he was street racing - but his actions didn't cause the deaths. The Ferrari driver went beyond his ability and that's what resulted in the deaths.

The issue here is that the "time" seems disproportionate to the "crime" of street racing.

But would the Ferrari have been racing had the GT driver not been there. If the answer to that is No, then who is co-responsible for the Ferrari driver driving the way he did....that's right, the GT driver.

[RG]

Originally Posted by JC

But would the Ferrari have been racing had the GT driver not been there. If the answer to that is No, then who is co-responsible for the Ferrari driver driving the way he did....that's right, the GT driver.

But what you have brought in there is reasonable doubt for the GT drivers argument. Who's to say the Ferrari driver wouldn't have driven the exact same?

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by JC

But would the Ferrari have been racing had the GT driver not been there. If the answer to that is No, then who is co-responsible for the Ferrari driver driving the way he did....that's right, the GT driver.

Probably not....happens too bloody often though....Hoons pulling up next to an FPV at the lights and wanting a go....99% of us just let them go...This bloke unfortunately took the bait and suffered a jail sentence....Normally its ricers or the VN Commo brigade...This time it happended to be a Ferrari.....We still can't rule out the Ferrari driver was trying to play Mr Cool with his 27 yo girlfriend in the car

[GT450]

You are right JC some people on this forum believe they have a god given right to indulge in this form of behaviour just because they have fast cars. Well as they keep saying when you mod your car you play you pay. Same goes here. Speed is not necessarily the killer it's where and when you speed that often brings your downfall. Do any of you really believe the passenger in the ferrari had any say in the outcome. He will appeal and probably get a lesser sentence but he deserves jail time.
GT450

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by JC

4 years is too little, IMO. Street racers in general should get that sentence, those where the result is someone dying should get the same as you would for manslaughter (say 15 years or so). It's not like people don't know that doing stupid speeds on public roads is dangerous - everyone knows it is, so those who decide to ignore that and do street racing need to be punished properly, and maybe our road toll will have a chance to reduce.

Now, I am not talking about speeding by say up to 10km/h on a fine day, or even the odd 20 or 30 over when overtaking safely; I am talking about constant 30+ speeds in excess of the limit in built up/residential areas.

The sooner people get the message that this behaviour can and will kill, and those who participate in it will be properly punished, the better for us all, IMO.

I tend to agree... BUT, there is no way that the driver of a vehicle should be responsible for the deaths of those in another, unless the driving of the first driver was a proximate cause.

As to whether the GT driver was an accessory. Highly doubtful. Maybe if the two drivers got together beforehand and "organised" the race, then an argument could be made that he was an accessory. However if they both took of at the lights and spontaneously decided to race, how does that make him an accessory?

Throw the book at the guy for street racing, sure. But I fail to see how he is responsible in any way for the deaths of the two in the other car.

[JC]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Probably not....happens too bloody often though....Hoons pulling up next to an FPV at the lights and wanting a go....99% of us just let them go...This bloke unfortunately took the bait and suffered a jail sentence....Normally its ricers or the VN Commo brigade...This time it happended to be a Ferrari.....We still can't rule out the Ferrari driver was trying to be Mr Cool with his 27 yo girlfriend in the car

True. But had the GT driver "taken the high road" (ie ignored the "race"), then he wouldn't have been held at fault, would he? The fact that he DID actually take on the Fezza means he did contribute in some way - even if was only in a mental way (ie egging the Fezza on).

Sorry, but after the tragedy of the recent bushfires, and seeing what humans can do to each other, even if the end result isn't always as expected, I have no sympathy for those that disregard the safety & value of life of others.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by GT450

You are right JC some people on this forum believe they have a god given right to indulge in this form of behaviour just because they have fast cars. .
GT450

Such as who ? I don't think anyone here is condoning street racing or excessive speed on public roads..What they don't understand is the inconsistencies with the judicial process insofar as sentencing is concerned

[JC]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

I tend to agree... BUT, there is no way that the driver of a vehicle should be responsible for the deaths of those in another, unless the driving of the first driver was a proximate cause..........................Throw the book at the guy for street racing, sure. But I fail to see how he is responsible in any way for the deaths of the two in the other car.

I agree with the first part, and it seems in this case the judge has deemed that he was part of the direct cause.....and I tend to agree.

At the end of the day, this is only my opinion, so I am happy for others to disagree. But people need to think about and be responsible for their actions - actions have consequences, or possible consequences....especially in relation to street racing (I mean, come one, how many daily news reports does it take to get the message through????).

Look, truth be told, I am no saint on the road, but I do NOT go street racing. Do I take off from the lights quick at times - yes, if I am at the head, but then I ought to to get traffic moving. I do NOT speed through school zones. I do NOT speed through 50 zones. I do NOT do skids/burnouts/whatever. I DO drive aggressively from time to time, but if people got out of the right hand lane when they shouldn't be there, I probably wouldn't flash them!

Now, would I be surprised if I got jail time for flashing high beams at someone? Yes. Would I be surprised if in doing that, they were actually temporarily blinded and put the car next to them into a tree killing someone? Probably not - I'd reckon I caused it by flashing the high beams, even though I didn't directly hit the car that hit the tree. This is just an example to show that cause and effect don't have to be physically connected.

Sorry about the long post(s).

[JC]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Such as who ? I don't think anyone here is condoning street racing or excessive speed on public roads..What they don't understand is the inconsistencies with the judicial process insofar as sentencing is concerned

Perhaps this is the first "inconsistency" that becomes the new consistent standard? I hope so.