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The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat |
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#31 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gisborne Victoria
Posts: 2,662
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Quote:
I think we could do with a couple of light carriers (Invincible size) to give CAP to the fleet as well as air support to Infantry in the battle field when they are operating in areas far from RAAF land bases. I think the Fleet Air Arm should get its teeth back. Not sure if the 2 proposed flat tops are capable of operating STOVL aircraft. |
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#32 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,699
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Quote:
What that's ridiculous. In these times the future can be unpredictable, technology is getting dangerously too advanced we need to keep up.
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EB II 1992 Fairmont - koni reds, wade 977b, 2.5inch/4480's and much more to come! |
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#33 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,198
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Whats happening with the F35 JSF?
Is it still behind schedule and not meeting expectations? Would it have been worth considering planes from other countries? |
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#34 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 121
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We were attacked in 2004 by 3 suicide boats actually - and that was a major unit in it was an attack on a frigate by the dhows 4 Americans killed and 9 wounded plus approx 13 terrorists deceased. 2001 - Aussie navy ships shelled the Al Faw peninsula - called it 5 inch friday Nah I dont think we have been involved in war-like situations ![]() Nuff said! ![]() |
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#35 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 121
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4V - this is just the stuff that makes each of the services hate each other. True we have to rely on the Army and RAAF IF they (whomever they may be) invade. Think about what the navy has been used for in battles past - we SUPPORT the other services as each of the services support us (yes I am still a serving member and a senior sailor with conflict experience!! I also have served in the Army so I am justified in both to comment on). I would suggest visiting the ADF Warfare Centes' website and have a look at what we actually do and the tactics/doctorine we use - not what the general public perceive us to be doing. Party line is we are but instruments in the serving governments policy - it isnt a democracy with serving in the ADF! Bring on the "discussion" Hooroo |
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#36 | ||||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Quote:
They have been recently trying to buy their way into our country and I fear that some day they will stop being nice to us and just come by force. Indonesia is also a worry. While I agree that more planes are good to have, in the event of an emergency neighbouring friendly countries can supply air support within a matter of hours, on the other hand naval support needs to be here and now. This debate has a lot of crystal ball gazing and even more 'what if's'.. From NineMSN news: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=808774 Quote:
Last edited by Yellow_Festiva; 02-05-2009 at 11:23 AM. |
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#37 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
Back on topic, as has been mentioned above, it would seem that the government (NOT Defence, just so we're clear on that) is finally waking up to the rise of China and the probable decline of the US over the next 30 years. There is going to be a significant power shift (in terms of economics and military strength) from the West to the East in this period. Having a sometimes belligerent Communist state with that sort of power in our region may not necessarily be a good thing (although some would argue the US has been little different over the past 10 years). This power shift is going to cause friction between the US and China as China seeks to exert it's growing power in the region, while the US seeks to contain it. This obviously has ramifications for us as we are smack bang in the region, and are dependent on both parties as trading partners. China is also dependent on our raw materials. This could be an issue in the future. This is why we need to be, in my view, a 'muscular regional power' so if the Commies tried anything funny, we could break an arm and give them a bloody nose and send them packing. I don't think we need an aircraft carrier though, and I believe the JSF/F35 purchase is flawed. We should never have gotten involved in it. But it's not all about China. There are other possible flashpoints in our region that we shouldn't ignore either. But the biggest problem facing Defence over the next decade isn't what ships or planes to get, or which country to ally ourselves with, it's recruitment and retention. All that fancy military hardware will be useless in a shooting war without people to operate it. |
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#38 | ||
Grinder+Welder = Race car
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Briz-Vegas
Posts: 3,937
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Being realistic, our airforce is massively outclassed by any of our potentially agressive neighbours - F111s and F/A-18s are really just expensive target practice.
But here's some comic relief. Navy Rules for Gun Fighting 1. Adopt an aggressive offshore posture. 2. Drink Coffee and eat donuts. Air Force Rules for Gun Fighting 1. Kiss the wife goodbye. 2. Drive to the base in your sports car. 3. Fly to target area, drop bombs, (try not to hit the Canuks) fly back to your home base. 4. BBQ some burgers and drink beer in your back yard, and talk about the Navy and Army.
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"No, it will never have enough power until I can spin the wheels at the end of the straightaway in high gear" - Too much power is never enough....Mark Donohue on the Can Am Porsche 917. |
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#39 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 121
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Quote:
The first sniff we get of raid inbound is EW and a single scan of an attacking aircrafts fire control radar and that is probably about 1-2 seconds. Then we may get a paint as they pop up to launch the missile and then the missile itself we may not see until it turns on its terminal course and paints the ship - at 10 miles a minute we dont have a lot of time... All well and good - we are off the coast sipping on our brews apparently :rolleyes: - choose your rate and choose your fate is all I can say- I chose Navy as I didnt want to carry my house on my back for my career...lol!! In defence of the RAAF - they are pretty good pilots and can mix it with the best. Red Flag in the US is testament to that with aussies factoring in a lot of the kills in the exercise - consider also the Kiwi pilots in our old A4 Skyhawks - they were impossible to hit and even harder to hold a track on with radar!! Mad men and women (their senior pilot instructor was a woman who ran a mockery of our best efforts to get a tote on her...brilliant to watch and with no terrain following radar on the A$, skimming the wavetops at 30-40 feet ASL!! If you are going to walk the walk..... :evil3: Hooroo |
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#40 | |||
Silhouette TS AWD
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ocean Reef, WA
Posts: 166
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#41 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
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Posts: 25,681
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Quote:
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-2011 XR6 Turbo Ute - Lux Pack - M6 -2022 Hyundai Tucson Highlander Diesel N Line |
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#42 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,343
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You blokes seem to know a hell of a lot more about the defence force than I do. Aside from that, I'm always happy to see money being spent on defence.
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#43 | ||
building the xe...
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: western sydney - home of the mullet
Posts: 2,473
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why cant they update the ageing army vehicles i work on everyday...
the macks and the unimogs from the early 80s, and the rovers.. apparently theyre the first thing getting changed over by 2012 or something i heard at work the other day... maybe they should throw the macks in for those MAN APCs... i had to tow a trailer yesterday that was dated from 1966...
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slowly but surely fixing up the king of the road WANTED P5 ltd/landau taillight centre panel |
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#44 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 277
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Quote:
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06 BF SR - Shockwave, JTG Liquid Injection duel fuel, K&N air filter, XR8 upper intake, F6 lower intake |
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#45 | ||||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
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If I had had a blank cheque back in the early 1980's when the ADF was going through the hoops with the Mirage replacement, I wouldnt have looked twice at the Hornet. I would have walked straight up to Grumman and said "give me 100 of them there F14's please". The combination of the F14's range, the AIM54 Phoenix missile and the F14's powerful combat system would have made it a brilliant choice for our wide open spaces. |
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#46 | ||||
Grinder+Welder = Race car
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Briz-Vegas
Posts: 3,937
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Quote:
Facing reality, our handfull of F111 and F/A-18s won't last 5 minutes against a numerically superior enemy equipped with much newer Russian equipment (Mig29/SU27etc). Wedgetail might make things a little better for us, but it's not far off trying to defend the Phillipines with P-40s... If you're putting a fighter within 8 miles of a warship, you're doing it wrong :P Quote:
As for F14 - maintaining up time in the damn things would have sent the RAAF broke.
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"No, it will never have enough power until I can spin the wheels at the end of the straightaway in high gear" - Too much power is never enough....Mark Donohue on the Can Am Porsche 917. |
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#47 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
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To the person who asked before if the new LHDs the navy is getting can support VTOL, im sure (thou not 100%) that they can.
VTOL F35 would be a nice lil addition to those. I find it interesting that atm we have ordered 78 F35's to replace the hornets, with the option of another 22 to replace the super hornets when there time is up. 22 F22's would be a much nicer replacement, after all the US secertry of defence has been quoted saying he dosnt have a problem with australia aquiring them, congress just have to change the law preventing there export ;) |
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#48 | ||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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CPOCSM what's your wish list?
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#49 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,523
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Quote:
Not being a military man, I don't understand why, other than (some very proud) history, we still have the 3 branches and don't just have one entity called the Australian Defence Force or whatever. They all seem to work in as they must. Another thought is as the F1-11 is so effective, but old, why don't we commission a modern version of the same? Lastly beefing up the ADF is a much better idea than another stimulus cabbage payment so every one can buy a new ipod. This is also a requirement as medium term the USA (Receivers and Managers Appointed) may not have the ability to run the big brother defence role we are used to it playing.
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Oooh baby living in Miami....
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#50 | ||
Gimme Shelter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 285
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http://www.australia.to/index.php?op...r&catid=70:war
Defence White Paper, should answer most questions. If there is any more doubts, ask the Dutch Army or U.S. Delta Force for references. Relax, we're doing ok. |
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#51 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Incidentally the above mentioned country has since reversed that decision, bought a fleet of current generation tanks and is using them on operations right now. Ask any infantryman if he'd rather go into a fire fight with or without tank support and I can be confident his answer will be "give me the tanks"! As for the wisdom of the Abrahms purchase, I think it was a good decision and, yes, we should be using them in Afghanistan right now. Some may argue that Leopard 2 is better, possibly, but the difference is marginal where as the price difference was not. As for the white paper and proposed Navy build up, I think it's ambitious and likely to be unachievable in dollar and manning terms. I also question the logic of building a Navy while our Army continues to bare the greatest burden. I agree there needs to be balance and consideration of longer term strategic aims but on the whole I believe that Army should be Priority 1. My 20c worth regards Manix
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Seduce Territory Turbo, 7 seat, Body Kit, Side Steps, iPod Adaptor and Mats + 20" G-Max Aspire wheels, F6 CAI and De-bunged...And to come...SZ TS TDCi AWD! Cool White Ranger 4x2 Crew Cab 3.0l TDi, Tray liner...and maybe one day....T6 Ranger XLT |
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#52 | ||
Once PHASED.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Townsville
Posts: 972
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Just a matter of interest, australia will NOT use DU shells in our M1 tanks. We will be using HM114HVAP ammo..
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2006 BF XR8 Bionic. |
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#53 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 121
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Quote:
Personally I would have liked the F-22 raptor however the US hasn't signed off on the bi-lateral agreement in which we can share in the technology associated with the F-22 - in short the yanks will not sell it to anyone without Congress' blessing - apparently we aren't blessed!! The destroyers we are getting are ok but I do agree with theAbrahms - they are a good choice. As for DU ammo - we have not used it since 1992with the last weapon in the navy to use it being the 20mm CIWS Phalanx system for AAW (anti air warfare for those who no abla...) - however we still have to clean up the discarded sabot from the flight deck (on the FFG's anyhow!!). The rounds now use tungsten and/or cobalt in the projectiles so still pretty lethal. Not an exhaustibe list so will add some more when I think of it. Hooroo |
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#54 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Vic
Posts: 421
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Quote:
I just can't see how Australia can defend itself - no matter how much we spend. With a population of ~20mil, even if every single able-bodied person were to enlist, we couldn't defend such a massive area from a sustained attack. Maybe I'm missing something and someone more knowledgeable can enlighten me. |
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#55 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,082
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Quote:
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#56 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Yes, we know now that F14's were maintenance whores by today's standards, but back then...we didn't.
Whilst it would be great to see F22's in Aussie service, I doubt the US Congress would approve such a sale. Because if we get them, then the Japanese would want them. Then the South Koreans, and then Israel. With all those end-users of such a sensitive piece of equipment, some secret tech is bound to end up in the wrong hands. Yes Israel, I'm looking at you. Oh and while the proposed LHD's may be able to support STOVL aircraft like the STOVL F35, the variant that we are getting is not the STOVL version. Personally I would have liked to have seen a Eurofighter in RAAF colours... Quote:
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#57 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Barellan Point
Posts: 571
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Road warrior, i believe the terrain in which the fighting is being done is mountainous where a MBT isnt required, look what happened to Russia when it had mechanised divisions is A-Stan ;)
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#58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Barellan Point
Posts: 571
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Not to start the navy v air force v army arguement.
In WWII Great Britian had the largest Navy, Yet only exists today because of fighter command ;) I also would like to see the eurofighter optioned. |
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#59 | ||
Bear with a sore head
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 3,701
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At least all this defence spending will boost the SA economy and employment prospects slightly...
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#60 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 121
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Quote:
The decks will be rated to VTOL to be able to support other navy/air forces aircraft - the steel is the same as what the Nimitz although not quite as thick. HR30 is its designation I think. It is the same stuff we build our hulls out of. Hooroo |
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