Left is right, right is wrong and roundabouts spin backwards (hypothetical oh no :))

[Unco]

i'd rather drive my LTD or F100 from sydney to melbourne in the rain, than a new Hyundai Getz.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Unco

i'd rather drive my LTD or F100 from sydney to melbourne in the rain, than a new Hyundai Getz.

The one in your avatar? In that the 1965 or 1966 model?????

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by flappist

Until it rains or you have to stop in a hurry or on an uneven surface or on a corner or you hit something solid (the car will survive so it can be sold to pay for your funeral or intensive care).........
?

You are really unbelievable, how about apologising to the forum for providing serious misinformation regarding changing to left hand drive in Somoa, rather than making a lame justification for disputing my statement.

while we are on that, Sixties cars are unsafe?, They are not unsafe, just not as safe as today's vehicles which is not in dispute. No, with a set of radials on them(which most I see have) they present no special hazard and can be driven safely and sensibly in traffic and/or freeways today.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by torbirdie

You are really unbelievable, how about apologising to the forum for providing serious misinformation regarding changing to left hand drive in Somoa, rather than making a lame justification for disputing my statement.

while we are on that, Sixties cars are unsafe?, They are not unsafe, just not as safe as today's vehicles which is not in dispute. No, with a set of radials on them(which most I see have) they present no special hazard and can be driven safely and sensibly in traffic and/or freeways today.

So Samoa did not recently change sides of the road?
Sweden did not do likewise in 1967?
It would be a bit difficult for Australia to change TO right hand drive in that we already are?

60's cars did not have power steering, power assisted brakes, antilock braking systems, inertia reel seatbelts, crumple zones, collapsable steering columns, airbags, laminated windscreens and were fitted with very basic suspension.

This is a hypothetical which means it is not real, I just made it up. It is designed to engender discussion about an idea and only morons would think that it is an actual event.

For someone who has been here for such a short time you seem to have aquired several warnings and a very low reputation. You seem aggressively at odds with everyone on every subject.

Such attitude and behavior tends to reduce longevity. I am sure you will be missed.....

[Falc'man]

We can't get people to drive correctly as it is, so would you want to cause chaos and mayhem by throwing a left handed spanner in the works?

[Unco]

Originally Posted by flappist

The one in your avatar? In that the 1965 or 1966 model?????

Originally Posted by flappist

I too got my license in the mid 70s and drove the best part of 1,000,000 kilometres in the subsequent 10 or so years in 60s, 70s and early 80s cars.

They belong in museums and collections to be loved and caringly driven on special occasions or weekends in good weather

you really gotta keep up with the stuff you write.

don't get me wrong, i like the stuff you write, but sometimes you get sidetracked. and i must agree with torbirdie, the hypothetical became a bit of a joke to those of us who actually paid attention to the news around the world at the time.

either way, i myself digress. the question is valid RE: left hand traffic or right hand traffic.

i voted "Don't care".

i am not afraid of change. practice is everything. sure, things would be chaotic in the beginning but that's to be expected.

one positive would be that US imports should be easier to register in QLD without a LHD to RHD conversion (mmmmm.... F250 methinks).

[pottery beige]

No way... Makes my head hurt... :

[vanman_75]

how the rest off the country would cope i dont know, but as an operator of mining equipment all dump trucks are drivin from the left and you honestly dont notice that part of the change . the worst part would definately be the the major cost of restucturing such a large country in the way of road works . so my thinking is it doesnt bother me at all but it wont happen in my life time all the nice cars would be a big bonus though !!!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Unco

you really gotta keep up with the stuff you write.

don't get me wrong, i like the stuff you write, but sometimes you get sidetracked. and i must agree with torbirdie, the hypothetical became a bit of a joke to those of us who actually paid attention to the news around the world at the time.

either way, i myself digress. the question is valid RE: left hand traffic or right hand traffic.

i voted "Don't care".

i am not afraid of change. practice is everything. sure, things would be chaotic in the beginning but that's to be expected.

one positive would be that US imports should be easier to register in QLD without a LHD to RHD conversion (mmmmm.... F250 methinks).

It was a reply to the post about 60s cars. Did you read that bit?

And although you would rather drive your 70s LTD than a new Getz, would you drive a 70s Isuzu Bellett or Colt which are a closer equivalent?

Or would you feel your family would be safer in a BF LTD than your one on an overcrowded highway in the rain?

This is getting off topic, lets go back to the right side of the road.....

[mrbaxr6t]

two words - **** NO!

OK

I know it opens up markets, but it is my belief that cars can be built that can be swapped easily from left to right hand drive variants, I have seen f series trucks with two power steer boxes and no pitman arm? is that the one, apparently its cheaper to remove the pitman from the other side and fit an aussie power steer box than to clutz around removing the power steer box off of an already built car, I live in hope that automakers will wake up smell the world market and make cars that can be "regionned" with a mirrored dash and twin shaft inputs to the racks, with the unused side plugged

I can be hypothetical too thats the game we playing here

if anybody can figure out how to build such a car I believe us Australians can

[arby]

Can't be done - think of all the maccas drive throughs that would need to be changed.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by flappist

So Samoa did not recently change sides of the road?
Sweden did not do likewise in 1967?
....

LOL, do you really think you are fooling anyone?

Originally Posted by flappist

60's cars did not have power steering, power assisted brakes, antilock braking systems, inertia reel seatbelts, crumple zones, collapsable steering columns, airbags, laminated windscreens and were fitted with very basic suspension.
...

No-one, certainly not me is going to argue there have been many worthwhile advances in car design, it still doesnt make the cars of 40 years ago dangerous. As is true today, its still the accessory behind the steering wheel which has the highest bearing on one's safety.
Perhaps also do check your facts, dont know about inertia reel seatbelts(which by the way are hardly a safety feature--just covenience) , certainly not airbags, but the rest of your list above was certainly available in 1969.

[jakkes]

i voted no not cause is to hard but cause i like the way we have it now. i like having the clutch pedal and stick on the left side of me and shifting the gears in towards my self. having a pedal on the left and the stick on the right and pushing the gear stick away from your self doesn't feel natural to me.
as far as car set-up goes i think the way we have it is better but that's me.

[Airmon]

See what happens when you try to stimulate thought and discussion Flappist? Your opening posts are too long and detailed, people get bored half way through and instead start arguing about the last sentence they remember reading.

Flappist got the Samoan swap over back to front, big deal! Its still a Hypothetical, nobody was harmed in the mixup and a formal apology to the people of Samoa by Flappist will be sent by his PR department shortly.


I would vote against. Simply because I'm stubborn and I like driving on the left :P
While I would love a new Shelby right out of a dealer down the road, and I'm not a fan of most Japanese sports cars, I think it would be too difficult for such a large driving population to get used to.
I could see insurance premiums increasing along with tax to pay for all the new improvements.

All we seem to miss out on being RHD is American cars. Most European cars are made to be sold in the UK and Aus being a by product of that allows us access to a huge variety of RHD Euro cars, aswell as we get preferred choice of Japanese models (not the often watered down US ones), and even Chinease manufacturers are coming to the party.

In the absence of big US Cars we get some imports (F trucks), and it allows for our own industry to cater for that segment. If we were RHD I would imagine both GM and Ford electing to drop Falcon and Commodores in favour of US Models.
Or the opposite could happen where the US Drop their models in favour of Falcon and Commodore.

But hey, I'm no expert, thats just my Hypothetical opinion!! :Reverend:

[Yellow_Festiva]

I have driven in Europe on the 'wrong' side of the road. Couldn't go over 60 or 70... just didn't feel right.

And peering up at the review mirror, which is now the top of the A pillar was also annoying.

I voted to leave things as is, the change may be too hard, but the costs involved will be astronomical.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by torbirdie

LOL, do you really think you are fooling anyone?

No-one, certainly not me is going to argue there have been many worthwhile advances in car design, it still doesnt make the cars of 40 years ago dangerous.

Wrong, every new car that hits the streets makes just about every other car a little less safe. The older the car, the less safe it gets - for the most part, the exceptions are some of the Euros which don't get as dangerous as quickly.

Originally Posted by torbirdie

Perhaps also do check your facts, dont know about inertia reel seatbelts(which by the way are hardly a safety feature--just covenience) ,

You're kidding right? How about the fact that passengers basically always have a properly adjusted lap/sash belt on? How about the little details like the explosive charge that pulls them down hard on impact?

Originally Posted by torbirdie

certainly not airbags, but the rest of your list above was certainly available in 1969.

Come on bud, find me a car in 1969 that had ABS, Macpherson Struts, retractable seatbelts, *real* crumple zones etc that Joe Average could buy - or atleast find one that cost less than a house.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Wrong, every new car that hits the streets makes just about every other car a little less safe. The older the car, the less safe it gets - .

Putting safer cars on the road suddenly makes it more likely we will crash in an older car? I will gladly retract my comments if you can show any data that suggests that the an older car's absolute risk of being involved in an accident increases with safer vehicles around it.

Originally Posted by GTP006

.
You're kidding right? How about the fact that passengers basically always have a properly adjusted lap/sash belt on? How about the little details like the explosive charge that pulls them down hard on impact?
.

As I said, inertia reel belts just represent a convenience factor, they are actually less effective than a properly adjusted fixed belt. You obviously are confusing the difference between inertia reel belts and what was later introduced as belts that retracted on impact, an understandable misunderstanding since inertia reel belts retract when you let them go.

Originally Posted by Airmon

See what happens when you try to stimulate thought and discussion Flappist?

While you can wax lyrical about it being a intellectual hypothetical discussion instituted by an intellectual like Flappist, it was clearly anything but:

Originally Posted by flappist

After reading about the recent switch from Right Hand Drive to Left Hand Drive in Samoa and other countries e.g Sweden in 1967 I was wondering what effect doing this would have is Australia. So on the 1st of April 2010 Comrade Kev has decreed that we will swap sides of the road and all new cars will be left hand drive including Falcons and Commodores.

As you can see from his opening remarks, the discussion was based on that Australia may have to join the host of other countries that have converted from rhd to lhd and was also tainted with the connotations that this would be a communist progression led by our communist leader.

Clearly just someone with a political agenda. Trying to stick a boot in and make up a scenario of what would happen to our precious cars if we were stupid enough to let Rudd stay in charge

Originally Posted by Airmon

Flappist got the Samoan swap over back to front, big deal!

While I doubt it was an intentional misrepresentation, his failure to apologise and then just try and argue any other point(safety of 40 year old cars) to "smokescreen" the fact is abhorrent. If he had said sorry folks, "got my wires crossed", we could have all moved on.

[DJM83]

Keep it on topic or thread go bye bye

[4Vman]

Far out.. some people go off like a frog in a sock on a tangent.. the original intent has allot of merit, as far as implications for classic musclecars go well i think that's covered already in the "sunny weekender" clause, which is where 99% of them are used without issue.
I couldn't imagine driving the XB or XY everyday... it would have been too uncomfortable and too damn stressful and involving!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Far out.. some people go off like a frog in a sock on a tangent.. the original intent has allot of merit, as far as implications for classic musclecars go well i think that's covered already in the "sunny weekender" clause, which is where 99% of them are used without issue.
I couldn't imagine driving the XB or XY everyday... it would have been too uncomfortable and too damn stressful and involving!

At least my modern muscle, wont be as hard to drive on the wrong side of the road Norm .
But as has been posted some people have hard enough time driving on the correct side and obeying road rules let alone changing to the other side, will take some people the rest of their lives to learn the switch like it has taken them the first half of their lives to learn to drive in current conditions.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by torbirdie

Putting safer cars on the road suddenly makes it more likely we will crash in an older car? I will gladly retract my comments if you can show any data that suggests that the an older car's absolute risk of being involved in an accident increases with safer vehicles around it.




As I said, inertia reel belts just represent a convenience factor, they are actually less effective than a properly adjusted fixed belt. You obviously are confusing the difference between inertia reel belts and what was later introduced as belts that retracted on impact, an understandable misunderstanding since inertia reel belts retract when you let them go.

While you can wax lyrical about it being a intellectual hypothetical discussion instituted by an intellectual like Flappist, it was clearly anything but:



As you can see from his opening remarks, the discussion was based on that Australia may have to join the host of other countries that have converted from rhd to lhd and was also tainted with the connotations that this would be a communist progression led by our communist leader.

Clearly just someone with a political agenda. Trying to stick a boot in and make up a scenario of what would happen to our precious cars if we were stupid enough to let Rudd stay in charge




While I doubt it was an intentional misrepresentation, his failure to apologise and then just try and argue any other point(safety of 40 year old cars) to "smokescreen" the fact is abhorrent. If he had said sorry folks, "got my wires crossed", we could have all moved on.

Nice, another thread ruined and destined to be locked. Thanks for that.

Trying to keep on topic, not sure if it is a good idea. It would most likely spell the end of our local manufacturing. The huge number of cars already produced overseas in LHD mean the economies of scale just won't work here once cheaper LHD models appear.

Though cheaper cars, and a greater selection, is a good thing. Mmm, 5.0L coyote powered mustang for less than an arm and a leg? Yes please!

[mrbaxr6t]

torbidie you irritate me more than 4vman, flappist this is a brilliant idea to discuss something like this.

I was under the impression that roundabouts do not exist in countries that are on the other side of the road?

if so good luck upgrading all the intersections to something other than roundabouts (traffic lights perhaps)

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

torbidie you irritate me more than 4vman, flappist this is a brilliant idea to discuss something like this.

I was under the impression that roundabouts do not exist in countries that are on the other side of the road?

if so good luck upgrading all the intersections to something other than roundabouts (traffic lights perhaps)

Nah, they do exist. I was in New Caledonia a couple of years ago, they drive on the other side of the road there too. They had roundabouts there. Dad got confused, looked the wrong way, then pulled in fron of an F-250. We were in a Renault Twingo, similar to a Yaris. Luckily managed to avoid an accident.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I was under the impression that roundabouts do not exist in countries that are on the other side of the road?

Got them in this town too. They are not as common in America. They have 4-way stops too.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Keep it on topic or thread go bye bye

For those wanting to entertain the hypothetical and actually relate it to real/correct events of the past,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_...t-hand_traffic

would make a great starting point. Though I must admit, the lht versus lhd terminology makes for regular confusion.

Some points I found interesting(despite it being forty year old research):

Research in 1969 by J. J. Leeming showed countries driving on the left have a lower collision rate than countries driving on the right. It has been suggested this is partly because humans are more commonly right-eye dominant than left-eye dominant.[21][22][23] In left-hand traffic, the predominantly better-performing right eye is used to monitor oncoming traffic and the driver's wing mirror. In right-hand traffic, oncoming traffic and the driver's wing mirror are handled by the predominantly weaker left eye. In addition, it has been argued that left sided driving is safer for elderly people given the likelihood of them having visual attention deficits on the left side and the need at intersections to watch out for vehicles approaching on the near-side lane.[24]

Cyclists and horse riders[25] typically mount from the left hand side. This places them on the safer kerb side when driving on the left and on the more dangerous traffic side when driving on the right.[citation

Also Sweden is interesting, they were lht until 1967, despite most vehicles being lhd, obviously no regs restricting lhd.

Both RHD and LHD vehicles may generally be registered in any European Union member state, but there are some restrictions and regulations. Slovakia, despite being a member of the European Union, does not allow the local registration of RHD vehicles,[31] even if the vehicle is imported from one of the four EU countries that drive on the left (UK, Ireland, Cyprus, and Malta). Lithuania has prohibited new RHD vehicle registration since 1993.

[torbirdie]

I don’t think I would be a good candidate for swapping sides.

I spend at least one month a year in North America and even as a passenger in vehicles Id get disorientated at intersections about where to turn and keeping to the right side of the road when turning, especially when the road has multiple lanes. So far Ive avoided having to drive there, possibly it might be easier to cope with visually if sitting in the driver's seat, but even crossing the road there as a pedestrian takes all my concentration.

The other embarrassing thing was as a passenger travelling in the front seat, Id always be going to the left door of the vehicle, making the driver think I was wanting to drive!

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by flappist

The change ove is 1/4/2010 with the final phase out 1/4/2030 and all the signs/exits/whatever are sorted by little green pixies...

Can't believe no-one has mentioned this little titbit before.....
Well done....although on a serious note a country this size would be impossible to implement.

[Gum6y]

Have been in the US for 2 months now driving about 2-3 hours a day. I can honestly say its now pretty much second nature. Was difficult at first ( I have driven in Europe b4) but the roads are wide and clearly marked like ours.

I've driven from Miami to Washington DC. No problems I even beep at other motorists who are doing the wrong thing.

Coming in line with the majority is a good thing with the cars. Saves $$$ and look at the market to choose from. Dodge Challenger for me.

Don't think it will ever happen how would the logistics work?

I voted yes.

Currently driving a Dodge Charger, not overly impressed.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Gum6y

Currently driving a Dodge Charger, not overly impressed.

They drive alright, the 3.5L V6 has plenty of power, the outside looks ok.. the interior is just bland! Same with the Challenger. Not the worst car you could be driving though.

[Gum6y]

The Dodge is definitely built to a price. I like the designs but you are right the interior is very simple. The handle is nothing great but the engines in different models are appealing.

Now I drove a Ford Focus for 6 weeks and that handled much better however the biggest downfall was the turning circle was like a bus. Totally unacceptable.

The price of cars over here tho is very appealing.