Church Of Climatology

[Walt Kowalski]

Please refrain from making jokes or smileys in this thread.

I repeat this thread is NOT about politics despite what you might think from a cursory glance

You are about to lose your democracy FOREVER

The Australian constuitution is about to be made redundant and people here are making smiley faces in their posts.

Think people

I would sooner work on my car and make jokes too but IT IS NOT A JOKE

If you are too lazy or too stupid to do proper research then at least read my signature and follow the links for a small inkling of what's actually happening to your beautiful country if our beloved Prime Minister signs in Copenhagen next week.

He is on the plane now to see Barrack Hussein Obama.

What do you think they are about to talk about?

Climatgate exploded in the US earlier this week.

The fraudulent science has been exposed

Only if we rise up and tell our local politicians that they are finished if they do this can we overcome

RING PARLIAMENT HOUSE today 02 6277 7111 AND ASK FOR YOUR LOCAL MEMBER

Tomorrow will be too late. The ETS bill will be done and dusted. Next stop Copenhagen.

Then it's goodnight Australia

[BA GT-HO]

Walt, King Nothing and others, I tip my hat to you.

I commend you on taking the time to understand an issue that the majority of society has little to no idea actually exists. I too share your views and I have been doing a lot of reading of the Local Rag and various sites on the internet. Andrew Bolt's articles on the subject have been excellent. Yet the majority of Letters to the Editor in the Local Rag are people calling him an alarmist and fraud. I feel like banging my head against a wall.

I think the worst part about it is the way that the Liberals (well actually should I say Turnbull) have handled it. From what I understand he really only just won the required numbers for support from his party via 'creative accounting.'

I just cannot believe that a decision like this was not debated for months and months on end in parliment and the media. How did this just slip under the radar? How can we be lumped with such a financial burden due to something that is based on speculation and research that is not entirely from a neutral viewpoint?

It annoys me that there are so many people out there that don't follow what is going on in the world and thier own backyard. Sometimes I wonder if people should have the choice to vote rather than have a large percentage of uninformed voters who don't really care and vote because they have to.

[Raptor]

Or you could see this as a trend that been occuring ever since man climbed down from the trees and is continuing today, with the next major step due.

As populations grew and pressure and competition for limited resources became more intense the individual gave up some freedoms to join a tribe, which proved to be a more successful model.

In time there were several tribes and again the competition for limited resources grew. For a time the tribes competed or waged battles but this eventually succumbed to trading and co-operation, then tribes merged into villages, probably giving up some of their previous freedoms and customs but benefiting from a more structured and organised society. This too proved to be a more successful model.

And so on, following a similar them....

Villages became Counties.

Counties became States.

States united to become Nations.

Most recently some Nations have merged or co-operated to form 'Unions'

Perhaps the concept of a Nation being the optimal model has had it's day.

Perhaps to facilitate a change we need a global currency. Lets call this carbon, which has the same value everywhere and whose generation (or release) can be reasonable aligned to the current split of the affluent and the poorer. Trading carbon can facilitate the change and a shift of wealth just as the concept of money or currency assisted in the early tranistion from bartering to what we know as a modern financial economy.

No doubt there were those that argued passionately for the status-quo to be maintained as each of the above regimes changed as well while others could see opportunities and promoted the transition.

Just some food for thought....

[Mr Hardware]

Tony Abbott is our saviour, he's the man who's willing to put his job on the line for the sake of Australia's future.

Read more here:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...26-421,00.html

[Hardtopxb]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Please refrain from making jokes or smileys in this thread.

I repeat this thread is NOT about politics despite what you might think from a cursory glance

You are about to lose your democracy FOREVER

The Australian constuitution is about to be made redundant and people here are making smiley faces in their posts.

Think people

I would sooner work on my car and make jokes too but IT IS NOT A JOKE

If you are too lazy or too stupid to do proper research then at least read my signature and follow the links for a small inkling of what's actually happening to your beautiful country if our beloved Prime Minister signs in Copenhagen next week.

He is on the plane now to see Barrack Hussein Obama.

What do you think they are about to talk about?

Climatgate exploded in the US earlier this week.

The fraudulent science has been exposed

Only if we rise up and tell our local politicians that they are finished if they do this can we overcome

RING PARLIAMENT HOUSE today 02 6277 7111 AND ASK FOR YOUR LOCAL MEMBER

Tomorrow will be too late. The ETS bill will be done and dusted. Next stop Copenhagen.

Then it's goodnight Australia

Blo0dy Hell!!! I actually had a thorough look at this treaty.. This is the first time I have actually understood what the Copanhagen Treaty stands for..A Communist Dictatorship(World Government).It will, if signed by our Government,Be able to, Override our constitution,Influence our economy,Dictate who we have to give vast amounts of our money to,What fuel we use,What cars we drive. The list goes on and on.I am going to contact my member of parliament(Labor) and get stuck into him..This has vast reaching(insedious) consequences to the future of all countries.. Get off your ***** and do something, Ie, contact your member of parliament...Blo0dy Hell...

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Tony Abbott is our saviour, he's the man who's willing to put his job on the line for the sake of Australia's future.

If the Lib's don't keep the deal struck by their current leader they risk a double dissolution election.

[MO]

@Walt,I'm subscribed,Thanks to the MODs for allowing this to continue. Please everyone as Falcon Coupe said..'keep it mature and sensible'....
I have long wondered ,about 20+yrs, how this one world government was going to happen,it has been talked about for at least that long that I am aware of.
Never would I have imagined that they would use a green genie as the catalsyt. So for now I will watch with great interest what evolves here and on occaision will hopefully have some input.

[King Nothing]

Some very serious accusations are now being levelled at the New Zealand National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research (NIWA), NZ's answer to the British CRU. Apparently that have adjusted pre-1950 temperature data downwards to make increases more significant.

http://nzclimatescience.net/images/P...arming_nz2.pdf

The first graph is what the NIWA have presented to the governemnt as proof of global warming, and the NZ government's centerpiece on why they need an ETS.

The second graph is the unadjusted temperature records. Note that there really isn't any significant change.

The table is the adjustments applied to the stations. Most have been increased significantly.

The last is the above table shown as a column graph.

There may well be a good explanation for the changes. But one has not yet been offered. These are thermometer measurements, and I cant see how thermometer technology has changed so much in the last 100 years that it requires this level of adjustment.

Is this whole thing about to unravel?

[russellw]

I realise it is hard but can we keep this discussion to the subject of the ETS rather than getting in to political debate about our Government. I'd rather let this keep going as it is an important issue but don't want to spend my life editing it.

Cheers
Russ

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm guessing you can whinge and complain to your local member of parliment, but they'll just ignore you. Why bother?

[MO]

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

I'm guessing you can whinge and complain to your local member of parliment, but they'll just ignore you. Why bother?

Now its that attitude that lets them get away with what they do. If you want something done then you must speak up your local member can't ignore you he wants his/her job. Remember voting. What is even better is put it in writing then you will have a paper trail.
Do nothing and you only have yourself to blame for things happening that affect your wallet and lifestyle.

[XRQTR]

Just heard on the radio this minute Joe Hockey is starting to distance himself from the ETS, he's asking for members views on it all.

The fuse is lit. :

[divine_afg]

Why don't we start a Petition then send it to Our Prime Minister.
The question I want answered by our "Representatives" is " Whats in it for me " ?
I'm really concerned that this issue was not debated on and we weren't asked for Our opinions.
When it comes to voting then its Obligatory.

[vik351]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Walt, King Nothing and others, I tip my hat to you.

I commend you on taking the time to understand an issue that the majority of society has little to no idea actually exists. I too share your views and I have been doing a lot of reading of the Local Rag and various sites on the internet. Andrew Bolt's articles on the subject have been excellent. Yet the majority of Letters to the Editor in the Local Rag are people calling him an alarmist and fraud. I feel like banging my head against a wall.

I think the worst part about it is the way that the Liberals (well actually should I say Turnbull) have handled it. From what I understand he really only just won the required numbers for support from his party via 'creative accounting.'

I just cannot believe that a decision like this was not debated for months and months on end in parliment and the media. How did this just slip under the radar? How can we be lumped with such a financial burden due to something that is based on speculation and research that is not entirely from a neutral viewpoint?

It annoys me that there are so many people out there that don't follow what is going on in the world and thier own backyard. Sometimes I wonder if people should have the choice to vote rather than have a large percentage of uninformed voters who don't really care and vote because they have to.

Looks like you got a good head on those shoulders son...

vik... What he said... !!!

[ST]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

alas . all is ok , i'm saving the world from my house, we now have 3 council bins , we can seperate the plastics, the paper and the bio house waste . every little bit helps , i have planted 3 trees in the backyard, and now we shop at ING instead of woollies, we have purchased and are fitting 1/2 flush toilets, and have converted to green electricity, if most australians done this , i'm sure the temperature would probably stabalise a little around the globe and sea levels would stop rising , it's quite easy really . and worth an extra 50 bucks a week in my opinion if we can save the planet.

I seriously hope you are joking about the part in bold, you would be EXTREMELY gullible otherwise.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by divine_afg

The question I want answered by our "Representatives" is " Whats in it for me " ?
I'm really concerned that this issue was not debated on and we weren't asked for Our opinions.
.

I think the most important question is "How does this actually help the environemt if that's what you're trying to do??" this is the most important question.

Not one person has been able to answer this and it's been asked many times in many interviews and yet they all avoid answering it.

That's what I'd like answered.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by ST

I seriously hope you are joking about the part in bold, you would be EXTREMELY gullible otherwise.

He's 100% on the ball, there was a doco on the other night about a Nordic island that has forgotten all about the global problem and started to work on the local issue.

Think global work local, if you're too worried about what's going on everywhere else wehn will ever get to worry about what's going on in your own back yard.

Oh and this island is now being used as a model by some institutes to show what can be done, they forgot that they are the same ones asking for everyone to sign treaties for a global solution, contradict much??

[Charliewool]

In response to a petition I signed last week......

Dear Supporter

Thank you for your support in signing my petition against the now abandoned Copenhagen Climate Treaty. It was your strong voice that made the scrapping of this treaty possible.

However, we can not stop there.

The Liberal Party this week decided by the narrowest of margins to support Kevin Rudd’s Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme (CPRS). Despite this, I remain strongly opposed to any form of emissions trading scheme in Australia.

I am committed to stopping Labor’s Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) because I know that it will hurt Australian families, damage industry, cut jobs and endanger the future prosperity of our great nation.

If this ETS is enacted, it will be almost impossible to undo the damage it will have done.

It is for this reason that I ask you to contact the Liberal Senators in your state that are planning to vote in favour of this legislation. As their constituents, you have both the right and the responsibility to contact them and ask them to vote against the CPRS.

We have made a difference once already. I honestly believe that we can do it again.

Please contact your local Liberal Senators and encourage them to vote against the ETS. You can find their contact details at http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/senator...asp?sort=party

Together, we can and we will make a difference. We must stop this legislation.

With thanks for your ongoing support.

Cory Bernardi
Liberal Senator for South Australia

122 Port Road
HINDMARSH SA 5007
Tel: 08 8346 1433
Fax: 08 8346 5699
Email: senator.bernardi@aph.gov.au

[snappy]

Got the same email charliewool

[Falcon Coupe]

I recieved this email too, good to see the voices being listened to.

[MRFGXR6]

Well what can I say but this has been a long time in the making. Way back when we have had the Ozone layer scare many parties convinced the government, the media plus various other entities that CO2 emissions were being released into the atmosphere thus causing the hole in the ozone to increase. This Lie was pushed all over the world on every TV, every radio and every newspaper and any other publication conceived. And why may you ask? Simply because if you tell a person long enough then they will most likely believe this lie. It’s a sort of brain washing if you will. We all as a race go through this from berth till we die. It sets up our social and moral fibre as handed down from generation to generation and we are led to believe the words of scientists and politicians. Well due to this lie with the ozone many parties with invested interest made allot of money. How may you ask, simply for the face that every aerosol can, every fridge, freezer, air-conditioned etc, had to be re-gassed and made to pass the new standards. This the scientists staed would make the hole decrease and save the world blaa blaa blaa, and as good little citizens we believed them. Now not long after this lie, published in the Sydney morning Herald was a little article half way through in very small and insignificant writing stating and I still have this article: the hole in the ozone layer is the smallest it has ever been in 50 years. Not bad considering only months before we were all doomed because this growing hole would let in all the suns rays and we will ALL die. This is rubbish and still is.
Now here we go again. We have been through the WDM saga, the Insurgent saga, Binlarden saga, Oil saga in a war we did not need or want and now I chuckled when I first heard this the “global warming and climate change “ saga. Yet another lie, as we are now just finding out. The only result in this will be once again parties with invested interest will make ludicrous amounts of money, much more than ever before. Sadly these parties are the one world socialist order as described by Lord Mockton (http://2gb.com/index2.php?option=com...k=view&id=5149) regarding the Copenhagen Climate Treaty, a treaty in which only benefits this one word order and their sheer greed. This treaty as with carbon trading will put the payment required big companies inevitably back onto us the consumer as tax increases, allot of companies will most likely close down due to this carbon trading and outsource overseas to countries that are in better position to pay or are exempt from this lie.
As a result of global warming and its lies and that of this preposterous” Copenhagen Climate Treaty” we will loose our rights in the constitution. As stated this world order will be able to dictate what fuel we can use in our cars, haw many cars we can have but worst of all what car we can drive. Imagine no FORD, Holden, chev, Oldsmobile, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc etc. Only cars dictated to us to use by a socialist one word order. If they get their way we will all be globally driving electric car, and possibly the same car. I don’t know about you but this leaves a disgusting taste in my mouth as I like my Ford, as others like their Holdens etc, that is what makes who we are and what we are.
Now if Kevin Rudd signs this stupid document the he should and all others involved be shot for Treason to this beloved country of ours. He is by default via signing this treaty taking away all our constitutional rights and doing so without our consent. Why hasn’t this been released to the public and more importantly why haven’t we the public have a vote on this. Why because as with all these lies it only is intended to benefit those with invested interests.

[Cobra]

"The issue is not difficult. Global Warming is a myth perpetuated by self righteous left wing ideologues intent on wealth redistribution. Even if AGW was real, and it certainly isn't, the ETS will do absolutely ZERO in resolving the "problem". The ETS is the single most comprehensive change to our tax system and Australia has not had the chance, as is our right, to debate it."

This was a wall post I found on Joe Hockeys facebook page which I think sums up the whole situation perfectly.

[olfella]

I think MRFGXRS is on the money - and that is ultimately what all of this is about. I suspect lurking behind the scenes would be found the World Bank promoting companies like Dupont (Gas and chemical products), Monsanto (genetic engineered seed for crops). Like Woolies and Coles, once they have us in the christmas grip, they can do (and charge) what they want. But then again, some have called me a cynical old bastard....

[olfella]

And why is Australia the only country to attend with prepared to sign and legislation in place? I believe China and USA are only going for a looksee.

[MRFGXR6]

Your spot on there olfella, this runs deeper than many have even conceived as a rational moral thought with this matter. And I think a lot of the companies you have listed and many more have a finger in this particular pie.

[rodderz]

I got the email too, but I still can't find out more about this section where it says
"the now abandoned Copenhagen Climate Treaty"

Nothing is in the news about it (not really a surprise there, a lot of high power figures involved in this all are media moguls)

In a doco a few years back it was suggested that the Bilderbergs were waiting for the right situation to introduce a global government and new world order. First Iraq war didnt work, terrorism didnt work, now they're trying it with global warming and trading schemes. Thats if you believe the story!

[Airmon]

First I've heard about an Abandoned treaty.

Originally Posted by MRFGXR6

How may you ask, simply for the face that every aerosol can, every fridge, freezer, air-conditioned etc, had to be re-gassed and made to pass the new standards. This the scientists staed would make the hole decrease and save the world blaa blaa blaa, and as good little citizens we believed them. Now not long after this lie, published in the Sydney morning Herald was a little article half way through in very small and insignificant writing stating and I still have this article: the hole in the ozone layer is the smallest it has ever been in 50 years.

I agree about the scare tactics being used against us, but in the case of CFCs it was probably a good thing. Even small amount of CFCs are very costly to our upper atmosphere. But I digress.

The Australian Government is being pressured globally to make a stand on Climate change which isn't making anyone in Parliament house's job any easier. Whether global pressure will win over what the Australia voters want is yet to be seen, but I hope it doesn't.

As a country we have to do something to reduce out emisisons, with Australia being the 12th worst in terms of Emissions per capita (based on 2 year old Data), and only just being higher then the US, and while I agree Copenhagen and the ETS isn't it, we can't dismiss it all together.
I also agree that the whole Global warming thing is and always has been a big charade to make money, but we still can't just disregard our emissions completely.
Some Countries (Including NZ) have managed to reduce their CO2 emissions since the 1990 summit. Does that mean they will be required to participate in a further reduction, or will this be taken into account?

Lord Monckton wasn't wrong either. The Draft copy of the treaty is a pain to find on any UN website. I found a copy on another website if anyone is interested. From the summary of it, what everyone has been telling us is what the treaty is so far about.
It states that we should not allow the av. temperature to rise more then 2*C above the pre-industrial average, and no more then 0.2*C per decade (what about natural fluctuations?).
I think they may be dreaming with this one:

For this purpose, the Parties [shall] [should] collectively [reduce global emissions by at least [50] [81–71] [85] per cent [from 1990] levels by 2050.]

To put some perspective to that. Australia's emissions have already increased 9% since 1990, 19.3% for the united states, and some developing countries being higher then 100% above 1990 levels (which will probably be ignored because they haven't been polluting for as long as developed countries have).
Here is a link to it for anyone interested:
http://www.globalclimatescam.com/doc...hagen-2009.pdf

Originally Posted by Raptor

Perhaps the concept of a Nation being the optimal model has had it's day. Perhaps to facilitate a change we need a global currency. Lets call this carbon, which has the same value everywhere and whose generation (or release) can be reasonable aligned to the current split of the affluent and the poorer. Trading carbon can facilitate the change and a shift of wealth just as the concept of money or currency assisted in the early tranistion from bartering to what we know as a modern financial economy. No doubt there were those that argued passionately for the status-quo to be maintained as each of the above regimes changed as well while others could see opportunities and promoted the transition. Just some food for thought....

Good point raised Raptor, it can indeed seen as a global development. My concern is, if this does go ahead, and we are forced to pay a tax, to give money to a developing nation, so that they may develop further, how does this help reduce Global emissions.
A developing nation, given money, will develop further, creating more emissions then were ever saved in the process. Take China's recent position as the worlds Highest Polluter (I use that term loosely) for example.

I'm not suggesting a 3rd world country becoming more developed is a bad thing, that is not what this issue is about.

[rodderz]

What a pain that thing is to read (the treaty) every sentence (has a sentence in brackets( and another for good measure))

Makes you wonder if they have (the UN) have deliberately (written the paper) all like that to make people just sign instead of fighting their way through it all (another bracket)

[Green X]

3rd world becomes 1st world, 1st world country's turn into 3rd world country under the ETS TAX system.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Keven "Hollywood" Rudd's aircraft will suffer a explosive decompression on the way over

[Hillbilly F Truck]

Al Gore has mentioned global governance http://www.nwotruth.com/gore-us-clim...al-governance/ as has Rudd http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225779729462 and lately so has the President elect of the UN. It's no conspiracy theory.