Hyundai smells Ford blood

[Dr Smith]

I think we also need to correct a myth about South Korea, it is NOT a cheap labour country. It is a highly efficient & industrialised nation. Efficiency and high volume can lead to cheap products. The labour component of building a car is not as great as people think.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think we also need to correct a myth about South Korea, it is NOT a cheap labour country. It is a highly efficient & industrialised nation. Efficiency and high volume can lead to cheap products. The labour component of building a car is not as great as people think.

Fantastic post, and it is true that South Koreans enjoy the same wages as their western counterparts. From memory the labour cost of a vehicle is around 12-15% of the vehicles price tag. R&D take up more than 50% for some vehicles..........

[ute83]

The wife has an hyundai santa fe, 08 2.2l td awd 343nm. It handles fantastic, drives like a sedan, averages 8.5L/100km. It's a perfect allrounder. We pitted it against both the territory awd and rwd. On test driving the ford the passenger sunvisor rattled in both of them as well as other quality concerns, it really was a no brainer. And a superb 5 year warranty to boot.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by csv8

Hyundai smells Ford blood...

"I am not sure when we will take over number three," Lee said, after a lengthy contemplation. "[Moving to third place] is not part of our strategy."

But it will happen?

"I think so. Market share is important but we are not trying to just chase market share," Lee declared.

This is a man who is not focused purely on sales numbers, but on profitability, Ala Ford. Only Ford made a profit out of the top three in the last year, despite having the smallest market share.

Hyundai are on the right path, and have a growing market share to complement that.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Fantastic post, and it is true that South Koreans enjoy the same wages as their western counterparts. From memory the labour cost of a vehicle is around 12-15% of the vehicles price tag. R&D take up more than 50% for some vehicles..........

R&D is a huge component. Koreans have the same wages its the benfits that we get that they are lacking.

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Flappist

Two problems though:
1) The majority of car owners do not know or even care if their car is FWD, RWD or AWD.....do you know what type of motor control system is in your washing machine? Or even care?
2) To the majority of car owners performance and handling are way down the list of requirements, well below price, fuel economy, colour, style, interior finish, number of seats, room in the boot, safety, car stereo, size, ease of parking etc. etc. etc.

Very true, I think I read an article that was posted on these forums that something like 80% of BMW 1 series owners thought their car was FWD or Didn't know.

"I think so. Market share is important but we are not trying to just chase market share," Lee declared.

He also confirmed that Hyundai aims to reach the milestone market share of 10 per cent in 2012.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by flappist

Two problems though:

1) The majority of car owners do not know or even care if their car is FWD, RWD or AWD.....do you know what type of motor control system is in your washing machine? Or even care?

2) To the majority of car owners performance and handling are way down the list of requirements, well below price, fuel economy, colour, style, interior finish, number of seats, room in the boot, safety, car stereo, size, ease of parking etc. etc. etc.

As far as the idea that "sporty" cats will never be FWD....
Focus XR5, Mazda 3 MPS, Audi TT, Golf GTI et al.

All well and good, but true performance/sports cars can never go FWD. Think Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, high series BMW & Mercedes Benz. There will always be a market for RWD, its getting smaller and more specialised, but RWD will never "go the way of carbies & 2 speed autos"

As for "sporty" cars, they have nothing to do with sports cars anyway.

But back on topic & Hyundai - number 1 is in their sights no doubt. Toyota have identified them as one of their biggest threats...

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

Mmmm ok so hats off to Hyundai, why?
Just because they have managed to study & copy the western vehicle makers.
Just because they have very cheap labour costs so can make vehicles & sell them cheap compared to many other makes.
Just because their vehicles are only now getting close to the build & safety quality of western vehicles.
Just because their vehicles are getting close to the handling & performance of western vehicles (no I take that one back) as they are not as yet.

Oh boy...where does one start?

So....Hyundai should not be commended for analysing the competition, analysing the market, making critical and risky business decisions to tailor their products to meet the needs of the market and then implement that new strategy? All the while, spending millions on R&D to implement their own technology and innovations to complement their market research and business model changes?

Are you suggesting they should stay the way they were in the 80's, with a 5% market share and a reputation lower than a dead hedgehog? (No Hedgehogs were hurt during the making of this post).

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. If you dont understand your competition and understand how they can succeed in the market, you will never compete with them.

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

If you indeed love this country & support it then is more to that than saying so or being Football mad eh lol
I would never buy an asian vehicle for all of the reasons above as I would always choose to support where I can local industry.

So Australian's should follow and purchase blindly only Australian made products? I'm sorry, but if an Australian product is not up to scratch with its competition, then it will NOT get my money. I will not reinforce poor quality & value by blindly purchasing a product. It is through competition that pushes Australian products to become better. If they want my money, they need to EARN it. I dont think this is the case for the FG, i think it is a world class product hence why i own one. But i will NOT subscribe to blind bias.

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

Yes they do now but when they started out who did they study & copy.

The facts are they are not up to scratch on handling or build quality yet but they are gaining at a fast rate yes.

Who cares what they did 20-30 years ago? Do you have conclusive proof for all of the 'facts' you are sprouting? Can you prove that Hyundai copied others? It is vital to keep reinventing yourself to maintain a fresh presence in the market. The market is very different now to what it was in the 80's.

Oh and i think you should check out the Government Recalls website. There have been a damn sight more recalls for Holden and Ford than the others! More than triple in cases!

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

Lasty is the a Ford Forum or not as many seem to bash Aussie made vehicles on what I see as an Aussie made Vehicle Forum (Go Figure)

So we should automatically bash other products because they are not Ford related? Its people like you that give Ford enthusiasts a bad name. Credit and respect where it is due, and in this case, Hyundai have worked extremely hard to get where they are and it *seems* to be paying off.

Take off the blind bias blinkers mate!! Welcome to the world of Globalisation.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Fantastic post, and it is true that South Koreans enjoy the same wages as their western counterparts. From memory the labour cost of a vehicle is around 12-15% of the vehicles price tag. R&D take up more than 50% for some vehicles..........

Very true. And the main components that any car company use in trying to recoup that R&D, is to either have very large manufacturing numbers coming out of the plant (japanese aim for 350 to 400,000 per plant) with low profit margins, or to have huge profit margins on each car.

Toyota OZ, Ford OZ, and Holden, combined produced 224,000 cars out of their plants last year. And I would hate to think what the profit (loss) margins were.

Its only a matter of time before a high volume, quality producer like Hyundai, work there way to the top.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think we also need to correct a myth about South Korea, it is NOT a cheap labour country. It is a highly efficient & industrialised nation. Efficiency and high volume can lead to cheap products. The labour component of building a car is not as great as people think.

Spot on. I do business with South Korea and have worked there on several occasions.

South Korea is the epitome of efficiency IMO. People get paid reasonably well, it is very safe, everything just seems to work.. and work very well.

We would have far less social problems if we adopted a few of their ways. If we had some of their minds helping out with our infrastructure problems we would be in a far better position, probably at half the price.

As for the car company.. well Hyundai / Kia / LG / Samsung have so many fingers in so many pies they dominate almost every industry there... They are cash making machines with a loyal following of 50 million country men / women.

Hyundai want to be number 1, and knowing what I know about Koreans and their industrious ways it will be a matter of when, not if.

I'm due back there soon, my stash of Soju has run dry... :(

[mik]

Originally Posted by flappist

Two problems though:

1) The majority of car owners do not know or even care if their car is FWD, RWD or AWD.....do you know what type of motor control system is in your washing machine? Or even care?

2) To the majority of car owners performance and handling are way down the list of requirements, well below price, fuel economy, colour, style, interior finish, number of seats, room in the boot, safety, car stereo, size, ease of parking etc. etc. etc.

As far as the idea that "sporty" cats will never be FWD....
Focus XR5, Mazda 3 MPS, Audi TT, Golf GTI et al.

most of those cars are small medium size cars audi tt is`nt that awd?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by mik

most of those cars are small medium size cars audi tt is`nt that awd?

They had a base model 1.8 that was FWD.

[Nikked]

We had a new i45 in at work, and i must say, its shames the G6E on features. Even the build quality is good, panels/paint perfect, solid feel, nice gaps. Hard to believe it was a Hyundai.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

So we should automatically bash other products because they are not Ford related? Its people like you that give Ford enthusiasts a bad name. Credit and respect where it is due, and in this case, Hyundai have worked extremely hard to get where they are and it *seems* to be paying off.

Take off the blind bias blinkers mate!! Welcome to the world of Globalisation.

You understand so little its scary

Welcome to the world of people just not getting it

Under your rules we should not even care if the asains take over our country.

I could address each one of your points easy enough but who can be bothered as for anybody with some sense they could see easily your points make no sense & are way off topic with what I said.

[fte50]

double post

[fte50]

All the fellas posting either "for or against" - SHHHHH - LISTEN,

Theres something going on at KIA :hrod

[Fled74]

Originally Posted by fte50

Theres something going on at KIA

Do tell.

[Franco Cozzo]

I reckon Hyundai should bring the Genesis over, with the V8 and V6, kick Ford, Holden and Toyota in the nuts. Competition is a good thing for the consumer

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by ute83

The wife has an hyundai santa fe, 08 2.2l td awd 343nm. It handles fantastic, drives like a sedan, averages 8.5L/100km. It's a perfect allrounder. We pitted it against both the territory awd and rwd. On test driving the ford the passenger sunvisor rattled in both of them as well as other quality concerns, it really was a no brainer. And a superb 5 year warranty to boot.

au 2 /santa fe 09 /prado 150 in my driveway....au absolutely kills any build /drive/noise/whatever qualities of the santa fe ,dont get me wrong ok vehicle for what it is but it dont handle ,goes ok ,loud as heck, uncomfortable ...built to a price !!! nothing more than a tin can with doors beside the prado ,even my just sold patrol kills it for build quality ...but it flogs everyone on price ,has lots of options,great warranty and once someone upgrades to a new car the rose coloured glasses come on. so you get a customer and they have no problems or great service to fix said problems and you have a return customer .

im trying to sell mine barely worth whats owed , wont buy another . but will that be the nail for many ex ford/holden drivers that got bad service ,bad resale maybe, just maybe the big ones should look at the keep it simple process and more what the customer wants and things may turn around ... dont want to say it but ...toyota ...you can work the rest out ...my two cents.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by ute83

On test driving the ford the passenger sunvisor rattled in both of them as well as other quality concerns, it really was a no brainer.

When I read things like is I'm not sure what to make of them.. Personally I think what you are saying is total BS!!! A sunvisor rattling?? Come on.... Please.. What part of a sunvisor would even make a rattling noise?? I've never heard of a sunvisor rattling, let alone 2 of them back to back in brand new cars!! Also, never heard anyting rattle in any car unless you're reving it hard... Do you really get a chance to do that enough times in a test drive, to hear this??

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Also, never heard anyting rattle in any car unless you're reving it hard... Do you really get a chance to do that enough times in a test drive, to hear this??

I have a new Fiesta, it rattled all the trims and dash when I took it off road rofl.

Sorry its not new anymore, as of a few days ago it turned 1 year in my posession.

[Windsor220]

Ford wont go down quietly here. There is quite a bit of new product around the corner to help with sales.
New Territory with diesel option
Falcon V8, LPG and Ecoboost
New Focus

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Ford wont go down quietly here. There is quite a bit of new product around the corner to help with sales.
New Territory with diesel option
Falcon V8, LPG and Ecoboost
New Focus

But they are years away..not within 6 months

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Ford wont go down quietly here. There is quite a bit of new product around the corner to help with sales.
New Territory with diesel option
Falcon V8, LPG and Ecoboost
New Focus

While I like Ford, they still need to win over the public with products other than Falcon and Territory.
Even with updating local models, it's Ford's imports that are letting them down badly because most
of the growth is in light and small cars as well as small SUVs, three areas where Ford performs badly.

Conversely, this is the three areas where Hyundai and Toyota are performing well.

[kaniSS]

Originally Posted by flappist

When did a Ford or Holden ever go down conrod at 300km/h?

If you are talking about the V8 supercar circus there is no reason why a fake hyundai shape could not be used instead of the fake falcon or fake commodore shapes on the identical race car chassis and running gear they both use.

Glenn Seton did it in 96. ;)

In my opinion Ford need to up their built quality to be competitive.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

While I like Ford, they still need to win over the public with products other than Falcon and Territory.
Even with updating local models, it's Ford's imports that are letting them down badly because most
of the growth is in light and small cars as well as small SUVs, three areas where Ford performs badly.

Conversely, this is the three areas where Hyundai and Toyota are performing well.

I think Ford Australia's small imports are a match for most other small cars in this country in the same sort of price range, Festiva (great small car at a good price) Focus (same) Escape (well it could be better) The Kuga would address that & the Mondeo is another fine vehicle which again equals most & better some.

Ford tends to get most of its imports based on European designs while say Holden small cars are based on Korean Designs (I know which I would rather).

Yes Toyota does have good build quality though they are very boring & clinical cars, the Toyota of old with the Supra's, Hot Corolla's & MR2,s was much more interesting.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I reckon Hyundai should bring the Genesis over, with the V8 and V6, kick Ford, Holden and Toyota in the nuts. Competition is a good thing for the consumer

And this is exactly what I am talking about, if they do as you say & manage to take Ford & Holden down to such a low point that they just become importers & close down the factories then will you still say its a good thing?

At some point in tiume we all have to think beyond ourselves or this car is cheaper than that car etc.. it is for the good of our great country!

Sorry I just noticed your like 18 & work at a Honda dealership so of course you dont care if Ford or Holden go down the gurgler.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

So we should automatically bash other products because they are not Ford related? Its people like you that give Ford enthusiasts a bad name. Credit and respect where it is due, and in this case, Hyundai have worked extremely hard to get where they are and it *seems* to be paying off.

Take off the blind bias blinkers mate!! Welcome to the world of Globalisation.

At least I am a Ford enthusiast (given how many of them I have owned & the way I am standing up for them) while a few like yourself on here come across as neither supporting Ford as a company or indeed a good Aussie either as you take pleasure in these asain companies doing well & even going further by saying it would be good if they stick it to Ford or Holden etc.....

The people on the factory floors of these great aussie companies would love to hear yours & some others comments I am sure.

Is more to being a Ford enthusiast than just buying some second hand Ford.

If you do not support the company with your Loyality than your not really a Ford enthusiast

[Jimmyd]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

au 2 /santa fe 09 /prado 150 in my driveway....au absolutely kills any build /drive/noise/whatever qualities of the santa fe ,

Yes, but the AU build quality was a highpoint for Ford Australia......

Seriously though, Hyundai are a very canny group - yes, some designs may be somewhat derivative of other manufacturers (headlights on the EF-B Sonata borrowed from Mercedes, rear of NF Sonata from Toyota, etc) but then again Mercedes does this too (AU tail lights on CLS). This "borrowing" of automotive design and technology has been going on since the advent of the "Horseless Carriage" in the late 1870's.
Case in point – everyone seems to be getting hot and bothered over the FPV Supercharged Coyote engine. This engine is the culmination of a number of "borrowed" technologies. Think back to the first supercharged engine in 1921 (Mercedes), first EFI in 1968 (Volkswagen), first V8 in 1904 (Marmon), first 4 valve head in 1913 (Peugeot), first OHC engine in 1898 (Wilkinson) all packaged in a RWD Front/Rear chassis design from 1895 (Panhard Le Vassor).
Does anyone think twice about how cheap their mobile phones or computers are? Yes, derivative design and mass production is the answer - this is what the "Second Wave" are bringing to the table by leapfrogging the early development stages through observing their competitors and applying basic economies of scale by building for a global market.
Hyundai are stepping up to the big boys table by developing a global hero car - the RWD Genesis. Is it dynamically superior to their direct rivals from the East and West? I can not comment - I have not driven the Genesis, but it always bodes well for the automotive market when a new player comes of age.

Don't forget that without competition driving design and technological innovation we would all be still riding horses.....

Cheers

James