October 2011 sales

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Looking at the Camry number, maybe I4 might just save the Falcon? 2,700 & not that far of being the best selling local model either..

Actually, Territory is saving Falcon, the average transaction price of mostly diesel sales
with no discounts to speak of means that Ford is roaring along with an impressive product
mix and when FGII comes out, all the $36,990 specials will vanish as there's not much FG I stock....

[naddis01]

If the $36990 specials disappear what will happen to Falcon sales considering almost half of sales are XR6's?

[XR Martin]

Big month for Camry as its in runout mode prior to the new model im assuming. Rental companies love them.

[P6LTD351]

All of this "can't get enough stock" talk, I have been hearing for years. Let's face it, it's not that Ford can't get enough Fiestas, Focus' or build enough Falcons. It's that the general public aren't buying them.

Surely we can't be happy with Ford flagging in 5th position. Image is everything and people like a winner. That old chestnut, "but Ford makes a profit" will mean diddly squat when no one is buying as the Ford image deteriorates with every rung of the ladder that it slips down.

It's time to fix the image. It's FORD for crying out loud! Known all around the world with starting the assembly line as we know it. Start tapping in to its rich history in the marketing of the BRAND.

[Struggo]

Interesting numbers here,

After the first 10 months of 2010, Holden had sold 49,711 locally manufactured vehicles and Ford had sold 42,767 – a 6944-unit differential. After the same 10 months in 2011, Holden has sold 62,204 Australian-made cars compared with Ford’s 32,363 – now a whopping 29,841-unit difference.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/144413/o...lips-to-fifth/

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Struggo

Interesting numbers here,



http://www.caradvice.com.au/144413/o...lips-to-fifth/

Yes, but Ford still make a profit.

end of sarcasm.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by naddis01

If the $36990 specials disappear what will happen to Falcon sales considering almost half of sales are XR6's?

Watch and see....

While more than half of all Falcon sales are XR6, not all of them sell for the low $36,990.
Don't forget that originally, a lot of those early this year were built with regular screen and 17" wheels.
The more desirable ones continued to sell at higher prices.

The test will be what Holden does with their new SV6 and whether they continue the discounting
after the new model arrives.....

[prydey]

sales threads are funny

[lowriding]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Watch and see....

While more than half of all Falcon sales are XR6, not all of them sell for the low $36,990.
Don't forget that originally, a lot of those early this year were built with regular screen and 17" wheels.
The more desirable ones continued to sell at higher prices.

yeah some arent as low as 36990 , some are much lower than that !

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by lowriding

yeah some arent as low as 36990 , some are much lower than that !

Which units and how many?
Be very careful assuming that Ford has thousands of discounted units to sell, Broadmeadows is now pretty bare...

Read that as only old stock, Ford is now only building to order and quick sailing the last of FG 1 stock.

What is of more importance is FG II, you won't be seeing those prices with FG II, not at release anyway.
Look at territory, the RRPs are holding fast and reaping good sales, the same will happen with FG II.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Watch and see....

While more than half of all Falcon sales are XR6, not all of them sell for the low $36,990.
Don't forget that originally, a lot of those early this year were built with regular screen and 17" wheels.
The more desirable ones continued to sell at higher prices.

The test will be what Holden does with their new SV6 and whether they continue the discounting
after the new model arrives.....

Falcon needed more standard equipment to remain competitive. The world and the competition haven't stood still since the launch of the FG. You can't charge more for what people expect should be there in the first place and still expect market share to increase or even stay the same.

So yes the basic equipment is much better in XR6 - it needed to be. Doesn't mean that customers - mostly fleet will see that as worth more. It may however keep Falcon sales numbers ticking along for another two or three years at current prices and stop resale prices of Falcon slipping any further.

All in all something Ford may not be entirely happy with, but will most probably accept.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

All of this "can't get enough stock" talk, I have been hearing for years. Let's face it, it's not that Ford can't get enough Fiestas, Focus' or build enough Falcons. It's that the general public aren't buying them.

Fiesta, Falcon and Territory stock is fine. Its Focus and Ranger stock thats the problem. Ford admitted themselves that they would not be able to get much stock of new Focus out of Europe, because they are at max capacity, not until they switch supply to Thailand when they start building them there next year.

The full Ranger line up isn't available yet either, they started with dual cabs, are about to add crew cabs, and single cabs and Wildtrak don't go on sale until next year. Something like that anyway, and now the factory has been shut down due to the floods.

Supplies of everything else isn't a problem.

But Ford need to do some serious brand image building, I think a lot of there sales problems are caused by bad brand image, and bad reputation. Not to mention years of poor PR and sales and marketing. They are trying to do a lot to fix the marketing, they still need work in other areas, as well as fixing shoddy dealerships.

[Poetic Justice]

I believe the Camry number is attributed to a demonstrator program for run out rather than true sales.

[lowriding]

XR6 is now currently on sale @ 34990 d/away with leather ,18's ,reverse sensors and 7 inch screen ..thats no haggle for a 6 spd manual ...you can get the 6spd auto at the same price with 2 mins of negotiation.Thats a pretty cheap deal really.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Which units and how many?
Be very careful assuming that Ford has thousands of discounted units to sell, Broadmeadows is now pretty bare...

Read that as only old stock, Ford is now only building to order and quick sailing the last of FG 1 stock.

What is of more importance is FG II, you won't be seeing those prices with FG II, not at release anyway.
Look at territory, the RRPs are holding fast and reaping good sales, the same will happen with FG II.

As lowriding said, XR6 LE's are at $34,990 drive away.

I may or may not have one on order with manual, curtains, full-sized spare, tint, carpet mats, scuff plates, bootliner, etc. for less than that price...!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Elements

As lowriding said, XR6 LE's are at $34,990 drive away.

I may or may not have one on order with manual, curtains, full-sized spare, tint, carpet mats, scuff plates, bootliner, etc. for less than that price...!

What price did they quote you for a similarly optioned FG II?

Elements, I know that you know exactly what Ford is doing with stock at the moment
and that those discounts will all disappear the moment all the LEs are sold and FG II arrives...

BTW, great purchase, what colour did you end up choosing?
I hear that they are extending the ABN holder $2,000 cash back to retail buyers...

[brismike]

Originally Posted by Elements

As lowriding said, XR6 LE's are at $34,990 drive away.

I may or may not have one on order with manual, curtains, full-sized spare, tint, carpet mats, scuff plates, bootliner, etc. for less than that price...!

Sounds like a sweet deal .. I'm thinking about trading in my 2010 XR6 which has 11,000 k's on it for something like what you say you might have on order. Although I would go for the ZF and I want the full size colour screen.

Wonder what they would give me for the trade? .. my XR6 is mint.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Elements

As lowriding said, XR6 LE's are at $34,990 drive away.

I may or may not have one on order with manual, curtains, full-sized spare, tint, carpet mats, scuff plates, bootliner, etc. for less than that price...!

They need to tell people that these are the prices, whats the point of them being this cheap if no one knows about it.

[Rodge]

Quote:
After the first 10 months of 2010, Holden had sold 49,711 locally manufactured vehicles and Ford had sold 42,767 – a 6944-unit differential. After the same 10 months in 2011, Holden has sold 62,204 Australian-made cars compared with Ford’s 32,363 – now a whopping 29,841-unit difference.

That is disturbing and its no better if you take a spot view of only October's sales with Commodore outselling Falcon 2:1. This is despite months of specials on XR6's. What's the solution ??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Rodge

That is disturbing and its no better if you take a spot view of only October's sales with Commodore outselling Falcon 2:1. This is despite months of specials on XR6's. What's the solution ??

Holden needs to keep two shifts ful and running at their plant while Ford is geared for one shift only

Their business cases are clearly different and where Territory is now adding strong profit due to higher
transaction prices we can only assume the cruze contributes equally to Holden albeit at a much lower rate.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden needs to keep two shifts ful and running at their plant while Ford is geared for one shift only

Their business cases are clearly different and where Territory is now adding strong profit due to higher
transaction prices we can only assume the cruze contributes equally to Holden albeit at a much lower rate.

What a load of baloney. The planet has been producing cars for 120 years, it is basically an exact science. Ford does not have a magic fairy dust sprinkled around their factory to make them more efficient.

Holden and Toyota have both said you need to produce at least 100,000 cars a year in this country to be viable. These are companies which make cars using global engines, and use platforms which are shared with other global models.

Ford makes two distinct cars in Australia on unique platforms with unqiue local engines. Every redesign of Falcon and Territory is at least half a billion bucks...each! And drivetrain development is all funded and produced locally. Considering the extra costs Ford has to absorb compared to Holden and Toyota you would at think that Ford would be looking at 120,000 units across Falcon and Territory.

Just because Ford is 'geared' for one shift, does not make them any more viable. It just means that cant sell any more than that.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Brazen

What a load of baloney. The planet has been producing cars for 120 years, it is basically an exact science. Ford does not have a magic fairy dust sprinkled around their factory to make them more efficient.

Holden and Toyota have both said you need to produce at least 100,000 cars a year in this country to be viable. These are companies which make cars using global engines, and use platforms which are shared with other global models.

Ford makes two distinct cars in Australia on unique platforms with unqiue local engines. Every redesign of Falcon and Territory is at least half a billion bucks...each! And drivetrain development is all funded and produced locally. Considering the extra costs Ford has to absorb compared to Holden and Toyota you would at think that Ford would be looking at 120,000 units across Falcon and Territory.

Just because Ford is 'geared' for one shift, does not make them any more viable. It just means that cant sell any more than that.

BINGO!

Ford would build as many as people would want to buy. All this 1 shift...yeah yeah. It's one shift because there is no DEMAND. Ford would have 10 shifts if the demand was there.

[Joe5619]

I know profit is king & I hope Ford Aust is making money...... BUT ...... 1,500 units each month is pretty bad for Falcon...

A) How low can they go? with no stock around & usual Dec/jan close, I think Jan's number will be lucky to get 4 digit's
B) How long can Ford keep it going at these levels?


Truely hope I4 fires as the Falcon needs something at this stage of its life!! Territory shouldn't be holding up Falcon in my opinion.. Falcon needs to stand by it's self

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

What a load of baloney. The planet has been producing cars for 120 years, it is basically an exact science. Ford does not have a magic fairy dust sprinkled around their factory to make them more efficient.

The annual statements for the past six years sharply contradicts that belief and if you don't believe me
just do a search on both companies financials since 2005, they are a tail of woe but especially so for Holden..

Look at the philosophy of the two makers, Holden is about producing as many vehicles as possible where as Ford
wants to produce vehicles with higher transaction prices. In that respect Territory is now selling at unbelievable prices.
In addition to that i would expect that the refreshes to Falcon and commodore will see an end to the steep
discounting that's now happening in both camps.

Now contrast that to all the Cruzes being produced, sure they are 50/50 on each shift but in essence Cruze adds up to
one shift of $22,000 to $28,000 cars...even though Holden tries to shandy them through on both shifts there are two
sets of assembly areas and only one shared final assembly line so Holden has spent about $350 million to get Cruze here....
In contrast, Ford just imports the Focus from Europe (later Thailand) and allows the home room to keep the profit...

On top of that, Holden lost around $ 200 million on Pontiac G8 or around $5,000/car and guess what they did?
they went out borrowed $200 million to sell 116 cars a month in the USA at a RRP of US $30,000..

And....How come Holden own built V6 is actually dearer to source than the V8 from Mexico
Or is Falcon's I-6 Plan completely identical or have they amortized the design that much that the
engine is way cheaper to produce than Holden's SIDI?

See, the differences keep on coming.....

Here's another clue, internal borrowing off parent companies. The reason there's no significant profit
is that development costs are borrowed and paid up front before a new car goes into production. Both companies
are adept at maximizing deductions and minimizing profits for obvious reasons....like government subsidies.


Now if you can still tell me that both companies' business plans are identical, then I will try to keep a straight face....

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Brazen

What a load of baloney. The planet has been producing cars for 120 years, it is basically an exact science. Ford does not have a magic fairy dust sprinkled around their factory to make them more efficient.

Holden and Toyota have both said you need to produce at least 100,000 cars a year in this country to be viable. These are companies which make cars using global engines, and use platforms which are shared with other global models.

Ford makes two distinct cars in Australia on unique platforms with unqiue local engines. Every redesign of Falcon and Territory is at least half a billion bucks...each! And drivetrain development is all funded and produced locally. Considering the extra costs Ford has to absorb compared to Holden and Toyota you would at think that Ford would be looking at 120,000 units across Falcon and Territory.

Just because Ford is 'geared' for one shift, does not make them any more viable. It just means that cant sell any more than that.

Sure, sadly Campbellfield isn't running at full capacity now however building too many cars is more expensive then not building enough as strange as that seems, which ironically was a Holden exec's quote at the time. Remember when Holden had tens of thousands of unsold cars one year in the last quarter. They had to lower the staff discount level because the dealers were retailing at a similar price point, lol. I think the employee pricelist appeared on the LS1 forum for a short time back then.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Sure, sadly Campbellfield isn't running at full capacity now however building too many cars is more expensive then not building enough as strange as that seems, which ironically was a Holden exec's quote at the time. Remember when Holden had tens of thousands of unsold cars one year in the last quarter. They had to lower the staff discount level because the dealers were retailing as similar price point, lol.

OK, Ford got caught with a load of XR6s intended for fleets that took forever to clear but even with discounts,
Ford really didn't lose that much on them because they basically retailed them for fleet prices.
I would expect the same was true with Holden and their discounting..it looks worse than it is.

Where a lot of the profit goes is in forward investment in the next product cycles...
It's also a great tax dodge ...especially if you can borrow from funds your own parent.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

OK, Ford got caught with a load of XR6s intended for fleets that took forever to clear but even with discounts,
Ford really didn't lose that much on them because they basically retailed them for fleet prices.
I would expect the same was true with Holden and their discounting..it looks worse than it is.

Where a lot of the profit goes is in forward investment in the next product cycles...
It's also a great tax dodge ...especially if you can borrow from funds your own parent.

and inter-company pricing is back in the tax office/government spotlight....the one Toyota got blinded by...

on a side note, sat in a Calais VEII today... was really surprised at how inferior it appeared..actually confused...Ford just needs a better ext. colour list.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I know profit is king & I hope Ford Aust is making money...... BUT ...... 1,500 units each month is pretty bad for Falcon...

A) How low can they go? with no stock around & usual Dec/jan close, I think Jan's number will be lucky to get 4 digit's
B) How long can Ford keep it going at these levels?


Truely hope I4 fires as the Falcon needs something at this stage of its life!! Territory shouldn't be holding up Falcon in my opinion.. Falcon needs to stand by it's self

If all Ford was making was Falcon sedan sold for $32.990 drive away then i'd agree with you but that's not the case.

Ford sell 1500/mth of falcon sedans....with FG II the RRP will rise
Ford sells 1300.mth of Territory...80% are high priced diesels that are $45K - $60K.
Ford sells 700.mth of utes, most sell for between $31K to $40K.

By my count that's around 3700 to 4.000 per moth or more than enough for a one shift plant.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

and inter-company pricing is back in the tax office/government spotlight....the one Toyota got blinded by...

Hung by their own super dilligent accounting systems....
You don't ever see Holden or Ford get called for how much they buy parts and power trains from overseas.

on a side note, sat in a Calais VEII today... was really surprised at how
inferior it appeared..actually confused...Ford just needs a better ext. colour list.

Interesting, Holden loyalty runs pretty deep and wouldn't be surprised if nary an eyebrow was raised..

[prydey]

if you consider that according to the resident experts, at least 1500 of commodore sales are made up of wagon and v8 sales, then the 6cyl sedan sales are about on par with falcon.

lets face it. both cars have taken a dive in sales. whilst there is still a market for the larger car, it is considerably smaller, and i can't see it ever growing back to the size it was even a few years ago.

choice in the market place is greater than it ever has been and is continuing to grow. a lot of imports are now starting to come with 5yr warranty as well. toyota are offering 3.9% finance.

cars no longer sell themselves. everyone wants a great deal. many people couldn't tell the difference between most of the cars on offer. they just buy the one that gives them the best warm feeling.

at least when FG2 comes online, those buying it will have a car that is obviously new, so hopefully that will entice some who jumped on FG early, to trade up. why trade up to a car that looks the same as the one you bought 3 years ago? if the series 2 commodore looked more different, i wouldn't be surprised if it had kept its top spot. whilst keeping models for long periods of time is good for the manufacturers bottom line, and improves resale, it also means those who used to trade up every year or 2 to have the latest shape no longer have to.

[jpd80]

FoA and Holden's importance in their respective companies is not completely underpinned by local sales,
Both divisions are strategically important in terms of PD & engineering work for their Asia Pacific regions
All that's needed is to make the cars without causing red ink and all will be well, it's the use of internal
company suppliers where a lot of money gets legally transferred to other regions like Asia and Europe...