United Fuels 100 octane

[tankclare]

Never had a problem with the united 100. Get it where ever I can.

[yearby]

Oh! I see everyone on the let's get rid of the ethanol fuel ride again, seems a little bit of knowlege is still too dangerous for some people.

Now, I might be showing my age here but, when I first started playing with hot cars we would go to the speed shop and buy some octane booster (in a can), then we would put it in the fuel tank when we filled up the car.

Now shock, horror, but that octane booster turned out to be 98% ethanol???????????

You still need to tune, set up, build the car/engine for ethanol/high octane fuel to get best performace, nothing has changed.

Regards Peter

[red_hotxr6]

Seems to me like different cars are better suited to run different fuels more efficiently than others. My 92 toyota tarago will not run e10, it is very hard to start, when it does get running it is sluggish and runs very badly..I suppose it is a case of try some and see if that particular fuel works for your car.

[graham7773]

I own a pretend Ford, Ford Telstar aka Mazda 626. My owners manual specifically says not to use any form of e10. e10 91Ron or e10 95Ron or tune for e10 98 Ron. Going back a few years and right up to today, looking at high performance cars, drag cars etc, alcohol fuel consumption is double ie 200% the quantity used by "cars" with petrol engines of similar weight and engine size. Given the difference in quantity of fuel used and the quantity of e10 in normal petrol, regardless of tuning, will give an economy loss of 5% and a similar power loss. if the computer can be adjusted to use the petrol alcohol mix to get the power available by using e10 then fuel economy will suffer again, as much as 12%. If you disagree with this, I would like to see your figures, not anecdotal statements....Just an after thought, you can buy methylated spirits, aka ethanol for somewhat less than the price of petrol in 20 liter drums if you are really serious about "economy"

[The Yeti]

I have no porblem with the ethanol side of things, more the way its blended and stored

cast your mind back not so long ago when 91ron was the conventional ULP then they had e10 that was 93ron then the oil companys and gvt decided we can drop the Ron of conventional ULP and boost it back up to 91with ethanol and its all gone down hill from there

this 100ULP isnt bad in thory but it seems to be badly stored as I said I had to tow my car home due to the entire fuel system filling with crap (water mud and god only knows what) but that was 1 servo, Ive seen simular from otehr servos so I put it down to a united thing at the point of sale ratehr than the fuel it's self

so I for 1 would prefer to pay a little extra for 98Ron that isnt full of crap

[EDManual]

I would rather 9 litres of 91 than 9 litres of 91 and 1 litre of ethanol! And they both get about the same consumption!

[bbcoupe]

I've been using United 100 for over 3 years in my 545ci XBGT, I changed to it when avgas became to difficult to obtain.

Starting, cruising and highway driving is great. 1/4 mile times always improving with a best of 10.82.

I will only buy it from the renovated/new stations and also those that have more traffic through them to try and avoid the potential storage dramas.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

What???? why couldnt an engine be tuned to a margenly higher octain fuel than it was orginaly designed for

sorry what I meant was, engines that are beyond tuning

[2011G6E]

All that needs to be said really...


You'll never avoid the fact that like the miracle fuel hydrogen, it's an energy-negative fuel...it takes far more energy to produce than you ever get out of the final product. Until some massive leap in technology is discovered that makes ethanol production cheap and astoundingly plentiful, it'll always come out backwards.

I've yet to see also why it's "environmentally friendly" to deliberately make your car get worse fuel economy by using the stuff either...

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I would like to know how it can be designed to burn quicker? any technical explanation.

V-Power high density. Ethanol low density?

BTW V8-Supercars run fine when tuned to run on Sucrogen BioEthanol.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by bbcoupe

I've been using United 100 for over 3 years in my 545ci XBGT, I changed to it when avgas became to difficult to obtain.

Starting, cruising and highway driving is great. 1/4 mile times always improving with a best of 10.82.

I will only buy it from the renovated/new stations and also those that have more traffic through them to try and avoid the potential storage dramas.

I think that is the biggest problem facing it,

for the record the time I tried and failed on 100 it was a high traffic servo, the united at eagle hawk just as you come in to canberra, BUT it is an older station so the tanks may not be of the highest quality, I have know idea on the other servos used by friends that had poor experiances

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

BTW V8-Supercars run fine when tuned to run on Sucrogen BioEthanol.

um yes they do but what has this got to do with road cars?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

V-Power high density. Ethanol low density?

Sorry still doesn’t help me, I’m not even sure if burning quicker should be perceived as a negative.
I think VICFPV was trying to imply that its less efficient

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

um yes they do but what has this got to do with road cars?

What does it have to do with road cars? Pretty simple really.

Whether it be a road car, V8 supercar or alcohol fueled dragster, your car will return it's best performance when tuned to the fuel you are using. All three are tuned to give best performance with the different combinations of petrol and alcohol products in their tanks. Back in the olden days we would adjust the carburettor for standard or super for the same reason.

If your engine is tuned to run on 91RON, it will rarely return better fuel economy on 95RON, 98RON or 100RON, just as a V8 supercar would cough and splutter on 91RON.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Sorry still doesn’t help me, I’m not even sure if burning quicker should be perceived as a negative.
I think VICFPV was trying to imply that its less efficient

I believe that it is less efficient due to having less carbon atoms (but I ain't no chemist).

[noosacuda]

Originally Posted by yearby

Oh! I see everyone on the let's get rid of the ethanol fuel ride again, seems a little bit of knowlege is still too dangerous for some people.

Now, I might be showing my age here but, when I first started playing with hot cars we would go to the speed shop and buy some octane booster (in a can), then we would put it in the fuel tank when we filled up the car.

Now shock, horror, but that octane booster turned out to be 98% ethanol???????????

You still need to tune, set up, build the car/engine for ethanol/high octane fuel to get best performace, nothing has changed.

Regards Peter

Sorry mate, you're wrong, octane booster in the cans is NOT Ethanol, more like Tolulene.
IF an engine is built to run on high Ethanol fuel, eg Super Taxis, and all the fuel system is also built to handle it it will work fine,but as i said earlier, my car does not run efficiently on it and the price difference in it and 98 Ultimate does not make it economically viable for me to run it.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Sorry mate, you're wrong, octane booster in the cans is NOT Ethanol, more like Tolulene. .

I think Tolulene is old school - mid-80s?
Naphtha petroleum (hydrodesulfurised) >60% in Nulon; Kerosene (hydrodesulfurised) > 80% in Wynns; Naphtha petroleum (hydrodesulfurised) >60% in Liqui-Moly;

Originally Posted by noosacuda

IF an engine is built to run on high Ethanol fuel, eg Super Taxis, and all the fuel system is also built to handle it it will work fine,but as i said earlier, my car does not run efficiently on it and the price difference in it and 98 Ultimate does not make it economically viable for me to run it.

+1

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

I believe that it is less efficient due to having less carbon atoms (but I ain't no chemist).

Ive searched for an answer to this but can only conclude its speculation until I see something concrete.
compared to V-power it probably is, but by a similar margin that V-power is more expensive.

[noosacuda]

Old school trick was mothballs (napthalene) in your fuel tank of super. (Don't think it'll work with unleaded though)

[The Yeti]

Tolulene

LOL remember when the shonky servos were adding this to fuel becasue it was cheaper than petrol so they could make more $$$ and all the current affeairs shows named and shamed

just funny is all

as you were

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Old school trick was mothballs (napthalene) in your fuel tank of super. (Don't think it'll work with unleaded though)

I remember that one! Used to be guys around who swore by it.

One thing with toluene is to not come into contact with it too often...it accumulates in the body and isn't "flushed out" by normal body processes, and eventually damages the heart muscle especially. Been a lot of spray painters over the years with heart problems at a young age that was traced back t toluene in some paints (including, oddly enough, model spray paints for things like plastic kits and RC planes and the like)

[falconnut]

+1 for BP Ultimate.
98 gives a nice power boost over 95 and 91 and more economy too.

United 100 is overpriced and doesnt really have anything that 98 doesnt, apart from more limited availability.

[red_hotxr6]

Excuse my ignorance, but arent all fuels of the same rating, the same. I mean, isnt bp ultimate the same as shell v-power??? 98 ron?? Just different companies??

[falconnut]

depends on the age of the fuel and how clean the tanks/pumps are.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Ive searched for an answer to this but can only conclude its speculation until I see something concrete.
compared to V-power it probably is, but by a similar margin that V-power is more expensive.

The simple fact is ethanol contains 68% of the stored energy of normal unleaded fuel. Put it into google and you will find your answers.

[red_hotxr6]

Ok, fair enough, i just see a lot of threads here where bp ultimate is referred to alot....

[cobramania]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Ive searched for an answer to this but can only conclude its speculation until I see something concrete.
compared to V-power it probably is, but by a similar margin that V-power is more expensive.

Going back to your original question about burning quicker, that was the wrong word to use. Ethanol has less energy per unit of fuel than Unleaded petrol of the same measure, which means you have to use more of it to obtain the same energy (power & distance per litre).
I've looked around for some easy to understand technical details, but found the Wiki entry is about the easiest to understand & is pretty much spot on the mark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel Read the Fuel economy part, & also note the Air Pollution part, it's not terribly environmentally friendly, burning it emits 19% more Carbon Dioxide than the equivalent amount of petrol. Labor/Greens Government will be putting the Carbon Tax on E10 petrol & fazing it's use out soon, if they really cared about the environment.
Ethanol is Hygroscopic, & thus water content in Ethanol blended fuels can also be a major problem if not stored & used correctly & reasonably fast, (also explained in Wiki). All petrol station fuel tanks are vented to the atmosphere, therefor E10 petrol will attract & absorb water out of the air into the underground storage tanks. The levels of water in the fuel should be closely monitored by the servo staff, but often isn't.

[Killaxb]

Theres 2 types of united fuel.. Theres e10 the green rubbish an theres a new purple 100 octaine. The 100 octaine seems to be pretty good

[my_gxl]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

V-Power high density. Ethanol low density?

BTW V8-Supercars run fine when tuned to run on Sucrogen BioEthanol.

They use a lot more of it, which means extra fuel stops.

Then there is the issue of getting away from stationary in the pits.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Ive searched for an answer to this but can only conclude its speculation until I see something concrete.
compared to V-power it probably is, but by a similar margin that V-power is more expensive.

If you fill flush the fuel tank, fill it with V-Power (or Ultimate), chuck your car on a dyno, and re-tune the ECU to take advantage of the higher octane and denser fuel; you will certainly have a car that drives better, cleaner, uses less fuel and costs less per km to run so long as you continue to run with V-Power (or Ultimate). Caveat - some cars cannot be tuned to take advantage.

However, if you have a car like our Astra TR GL which is tuned for 91RON, putting V-Power (or Ultimate) in the tank makes almost no difference to performance or economy but will clean the fuel system due to the detergents in their formulation. When V-Power first hit the market in Australia there were claims that it was causing problems due to so much crap in the fuel system being freed up. Like many others, I run a couple of tank fulls through at each service just to clean things up.

One analogy between ethanol and petroleum might be to look at the difference between LPG and petroleum. Same principle.

[cobramania]

Something I've noticed among the number of Ethanol blended fuel threads is, many people seem to be confused with the Octane rating of the fuels, thinking a higher RON or octane, means it's a higher performance fuel, when in fact that is not the case.

The octane rating is only to do with the point at which the fuel ignites, a higher octane fuel can handle higher compression & higher temperatures before it ignites. High performance engines are usually high compression & therefore have to use fuels with a higher octane rating & I think that's where the confusion is coming in.

United 100 is not a higher performance fuel than United 98. The laws of physics state you can't get more energy out than what you put in.
A tank of United 100 will have less energy contained in it, therefore giving you less performance power, than a tank of United 98, because 10% of it is Ethanol which contains less energy than if it was 100% Unleaded petrol.
Using other substances to increase the fuel density (or energy content) usually also increase the RON, above the base fuel of 91 or 95 RON (such as BP Ultimate).
It's actually the higher compression & temperature values, in a high performance engine that give you the extra performance, not the Ethanol increased octane rating.
Using a e10 100 RON fuel in a non turbo, supercharged or high compression engine, is going to give you less power & performance than if you just used 98 RON fuel. Same with e10 Unleaded over regular unleaded fuels. Using a 95 or 98 RON non Ethanol blend fuel in a car designed/tuned to run 91 RON, will give you increased power & distance (fuel efficiency/economy) due to the higher density or energy content it contains.