Holden down days - Page 2

prydey · 30-09-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Judging by the fact they now no longer bother advertising Falcon I think they will go down with barely a whimper. Where did the fight go?

ahh the irony. a thread about how holden are on the same path, not selling cars, reducing the workforce, down days etc.... all this from a company that everyone praises for how they are so active in their promotion of their vehicles on tv etc.

spend millions on advt and have the sales continue the same trend (down) or spend the money advertising the products that are selling whilst using a more targeted approach with the ailing large car!! i know which one looks smarter.

Bossxr8 · 30-09-2012, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

ahh the irony. a thread about how holden are on the same path, not selling cars, reducing the workforce, down days etc.... all this from a company that everyone praises for how they are so active in their promotion of their vehicles on tv etc.

spend millions on advt and have the sales continue the same trend (down) or spend the money advertising the products that are selling whilst using a more targeted approach with the ailing large car!! i know which one looks smarter.

Haven't really seen much in the way of Commodore ads lately either, but the things so old I can't really see it make much difference. But just see the ad blitz they launch when they have new product (VF).

Ford released FGII and didn't even advertise it.

Ford spent heaps advertising Focus and thats not selling very well, have to cut the RRP to move them. Money well spent?

At least Holden are trying.

prydey · 30-09-2012, 10:48 PM

so..

you don't see evidence of ford marketing so therefore they are not trying. to be fair, that is your opinion.

my opinion is, ford ARE trying, but they are having to be a bit smarter/more frugal about it as they don't have a money tree to the same degree that holden do.

this isn't really about ford though. this is a thread highlighting that the large car segment (which most of us pro ford people have known for a while) is down as a whole. its not really the products that are the problem.

Joe5619 · 01-10-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

this is a thread highlighting that the large car segment (which most of us pro ford people have known for a while) is down as a whole. its not really the products that are the problem.

Actually this topic has nothing to do with the slowing of the large car segment. The small built cruise is just as much to blame for these down days at Holden as the commodore!!

You want to explain why the curise is down in a segment that is up?? That can only be product!!

jpd80 · 01-10-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Actually this topic has nothing to do with the slowing of the large car segment. The small built cruise is just as much to blame for these down days at Holden as the commodore!!

You want to explain why the curise is down in a segment that is up?? That can only be product!!

I have a feeling that nothing is doing across both Ford and Holden, there's just no buyers at the moment
and Holden is starting employee pricing deals as of this Wednesday, so you can bet stock is mounting up.

Holden have only recently rebalanced to 400(?)/day which is still over 8,000/ mth production
so unless Holden sales are around 3,400 commodore, 3,400 cruze and 1200 Caprice (incl exports)
I recon Holden would be seeing massive pile ups of stock...it only takes 2 or 3 low months
and one week stoppage = 2,000 cars that don't get added to the pile, very simple maths...

Road_Warrior · 01-10-2012, 12:46 PM

The problem for any car maker in Australia is that the new car market here is so fragmented and diverse. Here you have a piddling market (compared with say the US, China or Europe) but with more brands and vehicle types on offer than any of those places. This is demonstrated by the fact that the current top seller in Australia sells at numbers that are half of or even a third of what the Commodore and Falcon sold in their heyday.

jpd80 · 01-10-2012, 01:30 PM

Exactly, our smallish market demands diversity and thanks to the huge range of brands
and thanks to those well stoked showrooms, those buyers are being well catered for..

prydey · 01-10-2012, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Actually this topic has nothing to do with the slowing of the large car segment. The small built cruise is just as much to blame for these down days at Holden as the commodore!!

You want to explain why the curise is down in a segment that is up?? That can only be product!!

to me its simple. loyalty to the badge only lasts so long. the cruze(not cruise) is in a cut throat segment, and i doubt holden can match the pricing of the imports and still make money. there is a reason why ford and toyota don't make small cars in australia.

i have no idea of the features etc of cars in the small segment, but most reviews i skim through, the cruze isn't exactly setting the pace either.

bobthebilda · 01-10-2012, 02:13 PM

Holden arent getting rid of employees. They are making all Australians a Holden employee by offering employee pricing on certain vehicles.

http://www.holden.com.au/latestoffers

Last time I got spoke to a Holden employee, the discount amounted to 22.5%. Does that mean we should be able to get base model cruzes for $17000 drive away and SV6's for about $28,000??

pursuit2359 · 01-10-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Holden arent getting rid of employees. They are making all Australians a Holden employee by offering employee pricing on certain vehicles.

http://www.holden.com.au/latestoffers

Last time I got spoke to a Holden employee, the discount amounted to 22.5%. Does that mean we should be able to get base model cruzes for $17000 drive away and SV6's for about $28,000??

I could believe that sort of discount on a Commodore, but not for the Cruze - margins on small cars are much lower.

Resurrection · 01-10-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

There's not too many interior parts being carried over.

True. But it is the V6 drivetrain which is the weakness as it has neither class leading performance or class leading economy. And this is what Holden will continue with until 2016? Expect their sales to remain stagnant.

dimka100 · 01-10-2012, 05:45 PM

The car is just getting far too old now, in fact I can't think of any cars out there that after 6 years with virtually no updates would still maintain their original sales momentum ...

Holden needs the VF as soon as possible, once its out I'm sure the sales numbers will rebound ... Whats really amassing is how they still manage to outsell the Falcon by a long shot and that's considering its a much older model than had no virtually no development/updates done over the 6 year period!

dimka100 · 01-10-2012, 05:49 PM

Really, whats wrong with the V6 drivetrain???

It's almost certain the VF will come out with the updated LFX engine! That produces up to 240Kw and 380nm of torque on some USA models already, thats not to say Australia will get the same power level but the potential is clearly there. Thats on top of the engine being easily Euro5+ compliant something the I6 can only dream about for the time being.

On top of that the car will loose 100Kg+ of weight ... where exactly is the weakness again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

True. But it is the V6 drivetrain which is the weakness as it has neither class leading performance or class leading economy. And this is what Holden will continue with until 2016? Expect their sales to remain stagnant.

Road_Warrior · 01-10-2012, 06:06 PM

To be honest, the only people who will pick up on the carry over drive train is us nerds and motoring scribes. The average punter will fall for it hook line and sinker with Holden's brilliant marketing which will spin it as an all-new car.

And besides, they could always call upon that 223kw version of the HFV6 that is in the Camaro (LLT or the LFX).

jpd80 · 01-10-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

Really, whats wrong with the V6 drivetrain???

It's almost certain the VF will come out with the updated LFX engine! That produces up to 240Kw and 380nm of torque on some USA models already, thats not to say Australia will get the same power level but the potential is clearly there. Thats on top of the engine being easily Euro5+ compliant something the I6 can only dream about for the time being.

On top of that the car will loose 100Kg+ of weight ... where exactly is the weakness again?

There's also a good chance that the LF3 Twin Turbo 3.0 V6 will make an appearance later in VF production.

Euro 3 to Euro 4 was the big jump, getting from Euro 4 to 5 to 6 is much smaller increments,
Ford would not have gone with I-6 for remaining product if it couldn't be easily upgraded to Euro 5.

Road_Warrior · 01-10-2012, 06:53 PM

I don't reckon they'll go for a turbo 6 John. V8's are too important to Holden and with the amount of market analysis they do, they know full well how the T6 has "done in" the Falcon V8 (XR8 and lux spec anyway).

jpd80 · 01-10-2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

The car is just getting far too old now, in fact I can't think of any cars out there that after 6 years with virtually no updates would still maintain their original sales momentum ...

Holden needs the VF as soon as possible, once its out I'm sure the sales numbers will rebound ... Whats really amassing is how they still manage to outsell the Falcon by a long shot and that's considering its a much older model than had no virtually no development/updates done over the 6 year period!

I'm sorry but you just buried the BS meter....Holden has regularly updated the VE throughout its life,
the one area they haven't touched has been the exterior of the car, something about to be remedied next year.

The only area falcon and Commodore compete is in fleet sales, both have seen significant falls of late...

Buntz · 04-10-2012, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm sorry but you just buried the BS meter....Holden has regularly updated the VE throughout its life,
the one area they haven't touched has been the exterior of the car, something about to be remedied next year.

The only area falcon and Commodore compete is in fleet sales, both have seen significant falls of late...

New transmissions and engines. But nothing chassis wise. Still same old MacP fronts, and ML rears.

Were I a voice of reason at GMH, I'd have gone with a tophat over the cadillac ATS, with Aus development. Problem solved. (except for V8's... )

Go 2014 Falcon