China to build new commodore

[The FOMOCO]

Originally Posted by csv8

Bring in the Impala and badge it Commodore ???

LOL LOL LOL Don't say things like that youll confuse the Holden bogans

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

我對你多少你的中國統治者內置前輪驅動狗屎箱熱烈歡迎

I told you how much your Chinese rulers built-in front-wheel drive dog feces tank warm welcome

???

[GTP-RPD]

You get a bag of fortune cookies in every Chinese built commodore.

[Dodge]

ow nu conador cum wif steam wice cooka and chop stick holda best price 50 dolla luv u wong time

[Outbackjack]

Football, meat pies, kangaroo's and Chinese cars!!

[jpd80]

Wow, talk about twisting the knife...

An imported Chinese car wearing the Holden badge and Commodore name, CHINADORE?
Way to rub Holden fan's noses in it, Ford would never do that to Falcon's memory...

This to me is truly disgusting and I hope every Holden fan boycotts purchase of any more VFs
close the plant now and kill the Holden name rather than belittling Australian manufacturing history this way.


An AWD Taurus with Ecoboost V6 suddenly looks so much better...

[Bossxr8]

GM spitting in the face of their soon to be non fans?

If GM think they can shovel this crap off as a Commodore then they are an even stupider, more poorly run company than even I thought they were.

[jpd80]

There is a top poster on GM Inside news.com, an Aussie who contributes heavily there with lots of valuable information,
you could not get a more informative source on all things Holden, specially behind the scenes stuff.
I've come to admire the depth of knowledge and respect his opinion even though it has been at odds with mine.


I'm going to repost this here for all to see, I think it sums up a lot of what Holden fans are feeling...

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

There's an alternate view - which is GM blew Holden out of the water with on-again, off-again Zeta and other 'we do things this way in GM' decisions and limits to flexibiiity which served Holden well and kept it relevant to our market. The last GM2800 V-car the VZ, was never meant to be.

It featured an under-developed/unrefined HFV6 which prematurely blighted that motor in base cars and still is today. It let Ford back to challenge for market leadership plus Toyota in large cars.

It was released to hold the line for eighteen months because GM removed Holden's R&D funds in 2005 and caused the near-total sacking of R&D staff (Mooney) which meant VE was delayed more than a year with Caprice and decontented (4-speed autos) and killed vital VE variants like AWD and Crewcab, and almost the wagon and Ute which were delayed again by more than a year - 2007/8 instead of 2006.

You hand that market share to others, it's hard to win back. VE should have been out in 2005, not late 2006. VF should have been out 2011. That's the 6y cadence of car cycles here, so buyers have a reason to upgrade and not three times into the same car. Neither VE or VF are as developed as Holden envisaged - I suspect those features will 'turn up' in Omega. Holden were playing with magnesium and titanium back in the early 2000s - oh look, Alpha has a magnesium engine cradle.

Like Ford blew Australia out of the water with the Taurus-styled Falcon. Handed market lead to Holden, cost them proper long cars, a new wagon - sounds familiar. Part of the reason big cars have gone out of style, is the big cars available started to lose the specialness - Holden and Ford. Again, lose the market, it's gone for good.

I don't always agree with Golfbravo, but letting GM Europe 'handle' Opel is what cost Opel exports to Australia, a 40k unit market and saddled Holden with sub-par Daewoo small cars in 2006, which are only now, 6 years late, coming up to par - too late. $400m of Holden's recent losses were 1. paper loss on G8 business 2. paper loss on moving factory from two shifts to one. And a lot of that is tracable back to GM decisions. Reuss saved Holden in GFC, Devereux tried to honestly interest the country and nearly did it. Both of them did try. GM just lacked vision.

The Cruze as released in 2008 was barely adequate - passed on safety failed on most other things. Holden turned it into something else - without the high dollar and limits to build numbers due to one shift i.e. often you cann't find one at a dealers or to test drive, when Hyundai Toyota, Mazda all have cars brimming, could have been even better.

Truth is, GM can't handle a small dynamic unit in a changing market. Even their own expat US staff I spoke to were amazed what Holden could do - witness HSV outselling Cadillacand Chevrolet Corvettes and Camaros combined (and Mustangs) every year in Europe they've all been on sales just on HSV sales in England - and Holden/HSV are not a natural fit there, either. BMW doesn't behave like GM, it moves rapidly to fill emerging niches or create new ones. GM is just behaving like the Toyota of America.

[ozpacman]

I can see the advertising now:

"New HSV - I just wonton!"

[1TUFFUTE]

Good post jpd...might look that site up. I'm all for good sources......so when I quote something innocently and get bagged for lying.....it's fun rubbing it in their faces with good quoted sources. (Happens a lot). Eg. The failed Pontiac G8 export deal who some believe a flying success despite the FACTS!

There sure has been ALOT of Holden bagging and negative discussions of late....all totally justified tho. GMH and Holden truely are being exposed as extremely incompetent at manufacturing cars.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Good post jpd...might look that site up. I'm all for good sources......so when I quote something innocently and get bagged for lying.....it's fun rubbing it in their faces with good quoted sources. (Happens a lot). Eg. The failed Pontiac G8 export deal who some believe a flying success despite the FACTS!

There sure has been ALOT of Holden bagging and negative discussions of late....all totally justified tho. GMH and Holden truely are being exposed as extremely incompetent at manufacturing cars.

Some of that bagging may in fact be misdirected at Holden when the real venom for stuffed up decisions should be laid at the feet of GM....

I am far more critical of GM than Holden hwo have received the short end of the stick for close on eight years now,
they took a $400 million bath on G8 spread over two years because GMNA shuttered Pontiac.
G8 should have always been a Chevrolet, preferentially Lumina like the middle East car but GMNA
was fearful that the Zeta would rob Impala of too many sales...

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Some of that bagging may in fact be misdirected at Holden when the real venom for stuffed up decisions should be laid at the feet of GM....

I am far more critical of GM than Holden hwo have received the short end of the stick for close on eight years now,
they took a $400 million bath on G8 spread over two years because GMNA shuttered Pontiac.
G8 should have always been a Chevrolet, preferentially Lumina like the middle East car but GMNA
was fearful that the Zeta would rob Impala of too many sales...

That's the thing tho...it's one company...not GMH and Holden.....same as ford. And either way it's still seen as a fail to Australian export. But that was just a small eg! What the tiny little Holden wants to make them look good in Australia no doubt has bigger effects to other areas and markets they play in.
I agree about being more critical of GM tho.

[robertjp]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

我對你多少你的中國統治者內置前輪驅動狗屎箱熱烈歡迎

我以為他們把狗變成昏暗的模擬人生！

[P6LTD351]

Yeah I don't get this Holden and GM being separate. They are not. It's all GM.

Holden died when it finished making car bodies for other makers. From then on, it's been GM and Holden in name only. When 'Holden' finish manufacturing in this country, this will be more obvious to people. Holden will be the name of a company that imports and distributes goods from overseas. You know, like continental delis import foreign food and rename them as a local brand. At least Ford is Ford wherever you go.

[twodogs]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Wow, talk about twisting the knife...

An imported Chinese car wearing the Holden badge and Commodore name, CHINADORE?
Way to rub Holden fan's noses in it, Ford would never do that to Falcon's memory...

This to me is truly disgusting and I hope every Holden fan boycotts purchase of any more VFs
close the plant now and kill the Holden name rather than belittling Australian manufacturing history this way.


An AWD Taurus with Ecoboost V6 suddenly looks so much better...

I recently bought an FG MkII XR6 and a lot of it is made in China

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by twodogs

I recently bought an FG MkII XR6 and a lot of it is made in China

Fg's are 70% local content... So less than 30% is imported. Pretty sure the mirrors are from Europe somewhere.

[Maka]

Its interesting to read BBDOS CV8 's take on the situation especially the hobbling...... pretty appalling really, obviously just not restricted to one car maker.



cheers, Maka

[stevz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There is a top poster on GM Inside news.com, an Aussie who contributes heavily there with lots of valuable information,
you could not get a more informative source on all things Holden, specially behind the scenes stuff.
I've come to admire the depth of knowledge and respect his opinion even though it has been at odds with mine.


I'm going to repost this here for all to see, I think it sums up a lot of what Holden fans are feeling...

Not much to say really... The yanks killed Holden just like they killed Ford Australia through poor management, backward thinking and terrible decisions.
Could you imagine what Holden and Ford Australia could have been with some decent management?

[FGX-351]

Insult to injury.
If it's released as a Commodore I don't believe(and hope it doesn't) sell.

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by stevz

Not much to say really... The yanks killed Holden just like they killed Ford Australia through poor management, backward thinking and terrible decisions.
Could you imagine what Holden and Ford Australia could have been with some decent management?

Apart from us being such a small market with a high dollar I tend to agree with the above.
Things could've been run so much better.

All thats left now is to brace ourselves for the worst.........and hope Clive Palmer purchases either company! lol

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by stevz

Not much to say really... The yanks killed Holden just like they killed Ford Australia through poor management, backward thinking and terrible decisions.
Could you imagine what Holden and Ford Australia could have been with some decent management?

As crappy as the management for both have been, and they have certainly been bad at times, no amount of good management could get them around the very unique circumstances facing local manufacturing.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

Insult to injury.
If it's released as a Commodore I don't believe(and hope it doesn't) sell.

As with all things reported in the media, I will believe it when I see it, but GM would have to have incredible nerve and contempt for its supporters and customers in Australia to even consider passing some Chinese built fwd abomination as a Commodore.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

Not much to say really... The yanks killed Holden just like they killed Ford Australia through poor management, backward thinking and terrible decisions.
Could you imagine what Holden and Ford Australia could have been with some decent management?

Still shutting up shop.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Ewwww. What a joke....really....a fwd 4cyl large commadore. Can't see that selling well.

I didn't think Great wall or chery would sell well, but there was enough stupid australians to prove me wrong.
Driving enthusiasts may not like it, but seems most blokes do what their wives say and buy a slug-box instead of something with a soul.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Still shutting up shop.

I beg to differ.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Wow, talk about twisting the knife...

An imported Chinese car wearing the Holden badge and Commodore name, CHINADORE?
Way to rub Holden fan's noses in it, Ford would never do that to Falcon's memory...

This to me is truly disgusting and I hope every Holden fan boycotts purchase of any more VFs
close the plant now and kill the Holden name rather than belittling Australian manufacturing history this way.


An AWD Taurus with Ecoboost V6 suddenly looks so much better...

I dont get the outrage, are we too good for Chinese cars, are they unworthy to build us cars? End of the day it was just a family runabout with an American motor...this passion seems misplaced.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

I beg to differ.

So...Australia's local market conditions, wage's, manufacturing costs, government polices have nothing to do with it?

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So...Australia's local market conditions, wage's, manufacturing costs, government polices have nothing to do with it?

Of course, but they would have been in a better position to ride it out until better economic conditions returned.

[UberKnee]

The GM/Ford hate is ridiculous. Everyone is acting like this American based global companies should have put Australia first, catered to us and looked after us first and foremost. That would have just been stupid. We're a tiny populous in the middle of nowhere that contributed less than a quarter of a percent of the worlds car manufacturing. Rightfully so GM and Ford looked after their biggest selling markets first, taking care of America first and foremost. Australia isn't the center of the universe, all we do is dig up gold and send iron ore to China.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

Of course, but they would have been in a better position to ride it out until better economic conditions returned.

Unfortunately, global business doesn't work like this...you can't go on for years on the hope that desirable economic conditions make return.