Mitsubishi acts to remedy 380 botch

[buickman]

Originally Posted by Ringo

What is this talk of the 300c.....they have sold a couple of hundred of the suckers....big deal.

The big big fleets couldn't care less about FWD or RWD. The care about safety equipment (OH+S) and lease costs and minimising financial risk

I think they are taking a big share of the Fairlane & ltd sales

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by brenx

They've realised the error of their ways with the E Gas Falcon though. They can't fit 5 people and their court documents in the car.

Cant get 5 and docos in a falcon? Why not? and what WILL fit them in?

[merlin]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Cant get 5 and docos in a falcon? Why not? and what WILL fit them in?

I think he is talking about the diminished boot space due to the gas tank? Though we took a BA LPG falcon from Sydney to Falls Creek with 4 people, 2 weeks worth of luggage and two sets of skis withough any hassles...

[brenx]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Cant get 5 and docos in a falcon? Why not? and what WILL fit them in?

A Falcon without a massive gas tank in it. They don't have a deep enough boot for the boxes the court documents are stored in. The spare wheel is in the way apparently. I've been lucky enough to not have to drive one.

[merlin]

Re: The Magna (I mean 380). Styling has killed the thing. We are performance enthusiasts and consider more than just looks in a car but most buyers go on looks first of all (then delve deeper).

It all started with the last model - great car but so ugly (ala AU Falcon). Then they had the chance to turn it around with the 380 and release a car that styling wise is also pretty horrid if you ask me. Hence rotten resales. Ford turned it around with the BA, Mitsu have stuffed up, I don't think anything they do short of a whole new look will save them.

[Mark351]

Fleets won't touch the 380 because they are scared of being burnt alive by crappy resale (well, crappier than Falcon/Commodore). 300Cs will sell well to fleets due to a perceived higher resale.

[4Vman]

Sorry but RWD 6cyl in a large base model family sedan is as Australian as a meat pie with sauce...

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by brenx

The buyer has learned from the prior V6 magna's. Most once they drive one will figure out it's driving from the front wheels. A fwd heavy car will destroy the front tyres pretty rapidly too.

Rotate the tyres and you will find that they'll last far longer than on a Falcon.

[4Vman]

Its a proven fact that its more efficient to "Push" the car with the rear wheels than "pull" it from the front wheels.
Drive a FWD car on a muddy or gravel road and see how easy it is to get bogged compared to a RWD.
Tow something with any weight and a FWD becomes quite dangerous compared to the RWD, most family cars need to be veristile enough to tow or go a bit off road, so RWD is chosen.
FWD exists only to save money in manufacturing, and its issues or compromises are far less noticable with small 4cyl cars.

[max]

IMO the Camry is uglier than the 380, but they seem to sell OK. I think the 380 failure is all about fuel cost issues, and a company which the public perceives as down on its luck. I don't think Tom Phillips should have walked before the 380 launch. That did not look good.

[XPcoupe]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Which is why it has four? Ford, Holden, Toyota, Mitsubishi.

The 380 is a heap. It's no better then the Magna it replaced, it was too expensive, though they might fix that... and some parts are very ugly...(whoever designed its steering wheel needs a punch to the face).

As it stands... Falcon, Commodore... and its biggest rival, Camry > 380.

The Avalon died years ago. and the Camry is not even near a large car.

[Fairlane]

You got to understand though that FWD cars, are more efficient (and the yanks love them in the snow) for what they are and FWD is a 'safer' vehicle for 90% of the population, people dont now how to handle oversteer very well. They are more spacious and quieter than its RWD alternatives. Really only 20% of people out there care that a cars RWD and haveing the 380 cater to the RWD would get **** all sales, how many would forgo a RWD Holden/Ford for a a 380, only a few even if it was a RWD 380. Mitsubihsi would be better off in concentrating on murdering the Camry and Mazda 6 market.

Ultimately AWD is the future, there is no way in a million years that mitsu will go RWD, no way. It may go AWD again and i for one pray it does, FWD and RWD will die out and AWD will be the way to go, most likely through transverse mounted setups, ie. Ford Fusion

Really the 380 is just the right car at the wrong time, if it had of been released in mid 2002 to replace the TJ it would have sold well, but as it is its in trouble, it needs the Mitsu 2.4L and major fleet sales to win, there is some hope, if the new 4cyl Toyota Camry isnt all its made out to be, it may yet suceed.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Theres a facelift on the way im told, Mitsubishi will be putting more thing standard in the 380 and also carrying the VRX boot/tailights across the range. The Rear bumper is too bummy.

As for them spending 600 million.. BULLИИИИ..

Ford Spent that on the BA and built it from the ground up based on the AUs platform, all mitsubishi did here was stole some overseas Galants and restyled the front and rear, the steering wheel and interior is basically idetical, as for the V6 they are fully imported now to and not designed or manufactured here like the Ford I6.

Mitsubish are rooted... its only a matter of months before they finish up the 380 for good, sad but extremely true from the rumours in the motoring industry. Dealers have given up on the car and are currently having large battles with mitsubishi about where they are to go, i know one dealer thats trying to reduce its 380 allocation as it does not have the space to store anymore.. Dealers are trying to live off Commercial sales and small cars like the Lancer, which also is taking a beating as of late..

Theres nothing left in the Mitsubishi range which sells well, The Pajero is dated and sells no where as much as it use to in the early 90's, the 380/Magnas a flop, and the Lancers dieing. The Triton is now outdated, (10 years old, and the same goes for the Express Vans. As for the Outlander and Colt neither are selling well due to competition in their particular markets. Mitsubishis biggest competition is Toyota, and if they dont smarten up their range soon then they wont exist..

[coyote]

My biggest concern is that if Mitsubishi does not get it's act into gear it will all fall in a heap and there will be a whole lot less parts of cars made here in Australia.

The less parts made here , the less efficent the whole parts industry will be, the less efficient they are the less parts they will be able to sell to Ford, the less Australian designed and made parts in the Falcon the less competitive it will be if there are fluctuations in the Aussie $,

One severe bout, and lack of comercial success for the brand for a quater or two and we won't have a Aussie Falcon to follow the current batch.

Buy your kids a Job, Buy Aussie Made & support Aussie owned when you can, that way there will be jobs here for all of us.

[Paxton]

MITSUBISHI Australia has again slashed prices of its 380 V6 sedan in an effort to reinvigorate sales. Today it cut $2000 off the price of its base Series II 380 ES sedan, while also taking the scalpel to VR-X, LX and GT pricing.

The entry-level five-speed manual ES now starts at $27,990, with the five-speed automatic adding $2000 without any loss of equipment.

The company has clearly sent a signal to its key large-car rivals, while also taking aim at several four-cylinder Japanese offerings.

The new pricing will be a permanent offering and is part of a new marketing and sales push to drive sales, according to Mitsubishi Australia chief executive officer, Rob McEniry.

Mr McEniry said the ES model would maintain its existing equipment levels.

The price cut represents a saving of $6500 on the ES since it was launched six months ago. When it was launched the base model was $34,490.

The VR-X, LX and GT also offer significant savings of between $1500 for the VR-X, $3000 for the LX and $3500 for the GT.

The $40,990 LS has been dropped, replaced by a sporty SX model priced at $32,990 for the five-speed manual.The company says it has been able to deliver the cuts by trimming dealer margins in an effort to end discounting and bolster the car’s reputation. Those buyers who have just bought a 380 will not miss out either.

In an effort to maintain buyer loyalty, Mr McEniry said the company would offer rebates to buyers who bought the 380 ES at the old price.

Up to 1500 retail buyers will be eligible for $2000 cash-back or the equivalent in goodwill from dealers.

Some fleet owners would also be eligible.

Although Mr McEniry would not disclose how much this would cost, GoAuto believes it is more than $2 million. Rebates will also vary depending on what prices had been paid.

Apart from 380 price cuts, the company has also taken the scalpel to pricing on other passenger vehicles.

MMAL have killed off a model, re-released the Sports model as the SX, and dropped the pricing on All models. They stack up as sensational value.

380 sedan:
ES - $27,990
ES (a) - $29,990
SX - $32,990
SX (a) - $34,990
VRX - $36,990
VRX (a) - $38,990
LX (a) - $42,990
GT (a) - $44,990

Taken from: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25715D001171D2

[turboute]

Originally Posted by Ringo

What is this talk of the 300c.....they have sold a couple of hundred of the suckers....big deal.

The big big fleets couldn't care less about FWD or RWD. The care about safety equipment (OH+S) and lease costs and minimising financial risk

They sold out of a couple of hundred suckers... I heard that there is getting to be a rather long waiting list for them. esp the V8's.

The other thing that fleets care about is resale value which does have alot to do with what the public want. If most of us had the choice to spend an extra 2-3k for a RWD we would, even if the cars were origionally the same price. So I a company could sell the 10 cars they want to get rid of for 2-3k more then they get 20-30k more back in total, which makes a big difference.

[Rob]

I took a 380 for a drive recently, it was very nice... couldnt complain about the handling and dynamics for everyday driving. Having a punt, you'd probably notice the FWD issue, but really, its a good car. My biggest gripe was the lack of visual cues to identify different models. HSV/FPV visually very different to the bread and butter cars. 380 GT isnt.. chrome on the tail lights and nice rims do not a GT make...

Still, I really hope MMAL comes through, competition is a wonderful thing.

[sphell]

I agree that besides its looks, sticking to FWD has killed the 380. Buyers in the 'big 6' market are one of the most clued up bunch of mofo's around when it comes to buying a car. They like agressive looking cars, RWD, big engine capacities and lots of kilowatts.

For example, I was initally impressed by the Toyota Aurion's looks/specs until I took a peek under the chassis at the motor show and saw that it was FWD. Now it just doesn't interest me. I've driven plenty of FWD car's and I just don't like them.

[Poetic Justice]

The way I see it, is if the base model 380 looked more like the GT model, it'd sell a whole lot more.

Base model 380 is just butt ugly and nothing is desirable about it.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XPcoupe

The Avalon died years ago. and the Camry is not even near a large car.

Dimensons...

Ford Falcon BF

Length: 4916mm
Width: 1864mm
Height: 1444mm
Wheelbase: 2829mm

Holden Commodore VZ:

Length: 4876mm
Width: 1842mm
Height: 1440mm
Wheelbase: 2789mm

Mitsubishi 380 DB:

Length: 4837mm
Width: 1840mm
Height: 1480mm
Wheelbase: 2750mm

Toyota Camry MCV36R

Length: 4830mm
Width: 1795mm
Height: 1490mm
Wheelbase: 2720mm

I don't know where the perception that the Camry is not a large car comes from, but I can assure you it is quite false.

[pks54]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Do you really think these people know/care if its FWD or RWD, V6 or I6?

Originally Posted by XPcoupe

I agree, the swinging voter, that looks at different brands/models does not care if it is FWD or RWD, it is all about the look and keeping up with the Jone's. why do people buy a brand of car.

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I honestly believe most buyers (esp fleets) DONT care or even know if a car is FWD vs RWD.

Most people say its not the best looking car around i agree as well. but i want to point out something about the fwd bussiness. I see many pple that have a 380 as a company car, either work/friends/sales reps that come in etc. . everyone says the same thing, we always loved our previous ford/holden but i dont like the 380 as its not a rwd. and this is comming from ppl that are not car nuts whatsoever.....

think again, if you think that ppl dont care if its fwd or rwd in a big aussie car.

[Dave_au]

This is becoming quickly one of those rather infamous threads that probably only ends up serving to discredit FFAU.

Obvously the blue blood always runs strong on here, it is afterall FF, but I would have hoped personally for more of an open view rather than sudden discounting and uninformed view solely on own opinion without consideration of facts.

To those people who complain about the 380 being fwd, and that only rwd sells in large, there are plenty of other large FWD cars that we all seem to forget about:

Maxima
Accord
Accord Euro
Volvo
Camry
Saab
Hyundai Sonata
Mazda 6 (can argue this is a medium sized car, but the point remains)

Have a look at those sales and you'll see they dont do too badly. I'd also quite willingly argue that if the Falcon or the Commodore did switch to fwd, then yes they would lose some sales, but I doubt it would be that much. Afterall, with the way imports have been going these days, it would be safe to argue that there are more front wheel drive cars on the road than rear wheel drives.

Whoever mentioned the platinum sparkplugs, these are required to be changed every 100,000. Removing the intake manifold takes about 10 minutes for a qualified mechanic to do. And suprise suprise, most cars on the road are FWD and suffer the same problem. Additionally, tyres usage should not be an issue when the tyres are rotated at the correct intervals.

90% of the time RWD is pretty much just a marketing gimmic, you dont need rwd to drive from one side of the city to the other. Towing, yes its preferable but a 4wd would tow better. Performance wise, well yes, rwd is better, but how often do the majority of the cars on the road get pushed for performance? Hardly ever.

[460cixy]

Originally Posted by brenx

When will they learn. Nobody wants a big car thats front wheel drive! Make it rwd and sales will increase ;)

fwd is for small car shopping trolleys.

absolute bull if ever i heard it. i work for a ford dealer here. and i would say 95% of the punters wouldent know what wheels drove the car. fact is mitsibishi has the est name around and will ultamtily fail in australia because of it even tho ther cars are not any worse than a falcon or commie.

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

This is becoming quickly one of those rather infamous threads that probably only ends up serving to discredit FFAU.

Obvously the blue blood always runs strong on here, it is afterall FF, but I would have hoped personally for more of an open view rather than sudden discounting and uninformed view solely on own opinion without consideration of facts.

To those people who complain about the 380 being fwd, and that only rwd sells in large, there are plenty of other large FWD cars that we all seem to forget about:

Maxima
Accord
Accord Euro
Volvo
Camry
Saab
Hyundai Sonata
Mazda 6 (can argue this is a medium sized car, but the point remains)

Have a look at those sales and you'll see they dont do too badly. I'd also quite willingly argue that if the Falcon or the Commodore did switch to fwd, then yes they would lose some sales, but I doubt it would be that much. Afterall, with the way imports have been going these days, it would be safe to argue that there are more front wheel drive cars on the road than rear wheel drives.

Whoever mentioned the platinum sparkplugs, these are required to be changed every 100,000. Removing the intake manifold takes about 10 minutes for a qualified mechanic to do. And suprise suprise, most cars on the road are FWD and suffer the same problem. Additionally, tyres usage should not be an issue when the tyres are rotated at the correct intervals.

90% of the time RWD is pretty much just a marketing gimmic, you dont need rwd to drive from one side of the city to the other. Towing, yes its preferable but a 4wd would tow better. Performance wise, well yes, rwd is better, but how often do the majority of the cars on the road get pushed for performance? Hardly ever.

Both towing and performance are actually quite important to a large number of Falcon/Commodore owners.
I can say for sure that the level of grip and balance in my XR6T would not be possible if it were FWD and it gets pushed within responsible limits and the RWD config certainly is part of what makes the car.
There would be no way it could put 240Kw thru the front wheels.
There have been some definite torque steer issues with FWD turbos like SAAB for example and most FWD cars like mazda, Lancer and Volvo use 4WD for their performance cars.
If the Falcon changed to Fwd i think many people would be suprised and dismayed! lots of sales would be lost especially in the XR range.
But it seems the 380 is a competant car but just at the wrong time, many people would prefer Japanese imports to local FWD large sedans.

[brenx]

The fact remains that mitsubishi's 6cyl engines tend to expire much faster than it's competitors. That's a lot of $ wasted. There's plenty of very smokey 180,000-200,000k mitsu 6's. I get to see lots of the issue of various new cars inc Ford due to my state gov't job. I get a great insight in what I should buy but my budget eventually decides for me.

Fair enough most people don't seem to keep their cars a very long time but for me. It's something I consider. I dare say my Falcon will do around 400,000k's before it's in need of a rebuild.

Front wheel drive is for small cars. It should be left that way as it serves no purpose in Australia's climate. Although Mitsubishi do export there cars. It maybe relevant to another country.

In all seriousness I'd never own a fwd large car unless I turn grandpa. Even then it'd be a Toyota. I happily drive a fwd small car. In fact I do It ain't a mitsubishi though. It's a Mazda. The last small car prior to that was a Hyundai. Prior it was rwd small Fords. I've owned plenty of small Fords.

When my EL goes mistubishi won't even be a consideration. It'll either be a turbo diesel or a v8 on gas.

The only things the mitsubishi has going for it? Power but for how long and fuel economy. I found the fuel economy very good.

[brenx]

Originally Posted by 460cixy

absolute bull if ever i heard it. i work for a ford dealer here. and i would say 95% of the punters wouldent know what wheels drove the car. fact is mitsibishi has the est name around and will ultamtily fail in australia because of it even tho ther cars are not any worse than a falcon or commie.

The people you must meet must be pretty dumb. The women at my work know whether a car is fwd or rwd. I'd say that percentage would realistically be around 30% wouldn't know.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by xfalconz

Both towing and performance are actually quite important to a large number of Falcon/Commodore owners.

Not having a go mate, but how many falcons or commodores have tow balls? How many people even have a trailer that they regularly tow?

How many people take their cars to the track (or just as equally, lost their licence)?

I disagree with what your saying, I doubt that many people have an idea with what their driving, sometimes its just marketing, maybe they are wise enough to know its a rwd car that their in, but seriously, how much day to day driving do you honestly do where a rwd would have any advantage over a fwd.

We have to remember that we, as a forum of car enthusiasts, represent at most, probably less than 10% of the motoring public, and what car manufacturers sometimes love to do is to inspire the car enthusiast to rant and rave about a particular model, and just by viral influence, affect the majority of the motoring public. How many of us on here have had people saying to us "Fords suck because of XYZ". Well for years Ford and Holden have had car enthusiasts saying "FWD suck", but apart from honest track day performance, and the ability to tow a bit more, I honestly struggle to think where a FWD car would be of greater benefit to Joe Blow than a rwd car.

Yes, RWD cars handle the corners better 8/10, yes RWD has better power delivery, and yes, a FWD car has little it can put on a proper RWD v8. But the fact remains, how often would most law abiding citizens and non car enthusiasts actually benefit from a fwd over a rwd.

(Off topic, I did see a boat that would have been 1800kg easy getting towned by a 380, not the smartest idea.)

Originally Posted by xfalconz

There would be no way it could put 240Kw thru the front wheels.There have been some definite torque steer issues with FWD turbos like SAAB for example and most FWD cars like mazda, Lancer and Volvo use 4WD for their performance cars.

Agree, although once your aware of the torque steer it wont catch you off suprise much. Funny you say 240kw, thats what Toyota is claiming for the supercharged sportivo model of the Aurion. I hope they make it awd, otherwise its pretty pointless. Mitsubishi probably got to the unassisted end of the torque/kw range of a fwd car with the ralliart magna. Obviously the likes of Toyota and some US cars have gone over this now, I guess a good TCL system is needed, although your still going to lose quite a few kws.

Originally Posted by brenx

The people you must meet must be pretty dumb. The women at my work know whether a car is fwd or rwd. I'd say that percentage would realistically be around 30% wouldn't know.

If you stop hanging around car enthusiasts, I would say that 80% of people have no clue whether their car is fwd or rwd.

Cars are really quite a funny thing, they represent probably the second most expensive asset to your house that you own, and brand marketing and fashion trends have maximum impact.

We dont really care who builds our house, so long as it's built, some of us don't really care if you shop at Kmart, Country Road, Industrie or Morrisey. We don't care if people wear a pulsar, citizen, seiko, omega or cartier watch, nor do we care if we bought the groceries from Kmart, Harris Farm or the now defunct David Jones range. We don't really care about what brand of boat we have, we might just pause for a minute over the brand of outboard engine, but then we get on with the rest of our lives. But mention a car brand and all hell breaks loose.

Originally Posted by Deadman

Two words. "Fleet Sales"

Same words that Ford, Holden and Toyota love to hear too!

[Deadman]

Two words. "Fleet Sales"

Originally Posted by brenx

The fact remains that mitsubishi's 6cyl engines tend to expire much faster than it's competitors.

right... :

[460cixy]

Originally Posted by brenx

The fact remains that mitsubishi's 6cyl engines tend to expire much faster than it's competitors. That's a lot of $ wasted. There's plenty of very smokey 180,000-200,000k mitsu 6's. I get to see lots of the issue of various new cars inc Ford due to my state gov't job. I get a great insight in what I should buy but my budget eventually decides for me.

Fair enough most people don't seem to keep their cars a very long time but for me. It's something I consider. I dare say my Falcon will do around 400,000k's before it's in need of a rebuild.

Front wheel drive is for small cars. It should be left that way as it serves no purpose in Australia's climate. Although Mitsubishi do export there cars. It maybe relevant to another country.

In all seriousness I'd never own a fwd large car unless I turn grandpa. Even then it'd be a Toyota. I happily drive a fwd small car. In fact I do It ain't a mitsubishi though. It's a Mazda. The last small car prior to that was a Hyundai. Prior it was rwd small Fords. I've owned plenty of small Fords.

When my EL goes mistubishi won't even be a consideration. It'll either be a turbo diesel or a v8 on gas.

The only things the mitsubishi has going for it? Power but for how long and fuel economy. I found the fuel economy very good.

looks like our expert has spoken. so how many smokie v6 mitsis have you seen? and how sure are you that thay were a 6 not the pos 4 banger? and what makes front wheel drive so bad for our climate? so i guess that big block front drive cadilacs ect are crap too. as for you el i work on those ever day of the week and there a pos. im yet to to see a so called smokie mitsi 6 the 4 bangers with the valve guid seals were smokie and early v6 magnas had the same seals but the bottom end will last easy as long as a falcon or commie i have even seen original 200.000k 2.6 astrons . dont talk up a falcon like thay last for ever. i dont think any car in australia has more warenty claims than a currant model falcon. and for those that have just got a new bf and the stearing makes an cracking noise like the ba. its not the rack. acording to our new tsb is miss alined spot welds arounf the uper wish bone on the left hand side. i dont hear of magnas with huge ups like this. i dont even like them but to bag them out with no experiance of what there like is stupid and you have shown us all!

[M14A-Mclaren]

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

why do most people buy holdens?? "because they are better" Every time I have asked why or how, they can't answer. It's all a matter of perceptions, right or wrong.

Yeah, I definately agree with, especially here in NZ where I'm pretty sure Holden has a bigger share than Ford. Some of that would have to be put down to a arrogant man with pointy sideburns.