bf2 power and specs - Page 2

Iphido · 05-09-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You're all assuming Fairmont Ghia buyers are interested in all out performance, personally i can't really see why it needs the Boss 260, the 230 is good enough.
If you're shopping for a Ghia you're shopping for refinement and luxury, performance would be secondary otherwise the XR8 or GT-P offer similar options with the extra go.

But what if the XR8 or the GT-P don't float your boat with the XT inspired interior and loud body kit. You order the V8 Ghia with 40Kw less than even the basic Calais V8.

Imagine if Fords FPV GT had only 250kw. or if the Ford Falcon six had only 155kw. Thats the sort of battle the V8 ghia has.

The Ghia has XR6 suspension, XR6 diff, previously it also got the hot XR6 engine (which in this case would be the XR6T).

The fairmont is the cardigan car, the Ghia is pitched at those who want a dynamic and luxurous vechical.

Calais gets ~14.0L/100km while the Ghia gets ~13.5L/100km.

I don't see this working at the FPV level. Fairmont Ghia Turbo with the XR6T motor is the only way I see this slotting in.

Smoke Pursuit · 05-09-2006, 06:00 PM

Oh and im told BF II is in full production now? can anyone confirm this? My dealer said that BA II started the 1st of Sept? I thought they wouldnt start till 1 Oct? Sounds like Fords trying to beef up a bit quicker to put a lid on the VE asap!

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You're all assuming Fairmont Ghia buyers are interested in all out performance, personally i can't really see why it needs the Boss 260, the 230 is good enough.
If you're shopping for a Ghia you're shopping for refinement and luxury, performance would be secondary otherwise the XR8 or GT-P offer similar options with the extra go.

Normally I agree with a 4v, but on this one no.

Why cant someone have "allout" performance and luxury?

As said before, the ghia already has XR spec suspension, so ist about time it got a good engine. Not that the stockers are slugs, but if someone spends the big money, I dont want a XT engine. I want an XT engine with a hair dryer!

For what ever reason ford changed its philosophy with BA. XR6's are no longer special, and Ghia's dnot have the better engines like previous models.

My EL Ghia has a tickford xr6 engine, the AU Ghias had tickford xr6, or the option of VCT and then all that "exclusiveness" was dumped with BA. Could never work that one out. The XR6 n/a and Ghia should have a few more kw's to make their owners feel special.

so know one knows whether or not force 6/8 have manual options?

4Vman · 05-09-2006, 06:25 PM

Guys, i just think its important that Ford maintain that distinction between the ghia/luxury cars and sports models like the XR and GT's.
As others have alluded the Ghia is normally going to appeal to the "cardigan", "mature family man" or middle management exec market, so i still believe economy is more of a priority and pedal performance less of a priority and being a V8 maybe enough to most for this segment, than for say the XR/GT customer, that's all.

4Vman · 05-09-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Normally I agree with a 4v, but on this one no.

Why cant someone have "allout" performance and luxury?

As said before, the ghia already has XR spec suspension, so ist about time it got a good engine. Not that the stockers are slugs, but if someone spends the big money, I dont want a XT engine. I want an XT engine with a hair dryer!

For what ever reason ford changed its philosophy with BA. XR6's are no longer special, and Ghia's dnot have the better engines like previous models.

My EL Ghia has a tickford xr6 engine, the AU Ghias had tickford xr6, or the option of VCT and then all that "exclusiveness" was dumped with BA. Could never work that one out. The XR6 n/a and Ghia should have a few more kw's to make their owners feel special.

so know one knows whether or not force 6/8 have manual options?

Isnt the GT-P aimed at the customer that wants all out performance and luxury? Maybe the Force 8 will be a tamer looking version of the GT-P, and in that market auto only wouldnt surprise me at all either.....

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 06:29 PM

Personally I think its a mistake to badge it as a FPV vehicle, as it is not going to have the outright performance or look-at-me styling of a GT or F6.

Force 6 and 8 are good names, but its just not an FPV car IMO.

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Isnt the GT-P aimed at the customer that wants all out performance and luxury? Maybe the Force 8 will be a tamer looking version of the GT-P, and in that market auto only wouldnt surprise me at all either.....

I was about to say that, not everyone is into the boy-racer scene. While the FPV's look good, so does the stylishness of say a M5, or AMG E Class.

Personally, I love 530i's. Good engine, very nice looking without the crazy kit, beautiful interior and they have a manual option. Thats what I would want a Force 6 to be.

I agree that 80% of the sales are probably auto, but like Ive pobably said 1000 times, its not hard at all to have a manual option. Its only the manufacturing people that sook about it.

4Vman · 05-09-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I was about to say that, not everyone is into the boy-racer scene. While the FPV's look good, so does the stylishness of say a M5, or AMG E Class.

Personally, I love 530i's. Good engine, very nice looking without the crazy kit, beautiful interior and they have a manual option. Thats what I would want a Force 6 to be.

I agree that 80% of the sales are probably auto, but like Ive pobably said 1000 times, its not hard at all to have a manual option. Its only the manufacturing people that sook about it.

Yes.. the Senator has allways been the bogan's M series / AMG!
They have sold fairly well to those without the M series / AMG budget.
These customers will be largely looking for auto, plenty of go and refined / understated styling.
Maybe FPV feel they want a piece of this limited market? im just not so sure there's a need for the ghia to be like this though, it may turn its traditionally very concervative customers away.

HLC · 05-09-2006, 06:47 PM

^ ^ ^ i dont see how it would turn customers away. im sure Ford will still have the bog stock Fairmont Ghia, but FPV will have these ghias with donk engines.

someone who wants all out luxury and performance without a big, and "ugly" bodykit (coming from older customers).

this could be a good thing. so whatever.

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes.. the Senator has allways been the bogan's M series / AMG!
They have sold fairly well to those without the M series / AMG budget.
These customers will be largely looking for auto, plenty of go and refined / understated styling.
Maybe FPV feel they want a piece of this limited market? im just not so sure there's a need for the ghia to be like this though, it may turn its traditionally very concervative customers away.

OK Im not to sure if you are being sarcatsic or not...Ill take not for know.

Yeap I agree on the profile there, bogan is a little harsh, but I get were your going with it.

Also perhaps these people do have the cash, but are frightened off after they realise how much a M or AMG is to maintain.

The senator is the right idea, but still looks like poo, but I guess thats a personal opinion.

It cant turn tradition owners away, its not like they will be ditching the n/a version. And thats Ford issue, there just not enough choice. (ah HLC beat me to it)

4Vman · 05-09-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLC

^ ^ ^ i dont see how it would turn customers away. im sure Ford will still have the bog stock Fairmont Ghia, but FPV will have these ghias with donk engines.

someone who wants all out luxury and performance without a big, and "ugly" bodykit (coming from older customers).

this could be a good thing. so whatever.

That's because we allways tend to think on here with a performance mind set!
Go ask most middle aged men (40-60) with a wife 3 kids and a good job if he wants 13 second performance or brilliantly appointed interior and comfy ride!
I know most of them see the high performance side of things as "unnecessary", but would just like to have "an 8". Remember the cars our grandads drove? fairlanes, LTD's etc?

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That's because we allways tend to think on here with a performance mind set!
Go ask most middle aged men (40-60) with a wife 3 kids and a good job if he wants 13 second performance or brilliantly appointed interior and comfy ride!

Obviously its not a huge market, but the fact is that its not hard at all for Ford to do this, and pick up a couple of sales.

All the R&D is done, they are just XR6T's with a different interior and exterior styling.

edit: Think a modern day XE ESP for example, they are rather sort after now too.

4Vman · 05-09-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Obviously its not a huge market, but the fact is that its not hard at all for Ford to do this, and pick up a couple of sales.

All the R&D is done, they are just XR6T's with a different interior and exterior styling.

edit: Think a modern day XE ESP for example, they are rather sort after now too.

The ESP was trying to be 2 things at once because Ford didn't offer a true performance Falcon in the early 80's, it only had the std V8 engine though, things are different now, we have the XR series and the FPV range so the need for a multi purpose sports/luxury vehicle is less than before, although the Force range seems to be targeted at this segment, and i feel its best left for FPV to address, not Ford with the Ghia..

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The ESP was trying to be 2 things at once because Ford didn't offer a true performance Falcon in the early 80's, it only had the std V8 engine though, things are different now, we have the XR series and the FPV range so the need for a multi purpose sports/luxury vehicle is less than before.

Hmm...your a tough bugger...lol

Ok so it wasn't the greatest example, but surely you see where I am coming from.

With very very little work to do (next to nothing) + brilliant car = Sales

And if it doesn't sell the, well, I would be that suprised I wouldn't be able to think of an analogy.

4Vman · 05-09-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Hmm...your a tough bugger...lol

Ok so it wasn't the greatest example, but surely you see where I am coming from.

With very very little work to do (next to nothing) + brilliant car = Sales

And if it doesn't sell the, well, I would be that suprised I wouldn't be able to think of an analogy.

Hahaha! just my opinions of course! Yes i understand what you're saying, and i guess i agree but feel the Force range seems to be targeted at this luxury/performance segment, and i feel its best left for FPV to address, not Ford with the Ghia, that's all!.

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hahaha! just my opinions of course! Yes i understand what you're saying, and i guess i agree but feel the Force range seems to be targeted at this luxury/performance segment, and i feel its best left for FPV to address, not Ford with the Ghia, that's all!.

Yeah true.

But historically (recently anyway) the ghia has had a bit more go, so I cant see it hurting sales.

Im also being very selfish, I just want to see a manual turbo ghia so once uni is done I can buy one...lol...alot easier than converting one.

I guess we are lucky that they are even thinking about it. Perhaps a limited run would be better to see the reaction? Better to have to much demand than supply.

rhysy_boi · 05-09-2006, 07:18 PM

are we certain yet on what is happening in the BFII range and what not? i thought FPV was keeping VERY quiet.

Rhyso

gtfpv · 05-09-2006, 08:02 PM

i have a question does anyone know what changes there will be because the origional post is still not answered . lots of speculating though.

JPFS1 · 05-09-2006, 09:41 PM

Australia has an ageing male population going through a mid life crisis and suffering from shrinkage... there for a car like this will probably sell like hotcakes.

HSE2 · 05-09-2006, 09:41 PM

Force 8 and Force 6 cars will be Fairmont Ghia spec machines. 8 way electrics with memory that sort of stuff. I assume they will have a sporting / lux theme and I am told will be available with an optional seating colour which FPV don't offer on any other car.

It would be a safe bet they will be more T1 T2 in appearance then the kit on the GT cars. Think age demographic of 45 to 55 as the target.

T3ts50 · 05-09-2006, 10:16 PM

Maybe they need to have like a GS option like back in th 70s so you can option a Fairmont Ghia with any motor you want with or without a bodykit or an XR8 with the Boss 290 and Brembo brakes and GTP style interior but without the GT bodykit.

WOTDAH · 06-09-2006, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Oh and im told BF II is in full production now? can anyone confirm this? My dealer said that BA II started the 1st of Sept? I thought they wouldnt start till 1 Oct? Sounds like Fords trying to beef up a bit quicker to put a lid on the VE asap!

BF2 is deffinatly not in production yet. Still a few months away.

HSE2 · 06-09-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

BF2 is deffinatly not in production yet. Still a few months away.

In another FPV first, the aim is to have cars in dealerships at nearly the same time as they are released to the public which is the SMS. In order to do that job one is this month. I forget the exact date but it is Sep. In order for them to achieve that, any changes to the donor cars must also be completed on the line so I think you will find BF2 is either in production now or soon will be (by months end).

Cuey · 06-09-2006, 08:56 AM

Just to throw a spanner in the works

Does anyone actually have any kind of proof that

a) Force 6 and Force 8 will be released with the BF2 in the FPV range?

b) If they are, is it set in stone that they will be FPV Fairmonts/Fairlanes?

I realise that this is the most likely scenario, but i've been thinking for some time now, that with the successfull launch of the Turbo Terri, that Force 6 and Force 8 could be FPV variants of the Territorys?

Maybe just a wild dream

Force 6 - 270kw Territory with 18'' rims
Force 8 - 290kw Territory with 19" rims

Just a thought....

HSE2 · 06-09-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuey

a) Force 6 and Force 8 will be released with the BF2 in the FPV range?

Yes. I was contacted to see if I was interested in buying one. The Stock allocation then would have been ordered to my specs. That in no way guarantees that what I was shown will actually arrive in said state.

WOTDAH · 06-09-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

In another FPV first, the aim is to have cars in dealerships at nearly the same time as they are released to the public which is the SMS. In order to do that job one is this month. I forget the exact date but it is Sep. In order for them to achieve that, any changes to the donor cars must also be completed on the line so I think you will find BF2 is either in production now or soon will be (by months end).

Just had a quick look. Ford are building several FEU (Field evaluation units) every day. Job 1 is sep 20, supply to dealers is a few weeks after that.

HSE2 · 06-09-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

Just had a quick look. Ford are building several FEU (Field evaluation units) every day. Job 1 is sep 20, supply to dealers is a few weeks after that.

Nice work.

Now can you find out why I can't tour any ford facility late Feb please?

WOTDAH · 06-09-2006, 09:11 AM

The new model orion. You might see one. Thats why

HSE2 · 06-09-2006, 09:12 AM

;).............

JPFS1 · 06-09-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

The new model orion. You might see one. Thats why

Some of the first working prototypes will be built close to the end of this year, FEU's will start near the start of the 2nd Qtr next year.