All things Solar (merged threads)

[Winter XR8]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Just got my quarterly "bill" today. $186.90 in credit for the last 3 months. Certainly beats paying $770 a quarter...........

WOW, that makes it worthwile. How many kw is your system?

[buggerlugs]

5kw.........Read the bill wrong. It's actually $245.10 credit........even better !!!!

[Franco Cozzo]

Thought you guys might be interested in something I came across, I bought some Cappa seats for my EL Fairmont Ghia not long after I bought it on Ebay, arranged a pickup from Bendigo.

I rock up to the house, its the guy's fathers house, he had a home made wind generator which the base is a tall garden shed, the blades on the turbine are ex army helicopter blades he got cheap, because they had to get rid of them anyway, and he gave me a bit of an explanation about it, he's an electrician.

He was looking at selling it on the market, mentioned something about $10-$15,000 it would cost for him to do it, but it had a better power output than the same money in solar panels.

I can try chase it up for you guys if you want? I'll try contact him via email. Might be able to coax him onto the forum.

Though I know my local council recently outlawed wind turbines for some unknown reason, probably one of the best areas for it too.

[bartaxr8]

Getting my system installed today, althoughh it is meant to bucket down rain all day, so it might not happen. Can anyone tell tell me the process of what happens after the system is installed? I think the next step is inspection and then they hook it up to the meter?

[MNM96]

Originally Posted by bartaxr8

Getting my system installed today, althoughh it is meant to bucket down rain all day, so it might not happen. Can anyone tell tell me the process of what happens after the system is installed? I think the next step is inspection and then they hook it up to the meter?

It is hooked to the meter straight away. After install, you need to let the electricity supplier know it has been installed, and they will come out and inspect the system, and then remove the meters and fit a FIM or Feed in Meter. This will enable them to keep track of feed in and supply.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by MNM96

It is hooked to the meter straight away. After install, you need to let the electricity supplier know it has been installed, and they will come out and inspect the system, and then remove the meters and fit a FIM or Feed in Meter. This will enable them to keep track of feed in and supply.

In NSW you arrange for a Level 2 Electrician to do the install

In my case on the same day as the Solar

[bartaxr8]

Originally Posted by bartaxr8

Getting my system installed today, althoughh it is meant to bucket down rain all day, so it might not happen. Can anyone tell tell me the process of what happens after the system is installed? I think the next step is inspection and then they hook it up to the meter?

As expected, the rain came down nd the install got postponed. Thanks for the replys.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by bartaxr8

As expected, the rain came down nd the install got postponed. Thanks for the replys.

do you have another install date?.....soon I hope

[bartaxr8]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

do you have another install date?.....soon I hope

They are going too call me next week and arrange another date. They said they are flat out trying to get all the installs done before the end of June.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

He was looking at selling it on the market, mentioned something about $10-$15,000 it would cost for him to do it, but it had a better power output than the same money in solar panels

Though I know my local council recently outlawed wind turbines for some unknown reason, probably one of the best areas for it too.

local council here has a no "turbine policy" within town limits as well......we tried to get a large turbine set up that would have powered a couple of blocks but the kibosh was imposed....thanks for the offer though

Originally Posted by bartaxr8

Getting my system installed today, althoughh it is meant to bucket down rain all day, so it might not happen. Can anyone tell tell me the process of what happens after the system is installed? I think the next step is inspection and then they hook it up to the meter?

each install varies but what happened with mine and quite a few others was that E.T.S.A. installed the smart meter at the same time as my meter box upgrade was taking place

the panels were installed some month later......the brothers place in stockport was done all together with E.T.S.A. turning up and placing the meter at the time of the array install

power generation will be immediate

[Stagg]

Hi Smurf,

Thought I would re-enter this thread. I've been working for about 2 months at a shop which does solar hot water, solar PV, rainwater, LED lighting, and insulation. And I have been learning a lot!

What I have been selling is a lot of Suntech and SMA, but also Ever Solar inverters as a budget product, and Trina as our other top shelf panels. The shop here has some on hand photovoltaic engineers, and any technical queries I have had them helping me out. Such intricate details about the panels I had not know existed can make a difference to the yield of the cells; also things like the silicone sealant used to make the panel watertight can make the price vary quite considerably.

Nonetheless, learnt a lot more for the technical side of things (and a lot more of the environmental side of things, you'll see in my sig that the car is carbon neutral now through gleenfleet hehe), and I'm happy to help everyone else out here.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Stagg1991

Hi Smurf,

Thought I would re-enter this thread. I've been working for about 2 months at a shop which does solar hot water, solar PV, rainwater, LED lighting, and insulation. And I have been learning a lot!

What I have been selling is a lot of Suntech and SMA, but also Ever Solar inverters as a budget product, and Trina as our other top shelf panels. The shop here has some on hand photovoltaic engineers, and any technical queries I have had them helping me out. Such intricate details about the panels I had not know existed can make a difference to the yield of the cells; also things like the silicone sealant used to make the panel watertight can make the price vary quite considerably.

Nonetheless, learnt a lot more for the technical side of things (and a lot more of the environmental side of things, you'll see in my sig that the car is carbon neutral now through gleenfleet hehe), and I'm happy to help everyone else out here.

g'day mate......glad to have you back on board.....well done on the job front!

more info we can get out there the better

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Stagg1991

Nonetheless, learnt a lot more for the technical side of things (and a lot more of the environmental side of things, you'll see in my sig that the car is carbon neutral now through gleenfleet hehe), and I'm happy to help everyone else out here.

[MNM96]

Originally Posted by ute83

Now that's a value adding post.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by MNM96

Now that's a value adding post.

Thanx, so is yours.

[comagutsa]

well after a few hiccups on getting solar i have just put a deposit down for a 3kw system
SMA SB3000HF inverter with a power monitor
15x 200w suntech panels
fitted for $6700 by northern sun solar power in Perth, will be fitted before end of June im told
fingers crossed it works out ok

alot of places has already increased their prices coz the cant fit anymore before the end of june. UNLTD wanded $8700 fitted for the same system

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

well after a few hiccups on getting solar i have just put a deposit down for a 3kw system
SMA SB3000HF inverter with a power monitor
15x 200w suntech panels
fitted for $6700 by northern sun solar power in Perth, will be fitted before end of June im told
fingers crossed it works out ok

alot of places has already increased their prices coz the cant fit anymore before the end of june. UNLTD wanded $8700 fitted for the same system

that sounds to be a very good price on a top notch system........is there a way to upgrade to .250 watt panels....the extra 3.75 kilowatts generated would be very handy and would mean a lot more power produced

most of the time the upgrade is very little in cost and takes up no more space

[comagutsa]

Yeah Stagg when i was asking you a while ago about stuff i got a few of quotes and for more than this price, i could get crap panels and inverters
eg solar harness wanted a cash price of $7150 for their crap panels -3/+3 190w and the Macsolar inverter and for their better +5 190w panels the price jumped up to cash $8350 and if i changed the inverter to a Auroa it went to $10,500

so im happy with it
and yes i ring the supplier 1st for any warrantry work.

i hear you smurf but at this time i cant really afford it, even this i had to take out some of my excess out of my home loan. been hit with some bills i wasnt expecting.

my daily usage is only really about 7units a day with worst i saw of being 21units a day but that was when we moved into house and used the reverse cycle heater for a winter just to see what it would use power wise (never been back there in over a year)
worst now is about 12-14 units
and for all our power we make in excess we only get paid 7c over here in WA , so no real big insentive to make more

this is what they will look like on my north facing roof

http://65.55.72.199/att/GetInline.as...f00&oneredir=1

[Stagg]

Just thought everyone should know this, I've had six calls today on the work phone for referrals from my customers for other people wanting to install systems, and being my job is a salesman by the sounds of it most of them are looking at placing an order within the next few days, all of 3kW and above!!!

I bet some of the admin and installers are feeling like an absolute basket case with the amount of work at the moment, our admin team is all getting new ipads because they're now working 20 hours overtime a week or something ridiculous like that


I must say on a side note that registering with GreenFleet is somewhat satusfying for myself. In a previous post in this thread it was pointed out that I drive a V8 yet rant and rave about being green, and it was a good point, so I registered with GreenFleet to offset the carbon that comes out of my cars tailpipe.

Basically I pay about $80 per year and trees are planted to offset the carbon. I also bought a motorbike as a daily to reduce my carbon emissions and registered the bike as well; but you can really go the mile and offset the carbon from the manufacturing of your clothes, the carbon from when you travel via air, the list goes on. No my new job isn't with GreenFleet haha, its just a good idea, because we need cars and cars pollute basically.

My side project now that my Fairmont is running again is I can get some plant beds around the garage which will get plenty of light, make the garage nice and green too!

[Winter XR8]

I have been looking into solar power but I noticed the rate of buy back in WA is only 7c! Is it really worth it getting that little?? Do you need to be home for the install? As I have just purchased a home and settlement is in 3 wks but I will not be moving to the new location until August! I am currently living interstate.

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by Winter XR8

I have been looking into solar power but I noticed the rate of buy back in WA is only 7c! Is it really worth it getting that little?? Do you need to be home for the install? As I have just purchased a home and settlement is in 3 wks but I will not be moving to the new location until August! I am currently living interstate.

No matter which way you look at solar, whether it be financial, ethical, environmental, or even to just show off to your neighbours, all roads paved with solar panels lead to benefits all round for the system owner.

However, here is an example of how to look at the potential FiT changes:

Example 1

FiT is 25C/kWh, and purchase rate is 20c/kWh.

You sell 10kWh, you have made $2.50.

You purchase 15kWh, you have spent $2.50

This example means that you do not have to generate as much as you are using to offset your electricity usage, meaning that you don't need as many panels and lower upfront cost etc. However, this method of choosing a system will not protect you from future FiT rate changes. As we in the industry know, the government can change rebates with less than a days notice if they see fit, should this happen the day after your installation, your left toothless and still paying for power and being hit by future price rises.


Example 2

FiT is 10c/kWh, purchase rate is 20c/kWh

You sell 10kWh, you have made $1.

You purchase 5kWh, you have spent $1.

This method will mean that you will need a much larger system to offset your electricity bill, meaning a much larger system much larger upfront cost etc.


There is a fundamental factor that you have to remember with all of this...

If you USE the power rather than export the power, than you can still offset your electricity bill.

With this method, whatever the buyback rate is, you are saving the same rate of whatever the purchase rate is. Choosing a system to generate your average kWh usage rather than the dollar figure of your power bill, this way of choosing a system will protect you from future FiT changes and from future price increases.

What this means in terms of changing habit is to use the majority of your power during daylight hours instead of exporting power. Although this is not possible for most people, you will really need a professional consultant to do the math with you.

What I do with customers is sit down with them and estimate how much of their power bill is used during the day and how much is used at night i.e. TV, stove etc. From there, make an estimate of their required export and usage based on both current FiT rates, and potential future FiT rates. I make a plethora of recommendations with different system sizes and brands and using the calculations I had talked the customer through they have an accurate representation of what to expect from their system both in the short term and long term. also keeping in mind I would spend about 2 hours with a customer for the consultation


All the more reason to have someone to sit with you face to face, rather than over the phone. It's very comfortable for me as the consultant and with the customer to see my face instead of giving a price over the phone, and customers can see past my age and absorb the information that I have (it's also a conversation starter when I appear at a customers house on my motorbike covered with environmentalist stickers, they immediately know I'm genuine lol)


Hope this helps.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Stagg

Example 2

FiT is 10c/kWh, purchase rate is 20c/kWh

You sell 10kWh, you have made $1.

You purchase 5kWh, you have spent $1.

This method will mean that you will need a much larger system to offset your electricity bill, meaning a much larger system much larger upfront cost etc.

Whilst I see what you are getting at here, I think the conclusions may stop some from choosing Solar.

In NSW we pay 24c + GST (ish)
When there was a FIT of 66c (about 18 months ago) I could not cost justify the install.
Now with a FIT of 6c I can.
With the 66c FIT I was costing at the two "sweet spots" in the pricing - 1.5 kw, and 3.5 kw. The 3.5 KW had a slightly faster payback, but was a whole lot more expensive. the payback was over 6 years, with a buy in of over 3,000.

Now as time has progressed I purchased a 2.1 kw system for under $2000 with a payback under 5 years (prolly under 4)

So in my case the lower FIT is more easily justified as the install costs have responded to the drop in demand caused by the decrease in FIT.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Winter XR8

I have been looking into solar power but I noticed the rate of buy back in WA is only 7c! Is it really worth it getting that little?? Do you need to be home for the install? As I have just purchased a home and settlement is in 3 wks but I will not be moving to the new location until August! I am currently living interstate.

tough one mate..... .07c per kilowatt is not good.....take a long time to pay the system cost off at that rate if at all.....

is this counting what your retailer will pay you as well

I just had a quick look around and found this...... and I quote.........1-for-1 ‘Solar Buyback’ Schemes

"1-for-1 (also ’1-to-1′ or ’1:1′) Solar Buyback schemes offer exactly what the name suggests: Whatever retail tariff rate someone pays for electricity from the grid, they will receive the same rate for each KWH of solar power that they export to the grid. These schemes, therefore, effectively value solar power as being ‘equal’ to that of power taken off the grid, which is generated by more conventional sources such as coal.

New solar customers in the ACT (ActewAGL) and Tasmania (Aurora), plus Horizon Energy customers in Western Australia are elegible for this kind of 1-to-1 Solar Buyback scheme. They are not ordinarily state-sponsored, but rather agreements between electricity retailers and their solar customers. One exception is the Victorian Standard Feed-in Tariff, under which new solar customers with systems 5kW and above are are eligible for a 1:1 solar buyback." end quote

hopefully this is still in play

the info came from here........ http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/t...ed-in-tariffs/

you may have to switch providers but it may be worth your while......1-1 feed in tariff is better than nothing

if your meter box is outside then I see no reason why you would have to be home

[comagutsa]

hey smurf 1-1 in WA is only with Horizon , see what they area they do

the rest is synergy and they are the only provider that we can use and they only pay 7c per unit. we cannot use hoizon in synergy's area and there is no other payments for feed in

but i look at it this way ...durning the day use as much power as im going to make if i dont and it gets exported back to the grid at 7c, its something that i would of never got if i didnt have solar,
but when i do buy my power back it will only be at 12c instead of 19c per unit so you do save a little bit....

but hopefully in the future it will go to a 1-1 system as this is the only fair outcome

[poppa smurf]

ah! okay I just did a quick search hoping to come up with an answer for you.....sorry it didn't work out

1:1,...... I think, is the fair way to go for ALL Australia......I currently receive .50c per kilowatt but to be honest I would accept the 1:1

hopefully some sanity will prevail and that would be the outcome

all you can do is to do your sums and see if you can use a "direct feed" system

[comagutsa]

yeah even when the buy back was on over here, the state gov was paying 40c for every unit and synergy was paying 7c = 47c total
state gov then dropped it 20c for every unit and syergy still paid 7c = 27c
but then the state gov stopped their side and synergy kept paying 7c so that is all we get since late 2011

but yes a 1-1 and i would be happy

oh and those people lucky enough to be getting 47c and 27c they are on 10year contracts

oh and the state gov just put up our electricity prices up to 21.87 a unit and when the carbon tax comes in its going to go up again

[poppa smurf]

yep greed is king........I was paying .29c per kilowatt until I negotiated a better deal........ .23c now

[Winter XR8]

Thanks for your replies guys, although it doesnt seem very worthwhile, I guess it will help in some way. 1 - 1, I would have no probs in getting one in. You try to do the right thing and produce clean energy and the providers just capitalise on it and shaft you, then sell it on for a profit!

[Stagg]

My two cents on what retailers are paying is that over east here it is very unlikely that the rate will drop below the 1:1 FiT rate. The reason is that there are too many people with solar on their roof already.

What should happen if the rate drops below 1:1, as soon as the pin drops and a retailer offers a rate at 1:1 when no one else does, guess how many people with solar panels are going to switch retailers! The current rate in Vic for minimum 25c per kWh is only legislated until 2016 anyway.

What the eastern side of aus has over the wild west is that there are more than one retailer for major cities. Perth has Synergy and that is all there is, there are no other retailers to compete with, so they can basically pay whatever they want at no consequence to their business.

What happened in Victoria when the FiT dropped from 66c to 25c, retailers began competing and paying higher than the minimum rates; in fact Red Energy pays 35c per kWh for solar customers, moreso than every other retailer.


The reason that Synergy and potentially here in VIC are only going to be paying 7c in the future, is because that is the cost of actually producing electricity. I have the graph somewhere at work (I can dig up on Monday for everyone), but basically the kWh rate for electricity is not the actual generation cost; the generation cost is between 7-9c per kWh.

What is added to that is cost of maintenance of the grid, admin/billing fees, and the margin for the retailers, and all that adds up to 20c per kWh upwards. So essentially, the retailers aren't looking at making a profit for paying less than what they are charging you, in the eyes of the retailer they're only paying you for your power what they are paying the power stations, without any other costs, in otherwords the real 1:1 rate is pretty low.

I do however believe that 1:1 is the only fair rate nonetheless. I do remember I was still living in WA when the FiT of 47c was introduced. What happened was Synergy was paying 1:1 at the time of about 20c, and when the government introduced the 40c FiT, Synergy immediately dropped their rate to 7c. Devious people at Synergy! blah!


I know today I've been giving a fair whack of info for everyone, but I do have access to a wealth of panels inverters, graphs, reports on electricity generation and all things solar. Would people be interested if I could get some close up photos of different panels (such as Suntech and Trina) up close to compare the quality visually? Honestly, when you see the panels visually you can tell the difference...

Also as for the rebates dropping, most companies won't tell you, but if the government reduces the rebate by the amount that they have told us, the drop in price is only about $450... but don't tell other solar companies lol

[Winter XR8]

Thanks for that clarification STAGG1991. Makes more sense now. I would like any info you have to share as I dont really know which systems are best or not. I myself would not go out and buy the cheapest system out there. I will be looking for around a mid range system. Im hoping that I can also fit a 5kw system on my roof.