Covid 19 -

[FairmontGS]

The saving grace here is that Sydneysiders tend to be geographic hermits- if you live in the East, you never cross Anzac Parade, if you live in the Inner West, you never cross the Bridge/Anzac Parade and if you live in the Northern Beaches, you never travel further south than Brookvale.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

The saving grace here is that Sydneysiders tend to be geographic hermits- if you live in the East, you never cross Anzac Parade, if you live in the Inner West, you never cross the Bridge/Anzac Parade and if you live in the Northern Beaches, you never travel further south than Brookvale.

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/brea...ing-bridge-up/

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

the thing that defeats lockdowns is always money..


Regardless of how they try to put the blame on regular idiots, some rich fool flies in and they get waved right through. Actor, politician, dopey paris hilton type whatever

Here in the states every governor or congresscritter goes on tv and lectures us about staying home for the holiday and then hops on a plane and goes wherever they feel like going.

The rules only apply to proles

Rules for thee, but not for me.

[T3rminator]

So the NSW outbreak went from 1 to 3 - 4 to 16.....and now 10. Odd numbers.

Really bad timing, week before Christmas. No doubt some already infected would have already traveled and be in other states before the restrictions were applied.

A bit annoyed at Vic's slow response, asking Christmas travelers to be good citizens and stay at home (probably not even their home) for 14 days ain't going to work.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

So the NSW outbreak went from 1 to 3 - 4 to 16.....and now 10. Odd numbers.

Really bad timing, week before Christmas. No doubt some already infected would have already traveled and be in other states before the restrictions were applied.

A bit annoyed at Vic's slow response, asking Christmas travelers to be good citizens and stay at home (probably not even their home) for 14 days ain't going to work.

28 cases in the Sydney Northern beaches outbreak, and 1 in Queensland now, also associated with the Sydney cluster.

[DJR-351]

Gouging much....

Flights from Sydney have skyrocketed in price in the last 24hours, as people scramble to leave the state and salvage their Christmas plans.

Prices for one way flights, from Sydney to Brisbane, have now jumped to almost $800, jumping from a recent low of $89 on a Virgin flight.

It comes as chaos grips the airport, which has been inundated with people concerned more border restrictions will be announced soon.

News.com.au is showing that the cheapest one way tickets to Brisbane are currently at around $300 for both Virgin and Qantas.

Virgin Australia is offering fee-free changes to all bookings until January 31 in response to the recent border changes. Change fees can also be waived up until March 31, 2021 for COVID-19 reasons.

[Citroënbender]

That doesn’t worry me; it’s personal choice. But I’m not happy about the prospect of “stranded” interstate travellers demanding assistance to return in a fortnight when they’ve launched into a questionable venture of their own volition.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Gouging much....

and thats just to cover your own personalised full flight facemask dropped from over head compartment , and the constaint in filght cleaning service and isolation theropy

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Gouging much....

Apparently there's a mass exodus out of Sydney by road too. There's no road checkpoints anywhere so people who were due to fly interstate for Christmas this weekend, have hit the road instead.

The airports, including regional airports, are being screened for passengers from NSW. But there's nothing stopping them from driving interstate?

[Work Horse]

I don't know of any country that has had an uncontrolled wave of Covid in summer.

I'm hopeful we will get on top of it, sooner rather than later.

In the meantime it may be prudent to stock up on TP

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT December 17th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

15 new cases for Australia and 0 deaths so the CMR is 3.235%. NSW recorded 9 cases, the NT 2 and both WA & Queensland recorded 1 each.

No new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.190% and active cases 43.

The UK had a new record 35,383 cases yesterday and 532 deaths.

Just over 251k new cases in the USA yesterday and a new record 3,560 deaths sees CMR drop to 1.804% and active cases drop to 39.7% with the raw numbers rising and now over 6.9M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 75M with the last 1M in 1 day;
Global cases set a new daily high of 726,923 (16/12);
Global deaths set a new daily high of 13,558 (16/12);
Brazil recorded it's 2nd and 3rd highest daily totals this week;
passes M cases;
North America passes 20M cases;
North America records a new daily case high with 275,688 (17/12);
The USA completes 228M, India 157M, Russia 84M, UK 49M, Germany 31M, France 29M and M tests.

Syria (156);
Uruguay (543);
Nigeria (1,145) - 23% above the high yesterday;
Latvia (1,040);
Japan (3,061);
Denmark (4,034);
Sweden (8,815) - 14% above the previous high;
Netherlands (12,779);
Germany (30,951) and;
UK (35,383)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[MITCHAY]

I guess I spoke soon

What horrible timing. Just when it was looking up after a **** year.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I guess I spoke soon

What horrible timing. Just when it was looking up after a **** year.

It was bound to happen. NSW Health have been somewhat too relaxed about community transmission compared to all other states and territories. They've had a few scares lately and that should've been a sign that things weren't "golden" in the state, and there was more cases in the community than was being reported / detected.

WA Premier has called for VIC / SA style lockdown asap.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/ns...6-02fb7ba1b980

[Tickford.]

So far, 47 flights from from Sydney have arrived in Melbourne today. Including passengers from the northern beaches of Sydney!

They have volunteered to self isolate at home. Yeah.. see how that goes.


edit: https://twitter.com/9NewsMelb/status...35872661557249

[MITCHAY]

NSW is the gold standard, save for the Ruby Princess debacle. And as far as I'm aware taking on the biggest burden for international arrivals. They have kept **** pretty much open and running as normal due to good tracing. There is a problem and now they are fixing it.

NSW and ACT are the only places that have kept calm on and carried on through this whole thing and there have been **** loads of people moving between both

It would have been good to have it all open for Christmas/NY but looking unlikely now.

[Citroënbender]

28 diagnosed cases out of what - 3.5 million residents?

I’m confident the current outbreak will be contained smartly. Many of the instituted behaviours (especially people keeping their distance) will be assisting in slowing contagion rates.

WA is, I believe, opinion shopping for a long term strategy of secession.

[MITCHAY]

I think he was pointing out VICs failures when you are calling out NSW.

Whatever is going on now in NSW hopefully won't ever compare to the **** up in VIC. You can't argue with facts mate is the point.

[MITCHAY]

To put things in perspective we have had 28 cases and we lost our **** while the US has had the better part of 4k deaths and 250k new cases in the past 24hrs. 310k dead now. How the **** is that acceptable over there?

They have so many cases the CMR rate drops every day even though they have record deaths. Where is the bottom?

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

To put things in perspective we have had 28 cases and we lost our **** while the US has had the better part of 4k deaths and 250k new cases in the past 24hrs. 310k dead now. How the **** is that acceptable over there?

They have so many cases the CMR rate drops every day even though they have record deaths. Where is the bottom?

they are not record deaths as a percentage of "cases"

in fact we had days in april with 3000 deaths on 30,000 or so cases .

3000 deaths on ten times as many cases would indicate better treatment and/or cases among less vulnerable patients

[MITCHAY]

That's a higher CMR but you're turning out record deaths in total. Even if you accept a 1% CMR that is 1000/100k.

We've had <30k cases and about 900 deaths this whole pandemic and this is eclipsed in the US every single day by a long way. Even accounting for population difference, that is shocking.

We are twisting ourselves in knots over 28 cases and 0 deaths

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

We are twisting ourselves in knots over 28 cases and 0 deaths

I can't tell if you're for/against the twisting ourselves in knots, your post kinda reads like it could be either way. But in the event you think it's silly we're locking down on 28 cases, back in January people were laughing at anyone who took the virus seriously because there were "only" 100 cases. Then it grew, as many said it would.

With a little foresight most people should be able to see why 28 cases is a worry. Today it's 28, in a week it's 60, two weeks it's over a hundred. Once it starts to run away it gets going and is unstoppable without massive intervention.

The easiest way to prevent the ****heap that we know it can grow in to.... is to nip it in the bud while we have 'only' 28 cases.

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

That's a higher CMR but you're turning out record deaths in total. Even if you accept a 1% CMR that is 1000/100k.

We've had <30k cases and about 900 deaths this whole pandemic and this is eclipsed in the US every single day by a long way. Even accounting for population difference, that is shocking.

We are twisting ourselves in knots over 28 cases and 0 deaths

I don't think you all comprehend how wretched our healthcare "system" is


The guy I mentioned a week or so ago who had the covid who they wouldn't admit into the hospital until he got pneumonia , the same guy who had a final zoom call with his family , is now home! he literally checked himself out with pneumonia to die at home.

He was terrified he was going to catch something else while in hospital that would kill him instead of the covid which in his words he was handling ok.

He went home and has someone come do IV antibiotics twice a day and is recovering.

The guy has one kidney and opted to go home and take his chances.

His 2 kids are taking care of him , they never tested positive initially and so far feel ok.

All are case numbers are wildly distorted by these new quick tests which seem to return a lot of false positives . Its happened to 2 people I know in the last couple weeks. Incidentally the quick test is not covered by a lot of insurance plans , they are telling people if they want the quick test its $250 out of pocket. They get a positive and are told to get one of the original swab tests , which insurance "will" pay for.

So they tested positive on a quick test they paid for , got a slow test for free , waited 3 days were negative but stayed home from work for no reason and lost 3 days pay. They were probably counted as both a positive "case" then a negative test also 3 days later .

That being said my guess is our case numbers are much lower than what we actually have had. By millions probably , the first 3 months lots of people couldn't get tests at all and then just got over it and will never know if they had it or something else.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

…The guy I mentioned a week or so ago who had the covid who they wouldn't admit into the hospital until he got pneumonia , the same guy who had a final zoom call with his family , is now home! he literally checked himself out with pneumonia to die at home.

He was terrified he was going to catch something else while in hospital that would kill him instead of the covid which in his words he was handling ok.

He went home and has someone come do IV antibiotics twice a day and is recovering.

The guy has one kidney and opted to go home and take his chances.

His 2 kids are taking care of him , they never tested positive initially and so far feel ok.

It’s good to read of a recovery; thank you for updating the story - I’d not forgotten it.

[russellw]

A couple of things.

I'm not going to tolerate NSW bashing in this thread despite the hammering that Victoria copped so if you want to have those discussions then expect to get a holiday.

I'm not terribly sure that initiating the sort of sanctions being imposed on people retrospectively is actually fair play. In effect what some State governments are doing is saying that despite the fact you've been free to move around for the last seven or eight days, you now need to self isolate for the next 14 days if you have been on the Northern Beaches in Sydney. It's unclear what this means in terms of returning home.

As usual, the bulk of the mass exodus between the States (particularly NSW/Vic) has already happened before the restrictions were in place so damage already done.

For those complaining about the cost of air travel, let's remember that it is only in the last 3 decades or so that it has become so affordable. In 1964, when jet travel became widely available for Australian domestic flights, a person on average yearly earnings (£980) could purchase 9 return economy flights between Melbourne and Sydney whereas at the beginning of this year that same average earnings ($89,128) would buy more than 250 return flights between Melbourne and Sydney and even more with some carriers.

It's no different with International travel. The Sydney - London 'Kangaroo Route' is a great case in point.

First flown in 1947, the cost was £585 or a little over $40,000 today. Using average wages, our 1947 traveller needed about 120 weeks pay to buy a ticket - not that they realistically could.

By the mid 70's and the widespread introduction of the 747, that cost was ~$2,500 (~$18,000 today) or 17 weeks average weekly wage ($146).

By the mid 80's, deregulation and the introduction of 'no frills' airlines that was down to $2,300 ($6,860 today) or about 6.5 weeks average weekly wage ($355).

By the mid 00's, that had stabilised at about $2,600 ($3,458 today) or about 2.3 weeks average weekly wage ($1,133) so it was becoming more affordable until just prior to the COVID pandemic when the median price for that trip was $1,288 which represented only 0.75 of the average weekly wage ($1,714).

Fast forward to now and the current median cost for that trip is $4,048 or 2.3 weeks average weekly earnings or about where it was in 2005. To even get back to 1980's levels that would need to cost more than $11,000 so we perhaps shouldn't complain in real terms.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by russellw

A couple of things.

I'm not going to tolerate NSW bashing in this thread despite the hammering that Victoria copped so if you want to have those discussions then expect to get a holiday.

I'm not terribly sure that initiating the sort of sanctions being imposed on people retrospectively is actually fair play. In effect what some State governments are doing is saying that despite the fact you've been free to move around for the last seven or eight days, you now need to self isolate for the next 14 days if you have been on the Northern Beaches in Sydney. It's unclear what this means in terms of returning home.

As usual, the bulk of the mass exodus between the States (particularly NSW/Vic) has already happened before the restrictions were in place so damage already done.

For those complaining about the cost of air travel, let's remember that it is only in the last 3 decades or so that it has become so affordable. In 1964, when jet travel became widely available for Australian domestic flights, a person on average yearly earnings (£980) could purchase 9 return economy flights between Melbourne and Sydney whereas at the beginning of this year that same average earnings ($89,128) would buy more than 250 return flights between Melbourne and Sydney and even more with some carriers.

It's no different with International travel. The Sydney - London 'Kangaroo Route' is a great case in point.

First flown in 1947, the cost was £585 or a little over $40,000 today. Using average wages, our 1947 traveller needed about 120 weeks pay to buy a ticket - not that they realistically could.

By the mid 70's and the widespread introduction of the 747, that cost was ~$2,500 (~$18,000 today) or 17 weeks average weekly wage ($146).

By the mid 80's, deregulation and the introduction of 'no frills' airlines that was down to $2,300 ($6,860 today) or about 6.5 weeks average weekly wage ($355).

By the mid 00's, that had stabilised at about $2,600 ($3,458 today) or about 2.3 weeks average weekly wage ($1,133) so it was becoming more affordable until just prior to the COVID pandemic when the median price for that trip was $1,288 which represented only 0.75 of the average weekly wage ($1,714).

Fast forward to now and the current median cost for that trip is $4,048 or 2.3 weeks average weekly earnings or about where it was in 2005. To even get back to 1980's levels that would need to cost more than $11,000 so we perhaps shouldn't complain in real terms.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the cost of air travel per say but are voicing there disapproval over the hike in prices in the space of a few hours, the demand for seats out of Sydney went through the roof so some airlines decided to capitalise on it by raising prices.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I don't think anyone is complaining about the cost of air travel per say but are voicing there disapproval over the hike in prices in the space of a few hours, the demand for seats out of Sydney went through the roof so some airlines decided to capitalise on it by raising prices.

Maybe it was the airlines way of trying to discourage Sydney siders from travelling interstate? They were probably trying to do all the other states and Territories a favour, since the NSW government were so slow to react?

It did work to some extent. I personally know of two families who have made it to Melbourne from Sydney metro before the restrictions came into effect at midnight. One family paid the hiked prices and was in Melbourne by 18:00 yesterday. The other family hurriedly jumped in the car and crossed the border at 21:00pm last night into Victoria.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I don't think anyone is complaining about the cost of air travel per say but are voicing there disapproval over the hike in prices in the space of a few hours, the demand for seats out of Sydney went through the roof so some airlines decided to capitalise on it by raising prices.

I don't know about this. I've flown heaps over the last 30 years and have often had to purchase and fly same day (at the client's expense). I've paid $600, $700 to go Sydney to Brisbane or well over $1200 to go to Perth.

Airfares are structured to increase really quickly in $ as d-day approaches. I'd say people are complaining now because it's the first time for many of them to have actually purchased and flown within a day or so.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

I don't know about this. I've flown heaps over the last 30 years and have often had to purchase and fly same day (at the client's expense). I've paid $600, $700 to go Sydney to Brisbane or well over $1200 to go to Perth.

Airfares are structured to increase really quickly in $ as d-day approaches. I'd say people are complaining now because it's the first time for many of them to have actually purchased and flown within a day or so.

Whether you know about it or not is irrelevant, and tit-for-tat, I have been flying to work and back for well over 30 years, domestic and international, and i haven't stopped flying interstate all through the pandemic.... so take that, and what i posted has bugger all to do with that or your flying experience or the 'normal' price hikes....

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...42c497f0ec4433

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...leave-NSW.html

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showpo...postcount=8308

.....normally at peak periods such as holidays etc (and short notice) the airlines have the vast majority of there fleets flying so can and do demand higher seat prices, at the moment though most major airports around Aus look like Kingman Airport in the Arizona desert with the amount of planes parked up, get some of them planes back up in the air and spread the load, help justify the recent Gov handouts to prop up the airlines during the pandemic and make more seats available.....

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Whether you know about it or not is irrelevant, and tit-for-tat, I have been flying to work and back for well over 30 years, domestic and international, and i haven't stopped flying interstate all through the pandemic.... so take that, and what i posted has bugger all to do with that or your flying experience or the 'normal' price hikes....

Cool story brah. I nearly got to the end of the first sentence before I lost-

[PhilT2]

Cost me $650 to fly to Tokyo in '76, in a wide body DC10. Making about $150/wk. Paid $25,000 for an average house in Brisbane outer suburbs a year later. Times have changed. Competition seems to be the biggest factor in determining prices.