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#61 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
From memory he lost everything in that fire. On the subject of controlled burns/back burning, in Wait Awhile they're usually pretty good with it but there have been 2 high profile examples of the Department of Environment stuffing them up and it got out of control, causing huge fires and property loss.
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#62 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Should Australia, have water bombing aircraft? - I know we loan some from northern hemisphere countries from time to time and I am aware there would be a great cost to purchase some of our own. Also makes you wonder what technology is available to detect fires at a very early stage to give police a better chance of catching the culprits in the act and also giving fire crews a better chance of controlling the fires, whilst they are still relatively small.
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#63 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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The thing is we don't lone them we have a contract for them every season, Erricson will not sell them so like the northern hemisphere we have a contract for our fire season
We also have our own buckets and helicopters the thing is don't think more of these arial appliances are the solution of our problem they are fantastic in smashing spot fires and this really helps stop the spread of a fire, but knocking down fire fronts and moping up can't be done this way, the other issue is fire storms and such tend to happen due to high winds, and like last week they had to be grounded Again this is just a a conversation, I'm not even disagreeing
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#64 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Melb north
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just reading one of the earlier posts, did i think i read the council is allowing clearing of trees up to cleared 5 metres from the property ? this seems farcical to me, seeing some of the bush fires from victorian black saturday......... you could see flames shooting horizontally in the wind and some of the flames appeared to be like a house block long, not to mention if a 60 foot high flaming gum decides to fall over......... 5 metres clearance is not going to be all that helpfull. Good point Yeti about the winds and air craft, i didn't think of that, it certainly would not hurt though to have a heap of these things on stand by for when the wind dies down though. Last edited by mik; 23-10-2013 at 02:18 PM. |
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#65 | |||
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Can we stop people lighting fires, either deliberately or accidentally? I suggest no. Next step, any fire that is lit how can we respond quickly and effectively to control it, before it becomes a large front. Hence the reason for fire detectors, water bombers. Granted with the large land mass we have, this this wont work all the time, but it may prevent some fires becoming large fronts.
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#66 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
where these water bombers come in to their own is in this situation, they are reasonably acurate and can attack or atleast cool this spot fire to stop this "galloping" thus slowing the fire front up considerably Quote:
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There's another forum member viewing this thread who can no doubt explain how this side of things works much better than me so I'm hoping they contribute to this thread shortly (I won't out you, but I think you have more knowledge than me in this area, so please explain it so we can all learn) Also please keep in mind that my old RFS brigade averaged 200 calls per year of that about 30% were to grass & bush fires, of that 30% very few end up to be jobs like this, this is because they get contained and extinguished quickly. My old RFS isn't special you would find many other brigades in the state with similar call rates, and similar call splits
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#67 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
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A Friend just posted this on facebook, and I thought xxx000 might be interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...nf&app=desktop
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#68 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 282
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The smaller heli's carry 1 or maybe 2 cubic metres of water (up to 2T)
Elvis can carry 9.5 cubic metres (9.5T) The 747 in the link delivers 77.6 cubic metres over a distance of 5km whilst its under flaps and slats (landing cofig) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUEqbLVfpGc As a bushfire prone country, maybe we should spend the bucks and do the job properly. With Qantas moving maintenance off shore, surely there is a spare hanger or two at Mascot.
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#69 | |||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
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I remember over a year ago when I was in Victorville (KVCV) dropping off a retiring 438 seeing an Evergreen 747-200 with the old Pratts that was still online. I asked the duty manager what it was and he took me for a look see inside.
This thing was converted to carry around 22000 US gallons of water for firefighting. That's some 80,000 litres of water or retardant. I was impressed. It doesn't just dump the water, it has a high pressure spray system for precision bombing. Anyways, despite the flashbacks of the cockpit with the engineers station and the old avionics, this thing had apparently been deployed recently to Israel to fight fires. Although it had a 3 hour turnaround time, it was able to drop a continuous stream of water 100m by 5 kilometres long. Bloody impressive if you ask me. Anyways, I've hunted around and found a video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PytYPRIsJ38 Just a couple of points though, this aircraft can do water bombing at night when fires are less active, and being a 747 can fly at around 900km/h to get to anywhere in the world. This time of the year in the USA it is coming in to winter and as such this airplane just sits at KVCV waiting for work. Would make sense to get it here, it could really make a massive difference.
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#70 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
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#71 | |||
Bolt Nerd
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ojochal, Costa Rica (Pura Vida!)
Posts: 14,613
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Your last sentence, or rather ONE word in it, typifies our "powers that be" attitude to ideas so bloody logical.. SENSE!! Of which it seems none of them have an ounce of! Honestly... Wouldn't you reckon the insurance companies would maybe go halves with govco to get one (or 3) of these babies over here during our summer? Surely it'd pay it's way by negating property fire claims? The same could be said about Elvis... Which, by the way has been axed this summer... Pretty SENSIBLE eh??!
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Current vehicles.. Yamaha Rhino UTV, SWB 4L TJ Jeep, and boring Lhd RAV4 Bionic BF F6... UPDATE: Replaced by Shiro White 370z 7A Roadster. SOLD Workhack: FG Silhouette XR50 Turbo ute (11.63@127.44mph) SOLD 2 wheels.. 2015 103ci HD Wideglide.. SOLD SOLD THE LOT, Voted with our feet and relocated to COSTA RICA for some Pura Vida! (Ex Blood Orange #023 FPV Pursuit owner ![]() |
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#72 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 282
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It wasn't axed up here in Sydney - it seems to be working flat out
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#73 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 667
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Quote:
As for larger firefighting aircraft, it starts geting a bit technical. I've seen countless pieces of footage of the Evergreen 747 supertanker, and indeed it looks a very impressive piece of kit. However, a 747 with 90,000 litres of water aboard only has a certain performance envelope that it can utilise, and potentially this can limit its low speed drop effectiveness in mountainous terrain when strong winds are blowing. It then has to return to an adequately-resourced airport facility to refill, so turnaround times become an issue. A few years ago the Victorian CFA trialled a DC-10 supertanker, but (fortunately) we had a mild summer that year and the thing barely got used. Its effectiveness in local conditions was thus largely untested. If you're looking for flexible, quick turnaround, precision waterbombing for asset protection purposes, the Skycranes run a pretty solid argument. |
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#74 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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What was the other one? Georgia Peach??
The plane must cost a whole heap to hire and run, I wonder how it compares to 2 or 3 heli tankers?
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#75 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Also, a plane needs filling from a tanker or hydrant...helicopter can scoop up from lakes/dams.
The most successful fixed-wing bombing craft are amphibious craft, where they can take in water whilst skimming a body of water. But where they are used in America, there is the luxury of huge lakes...
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#76 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 667
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Quote:
If you consider that a DC-10 or a 747 supertanker would most likely have to use a major city airport to land, re-fill, and then take off, it limits the options somewhat. And that assumes a clear inbound and outbound air traffic control priority to land and take off again ahead of all the other 'commercial' flights. Can just imagine a small town burning to the ground whilst a 747 supertanker stays in a holding pattern whilst 3 Jetstar planeloads of bogans back from Bali take priority spot on the landing grid at Tullamarine or Sydney airports..... ![]() |
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#77 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2012
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The initial DC evaluation testing in Wombat State Forest from a few years ago.
I guess it's ok to post now. Nothing too exciting here though.. http://s47.photobucket.com/user/kako...ef5ff.mp4.html And then in Enfield later on... http://youtu.be/YtiIX9lax-s The results weren't that spectacular in heavy forests Last edited by usernametaken; 24-10-2013 at 11:26 AM. |
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#78 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2007
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well we didn't have the 'mega fire' (surprised he kept a straight face as he used that term) Shane Fitzy said we might face and no '300 km wide fire front' happened. most firebugs were probably scared off by the obvious attention they'd be under I was waiting for Channel 9 to have the all too familiar 'telethon for the bushfire victims' but since there was no 'mega fire', probably no telethon either the message from this is Report Fire Starters |
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#79 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Australia
Posts: 2,149
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I heard a month or so ago Australia was offered a 747 tanker but refused it.
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#80 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,370
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News Flash !! A fixed wing fire fighting aircraft has gone down in the Ulladulla area (sketchy details at this stage - but a wing snapped off in flight). Hope all are well - but doesn't sound too good...
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#81 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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#82 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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No good. Wing snapped off? I'm sure I've seen a clip if this same thing happening in another country.
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#83 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
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for those out there old mate here is refering to the 4th item which is essentialy the chemical reactiaction that casues the combustion ![]() I really didn't think I needed to mention it in my post as well I was trying to keep it simple and it had no place in what I was trying to explain I suspect xxx000 has a real issue with the RFS & Fire Rescue NSW (this I worked out by his smart **** Report Fire Starters comment I've seen very little by way of anything from this fool aside from miniscule corrections in my posts and 5hit caning of the fire services, because he seems to think they're doing a bad job he's entitled to his opinion, even if it is messed up
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#84 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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#85 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2012
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#86 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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[QUOTE=Brent;4916595]You absolutely sure it is the same chopper? Apparently Erikson have several different models, and the controversy in Victoria is that unlike previous years where we've used the full monty 'Elvis' verson, this year Victoria has leased a smaller model. Apparently looks very similar but the water payload is a good 30-40% less.
Your talking about the CH 54 based one unlike Elvis which is CH 64 ( Jolly Green Giant ) based .
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#87 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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#88 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 282
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![]() From an armchair perspective if the Errickson carries 10 tonne per drop and the 747 carries 80 tonne per drop (and this can be more effective as a suppressant than plain tap water), even though there is a 3hr turn around for loading fuel & water/suppressant plus the travel time to and from the fire (lets assume 2 hours) for a total of 5 hours per circuit; Would the Errickson normally drop 8 loads onto the fire front for the same time period? Additionally the 747 can also drop at night where as rotary wings can't. I know I'm going on a bit about this but Australia is the home of bushfires and our are bigger and badder than any other country. Our polititions will **** us over by making all sorts of statements during the crisis then reduce the budgets of the fire services after all the hue and cry has died down with stupid nonsense like "the fire has burnt everything - nothing to do here". I'm sick of stupid pollies, I'm sick of stupid councils and greenies and I'm sick of bushfires that could of been prevented or at least managed in the early stages.
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#89 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 282
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[QUOTE=wrongwaynorris;4916988]
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A CH 64 is a Chinook - twin rotor (2 big rotors about the same size) with a fully enclosed body. An S 64 is a Sikorsky Skycrane, the civillian version of the military type CH54 Sikorsky Tarhe which has long since retired. The original jolly green giant was a Sikorsky HRS-2
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#90 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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[QUOTE=MarkAW;4917007]
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