Are we on the wrong side side???

[Revolver]

Well some interesting things have been put forward.

Firstly let me put the most important thing under the scope, & I realised it, after I could no longer edit. The title is wrong, & some have commented on this. It should be, "are we fighting a losing battle?", "are we on the losing side?" or "are we the underdogs?" totally the wrong imediate message conveyed & miss-comunictaion on my part, so for that I'm sorry.

I never wanted to single out anyone on any post ever but: Falc'man I just have two things to say: if I'm on the ford ship, & your on the ford ship, & its going down, ah, arent we both on the same ship? If it is going down, but you say its not going down, & the water over the decks & lapping at your feet, who is wrong? The water?? I dont think that will power keeps it alfoat mate, unless your a jedi! It's Not very supportive when someone is looking for answers you give them a hard slap in the face, & with a stern look on your face point back to the way they came...... Especially when you never gave a reason. Thats what you did. Or am I miss intepreting. By the looks of the "yes you probably are" quote I beleive you are.

It is safe to say that there are some die hard Ford followers on here. No Doubt, after THAT post I dont think I'm one of them. & I suppose in a way.... I'm not, I'm primarily a MOPAR man at heart. I have to say that the new range in the way of Chrysler just doesnt tickle my ticklish bits. So we all have a second choice. Fords are mine. I drive a fairlane. Own 3 of them, & love them, my next car will be a ford, most probably the next after that too. So am I not a true follower if I post my thoughts that what I'm seeing as my chosen brand look like its going down?? That would obviously mean a few others that have posted here would be in that category too, no doubt. Everone whos reading, don't think I'm jumping ship at the first sign of trouble. I'm just throwing it out there, are we going down?

You can tell who are the complete die hards, & good on 'em. However lets just say that if ford closes its doors tomorrow, in 30 years time will you still say the same thing? I doubt it. Its the same with the valiant/chrysler lovers now, we really have nothing to cheer about in the present, & you can't keep LIVING in the past. Sure, chrysler OZ was only around for 20 odd years, but how many of you can remember 'Hey Charger'? Do we still do that now?? No. We have to keep moving with times in what we support & love.

Someone asked me on here do I change sides when my favorite footy team loses, or something along those lines. Well im no footy/rugby/afl/cricket/soccer(or football)/hockey fan or any others ive missed. I may watch a state of origin or grand final, & may know who Billy Slater & Johnathan Brown are, but I dont follow it. So there goes that one. Cant jump if I dont support! I just watch the V8's, love my Mopars & Fords, & Shoot competitively. Thats it. The major stuff anyway. Like I said I'm not jumping, I'm just putting it out there, will we have any new ford products to follow? & where is the company going? From what i can see, or rather didnt, against GM, is that there is some hope. THATS WHAT I WAS AFTER. Some were answered kindly, & simply. Thank you. Problem is you can only give points to one person on one thread.... that sorta sucks!

Now i know damn well the B series that came from AU is A DAMN GOOD THING. & FG Is even better. What I'm asking is with these great products why are we being out-sold? Now as some of you pointed out, ford is doing smarter business, now don't take offence, you didnt have anything to back that up. As someone else pointed out, without a look at both Holdens & Fords Budgetry sheets, we can only surmise.

There are so many points been put forward, like the practicality clothes argument. Yep fair enough, Im sure there was a bit of cheekiness thrown at me on that one, put practicality can only get you so far some times. If your refering to practiality to [(your)- person whos reading this] situation, fair enough. But sticking to the clothes exapmle, tradies boots, shirt, pants isn't practical for walking in a boardroom full of black suits for a company merger meeting, is it? So ford to me needs to widen out its practicality. Some people want/need a falcon wagon. Yes the territoy is a damn good thing to, but it's just not PRACTIAL for them.

Its good to see that there are some products, & hopeful products on the way. & that they will be here in time. Time enough to say to HQ a very loud, "OI! we aussies are more than just kangaroos & gum trees." Time enough to get more market share back. (look at chrysler: Shut down 30 years ago, now TRYING to claw some of it back, but not working hugely. only slowly). I would hate to see the same happen with Ford. & Hopefully enough time to keep the faith of us who aren't very sure on whats happening. Because ford, in the public statements are very commited (what company isnt?) but not realling showing all the results of its work. I just hope it gets better!

BBII

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

As above. Look into what isn't selling and you'll find the large Ford cars aren't doing badly (notwithstanding Territory's lack of performance due to age), it's the expensive imports that aren't firing. There is a strong case for Falcon's future, beyond 2015. The fact it isn't set in concrete is because it's too far out to make the decision <<< I wish people would get this point alone through their skulls.

And to answer the thread title, yes, you probably are.

HMMM Do you think that ford wasn't confirming falcon in the 80/90/00s cause it was too far out? Of course it was. For the most part falcon has never REALLY had a question mark over it till now, well maybe AU. Falcon before has never needed a confirmation before anyway, cause it was always going to be here.

So with the imports, after everyone starts making money after the full financial affects of the past few years have washed away, they will just keep buying falcon, or flash some cash with a import? It wont always stay falcon "isn't doing so badly". Market fluctuations change with the public's money.

The fact is Holden, Toyota & Mazda are punching at or above fords level. Of course there will always be rainy & sunny days. Its overcast at the moment, with no weather report.

BBII

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Chevypower how did you end up with you signature?

Good question. My first car I owned was a '76 Statesman with a 350 Chevy, and when I signed on this forum, I had a Berlina LS1 (wasn't living here in the US at the time), then I happened to get a Chevy truck when I got here... I guess I could have tried a lot harder to stick with Fords :-). I have always prefered Fords though. I vow to try harder to buy more Fords.

[144HSK]

I think car makers like Ford and Holden need to do better! It's pretty messed up for a new car to have orange peal or faulty components that need replacing in the first year etc. We put up with it because we love or have loyalty for them. I don't think I would buy a new car unless I'm heaps far in front with a house and stuff... Why? Because you don't get what you pay for...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by BBII

I never wanted to single out anyone on any post ever but: Falc'man I just have two things to say: if I'm on the ford ship, & your on the ford ship, & its going down, ah, arent we both on the same ship? If it is going down, but you say its not going down, & the water over the decks & lapping at your feet, who is wrong? The water?? I dont think that will power keeps it alfoat mate, unless your a jedi! It's Not very supportive when someone is looking for answers you give them a hard slap in the face, & with a stern look on your face point back to the way they came...... Especially when you never gave a reason. Thats what you did. Or am I miss intepreting. By the looks of the "yes you probably are" quote I believe you are.

You're not wrong. But it was you who got the title wrong.

I take back what I said, especially that you've clarified what you actually did mean in your title, as that would be a completely different question.

Originally Posted by Blue Beast II

HMMM Do you think that ford wasn't confirming falcon in the 80/90/00s cause it was too far out? Of course it was. For the most part falcon has never REALLY had a question mark over it till now, well maybe AU. Falcon before has never needed a confirmation before anyway, cause it was always going to be here.

That is very far from the truth, the Falcon had always "faced the axe", according to the press. Now, thanks to "One Ford", the Falcon will be better than ever. And according to those close to Ford, it's far from being axed.

But, again, according to some in the press, the Falcon "won't survive". It's my choice, as a person who has interest in this matter to look beyond what garbage is written in the media, and judge for myself where Ford Au is headed, and what role they play within One Ford.

You'll learn it's a vital role, and when considering the priority the GRWD has then you can deduct how healthy Ford Au's (and Falcon/Territory's) future really is. But, I'm not relying on deduction, either. It's certainly one of the strongest hints there is coming from right at the top. That's why I'm very confident of Ford's future in Au. The unforeseen is another matter.

Of course, from this will sprout iterations from this platform. At the moment it's only a conception. Wait a year before you judge.

[Falcman0o7]

lmfao! no man...NO.

[vanman_75]

wow ...no ! and thats firm

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

That is very far from the truth, the Falcon had always "faced the axe", according to the press. Now, thanks to "One Ford", the Falcon will be better than ever. And according to those close to Ford, it's far from being axed.

Falcon has lived on the verge of extinction for over 40 years now, highlights reel:

I can remember the press wondering whether our XA would be a US maverick or over sized Cortina....
Then I can remember when the XD was supposed to be a a US Fox bodied Granada....
Then I can remember when the XF was supposed to be the 1986 Taurus or a long Telstar.
Then the EL was going to be a Cocroach shaped 1995 Atlanta Taurus...
Then the FG was going to be a Ford Fusion.....

[CFOUR]

Originally Posted by Blue Beast II

do we have the odds stacked against us??

NO!
fords have always been better drivers cars.

[yueses]

My best mate has been a ford guy for over 10 years, having owned explorers to xr8's etc..

He recently bought a Holden Crewman, V8 SS because ford do not make a 4 door ute...

FORD Are rapidly loosing out to holden.. there's a fleet of BA wagon's at my work- company cars.. they have nearly 20.. when they are upgraded soon they will have to switch to holden wagon's now..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Then I can remember when the XF was supposed to be the 1986 Taurus or a long Telstar.

Project Capricorn was a stretched Mazda 626/Telstar. It was to be the XF replacement. Initial design and engineering work was done on it up to the point of complete fullsize clays. Luckily they could not get the proportions right, as it was too long and skinny and the project was abandoned. Work quickly switched to EA26, which was rushed into production due to the time that was wasted on Capricorn. Hence why the EA's quality was so poor. It was released months before it was ready.

If I had a scanner I would scan up some photos of the Project Capricorn clays. Being basically a streched 626 meant the width was never going to match the length.

A FWD Falcon was so much closer to reality than most people could believe.

[Wally]

That's interesting, thanks for that.

[TheZHLANE]

Originally Posted by loftie

Do you change your footy team when you lose a game or finish bottom of the ladder?

only if its the freo dockers

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I know of many Territory owners who have come from Falcon, so there is substitution there.

Also we have no access to Ford AUs balance sheet, so I dont know whether anyone can claim that Ford is doing smarter business.

Yes, but Ford needed a good product to compete in the SUV market.

People looking at SUVs aren't interested in Falcons or Commodores, and the Territory would have brought in new customers there alone.

Hypothetically (purely), I have a family and I have been driving a Falcon for a while, but it's time for an upgrade. Due to wanting more space in the back and in the cabin, I want an SUV. Which car would I consider? Certainly not another Falcon.

On top of that, Holden have the Captiva and the Commode Wagon which can be fairly assumed that they are targeted at families.

I think Ford have done it well.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by STANI

only if its the freo dockers

Then Fremantle should have had no more supporters by now...

[EgoFG]

Being the leader is any segment does not mean you will have a sound ongoing business, just ask GM
Being the leader in overall manufacturing quantities in a country does not mean you will have a sound ongoing business, Just ask GM
Being the largest manufacturer in the world does not mean you will have a sound ongoing business, Just ask GM.

The word is profitability - both this year and in the years to come. Not Share Price, not market share - profitability.

Doe we have accurate comparable figures for Ford vss GM Holden ?
The word on the street is that Ford make more from each sale, and judgung from my mate's 4 month wait for a new Falc Ute - I'd say Ford are in a better position (Demand outstripping supply is the strongest indicator of profitability).

Oh, and if reducing range bothers you, you need to be happy you are not a holden guy.
Where is the VE 1 Toner, the VE Adventura, the VE 4 door ute thing - gm Holden have had some strong cutbacks in platform.


Am I peed that commo outsells Falc - yes, it makes no sense, GM Holden have a gifted reputation in Australia - the failing GM Daewoo can get a holden badge and sell like hotcakes - when it is the same korean car !

But this is not really relevant.
Falcon will continue in Australia as long as it is profitable.

Want to contribute to that ? - put your money where your mouth is (I do every 5 or so years).

[tezxr8man]

evryone has week moments dude stay strong and enjoy, remember 888 are week and it shows by them running away DJR stayed loyal and is better off for it

[XXXR]

going down?

Uncy Marin stated in his monthly media address that Ford Australia posted an operating profit in 4Q 2009; while Holden recieved a massive commonwealth government loan last year just to stay afloat!

Ford Tops US Sales in February for the first time in 12 years...

The entire Holden range of GM-Daewoo cars are rubbish...

Coyote V8, Ecoboost, New Egas, New (diesel) Territory, 6-speed Powershift Dual-Clutch Box

230 Million invested last year...

The less Ford Taxi's the better, they give the Falcon name a bad image to the general public; ford realised this years ago and canned the taxi pack.

Ford are selling more Falcons privately, and making more money per car; and importantly: making money. Holden and Toyota can have the fleets and fight over the #1 sales spot.

And we're on the wrong side??
Get Behind Us or Get Out Of The Way!

[WASP]

Originally Posted by XXXR

going down?

Uncy Marin stated in his monthly media address that Ford Australia posted an operating profit in 4Q 2009; while Holden recieved a massive commonwealth government loan last year just to stay afloat!

Ford Tops US Sales in February for the first time in 12 years...

The entire Holden range of GM-Daewoo cars are rubbish...

Coyote V8, Ecoboost, New Egas, New (diesel) Territory, 6-speed Powershift Dual-Clutch Box

230 Million invested last year...

The less Ford Taxi's the better, they give the Falcon name a bad image to the general public; ford realised this years ago and canned the taxi pack.

Ford are selling more Falcons privately, and making more money per car; and importantly: making money. Holden and Toyota can have the fleets and fight over the #1 sales spot.

Could not have put it better myself.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by XXXR

.....The less Ford Taxi's the better, they give the Falcon name a bad image to the general public; ford realised this years ago and canned the taxi pack...

Is this accurate? I would have thought the taxi market would be a good thing for Ford to have, such as Government cars, Police cars and business cars etc...the more sold the better (given Ford are selling them for a profit)...?

Seems like a weird decision if it was based purely on image..? Not that i'm trying to belittle the importance of brand image but these are XT's we are talking about here...

Just curious

[JC]

Well, if you have red glasses on, then Yes we are on the wrong side. But being on the blue side, we know we are on the right side, and they are on the wrong side.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Is this accurate? I would have thought the taxi market would be a good thing for Ford to have, such as Government cars, Police cars and business cars etc...the more sold the better (given Ford are selling them for a profit)...?

Just curious

Take a guess how many taxis on the road are sold new.

None - Ford don't do a Taxi pack any more

[WASP]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Is this accurate? I would have thought the taxi market would be a good thing for Ford to have, such as Government cars, Police cars and business cars etc...the more sold the better (given Ford are selling them for a profit)...?

Seems like a weird decision if it was based purely on image..? Not that i'm trying to belittle the importance of brand image but these are XT's we are talking about here...

Just curious

My understanding is that this plan was made some time ago. When the BA was launched the media were claiming that the car was 'too good' to be associated with a taxi. I am pretty sure I read in either a Wheels or MOTOR magazine that Ford cancelled the taxi pack as a means to distance their new investment in the model away from the AU which was very popular with Taxi fleets.

In terms of today I think these comments from Marin say a lot about their sales/model strategy. Rather than sellling lots of lower profit XT models, their focus as been on the higher value cars that sell well to private buyers and improve the general public perception of the brand. Getting more XR's into the Police force is no doubt another thing on their radar.

Ford President and CEO Marin Burela told CarAdvice that while the Falcon range was selling strongly in general and models such as the XR6, XR6 Turbo and the G6E Turbo were “going great guns” the G6 had become a little lost amongst its stronger-selling siblings.

At a media briefing in Melbourne Mr Burela said that Ford had order books on popular models of the Falcon that stretched out to December or November.
He said XR6 models were currently making up about 43 per cent of all Falcon sales while the base XT model had reduced to 15 per cent, which left the balance to the G-Series, the most popular of which has proved to be the range-topping G6E Turbo.

Artcile on CarAdvice here

[Wally]

There seems to a consistency by members in quoting several supposed facts to support Ford' Oz's sales efforts. These include:

Ford is making profit; has anyone got any proof of this, because the last three financial years have been fizzogs (2008 $274.4m loss, 2007 $87.1m loss, 2006 $40m loss)? The scant figures and reports that I have gleened indicate Ford Oz did not contribute to the the black side of the $11m profit reported for the last quarter of the US reporting period.

Ford don't sell to taxi fleets, but the inference is that Holden do; I have only noticed one VE commodore taxi on the streets in Brisbane and that was a limousine service. Any taxi I have caught has been a Falcon, but I have seen Toyotas. Does anyone have the actual number of FG and VE units sold to taxi fleets?

The Falcons have more inbuilt net profit than the commodore; does anyone have those actual numbers?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to know the foundation of what could well be myths and misdirection.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by Wally

There seems to a consistency by members in quoting several supposed facts to support Ford' Oz's sales efforts. These include:

Ford is making profit; has anyone got any proof of this, because the last three financial years have been fizzogs (2008 $274.4m loss, 2007 $87.1m loss, 2006 $40m loss)? The scant figures and reports that I have gleened indicate Ford Oz did not contribute to the the black side of the $11m profit reported for the last quarter of the US reporting period.

Ford don't sell to taxi fleets, but the inference is that Holden do; I have only noticed one VE commodore taxi on the streets in Brisbane and that was a limousine service. Any taxi I have caught has been a Falcon, but I have seen Toyotas. Does anyone have the actual number of FG and VE units sold to taxi fleets?

The Falcons have more inbuilt net profit than the commodore; does anyone have those actual numbers?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to know the foundation of what could well be myths and misdirection.

Exactly! Refer to my second post on this thread, top of this page, 6th paragraph. Without OFFICIAL figures its all guess work.

BBII

[Chopped]

I think Holden having HDT and then HSV gave them a good head start in the Bogan market.

The Sportswagon has been a success (Ford missed an opportunity) - to deny that is silly.

The Statesmen is doing better as an export.

The clever Territory gets hammered by Captiva in sales - to deny that is silly.

The Falcon ute does well because of the 1 tonne option (Holden was silly to drop theirs)

The Falcon Turbos have been the biggest success and bought new people to the brand. (Holden does not have an answer to this .......yet)

Hyundai is threatening Ford more than Ford is threatening Holden -to deny that is silly.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Blue Beast II

Exactly!

No not exactly ..... you two work for Cars Guide? If you want to win the sales race, buy a Corolla .... If its about being seen in the the 'Most popular" go for it. It is your choice as a consumer to buy and nejoy the product you want ..... if its a Ford, Toyota ... what ever floats your boat.

Talk about 1/2 empty. Please read this from a new member ..... and can someone let me know what plans GM have this year.

Originally Posted by XXXR

Uncy Marin stated in his monthly media address that Ford Australia posted an operating profit in 4Q 2009; while Holden recieved a massive commonwealth government loan last year just to stay afloat!

Ford Tops US Sales in February for the first time in 12 years...

The entire Holden range of GM-Daewoo cars are rubbish...

Coyote V8, Ecoboost, New Egas, New (diesel) Territory, 6-speed Powershift Dual-Clutch Box

230 Million invested last year...

The less Ford Taxi's the better, they give the Falcon name a bad image to the general public; ford realised this years ago and canned the taxi pack.

Ford are selling more Falcons privately, and making more money per car; and importantly: making money. Holden and Toyota can have the fleets and fight over the #1 sales spot.

And we're on the wrong side??
Get Behind Us or Get Out Of The Way!

GM's plan for 2010? Find and rebadge another Daewoo and cross their fingers. Stick 4 more vents and 2 more green badges on the E2.

Ford was the weakest of the three local car makers last year. Toyota produced 128,000 vehicles, the majority of which were exported, Holden built 66,000 vehicles after its export markets collapsed, while Ford built approximately 55,000 vehicles, of which 31,000 were Falcon sedans and wagons.

Despite the low figures, Ford's recently appointed Asia Pacific boss Joe Hinrichs, who has a manufacturing background, says Ford Australia's output of 55,000 cars a year is sustainable and pointed out that Ford Australia turned a profit in the last quarter of 2009.

"We have been moving towards getting more scale in our manufacturing facilities worldwide, but we also have several facilities in the Asia Pacific region and other parts of the world that produce 55,000 vehicles annually or less," he said.

Ford Australia boss Marin Burela said that the company would not have invested $230 million on engineering and development if it was not here to stay.

"It's business as usual for Falcon," he told the Carsales Network. "We will continue to push and grow the Falcon's market share and provide Australians with the motoring needs they are looking for.

"We gained momentum in 2009 and we will build on that momentum in 2010. In 2010 we'll be celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Falcon and we plan to have a great year."

He pointed out that the Falcon sedan outsold the Commodore sedan on two individual months in 2009 (October and November) and increased its market share from 26 per cent to 35 per cent year to year.

If you do notlike to drive or be seen in a FORD because you are not driving the 'Number 1' ...... no one is stopping anyone. Everyone can have a gripe about the goings on at Ford but really ..... when it is just constant whineing about not being number one, buy something else. There is no Grand Final at the end of the year.

For what its worth, the article and the above is good enough for me to say they have made a profit ..... and do not care if it was $1.23. All will be reveiled when the years ends in a few months. Then it will be worthy of a debate to see how things are going.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010...-for-now-17922



| [/url] |

[Revolver]

Ok, let me point out something. What I'm indicating is the dominance of holden over us. Not nessecarily being no 1 on the sales charts. I honestly couldn't care less whos at no 1, if ford is there, great, if not, oh well. Couldn't care less if 'Great Wall' or 'Kia' was there.

What I'm asking, is does anyone know why holden continues to be ahead of us? (two months? against how many years? great, but nothing worth dancing about yet.) Now if holden are selling more cars, & at less profit, they may be lowering the margin, & making up for that in volume. Seen that before in many other things than cars, less margin, more sales, more profit. & what effect does this have on ford as a whole?

With the 31,000 falcons, how many wrere wagons? Now if wagon is indeed gone, then you can kiss that goodbye. Does ford actually realese its info on margins, & profits at financial years end? I think they do. Your right Auslandau, only then can we really get the picture on what is going where.

BBII

[z80]

YES

Next time you pull up at the lights count how many Falcons are there.

Then count how many Commodores.


(Imports by both dont count)

Then add the two up and I bet that both are now a minority.


Forget the Ford Vs Holden crap...it's the imports that are doing it better, and people are voting with their wallets.

[tezxr8man]

Forget the Ford Vs Holden crap...it's the imports that are doing it better, and people are voting with their wallets.[/QUOTE]

Mite have something to do with being a proud Australian and bying australian being uncool??? more and more i'm seeing that the average person thinks that bying Australian is only what bogans do, its the same in the supermarket. no1 cares that they're importing fruit and veges either just as long as they get there 3 cents off,
sorry guys got a lil carried away there
FORD v HOLDEN may not be cool but at least they are still made here and we should be tryin to keep them here and ours