Australian cars...is "good enough", good enough...?

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by stang65

But aren`t factory sunroofs installed by a third party now for both Holden and Ford?

Doesn't matter. You can't option a sunroof in a Falcon from the factory - Holden you can. Why?

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

This may sound silly to some, but the 'no sunroof option' is the reason why I don't have a new Falcon sitting in my driveway. I have the cash to buy a new car, I've been ready to buy a new Ford since 2009, but I want one with the lot from FACTORY. Once again Ford misses the boat. And please, no excuse like "they didn't sell many to warrant the cost". That's the defeatist attitude that has seen our wagon, XR8 and Fairlanes disappear. I hope FGII have a factory sunroof option.

That's not an excuse...that's a fact.

There's no defeatist attitude anywhere - a business CAN'T prosper if the products aren't selling...and if they kept them because a 'few' people wanted them...well, you wouldn't be buying a Falcon next year, or every again for that matter.


I think a few of you need to step into the real world...

[G6E Turbo 2]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

This may sound silly to some, but the 'no sunroof option' is the reason why I don't have a new Falcon sitting in my driveway. I have the cash to buy a new car, I've been ready to buy a new Ford since 2009, but I want one with the lot from FACTORY. Once again Ford misses the boat. And please, no excuse like "they didn't sell many to warrant the cost". That's the defeatist attitude that has seen our wagon, XR8 and Fairlanes disappear. I hope FGII have a factory sunroof option.

I was told when I asked that NO Sunroof offer was because it could not be sold with a 5 star safety rating

My G6ET is the best car I have ever had , bar none, and I've had plenty

The only problem I have with them is the warranty It really should and needs to be 5 years unlimited
They seem to have the old egg timer on them , as the 100K or 3 years roll around So the car has problems

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

That's not an excuse...that's a fact.

There's no defeatist attitude anywhere - a business CAN'T prosper if the products aren't selling...and if they kept them because a 'few' people wanted them...well, you wouldn't be buying a Falcon next year, or every again for that matter.


I think a few of you need to step into the real world...

But that's what's happening!!! There won't be a Falcon soon. What next, decontent power windows?

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by G6E Turbo 2

I was told when I asked that NO Sunroof offer was because it could not be sold with a 5 star safety rating

My G6ET is the best car I have ever had , bar none, and I've had plenty

The only problem I have with them is the warranty It really should and needs to be 5 years unlimited
They seem to have the old egg timer on them , as the 100K or 3 years roll around So the car has problems

Yes, I remember that as well. So is that an engineering failure then? How come every other car can get 5 star ANCAP with a sunroof. And I would rather have a 'no star' ANCAP rating and be able to option the car to my liking. It's not as if the 5 star ANCAP award has helped sales.

And I still disagree with you Sezzy. If people see that you are removing options, getting rid of models, whether they wanted them or not, they get a sense that a company is cutting corners and winding down. ESPECIALLY if the main competitor has kept all those equivalent models and options.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

But that's what's happening!!! There won't be a Falcon soon. What next, decontent power windows?

Don't be ridiculous... They're not out to get you, they're out to make money, and if the above is true...and you got an optioned sun-roof, would you be happy with no 5 star ancap rating to have your 'luxury'?

If you really want a sunroof...go get one after market...you do really want a Falcon don't you? Because if you've been waiting for two years to buy one with a sunroof...it seems you're not really interested in buying a new Falcon at all...and you're looking for an excuse.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Don't be ridiculous... They're not out to get you, they're out to make money, and if the above is true...and you got an optioned sun-roof, would you be happy with no 5 star ancap rating to have your 'luxury'?

If you really want a sunroof...go get one after market...you do really want a Falcon don't you? Because if you've been waiting for two years to buy one with a sunroof...it seems you're not really interested in buying a new Falcon at all...and you're looking for an excuse.

1. Yes I would be happy with no 5 star ANCAP rating. Have a look at the cars in my sig; not exactly 5 star safety there - don't need it.

2. I don't want to cut a hole in the roof of my $50000 + car. Again look at my sig, none of my cars have a sunroof only because I bought them second hand at a fraction of what they cost when they were new and I can't bring myself to cut a hole in the roof. If I'm spending that amount of coin on an XR6T or G6ET, I would like to have the factory take responsibility for installing the sunroof.

3. I am interested in a new Falcon. BUT the way that I want it. It's a lot of money to shell out to not be 100% satisfied. I always said I will never buy a new car unless I can have it the way I want it.

[mik]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Here goes my 2 cents … I was not born here in this country, I migrated here ages ago and hence I do not have the “standard” Australian attitude to things …

When I look at cars, I don’t just look at something that will get me from point A to point B, but something that I will also enjoy driving. I’m not a brand whore and has never been one, hence I do not look at the badge, instead I look at what the car has to offer to me from based on my preferred criteria.

Looking at the Australian car market I can see that cars are ridiculously overpriced here, especially once you start going up higher up the price range … this leads to a market that is very different to what you may see in many other countries. I also believe this massive price disparity alters many products (i.e. cars models of various brands) from their originally intended market target audience envisaged by the manufacturer which as a result leads to a market position that is much harder to understand/analyse.

When I look at Ford (Falcadore) or Holden (commonhore) I can see two good products which seem to have found a unique position in the Australian market by offering what other makers simply cannot or do not in the same price range. There is no point comparing a Ford or a Holden to 100K+ Euro products as they simply are not positioned to compete against them in the Australian market. When comparing Ford/Holden in their respective price segments then things don’t actually look so bad, what does however become a factor is the criteria that each buyer uses to evaluate a product when purchasing a vehicle.

Here I will give an example:
If large size, great performance, and handling are your top criteria to evaluate a car then the Holden/Ford have it in spades. There are simply no other products under 60K that will offer you the same size, engine performance and handling levels from Japanse or Euro offerings. (here I’m talking about the XR6turbo, SS …)

If large size, cheap purchasing price, cheap running costs, safety, and a workhorse are your top criteria to evaluate a car then again Holden/Ford have this in spades. In the 30K price bracket the cheap XR6 or similar deals are great as you get a very large car, very safe car, cheap to run car (maintenance), a car that will do 500 thousand Kms (taxi), and generally a great workhorse for people living in remote country areas ….

However if what you want is super fuel economy, superb interior build finish and quality, small size, and latest gizmos then yes you are better off buying something made in Japan or similar …

Ford and Holden have very finite budgets which on a world scale are miniscule … you just simply cannot expect them to deliver you every element of a car in spades and yet maintain a cheap price (Australian market wise) … Japanese manufacturers sacrifice in size, performance, handling, driver involvement, and so forth to achieve quality, design, efficiency … Australian manufacturers sacrifice the opposite mostly … and I hope they will never stop!!!

best post in this thread imo.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

And I still disagree with you Sezzy. If people see that you are removing options, getting rid of models, whether they wanted them or not, they get a sense that a company is cutting corners and winding down. ESPECIALLY if the main competitor has kept all those equivalent models and options.

Since when? They have removed models that weren't selling...you want them to go bust to suit a small minority?

Originally Posted by eb2monty

1. Yes I would be happy with no 5 star ANCAP rating. Have a look at the cars in my sig; not exactly 5 star safety there - don't need it.

2. I don't want to cut a hole in the roof of my $50000 + car. Again look at my sig, none of my cars have a sunroof only because I bought them second hand at a fraction of what they cost when they were new and I can't bring myself to cut a hole in the roof. If I'm spending that amount of coin on an XR6T or G6ET, I would like to have the factory take responsibility for installing the sunroof.

3. I am interested in a new Falcon. BUT the way that I want it. It's a lot of money to shell out to not be 100% satisfied. I always said I will never buy a new car unless I can have it the way I want it.

You obviously don't transport kids or loved ones - but believe it or not, people do buy vehicles for the safety rating.

If you don't want to cut a hole for your sunroof, that's your perogative, it's also Ford's perogative to not sell a vehicle that doesn't meet their standards, or their sales goals.

If you want a sunroof that badly...go buy a Holden. It's not like you've been supporting the Falcon brand buying second hand cars anyway...

I think the thing a lot of people forget is that our car manufacturers...AREN'T euro manufacturer's. We don't have the population or the money that these other countries have to go out an blow on all that technology. Most of these other cars are manufactured in Asian countries...why? Because of the cheap labour. Australian's wages are still higher than these European countries. So without axing jobs, and sending manufacturing offshore...how else do you really expect companies such as Ford and Holden to survive in Australia.

People can't keep comparing our Australian made cars to euro cars - it's like comparing apples and potatoes...

The little 'niggles' that come out from people seem to be an excuse for people not to buy a Ford. You know what, the diff has been replaced in the FG already, it's not even 2 years old - but...I'd still buy another one.

I was actually having a thought about this last night, with regard to these 'niggles' that have come out...is it Ford itself that is the problem?? Or is it who they've employed to do their QA/QC work? The vehicles come out, there's a bit of paint missing - what's the standard? Do they send it back, and get it repainted? Is there an Australian standard with regard to new cars and where the paint needs to be?

I bet if you looked really hard, you'd find the same 'niggles' in euro cars...I'm not sure any of you are actually really looking for problems in other cars - just another excuse to bag out local manufacturers...

If the comparison is always going to be between other cars and Ford/Holden...no, 'good enough' isn't good enough...but it never will be, even when it is, because you'll find something else wrong with it.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I think the thing a lot of people forget is that our car manufacturers...AREN'T euro manufacturer's. We don't have the population or the money that these other countries have to go out an blow on all that technology. Most of these other cars are manufactured in Asian countries...why? Because of the cheap labour. Australian's wages are still higher than these European countries. So without axing jobs, and sending manufacturing offshore...how else do you really expect companies such as Ford and Holden to survive in Australia.

Who's fault is that?
Ford and Holden are local arms of very large international organisations. Ford worldwide has made quite big profits of late.
The technology people expect in the Falcon doesn't need to have any R&D put into it, it is already available and has been on other cars for a long time (simple things like auto windows up, Xenon lights for luxury models, LED tail lights, key less entry and start, etc). Look at the tech available in the Mondeo. Why can't Ford AU fit that into their Falcons? It really is a cop out by Ford AU. We're not expecting them to bring S-Class technology to the range just something to elevate them into the 21st century.

People can't keep comparing our Australian made cars to euro cars - it's like comparing apples and potatoes...

Why is that?

The little 'niggles' that come out from people seem to be an excuse for people not to buy a Ford. You know what, the diff has been replaced in the FG already, it's not even 2 years old - but...I'd still buy another one.

You may want to spend 50k+ on a car and be happy with the substandard workmanship and engineering on it, you may be happy to keep taking the car back into the workshop to have these "small" nigglies fixed but for me when I spend that kind of money I expect better. I do expect some small problems but replacing a diff within 2 years? Please.

I was actually having a thought about this last night, with regard to these 'niggles' that have come out...is it Ford itself that is the problem?? Or is it who they've employed to do their QA/QC work? The vehicles come out, there's a bit of paint missing - what's the standard? Do they send it back, and get it repainted? Is there an Australian standard with regard to new cars and where the paint needs to be?

The components supplied by third parties are built to Ford specification.
The quality of the final product is up to the QC at Ford and the third party, at the supplier it has to ensure the product meets Ford's specification.
As for the paint example, I don't think they check, both my Falcons came out with no paint under the doors and in the XR8 the inside of the bootlid wasn't painted. Both times the dealer sent it to the local panel beater to be sprayed. Ford cannot put them back onto the production line.

I bet if you looked really hard, you'd find the same 'niggles' in euro cars...I'm not sure any of you are actually really looking for problems in other cars - just another excuse to bag out local manufacturers...

If the comparison is always going to be between other cars and Ford/Holden...no, 'good enough' isn't good enough...but it never will be, even when it is, because you'll find something else wrong with it.

Of course there are some nigglies in all cars. I drive a Euro car now, have had it for over three years and in those three years I have had to have the stereo replaced and a diaphragm in the PCV valve upgraded. These are a fraction of the problems I experienced with both Falcons.
Until Ford improve their products I will never buy another local made product. If I wanted a bigger car from Ford (if I was to get a Ford) it would be a Mondeo, far better value for money, better quality and just as much if not more interior room.

Until Ford and Holden aim a little higher in terms of quality and value for money with the large cars, they're going to continue to miss the mark and continue the downward trend of sales. Other products in their range will come up and over take.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Who's fault is that?
Ford and Holden are local arms of very large international organisations. Ford worldwide has made quite big profits of late.
The technology people expect in the Falcon doesn't need to have any R&D put into it, it is already available and has been on other cars for a long time (simple things like auto windows up, Xenon lights for luxury models, LED tail lights, key less entry and start, etc). Look at the tech available in the Mondeo. Why can't Ford AU fit that into their Falcons? It really is a cop out by Ford AU. We're not expecting them to bring S-Class technology to the range just something to elevate them into the 21st century.

I think a lot of the 'why can't the put this in a Falcon' etc comes from the fact that Euro cars have it all already. But I think what you need to remember is, as you have pointed out, Ford Oz is just an 'outpost' of a parent company, where Mercedes Benz, BMW etc ARE the parent company for all intents and purposes. Therefore you don't have as many issues with having to convince the bean counters that it is a good idea.

Regardless of where a car is built things can still go wrong with it. I actually think a lot of the appeal with Falcons is that they are so 'simple' - if a bulb goes you can go to any auto store, spend $2 and put a new one in. If its an LED you're up for god knows how much AND if its European you could be waiting weeks for the part to get here and then be fitted to your car.

Until Ford and Holden aim a little higher in terms of quality and value for money with the large cars, they're going to continue to miss the mark and continue the downward trend of sales. Other products in their range will come up and over take.

I dont agree with the 'value for money' bit - $65k gets you maybe what, a BMW Diesel SUV? No idea. 65k in Ford or Holden gets you a RWD 'muscle car' with performance that you would be spending 6 figures in Euro territory to get.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

People can't keep comparing our Australian made cars to euro cars - it's like comparing apples and potatoes...

Yet we're all quick to claim how the Falcon or Commodore is "World Class". Can't have it both ways.

[RAREV8]

I agree with Sezzy on most of this- sure, I reckon the finish below parr and they tend to get clunky after 60000kms but they are still pretty good value......I'm repeating a comment I made in another thread but I need a big car that tows, has folding rear seats and is comfy......criteria filled that the fwd offerings cannot.......if anyone is too brown with their late model falcon, please come and swap it for my aurion!

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Since when? They have removed models that weren't selling...you want them to go bust to suit a small minority?




You obviously don't transport kids or loved ones - but believe it or not, people do buy vehicles for the safety rating.

If you don't want to cut a hole for your sunroof, that's your perogative, it's also Ford's perogative to not sell a vehicle that doesn't meet their standards, or their sales goals.

If you want a sunroof that badly...go buy a Holden. It's not like you've been supporting the Falcon brand buying second hand cars anyway...

I think the thing a lot of people forget is that our car manufacturers...AREN'T euro manufacturer's. We don't have the population or the money that these other countries have to go out an blow on all that technology. Most of these other cars are manufactured in Asian countries...why? Because of the cheap labour. Australian's wages are still higher than these European countries. So without axing jobs, and sending manufacturing offshore...how else do you really expect companies such as Ford and Holden to survive in Australia.

People can't keep comparing our Australian made cars to euro cars - it's like comparing apples and potatoes...

The little 'niggles' that come out from people seem to be an excuse for people not to buy a Ford. You know what, the diff has been replaced in the FG already, it's not even 2 years old - but...I'd still buy another one.

I was actually having a thought about this last night, with regard to these 'niggles' that have come out...is it Ford itself that is the problem?? Or is it who they've employed to do their QA/QC work? The vehicles come out, there's a bit of paint missing - what's the standard? Do they send it back, and get it repainted? Is there an Australian standard with regard to new cars and where the paint needs to be?

I bet if you looked really hard, you'd find the same 'niggles' in euro cars...I'm not sure any of you are actually really looking for problems in other cars - just another excuse to bag out local manufacturers...

If the comparison is always going to be between other cars and Ford/Holden...no, 'good enough' isn't good enough...but it never will be, even when it is, because you'll find something else wrong with it.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Yet we're all quick to claim how the Falcon or Commodore is "World Class". Can't have it both ways.

No entirely true, and its just marketing fluff.

It is a fact that regarding some aspects of the car the local's are just as good, if not better than the others...but it will be a long time until the overall package is right...if ever, because if things stay as is then global cars will always be better than localized, thats not rocket science.

You may very well compare a new GT to a AMG C63, and it may very well be a quicker car, the question is how much do you value everything else in the package? Is having better plastics worth the extra $60k or whatever the difference is.

Everyone's thresholds are different, but the GT can claim to have "world class" acceleration, hard to dispute that.

[anto]

Originally Posted by blk6t

Good post, I was thinking asbout this on the weekend when car shopping for the missus and myself, yes buying 2 cars....

For me its a new FPV, just need to find the right one for the right price, but I am an enthusiast and I consider enthusiasts to sit outside the "norm".

From my wifes perspective we looked at Mazda, Ford, Subaru & VW. To be honest, when we sat in a Falcon G6E and it felt less equipped than the cheaper slightly smaller cars that we looked at. The first thing my wife said was "It's WAY too big", and i'm sure most female drivers would say the same.

We have settled on a brand new SP25, 6sp manual, and after a test drive the car felt really tight, quiet, well built and very well equipped. It makes me wonder, why should people buy a large Falcodore for nearly $40k when they can walk away with a slightly smaller $30k new car that is more equipped????

The average Ma and Pa with 2 kids, mortgage with rising costs of living don't care about powerful engines or RWD, something that we enthusiasts LOVE and appreciate and I am sure most will continue to buy V8's even if petrol hits $2/litre...I know I will.

If it were up to me, the FG Falcon would have been:
- Slightly smaller (closer to Mondeo size)
- Lighter
- No XT
- Better equipped
- The G series would have been G6 / G6E / G6ET
- The XR series would have been XR6 / XR6E / XR6T

I think there is a greater divide between affordable cars and luxury cars, the Falcon IMHO sits put there where middle class consideres too expensive and where the more wealthier considers cheap. The Falcon needs to shift to a smaller, cheaper car with RWD and it would tick alot more boxes on purchasers lists.

I have too much thinking time on the train trips to and from work...

interestingly and as a counter point to this, My Mrs wanted a mazda 6 before we bought the FG, thinking it was more suitable and looked good with all the fancy stuff like Bose sound electric sunroof etc.. so went ahead and bought a fully optioned one against my better judgement. Six months later she wanted out, absolutely hated how it drove from the FWD , lack of power and terrible ride quality. Mind you this was coming from a BA Ghia that she had beem driving. From there we bought the FG and she absolutely loves it as do I, it does everything you want it to and feels a lot more solid. A very expensive lesson but there you go.Ther was no hug gap in quality, in fact the falcon is equal if not better.
. We didnt pay a lot for the FG and it has everything you could want, 18's premium sound, safety pack inc elec pedals for the short Mrs... saftey for the kids which the smaller Mazda lacks ( im talking size here ). Everything except the sunroof that we wanted. I know you can go aftermarket but then warranty gets a bit murky,..factory fitted and delivered is always better.

Just goes to show how different people see things differently.

[blk6t]

Originally Posted by anto

interestingly and as a counter point to this, My Mrs wanted a mazda 6 before we bought the FG, thinking it was more suitable and looked good with all the fancy stuff like Bose sound electric sunroof etc.. so went ahead and bought a fully optioned one against my better judgement. Six months later she wanted out, absolutely hated how it drove from the FWD , lack of power and terrible ride quality. Mind you this was coming from a BA Ghia that she had beem driving. From there we bought the FG and she absolutely loves it as do I, it does everything you want it to and feels a lot more solid. A very expensive lesson but there you go.Ther was no hug gap in quality, in fact the falcon is equal if not better.
. We didnt pay a lot for the FG and it has everything you could want, 18's premium sound, safety pack inc elec pedals for the short Mrs... saftey for the kids which the smaller Mazda lacks ( im talking size here ). Everything except the sunroof that we wanted. I know you can go aftermarket but then warranty gets a bit murky,..factory fitted and delivered is always better.

Just goes to show how different people see things differently.

Ahh, good to read, I did want (and still do as a Falcon fan) the missus to get the Falcon but its just too big for her, my wife is 5 foot nothing and currently drives a Fiesta. Its a BIG change of cars, she did borrow the inlaws SSV for a bit due to her car being repaired and she hated it (not because its a Holden haha), it was just way too big for her and the auto was horrid!

We did drive the Mazda 6 and agree, didn't like it...bigger than the 3 and floaty. We were set on the Focus $25,000 drive away deal but the SP25 feels a generation ahead which is a shame because I really do like the current Focus and she doesn't really like the new Focus coming out soon.

Picky Wife I know!

We loved the TSI Golf but servicing costs etc is a turn off, so the SP25 ticks more boxes. The 2.5 litre is a good motor for the car especially in manual form.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

If you want a sunroof that badly...go buy a Holden. It's not like you've been supporting the Falcon brand buying second hand cars anyway...

If you hadn't noticed, I'm a Ford man, so I'm not going to buy a Holden. I'm talking about a sunroof here mate; a basic 'option' that should be on the list. I'm not asking for them to be a $200k euro car.

And don't tell me that I haven't supported the Falcon brand. The amount that I have spent on genuine FORD parts from my local Ford dealer over the years is more support than you could imagine. Some say it's the spare parts where they make their real profits.

[xtremerus]

eb2monty
A sunroof is not a 'basic' option that should be available on all cars in this "Sunburnt Country". Just get an aftermarket one fitted, covered by their warranty.

So few people would probably order a "factory" sunroof on an FG, that is probably why Ford don't option it.

By your reasoning, Ford should build me a XT FG with turbo motor, because I want one. Tough! Get over it
.
My current ute is the FG XR6T which cannot be optioned as a cab-chassis, from the factory. How hard is it to not put a tub on it?????

Who cares. Just change it to what you want.
Dealer just took tub off and fitted my tray, in the price.
It's not 'factory', but why worry.

Unless you are wanting to have a unique rare 'factory' car to sell in 30 years time

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

eb2monty

By your reasoning, Ford should build me a XT FG with turbo motor, because I want one. Tough! Get over it

Seems like the general public ARE over it. But hey, let's just be apathetic and 'she'll be right'.

It will be a sad day when Ford manufacturing is over in Australia.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

If you hadn't noticed, I'm a Ford man, so I'm not going to buy a Holden. I'm talking about a sunroof here mate; a basic 'option' that should be on the list. I'm not asking for them to be a $200k euro car.

And don't tell me that I haven't supported the Falcon brand. The amount that I have spent on genuine FORD parts from my local Ford dealer over the years is more support than you could imagine. Some say it's the spare parts where they make their real profits.

A sunroof is not a 'basic' option...I can give you one good reason why you wouldn't get a sunroof...this...

http://www.caradvice.com.au/103004/w...-in-australia/

More than 20,000 Ford and Holden vehicles built between 2002 and 2008 have been recalled due to a potential defect with the factory fitted sunroofs.

Holden has been forced to recall 14,612 vehicles with factory fitted sunroofs built between 2002 and 2006. Affected models include: AH Astra, V2/VZ Monaro, VX/VY/VZ Commodore, WH/WK/WL Statesman and Caprice.

A total of 5658 affected Ford vehicles were built between May 8, 2002 and March 7, 2008. Recalled models include: BA/BA II/BF/BF II Falcon, Fairlane, LTD and FPV vehicles.

Your 'basic' option from a third party supplier...has caused a mass of grief for both Ford and Holden...and you want it as standard? You're dreaming...

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Seems like the general public ARE over it. But hey, let's just be apathetic and 'she'll be right'.

It will be a sad day when Ford manufacturing is over in Australia.

There's no apathy, just realism....you want a specific car...one that Ford isn't going to give you, and one of the most obvious reasons is above...

[P6LTD351]

Yeah the recall is convenient for the argument.

With that logic, I guess Ford don't make ball joints anymore because of the Territory saga?

Fact of the matter is, Ford does not offer a sunroof because they couldn't get a 5 star ANCAP rating with one. Great job.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Yeah the recall is convenient for the argument.

With that logic, I guess Ford don't make ball joints anymore because of the Territory saga?

Fact of the matter is, Ford does not offer a sunroof because they couldn't get a 5 star ANCAP rating with one. Great job.

Convenient? It was the second biggest recall behind the US! We have 22 million, they have 300 million...how is that convenient?

There's a multitude of reasons why you can't have a sunroof...these are two, neither convenient, but both bleedingly obvious to those who know how big business works.

[monstermk2]

of course, our cars are awesome, they can handle everything

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Convenient? It was the second biggest recall behind the US! We have 22 million, they have 300 million...how is that convenient?

There's a multitude of reasons why you can't have a sunroof...these are two, neither convenient, but both bleedingly obvious to those who know how big business works.

The FG was released in 2008 without sunroof option. Recall happened years after. Not related whatsoever.

[Falc'man]

BF Futura here.

For the price, yes, they're unbeatable. I say this because it's never let me down, it's a spacious car with effortless power, and has the features that I need. When shopping for all the above there was absolutely nothing that came close.

I knew I could crash through our sub standard roads and come out the side with only the false teeth needing adjustment (jk).

I knew that with half-throttle the cars beside me would be reduced to a few specs in the mirror before I've reached the speed limit.

It's done over 100k and it's still powerful, solid and smooth. Love it!

And also, it's a Ford.

[MexicanBatman]

Dude I wouldn't trade the lack of sunroof option in my FG when compared to a VE anyday over their no cost option of no visibility out of the cabin, most likely due to the giant windscreen pillars, probably there so they can have a hole in the roof and decent crash rating

Also if I'm not mistaken, the FG has always been 5* where as the VE was 4* and later upgraded

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by b2tf

I think a lot of the 'why can't the put this in a Falcon' etc comes from the fact that Euro cars have it all already. But I think what you need to remember is, as you have pointed out, Ford Oz is just an 'outpost' of a parent company, where Mercedes Benz, BMW etc ARE the parent company for all intents and purposes. Therefore you don't have as many issues with having to convince the bean counters that it is a good idea.

Hence why I keep trying to emphasise the point that Ford AU don't have to engineer the technology when Ford EU and or Ford NA have done that already. The only requirement here is to fit it into the local car. It is a global company it is about time they started acting like one. Bring on "One Ford."

Regardless of where a car is built things can still go wrong with it. I actually think a lot of the appeal with Falcons is that they are so 'simple' - if a bulb goes you can go to any auto store, spend $2 and put a new one in. If its an LED you're up for god knows how much AND if its European you could be waiting weeks for the part to get here and then be fitted to your car.

LED are far more efficient and serve longer.
That's fine you can stay with the old tech, use a carby instead of EFI, damn those electrics they're just so expensive and provide no advantage whatsoever, while you're at it why not hand crank your car?

I dont agree with the 'value for money' bit - $65k gets you maybe what, a BMW Diesel SUV? No idea. 65k in Ford or Holden gets you a RWD 'muscle car' with performance that you would be spending 6 figures in Euro territory to get.

That would be the advantage of subsidised local manufacturing. You could look at it the other way, in Germany what would 65k AUD get you? A 335i BMW coupe (61k AUD 46k EU) in OZ it is 100K and with limited features. What would the cost of sending a GT over there?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Seems like the general public ARE over it. But hey, let's just be apathetic and 'she'll be right'.

It will be a sad day when Ford manufacturing is over in Australia.

So where is your 21st century Falcon?

You whinge about sunroofs but there are squillions of AU, BA & BFs all fitted with factory sunroofs.

Be aware that they all cost more than $50 though.......

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Hence why I keep trying to emphasise the point that Ford AU don't have to engineer the technology when Ford EU and or Ford NA have done that already. The only requirement here is to fit it into the local car. It is a global company it is about time they started acting like one. Bring on "One Ford."

It's not a mechano set that you car just slip in to place and say 'awesome, it's done.' Okay, so there's no engineering, there still needs to be development. A falcon isn't a fiesta, a focus, or any other euro made/asian made car. It might be a global company, but the Falcon is a completely different car, and therefore needs to have it's own R&D done on it, which costs money...

Originally Posted by Wretched

That would be the advantage of subsidised local manufacturing. You could look at it the other way, in Germany what would 65k AUD get you? A 335i BMW coupe (61k AUD 46k EU) in OZ it is 100K and with limited features. What would the cost of sending a GT over there?

GT would be greatly reduced in price going overseas...

The average markup on a car from a dealership is 35% (or so I've been led to believe).

So if it was to go standard from factory, with no markup, you could potentially send it overseas for (I only found G6ET prices at $53250 from a dealership)...$34612.50. That's if the price I found was actually marked up 35%...

BMW and Ford aren't even comparable if that is true...it's 30k less car...

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

It's not a mechano set that you car just slip in to place and say 'awesome, it's done.' Okay, so there's no engineering, there still needs to be development. A falcon isn't a fiesta, a focus, or any other euro made/asian made car. It might be a global company, but the Falcon is a completely different car, and therefore needs to have it's own R&D done on it, which costs money...

I have said many times in previous posts that it isn't just a snap in fit it does require R&D costs to FIT IT into the Falcon but those costs are a fraction of those initial costs to develop the technology. The cost of fitting the tech would accounted for during development and really in the grand scheme of things, how much would it cost in R&D to fit for example auto up windows to a Falcon?
Yes the Falcon isn't a Focus or Fiesta but funnily enough most technology can be fitted to other cars, we're not asking for Falcon specific technology here. You do realise the control blade IRS was originally from the Focus and then developed for RWD?

BMW and Ford aren't even comparable if that is true...it's 30k less car...

It wasn't me who compared. See the post I quoted.