177 in a 60 zone! WHAT ON EARTH!

[TMC]

I think these situations are a symptom of a much more complex massive problem than any of us can really comprehend. Society in general has no regard for the law anymore in the main, and no respect for authority or just other people. If you don't care about anyone you may be involved in a high speed pursuit where you are being chased. Cops may chase you and because you are on drugs, drunk, or just can't drive, may crash and die. If you don't want to fall out of a tree and kill yourself, don't climb it.

[EDManual]

The law shouldnt be so harsh on little things like speeding on country roads in the middle of nowhere to cause people to think doing a runner may be a good option.

Its the Govts fault.
In the past, back when I was driving faster than now, ie er hundreds rather than 100 for hours on end, i would have pulled over kinda happily, knowing I would get a few hundred dollar fine and lose my licence for 2 months or 3 or whatever. Now its what a year or more, $1000s, lose your car etc etc. Maybe I would have tried to keep going these days... not that I do that anymore.

[Dave3911]

I think people might be missing the point a little on this particular scenario. The issue here isn't whether police should pursue, the issue here is police officers involved in a pursuit being deceptive about reporting their speeds, and following correct termination protocol, in an effort to continue pursing someone they normally wouldn't.

Victoria Police (like all other police around the country) have strict processes in place to control how pursuits are run. Two things are crucial.

Firstly is Pursuit Control. This is done by an officer, not involved in the pursuit, of rank SGT or above and if possible a direct line supervisor of the initial pursuing unit. The idea behind this is to give a little 'distance' from the pursuit and the thrill of the chase. Most coppers in casual conversation will say how they dislike pursuits and that they are too risky, but in my experience, as soon as the chase is on it all goes out the window - adrenaline takes over and they go hammer and nail to get their man. The person making the decision to terminate or not needs to be as far removed from that adrenaline as possible.

Because this controller is not involved directly with the pursuit themselves, the idea is for them to be able to easily keep a level head and consider all risk factors, continually doing a dynamic risk assessment. Really the only thing they have to go by to do this, is the information being fed from the pursuing unit(s). They are trained to constantly give location, speed, traffic conditions and weather. Arguably, the most important one is speed. If police involved in pursuits misrepresent their speed - how can a controller make a proper decision on the continuation of a pursuit?

The second thing is how they handle requests to terminate. Policy is really clear on this one. An audible tone is played across police radio as soon as direction to terminate is given. It's the ONLY time it is played and it ONLY means one thing. All units are then required to verbally confirm that termination. In the field, termination means lights and sirens off, STOP your vehicle and await direction. The issue with this particular case is that these guys have been proven to have ignored this policy and whilst they slowed, they didn't slow considerably and were, quite possibly, still within view of the target vehicle as it crashed.

Also - a point some people seem to be brushing over with this one is that there was also an innocent victim to this. The car he collided with had a single, female, passenger who suffered serious injuries that she will never fully recover from.

If your wondering where this information comes from - the findings are public, available here ===> http://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/...+shane+bennett

I think it's key with situations like this to try to tar all police with the same brush. It's not as if all police intentionally lie about their speeds, nor does it necessarily mean that all pursuits are dangerous. Hundreds of pursuits happen every year in Victoria without incident - quite a lot of them terminated before injury to anyone or result in a successful conclusion and subsequent arrest.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by sexyxe

This post has the most up and down of any on here.

I also think it shows a pretty poor understanding of both the arguement and the other potential outcomes and methods which can be used.



Didn't the bloke that died crash when the police were NO LONGER in pursuit anyways?!

Please explain further, I gave more then enough alternatives and other possible outcomes that are all viable.

He died being chased as the cops ignored the warning to call the chase off.

Originally Posted by TMC

I think these situations are a symptom of a much more complex massive problem than any of us can really comprehend. Society in general has no regard for the law anymore in the main, and no respect for authority or just other people. If you don't care about anyone you may be involved in a high speed pursuit where you are being chased. Cops may chase you and because you are on drugs, drunk, or just can't drive, may crash and die. If you don't want to fall out of a tree and kill yourself, don't climb it.

I understand your idea, but I'd like to point out that (rough estimate) 80% of cops made it bad for themselves, even my brother who had caused only one speeding offence of 10km/h over the speed limit had cops who every day and night waiting for him outside his house to catch him without a license.

The police demolished their own respect, and also ruined it for the good cops, and continue to this day to have a rather pathetic attitude.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by XR6Naranja

Please explain further, I gave more then enough alternatives and other possible outcomes that are all viable.

He died being chased as the cops ignored the warning to call the chase off.



I understand your idea, but I'd like to point out that (rough estimate) 80% of cops made it bad for themselves, even my brother who had caused only one speeding offence of 10km/h over the speed limit had cops who every day and night waiting for him outside his house to catch him without a license.

The police demolished their own respect, and also ruined it for the good cops, and continue to this day to have a rather pathetic attitude.

where did this 80% figure come from.. out of your bottom????..
also your brother sounds much the *** hat to deserve such police attention..
one speeding offence.. no license.. police waiting every day / night outside his house..

please explain further...........

[Dave3911]

Police waiting outside the houses of suspended/disqualified drivers in the morning and late evening (to/from work times) is common practice. I fail to see the issue.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Police waiting outside the houses of suspended/disqualified drivers in the morning and late evening (to/from work times) is common practice. I fail to see the issue.

Originally Posted by pottery beige

where did this 80% figure come from.. out of your bottom????..
also your brother sounds much the *** hat to deserve such police attention..
one speeding offence.. no license.. police waiting every day / night outside his house..

please explain further...........

Words are mis-leading, he didn't lose his license, they were trying to catch him leaving his actual license in the house, on a constant basis, this was many years ago before cops got a lot of attention for constant harassment.

Also under the impression you can't read, I said rough estimate, so not only is it an estimate, it was very rough, it was simply based off the cops that I've dealt with or met and the cops that friends of mine in the police force dealt with, whether it's 80% or 20% they've ruined it for themselves, many people have been let off after giving a reasonable explanation, and their respect level goes up for cops, many get pulled over for small things or insulted by the police for nothing, respect level drops, they've done it to themselves, I was pulled up at 8AM, on a Wednesday and was asked if I had been drinking, the cop pulled an illegal u-turn on a highway that was hugely busy and cut off another car, it's easy to see how many people can hate them.

Despite your insults to my family, these cops did not need to watch my brother, and never did they have anything against him each time he left the house, the house was in an un-populated area and each drive way was 50+ meters away from the other, so it was bleeding obvious.

Although I'd like to think it has something to do with cops being biased to what sort of car you drive, oh and that comes from a cop who was taught to be... He drove a Valiant Charger, he was targeted, I drive an XR6 and compared to everyone else in their Charades and Pulsars who haven't been pulled over to this day, I'm targeted.

[mcnews]

Hoon laws only cause more people to do runners. I shudder to think how early I would have been locked up in my youth under today's draconian legislation.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by XR6Naranja

I understand your idea, but I'd like to point out that (rough estimate) 80% of cops made it bad for themselves, even my brother who had caused only one speeding offence of 10km/h over the speed limit had cops who every day and night waiting for him outside his house to catch him without a license.

So police would have a 24/7 rotating shift sitting outside your brother's house who had a single 10km/h over offence to make sure he always carried his licence?! Seriously?!

[pottery beige]

apparently so......

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by Kevaclone

......or the bit about restricting all vehicles to 125 since that is above the max limit in every part of Aust except for NT, but it's only 5kh slower, and how many people venture there anyway?

Kev

Pfffft........

So because you don't come here then just override the rights of us that do??

Time to remove your head from somewhere dark I think!!!!

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by Rodp

So police would have a 24/7 rotating shift sitting outside your brother's house who had a single 10km/h over offence to make sure he always carried his licence?! Seriously?!

Can't say for times exactly, but I can definitely say it's not a tale my brother told as I was there to see it.

Wasn't a HUGE town, so I'd say there wasn't much use for them anywhere else.

They'd pull him over to find whatever they could on him, bald tyres, no license, simply to charge him further, as fake as it sounds...

It was only him too as my other brother never had a problem leaving the house..

He was a Hoon, but always legal about it, so private property, and designated areas, maybe another reason for them?

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by XR6Naranja

I understand your idea, but I'd like to point out that (rough estimate) 80% of cops made it bad for themselves, even my brother who had caused only one speeding offence of 10km/h over the speed limit had cops who every day and night waiting for him outside his house to catch him without a license.

The police demolished their own respect, and also ruined it for the good cops, and continue to this day to have a rather pathetic attitude.

Firstly, where are you getting 80% from? You've just pulled a number out of no where.

Secondly, All these posts about you and your brother, and how your targeted by police has nothing to do with this thread. Not to mention how far you're reaching with these so called stories about how the Police are out to get both of you.

If you take a step back and read some of the other posts in this thread, have a read of one by Dave3911. His posts indicate he is either a current or past sworn or un-sworn member of Victoria Police and has said above that Police staking out houses isn't a rare thing. But your post about how your brother is targeted day and night because he got caught speeding is laughable.

You're either talking garbage or your brother isn't as innocent as he says he is.
Whichever one it is, nobody cares so stop cluttering up this thread with your nonsense.

[sexyxe]

Originally Posted by XR6Naranja
We'll start with this...

This has NOTHING to do with looking at the speedo, most know when they are doing over 150...

But they were told to pull out after it hit 120km/h...

For all those who keep protecting the cop, since forever, two wrongs don't make a right, and in this case it made 3 wrongs..

We should invest in helicopters, helicopters don't follow these laws and cars/theives DO not get away, besides this it's generally hard to tell if a chopper is a police chopper and with heat vision they don't need to use the light to give it away.
In reality, they should have slowed down...

And it's Melbourne, is there not a whole bunch of undercover cops that could have quietly pursuited?The cops and the criminal in the wrong, a life could have been saved if rules were followed..

You simply can't say that if the cops follow their own rules the criminals think they can get away.

That's like me saying if I don't steal food I won't be able to live, so it's okay for me to do it. NO, it's not, just like it wasn't okay for these guys not to pull away then exceed their own speeding limit.

Cops have a job to do, they do it properly they can happily say "F U" to anyone that blames them for the criminal getting away, the abided the rules, now they are the blame for both problems.

That is hugely pricey. That is also quite time restricted. You can't have birds in the sky all the time. Even if they were on a very short notice to move, you still require someone to follow the vehicle whilst the bird gets airborne and to the scene.


A quite pursuit? Why not just pull him over? Why, if he was such a 'good bloke who never does any wrong' *like all crims apparently are* didn't he stop in the first place? If a non marked car is following this ******, who is breaking the speed limit, there are now 2 'cars' speeding. Civillians wont know that one of them is a police car. At the least with a marked vehicle lights and sirens give the oncoming and forward traffic a chance to move and prepare.

How are police to do their job if the law that they are meant to be upholding is so damn binding they can't do anything? Example - People don't like pistols. Lets take the policemans pistols and give them tazers. Some one dies from a tazering. Lets take their tazers and give them tear gas/capsicum spray instead. Oh wait, someone gets blinded. Lets give them a freaking whistle so incase something happens they can draw everyones attention to it instead (like the Poms do). So, now all I (as a member of the public) need is a pistol, and I can easily shoot/kill/maime dozens of people, all because we took away the Policemans ability to do his job.

When ever some poor bastard dies as a result of police action, he is always remembered as a bloody legend/top bloke. Never hurt a fly/break the law. Always willing to help out. IF THEY WERE SUCH GOOD PEOPLE, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE LAW. THEY WOULDN'T RUN FROM THE POLICE AS THEY HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. How does that not get through to the general population!!

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by chrisfpv

If you take a step back and read some of the other posts in this thread, have a read of one by Dave3911. His posts indicate he is either a current or past sworn or un-sworn member of Victoria Police

I'm sorry if I gave that impression, but I'm neither. I do, however, work for a seperate government authority that supplies calltaking and dispatch services to Victoria Police.

[svo supporter]

It's probably been mentioned before, but I can't find it.

Coppers can't be everywhere. Helicopters can't just take off with 5 seconds notice. They can't find a crim without help. ie they need a copper to help direct them to an area for them to help with the tracking. So this means, the ground crew need to have some sort of speed to get an idea where the lowlies actually are.

Coppers try and catch crooks, yet when they try and catch them with pursuits, they're either brilliant for getting someones pride and joy back (and not all are insured) in one piece or damaged, or they're mongrels for engaging in a pursuit trying to keep an owner happy.

So in a nutshell, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. No wonder they're leaving the force in droves.

Oh and one last thing. Not all accidents happens, as a direct result of the pursuit. There has been cases, where coppers have backed out of a pursuit and 1/2 hour later, the crims have smacked into some poor innocient bystander.

So what do we do? Let them try and do their job catching crims, or do we let crims run amok and stuff the poor owner?

[TMC]

I feel sorry for the cops actually. Those who are good cops. Not the ones who frame others and have others killed but eventually get blown up by the bikies like Don Hancock.

On the one hand, they have to deal with the dirt of society. They get the bad guys. Put up with the abuse from them. Send them to court, and the defense lawyers and do gooders find out that they weren't tucked into bed at night when they were kids and let them go!!!!!!! Then the same people re-offend and go through the whole process over and over again.

I used to work with an ex prison warden. He worked in maximum security prisons for a while. He'd often tell me that if he had to go to prison it wouldn't bother him. (Being a prison warden you think it would) If you don't cause problems you are basically left alone. Act like a jerk and you'll get passed around like a you know what. Solitary confinement is not some black hole in a concrete wall where you end up on the edge of insanity. No. It's a room of your own, with your own shower and bed and a place to read a book, escape from the hard realities of prison. I wouldn't mind a place like that myself. Prison is a place to refine your criminal skills, catch up with old mates, and talk about what schemes and mayhem you'll create when you get out. Rehabilitation!!!! If you believe in leprechauns. True there are those who do stupid things and really regret what they did. Those people are rehabilitatable. But the vast majority are not. They often become institutionalised. The whole idea of getting released freaks them out. So they'll go and re-offend, hit a cop on the head with a brick, or something stupid to get back in, where they feel safe again. Then they'll meet up with their mates again inside and compare notes over a latte.

These are the sort the cops have to deal with, and I don't envy them one bit.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by chrisfpv

Whichever one it is, nobody cares so stop cluttering up this thread with your nonsense.

Thank God, he's moved on, must out in the shed grinding his axe.