Workplace Laws and Rights

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

And this is a question for all participants. What is a better outcome: (note that scenario [a] represents an 8% increase from scenario [b])

Assume, for the sake of the excercise, that the employer's budget needs wages to come in at a max $400/hr.

a) 18.5 FTE on $21.60
b) 20 FTE on $20.00

Both have an (almost) identical cost to the employer. Personally I beleive that scenario (b) is "better" and is an outcome that is more likely to be devliered under workchoices than it would be under a collective system.

Cheers lads.

Scenario B) has significant benefits in terms of business growth and sustainability, it offers more people employment on one hand, and allows the business access to an extra 1.5 people to increase output, or work on "growth" projects, i guess it also assumes that the other 18.5 people are at their limit in terms of productivity and there's meaningful work for the extra 1.5 people.
I personally like the concept of profit share and annual CPI wage rises to be honest, CPI allows the employee to maintain their ecconomic position if they haven't been rewarded with a job promotion, and profit share (if the business is profitable) gives them a reward for hard work. What it doesnt do is artificially ratchet up their wages above CPI should the following year be less profitable or there be a down turn in the market place, which is good for both parties in the long run..


Here's an interesting scenario i hope people think about carefully before answering (or flaming!), by the way im not making a judgement for or against, its just an interesting concept if you think it through:


I wonder how many people would be unemployed if they removed unemployment benefits and removed the minimum wage? I wonder what effect this would have on our economy and global competitveness?

[Work Horse]

There is an underlining assumption with the claim we need the new IR laws. This idea that wages will increase uncontrollably, causing inflation, without them. How can this be so? If we look at the health of the economy over resent history, without the new IR law, where is the inflation and unsustainable wage growth? There is no evedience, just dogma.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

It will be stripped away after the next election, if, god forbid little Johny gets back in. How do I know, I cant tell you. Is it on the drawing board, yes it is. But since Johny is your idol, you will just go along with it and sing it's praises. I seem to remember you posted a picture of yourself in another thread. You dont look very old, but you seem to think that you have all the cards when it comes to human nature and the real world. I would guess that you haven't done you mandatory course in the school of hard knocks and reality. But you will learn.

Geez and here i am making an effort to maintain a non offending relationship with you OBJ

Well im certainly familiar with not divulging priveledged information and respect your decsion to keep hush on what you know. Of course, it raises an interesting point... you're basing a point on information that you're not willing to divulge.

You cant actually expect me to believe your claims in the lack of any evidence you are willing to produce? Particularly when one considers that i have my hand deep in the superannuation framework's pie. If you have information that a key regulator in superannuation does not, then you must be congratulated on your detective skills.

For the record, i dont think many people would idolise politicians. I know i dont (i have the joy of parts of my work requiring their approval under certain delegations). What i do share is a philosophy. And sharing the PM's views is not something which is unique. Lol, regurgitate all the sour grapes you want about how he got in - the fact of the matter is that he was elected. His party represents the beliefs and values of A LOT of Australians. Yes - the idea must make you sick, that there are millions of people out there who share my beliefs.

I often find it amusing the way you lot make me out to be the most despicable person in the voting public. Yep - im pure evil... and there's plenty more conservatives where i came from. Be careful tho, you cant always pick us on the street.

So we're all wrong arent we? Because you know sooo much better than everyone! Perhaps after the revolution you'll appoint yourself as our great leader. You seem to think that we need saving from our own stupidity.

Ah yes, i was waiting for the 'age card' to be played. I'm 25. Make of that what you will. I'll tell you what tho - fairly broad comment to make, seeing as you know nothing of the history of me and my family, you dont know what we've been through and you dont know me.

Im not purporting to have the answers. I elect people to do that. What i do know:

- the country is in good shape
- previous IR reform has been beneficial to the economy and the people who live within it
- the government has a sound economic track record, that's seen them re elected time and time again
- more people work than ever have before
- people are earning "more" on average now than they ever have before
- a HUGE majority of the population is employed by small business who have been operating in an IR system tailored to large organisations and their employee bodies.

So, without prattling on - i'll summarise by saying that (i believe) i have some reasonably sound observations to base my opinions on. Now, im not looking for debate on the above topics, im merely explaining my rationale (seeing as you believe that 25 years of age is insufficient to know anything).

This is what i am confronted by in these threads:

- speculation
- doom and gloom stories
- personal attacks (great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people)
- predictions that are based on.... nothing... still waiting on Mo's explanation of how the killer recession is going to come about... interesting comments to make seeing as he's opposing a system that reduces inflationary pressure.
- and now, im being told that the superannuation gurantee is on the chopping block, although im being told that im not allowed to see/hear the evidence to support this claim

Perhaps i should highlight what i am not seeing:

- facts
- truth
- evidence

And then... after all this speculative rubbish....

Someone is now telling me that my opinions are not worth jack, because of the year in which i was born!

So at what age would it please you to the point where my opnions can be accepted as valid?

Are these the teachings of the school of hard knocks? To bullsh*t your way through a discussion, then, when all else fails - tell someone their opinions are invalid because of their age?

I think i'll maintain my enrolment in the school of "getting on with your life".

[Sourbastard]

This thread, and all the ones that came before it, are done to death. Its the same people, arguing the same thing, over and over and over. It gets nowhere. Every time.

For those on the Left.
I've never held a position of management, and have worked as a contractor for 10 years in the IT field. Dont whinge to me about your loss of rights, your loss of annual leave loading and all the other crap I survived without for years. Paid days off? Gimme a break.

For those on the Right.
While the above is said, John Howard is a sawn off little political sociopath with absolutely no original ideas in his cavernous melon and wouldnt know a moral action if it slipped out of the toilet and bit him on the carbunkle.

There is no middle ground here. So everyone retire to your corners, and prepare your closing arguments for god forbid, the next election.