Why does the Falcon struggle to sell?

[Hally]

I have read this thread with interest and there are a number of valid points made. Here are some of the reasons why I think the Falcon (and other large Australian made cars are not selling in the numbers they used to).

- Women. Not being sexist here, but in my experience with gf's, wife, female friends etc, they are just not into large cars that have what they perceive as poor visibility of the 'extremities' of the car. Put then in a high riding SUV that they can see the corners to and they feel a lot more comfortable with and they are happy. Lets be honest fellas, when purchasing a car with the significant other in our life, she generally has a say in what you buy, especially more when kids are involved.
- Rear wheel drive is not relevant anymore. I am 40, and grew up with small cars that had rear wheel drive (Datto's, Gemini's, Escorts, Toyota's etc) but smaller FWD cars where starting to make inroads (Laser, 323, Corolla) so guys a few years younger than me were buying these second hand when getting there licence. The result? No hang-ups in driving FWD cars and no perceived downside.
- The TAXI syndrome. I work in a corporate environment where a high proportion of people drive to work and salary sacrifice a car (instead of the old days of being given a company car) and they simply will not purchase a Falcon due to it being perceived as a car that is first choice for taxi operators. Whilst they concede that the virtues the Falcon has to make it that first choice, they see the car they buy as a status/fashion tool and they will turn it over in three years anyway so they don't need a car that will last for hundreds of thousand km's etc.
- User choose system. What I mean is that people these days get a car allowance instead of a company car and get to chose their own car. I really wish that figures where available to see how many cars, say over $35,000 (and not commercial type vehicles) are purchased using some sort of novated leasing. In 2011 we have a much broader range of cars to chose from than we did on 2000.

Just a couple of my thoughts on the subject.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by flappist

They only canned the models that were not selling.

If they were not selling when they were available how can making them not available reduce sales........

Wagon was still selling a few hundred a month even with an interior dating back to 2002, metalwork dating to 1998 and 2002 and a lack of premium options to make it attractive to private buyers.

Update the metal work to FG/FH and make it available with G6 & G6E level interiors and it would probably sell, maybe not in the numbers of the Commodore Sportswagon, but it would sell.

[DaveTE]

They have to market to the non Ford fans as stated in here earlier to increase sales.
Customer service is always an issue and inflated prices of parts and service drive people away as well. This is where your loyalty to a brand can be made or broken.
Marketing has been an issue for years. Look at the T-Series hardly spoken about back then by Ford but the car gets good reviews still today.
V8 supercars and the lack of competive Fords in the racing line up ATM doesn't help. People may disagree but success of Ford on the weekend is still a marketing tool that people react to. V8 supercars moving further and further away from the actual street cars is also distancing racing from the sales arena.
But to answer your direct question: Why does the Falcon struggle to sell?......Because it's engines are big fuel guzzlers compared to four cylinder vehicles out there. I have two V8s that I don't drive much and a Mazda 323 SP20 that gets driven everywhere due to cost of running. It will be the car I replace regularly with another four.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Change of Perception starts with new product:

new products will help, but the biggest change to perception starts from the people. this is arguably the biggest ford fan base in australia and yet anyone who comes across the site would be instantly turned off ford the way some of the children carry on.

some of the most vocal aren't even driving around in the latest products yet still feel they can rubbish them at every opportunity because they had a bad experience back in 1972.

every manufacturer the world over has issues. its a fact of life. for many, ford deliver great products that they are very happy with. just because you don't read about it on AFF doesn't mean it didn't happen. i think the forum is a rather small cross section of the actual ford customers.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Wagon was still selling a few hundred a month even with an interior dating back to 2002, metalwork dating to 1998 and 2002 and a lack of premium options to make it attractive to private buyers.

Update the metal work to FG/FH and make it available with G6 & G6E level interiors and it would probably sell, maybe not in the numbers of the Commodore Sportswagon, but it would sell.

are you aware falcon wagon was once offered in nearly all variants. gli, futura, xr6, fairmont, ghia.

people always make these sort of comments and yet when they were offered, no one bought them. xr6 wagon sales in ef were less than 500 (476) over more than a 12mnth period!! ed xr6 wagon was even less.

ghia was available up until AU with fairmont conitinuing through till au3.

the demand for high spec wagons just isn't there. apart from telstra etc, the people who wanted a wagon were families, and ford decided there was already 2 other options in their stable to cater for those people (mondeo and territory).

why does the falcon have to do everything when other products are already there?

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by prydey

are you aware falcon wagon was once offered in nearly all variants. gli, futura, xr6, fairmont, ghia.


why does the falcon have to do everything when other products are already there?

You mean its the other way around.... the Falcon wagon has been there since the Falcon range started in the 1960s.... Territory and Mondeo were not "already" there. They are "new" products.

The "SUV" (god how i loath that term) took over as the vehicle for all those soccer moms because they simply believe a large 4WD based vehicle is "safer". Plus it makes them less "insecure" when driving.. blah blah blah

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DaveTE

But to answer your direct question: Why does the Falcon struggle to sell?......Because it's engines are big fuel guzzlers compared to four cylinder vehicles out there.

and?

if you can make do with a smaller car then you didn't need a large car in the first place. that is one of the biggest factors, or THE biggest factor in the shrinking large car segment. large cars are now largely only being bought by those who actually NEED a large car, and a handful that want one.

for large cars, i find them terrific on fuel. my fg gets 10 round town and under 8 on the highway. with 4 people and luggage thats pretty impressive i think.

if fuel was such an issue, why do suv's and 4wd/4x4's sell so well? sure there's the diesel thing but many of them are still petrol sales.

admittedly, the gas guzzler tag is something they still need to shrug off, because personally, i don't think it fits anymore.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

You mean its the other way around.... the Falcon wagon has been there since the Falcon range started in the 1960s.... Territory and Mondeo were not "already" there. They are "new" products.

The "SUV" (god how i loath that term) took over as the vehicle for all those soccer moms because they simply believe a large 4WD based vehicle is "safer". Plus it makes them less "insecure" when driving.. blah blah blah

either way, ford don't have to make the falcon suit every market.

[ray38l]

The large car segment needs a big shake up. Falcon design just hasn't changed enough. They need to release a model that is unlike anything seen in large cars before(but not as out there as au). The problem is you can trace the look of the fg back to far.
I worry that ecoboost will be overlooked if the fg2 is just a small update. if the car doesn't look much different then they will struggle to get peoples interest to even test drive it. Commodore has the same problem as it has updated on the go instead of making fuel economy improvements with a new model. People just don't notice what had been done to make it better.
Its a slowly dying segment but it doesn't have to be if they stopped doing what they have always done.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

You mean its the other way around.... the Falcon wagon has been there since the Falcon range started in the 1960s.... Territory and Mondeo were not "already" there. They are "new" products.

whether they are new to the brand or not, there are other options in the ford stable to cover a vehicle that needs space in the back

if people actually bought the wagon in decent numbers, then surely ford would still make it. the range is decided on brand new sales - not second hand sales

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

whether they are new to the brand or not, there are other options in the ford stable to cover a vehicle that needs space in the back

if people actually bought the wagon in decent numbers, then surely ford would still make it. the range is decided on brand new sales - not second hand sales

Yes but the rest my post was the point I was trying to make... wagon sales lost out to SUVs, simply due to marketing and the perception they were safer because they are bigger and to look "cooler" or because they feel insecure in a normal car.
A station wagon hasnt got "the look", it means your old, bland, dull, not hip with it... everyone else has a SUV, follow the trend.

A lot of them are simply driven in town and never off road. Look at how many of them are driven by females. Watch them try to park one in a shopping center carpark!

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Yes but the rest my post was the point I was trying to make... wagon sales lost out to SUVs, simply due to marketing and the perception they were safer because they are bigger and to look "cooler" or because they feel insecure in a normal car.
A station wagon hasnt got "the look", it means your old, bland, dull, not hip with it... everyone else has a SUV, follow the trend.

A lot of them are simply driven in town and never off road. Look at how many of them are driven by females. Watch them try to park one in a shopping center carpark!

true - we have a rav4, for pretty much the reasons you suggested. i personally have never liked wagons, so an suv is a better option to me

[Jim Goose]

Holden probably got it right in making the wagon smaller and less of a large barge. Personally I still love my wagon, but it ultimately became a very limited market. If Ford had of redesigned it in the same way as Holden and made it smaller they wouldve simply been accused of "copying" Holden and it may of affected sales. Simpler to drop it from the line I guess.

The same could be said of the sedan, its become a limited market now as most people are just buying smaller cars or alternatively 4WDs. Or both.
Look in most driveways and youll see a small car parked next to a 4WD.

Ford will have to bite the bullet and go smaller with Falcon (look at how small the orginal XM was).

[2011G6E]

I think we're going through a "belated SUV craze", like that which struck America in the 1990's. The factories there went away from normal cars, tooled up (at massive expense) to make more huge gas-guzzling SUV's, and then when the craze crashed with higher fuel prices, they were left with simply vast numbers of these unsaleable vehicles. I'm sure some people must remember the aerial views on news programs of factory storage lots in the USA with tens of thousands of unsold SUV's, and how the big makers got into financial trouble trying to hastily retool.

Here in Oz we seem to be going through that craze now. Of course things like the Ford Territory are just about as fuel efficient as a normal Falcon, but more and more people seem to be buying the hype that a big four wheel drive is "safer" than a car, and that it's the "only choice" for seeing over the traffic, bullying your way through in a superior manner, and being king of the road.
They also seem to think that there is a difference between five seats in a Landcruiser or Patrol and five seats in a Falcon, and that somehow the huge fourbie is a "better choice" as a family car.

The bubble will burst here as it did in the US, but at least here Ford and Holden haven't stopped making cars and gone to SUV's in a big way, so it won't be as bad.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Wagon was still selling a few hundred a month even with an interior dating back to 2002, metalwork dating to 1998 and 2002 and a lack of premium options to make it attractive to private buyers.

Update the metal work to FG/FH and make it available with G6 & G6E level interiors and it would probably sell, maybe not in the numbers of the Commodore Sportswagon, but it would sell.

There were 3 types of Falcon:

Sedan, ute and wagon.

Sedan was the basis of everything from XT through to Force 8
Ute was the basis of everything from XL through to Super Pursuit.
Wagon was the basis of XT wagon & Futura wagon.

Two of those sold thousands a month the other sold a couple of hundred.

Each variant required a lot of very expensive engineering.

There is always the argument that if there were XR wagons or Fairmont wagons or V8 wagons they would increase numbers.

Well there used to be up to the AU and guess what, they sold BUGGER ALL of them. Which is why they were dropped.

Same reason the panel van, a huge seller in the late 70s is now history.

A couple of years ago a custom "F6" wagon was built in Melbourne. It sat round for ages as although there were lots of oohs and aahs the noise was not coming from people who buy NEW cars.

Here on AFF there is not a lot of custom BA/BF wagons being built with different body kits/interiors or transmission/engine substitution even though there is in the sedan and ute arena.

So really all I can see is that some people want Ford to have a wagon because Holden have a wagon. They don't actually want to buy a NEW one, they just want others to so there will be some cheap second hand ones in a few years.

[Dr Jekkyl]

Many interesting perspectives raised in this thread.

I think it is multifactorial.

1) Marketing. Aussie cars have not changed a great deal BUT Holden market themselves as though they have. SIDI eh, what is that again, and does it actually make a difference? I note the badge is often green. The FG falcon is the best car to be made in this country to date, yet it gets practically no spruiking.

2) The market. People now look for vehicles that are economical and/or safe. Traditional large car buyers are moving away from sedans/wagons to Suburban Assault Vehicles. Commuters are probably more interested in small cars for reasons relating to economy.......and more and more of us are becoming commuters. IF Ford play it right they could probably sell a lot of the new liquid-injection gas models BUT they will have to overcome the prevalent, and seemingly convincing, misconceptions about LPG.

3) Vanity. People are increasingly looking to differentiate themselves in contemporary times. Money is cheaper than every before so people are willing to extend themselves further. European makers have caught on to this too, especially BMW with their 1 series and X3 for example.

Finally, in relation to the article mentioned by the OP.........this is just one in a long series of satirical blogs that are seriously funny. Don't take it to heart, the only reason is that Ford is the focus is because Ford is more overrepresented in the pessimistic mainstream media. We all know that the commodore is the quintessential bogan vehicle......SIDI included.

[Franco Cozzo]

I can see why the Falcon Wagon died, honestly, how many "families" do you see getting around in Wagons these days? SUVs are the big new rage in family cars and I reckon they should focus 90% of their efforts into the Territory rather than the Falcon.

[James_bf]

Called another dealer to try and "see" a G6.
No, they don't have one on display that I can look at.
I asked how they hoped to sell any if they couldn't show me one. The sales guy replaied they don't have any as Ford haven't built any!

Is this true?
Are all the stock in their holding yards XR6s ONLY?

If they cannot sell a G6 to a Falcon ONLY buyer with a wife pushing to get a new car for me, how can they sell anything?

Maybe this does come down to the fact that it isn't about price

All I want is either an XR6 or a G6 with curtain airbags, a real spare tyre and reverse sensors. I want to compare the look of the cars (the wife thinks the XR6 is a bit 'sparse'). Is that too hard?

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I can see why the Falcon Wagon died, honestly, how many "families" do you see getting around in Wagons these days? SUVs are the big new rage in family cars and I reckon they should focus 90% of their efforts into the Territory rather than the Falcon.

Umm, how many VE Sportswagons do you see around these days. Heaps. Probably just as many if not more than VE sedans.

The reason why is because it came only as a standard XT configuration in limited colours, which the average private buyer did not want. If Ford had made the wagons in XR, Fairmont Ghia or G6E configurations, with choice of I6, I6T and V8 engines, as well as FPV having their versions, just like Holden has done with their Sportswagon, I'm sure the story would have been a lot different. Besides, how old was the Falcon wagon basic design?

Edit: Woops sorry, just read the posts above, but my thoughts are the Falcon wagon really needed a good freshening up with a new design.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by James_bf

Called another dealer to try and "see" a G6.
All I want is either an XR6 or a G6 with curtain airbags, a real spare tyre and reverse sensors. I want to compare the look of the cars (the wife thinks the XR6 is a bit 'sparse'). Is that too hard?

Then have a look at one of these:



Just ignore the badge, might be able to fit a Ford one in that gap if you so wish.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/100315/kia-optima-review/

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Besides, how old was the Falcon wagon basic design?

I suspect thats got as lot to do with it. The wagon still had a lot of styling queues going back to EA.

VE sportswagon was clearly all new, and actually looks pretty cool for a wagon. Ford seem to be a dim when it comes to the importance of styling ... but then, they did give us the AU.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Umm, how many VE Sportswagons do you see around these days. Heaps. Probably just as many if not more than VE sedans.

The reason why is because it came only as a standard XT configuration in limited colours, which the average private buyer did not want. If Ford had made the wagons in XR, Fairmont Ghia or G6E configurations, with choice of I6, I6T and V8 engines, as well as FPV having their versions, just like Holden has done with their Sportswagon, I'm sure the story would have been a lot different. Besides, how old was the Falcon wagon basic design?

Edit: Woops sorry, just read the posts above, but my thoughts are the Falcon wagon really needed a good freshening up with a new design.

Interesting.

I see bugger all VE sportswagons up here and as far as the local Holder dealer is concerned they are a very low volume seller.

As for the G6/XR6 debate, the XR6s outsell the G6s by a long shot.

If you want to see what are the big movers look at dealer floor stock. They do not care what they sell as long as it sells QUICKLY and does not chew up interest.

It is also the reason why the majority of FPV floor stock is GS and GT with stripes both with no other options.
I have still never seen a F6-E or GT-E (335) anywhere and the only GT-P was at Pacific in sunny coast and I tend to get about a bit.

The vast majority of G6x I have seen on floor stock are G6ETs as they seem to be the big seller.

[whynot]

I am not sure if the lack of a wagon variant is the answer. Mazda, BMW, and Mercedes have estates as variants and one does not see a lot of them on the road.

I think it is a case of death by a thousand cuts (most of which has been covered above); no wagon, no LPG, no base V8, no long wheelbase variant, government imposed fuel ratings for their fleets, the rise of the SUV, vehicle packaging verses FWD layouts, user-chooses novated leasing, lack of snob value, etc. Add to this; the appreciating Australia dollar, removal of protectionist taxes, generally crappy advertising, hostile media, and that is even before we get to the salesperson’s behaviour and the experiences of dealing with the workshop.

It is very telling of the dysfunction that exists within Ford Oz that world class vehicles like the Focus and Mondeo are struggling against the Corolla and the Camry.

[flappist]

It must be hard to be a design engineer at Ford.

Just to take the V8 argument over the last decade or so (BA-FG)

BA has THREE different permutations.

Base entry level 220kw Barra, XR8 260kw BOSS & 290Kw BOSS.

Barra hardly sells, is update to 230kw and does no better
XR8 does ok but is outsold by the cheaper and quicker XR6T even after it is updated to 290kw.
290Kw sells ok, is updated to 302kw and then 315kw but is not a HUGE seller.

So BOSS no longer complies and the new 5L supercharged V8 is deployed.

What to do:

In the last 10 odd years entry level V8s have failed to sell, cheap V8s have failed to sell, the only successful Ford V8 has been the high end in a "sporty" config.

So they release an entry level GS and the GTx range.
THE FASTEST AND MOST POWERFUL STANDARD MODEL VEHICLES EVER BUILT IN AUSTRALIA.

And what do they read on the "enthusiasts" forum?

It is all too wrong, too dear, wrong badge....whinge, whinge, whinge.

If you want a top of the range V8 falcon go and buy one because if they don't sell all that will happen is that Ford will drop the V8 and the reply to all the screaming complaints will be:

When we made them you did not buy them so now you can not buy something else instead........

P.S. If you can't afford a new Ford V8 then TOUGH, life wasn't meant to be easy, is rarely fair and if you REALLY want one you will find the money.

Get a second job, give up drinking, smoking, your smart phone, partying every weekend, your playstation and collection of games and Blurays, get a third job just don't expect everyone else to bend over backwards just to help you if you are not prepared to do the same.....

[prydey]

just to add to flappists list, what other car manufacturer (other than holden) offers a range of engines in one model? you can't walk into a merc/bmw/audi etc etc and say 'i want the base model, but i want a v8 in it'!! if you want a v8 merc, you have to buy the one they offer with a v8. same goes for every other car manufacturer. why should ford be any different?

if you don't like the product, buy something else. don't whinge just because they don't make it to your liking.

also, its long been established that those that whinge the most aren't new car buyers. more than likely they are just worried about losing the arguments in the playground.

[jpd80]

I don't get the "5.4 V8 can't be made comply to Euro 4" argument because
most of the emission controls today centre around exhaust after treatment
and the only real adjustment needed was different cats and engine recalibration
just like the I-6 but guess what, Ford couldn't be bothered, not with the 5.0 sitting there
super efficient and begging for a blower.......

[b0son]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is all too wrong, too dear, wrong badge....whinge, whinge, whinge.

Like it or not, the GS is TOO PRICEY. Accept it, move on.

When you're forced to spend $60k, you have every right to be picky, and there's no shortage of cars from other manufacturers (not just Holden) that deliver a better overall package for the same coin.

P.S. If you can't afford a new Ford V8 then TOUGH

TOUGH for Ford - because there's no shortage of Holden V8 buyers.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by b0son

Like it or not, the GS is TOO PRICEY. Accept it, move on.

When you're forced to spend $60k, you have every right to be picky, and there's no shortage of cars from other manufacturers (not just Holden) that deliver a better overall package for the same coin.



TOUGH for Ford - because there's no shortage of Holden V8 buyers.

And what do you drive?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by b0son

When you're forced to spend $60k, you have every right to be picky, and there's no shortage of cars from other manufacturers (not just Holden) that deliver a better overall package for the same coin.

so go and buy the 'other' option then.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by b0son

Like it or not, the GS is TOO PRICEY. Accept it, move on.

When you're forced to spend $60k, you have every right to be picky, and there's no shortage of cars from other manufacturers (not just Holden) that deliver a better overall package for the same coin.



TOUGH for Ford - because there's no shortage of Holden V8 buyers.

Well, let them buy one...

Two things -

One - you are not FORCED to spend $60K - if you can't afford it, don't buy one. Maybe you should accept that and move on?

Two - the affordability of a GS is on a case by case basis. You see it as being too expensive, so do some others - but clearly not everyone.

If you understand marketing - if you want a GS...Ford have done their job...if you can't afford it - that's not their problem. The whole purpose of marketing is to create wants, why do you think so many people are up to their eyeballs in debt...they simply want what they can't afford.