60 minutes tonight on young drivers.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Zamtro

if the road train is only doing 105 in a 110 then just settle down behind them... even over several hundred k's that 5kmph will make the smallest difference in time...

and for NT, i wasn't aware of there speed limits, never been there before. even limiting to 130 would help i believe. i know a few people to have died in crashes related to speeds above that.

So what you are saying is you know nothing and have been nowhere but still sprout the partly line of "speed kills"......

Get out and experience following a road train for a while you might change your mind.

But then again, you live is a city so YOUR car could be limited to 50km/h after all it is never far to anywhere is it?

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by Zamtro

if the road train is only doing 105 in a 110 then just settle down behind them... even over several hundred k's that 5kmph will make the smallest difference in time...

and for NT, i wasn't aware of there speed limits, never been there before. even limiting to 130 would help i believe. i know a few people to have died in crashes related to speeds above that.

Crossing the Nullabour would make a bit of difference don't you think? Last time I settled down behind a semi, I lost a headlight. besides the good economy, being behind a large truck is one of the least desirable places on the road to be.


Also, I've known of people that have died doing 40kph...
The gps system that limits speed is a good idea, as long as it's utilised sparingly and properly, like only in school zones.

[TOM-CAT]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what you are saying is you know nothing and have been nowhere but still sprout the partly line of "speed kills"......

Get out and experience following a road train for a while you might change your mind.

But then again, you live is a city so YOUR car could be limited to 50km/h after all it is never far to anywhere is it?

Just because i haven't been to NT don't assume to know where i have been or what i have done... And don't assume i live in the city either. I don't.

And if you think speed has nothing to do with any deaths (speeds of over say... 130) then you must be blind. Stopping some deaths is better than stopping none, and if you don't agree with that then i disagree with your morals.

Obviously this conversation has been brought up before. but don't assume i know nothing as you know nothing about me. As i said, just my 2c.

[TURBOTAXI]

Originally Posted by Zamtro

if the road train is only doing 105 in a 110 then just settle down behind them... even over several hundred k's that 5kmph will make the smallest difference in time...

and for NT, i wasn't aware of there speed limits, never been there before. even limiting to 130 would help i believe. i know a few people to have died in crashes related to speeds above that.

Hi Mate,

Sitting behind a road train is risky in itself because you cannot see that far ahead, and they tend to pick stuff up off the road and it can hit your car. I would rather be in from to have the visibility and to avoid stuff being thrown at my car.

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by joolz

They will never speed limit cars as we all know that the Governments are too much in love with the revenue raised by speeding drivers. Trucks have had the speed limiting technology for years now but not with different speed zones tracked by GPS. So if they were serious about the road toll it would have been implemented already

Umm most cars that roll off the production line today ARE speed limited.

[XR Martin]

They'd be so many problems with Flappist's rule is just would be unworkable. How would it work with an 18yo apprentice mechanic? He cant drive the work ute to get parts? Or cant drive customer cars until he's a 4th year?
What about recruits in the ADF? Our military has to drive around in his silly car until they get a full licence?
And what about our race car drivers? They cant drive a V8 Supercar until they are 21? Alot of them are starting well earlier than that.

Thats just a few off the top of my head.

Not all P-Platers are young also. So if they are 25 with 3 or 4 kids, they still have to drive flappist's car? Where are they going to put the kids? The stroller, pram etc?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Zamtro

Just because i haven't been to NT don't assume to know where i have been or what i have done... And don't assume i live in the city either. I don't.

And if you think speed has nothing to do with any deaths (speeds of over say... 130) then you must be blind. Stopping some deaths is better than stopping none, and if you don't agree with that then i disagree with your morals.

Obviously this conversation has been brought up before. but don't assume i know nothing as you know nothing about me. As i said, just my 2c.

I know that you have not been to all parts of Australia
I know you live in the Perth area and drive a 98 EL
I know you used to have a LPG EF which you crashed.
I know that you exhibit most of the characteristics of an e-mutant (EL with EF engine and EA head)
I know that you have pushed the "speed is dangerous" line before.

And in that you are such a clever little westralian what is the reason why when the NT reduced their speed limit on the open roads the road deaths increased significantly?

[BENT_8]

LOL..building a 'p' plater car...what a joke!

So the idea is to produce a vehicle safe enough so that 'p' platers cant get into trouble....hello, do you think the same tools who kill themselves or mates in sudden 140k+ stops are gonna line up to buy one, no way, they'll just drive whatever and if the law stops them before a solid object they'll just drive whatever without a licence.
Chances are if you'll drive without said licence your just as likely to drive unregistered which means no CTP.
Thats all we need, a few thousand out of control teenagers with no insurance to cover the poor bugger they hit.

I dont get it were trying to make tougher laws for people who regularly break\disregard them...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

They'd be so many problems with Flappist's rule is just would be unworkable. How would it work with an 18yo apprentice mechanic? He cant drive the work ute to get parts? Or cant drive customer cars until he's a 4th year?
What about recruits in the ADF? Our military has to drive around in his silly car until they get a full licence?
And what about our race car drivers? They cant drive a V8 Supercar until they are 21? Alot of them are starting well earlier than that.

Thats just a few off the top of my head.

Not all P-Platers are young also. So if they are 25 with 3 or 4 kids, they still have to drive flappist's car? Where are they going to put the kids? The stroller, pram etc?

The apprentice can drive the work ute for work, just not after hours.
All ADF members must have an ADF license to drive ADF equipment so that is irrelevent and again they don't get to take the leopard tanks home for the weekend.
You do not need a drivers licence to hols a CAMS license.

Any more?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by flappist

The apprentice can drive the work ute for work, just not after hours.
All ADF members must have an ADF license to drive ADF equipment so that is irrelevent and again they don't get to take the leopard tanks home for the weekend.
You do not need a drivers licence to hols a CAMS license.

Any more?

Im not talking Leopard Tanks, im talking general driving duties, maneuvers, excercises etc? And you didnt answer the young family with a few kids.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

LOL..building a 'p' plater car...what a joke!

So the idea is to produce a vehicle safe enough so that 'p' platers cant get into trouble....hello, do you think the same tools who kill themselves or mates in sudden 140k+ stops are gonna line up to buy one, no way, they'll just drive whatever and if the law stops them before a solid object they'll just drive whatever without a licence.
Chances are if you'll drive without said licence your just as likely to drive unregistered which means no CTP.
Thats all we need, a few thousand out of control teenagers with no insurance to cover the poor bugger they hit.

I dont get it were trying to make tougher laws for people who regularly break\disregard them...

They probably won't drive unlicensed after their first trip to jail.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Im not talking Leopard Tanks, im talking general driving duties, maneuvers, excercises etc? And you didnt answer the young family with a few kids.

The ADF cars are work cars, and the ADF is exempt from other laws, I used to drink legally in the ORs mess when I was 17.

Young family will have baby seats in the back like all other cars, if they have more than 3 kids before they are 22 then they are probably too stupid to drive anyway.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

They probably won't drive unlicensed after their first trip to jail.....

BS, they'll just come out with more bad habits and a stuff you outlook on society...

That is unless you have a great plan for prisoner reform too...if you do, it might pay you to get onto your local warden and enlighten him as to how to rectify the long list of repeat offenders that go through the court system everyday. :

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

BS, they'll just come out with more bad habits and a stuff you outlook on society...

That is unless you have a great plan for prisoner reform too...if you do, it might pay you to get onto your local warden and enlighten him as to how to rectify the long list of repeat offenders that go through the court system everyday. :

FFS there will always be criminals. The idea is to give the average young driver an affordable option for a new safe car. doof doofs will always complain.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

FFS there will always be criminals. The idea is to give the average young driver an affordable option for a new safe car. doof doofs will always complain.

No..you reckon these 'p' plater cars are gonna lower the road toll, it isn't the average corolla buyer/driving 'p' plater that contribute to the toll.
The question is, how do you stop the out of control youth before they're out of control..you know.. the horse and the gate yeah.

[TOM-CAT]

Originally Posted by flappist

I know that you have not been to all parts of Australia
I know you live in the Perth area and drive a 98 EL
I know you used to have a LPG EF which you crashed.
I know that you exhibit most of the characteristics of an e-mutant (EL with EF engine and EA head)
I know that you have pushed the "speed is dangerous" line before.

And in that you are such a clever little westralian what is the reason why when the NT reduced their speed limit on the open roads the road deaths increased significantly?

you think speed contributes NOTHING to ANY deaths hey? so i take it youve never had mates die due to speed caused crashes? i live halfway out too toodyay, i drive behind road trains. yeah im a P plater, and not that expirienced with fords/cars, and i know the road is a dangerous place. But its good to see you will just spin the 'hes young, dont even give him a chance' line. Nice mate, i was just tryna put in my opinion like everyone else and you just wanna be to me. good environment.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

No..you reckon these 'p' plater cars are gonna lower the road toll, it isn't the average corolla driving 'p' plater that contribute to the toll.
The question is, how do you stop the out of control youth before they're out of control..you know.. the horse and the gate yeah.

They will reduce the number of crashes and number of deaths from crashes by allowing young people to aquire a new car fitted with all of the latest safety technology such as air bags, anti lock brakes, dynamic stability systems etc instead of 15 year old junkers.
Some rich young people can afford new cars but most can't. In order to make it easier the cars will be subsidised but they will also be mandatory.
There will always be a few super heros who a sure they can drive any car and want XXXX because it looks fully hektic, they will get sorted out.

Speed limits have not worked, power restrictions have not worked.

If the cars are safer then WHEN they are crashed the occupants stand a better chance of surviving and that is the ONLY thing that is important.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Airmon

There are heaps of idiot P Platers driving around, that said, there are heaps of idiot drivers around in general. I don't know why I bothered to watch they story, the faeces they talk just managed to put me in a foul mood. Driving a car is the most dangerous think a P Plater can do? I think swimming in a shark tank with an open wound less then 30minutes after eating would be worse but obviously I'm no expert.

The only thing that differs between younger and older drivers is experience and there is only one way to get it. I guess us P-Platers can't help doing 180 with 4 people in the car.

Therein lies the problem, who teaches P plate drivers? Their parents more than likely. Are mum and dad qualified driving instructors? 99% of the time the answer would be no. Without a doubt bad habits are picked up from their parents.

Try getting a license in Germany or The Netherlands. It's not a luxury, you get a drivers license because you need one. It's an extremely costly and lengthy process, and not everyone passes.

Blaming P Platers IMO is a cop out. It's the authorities who need to be put under the microscope.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

They will reduce the number of crashes and number of deaths from crashes by allowing young people to aquire a new car fitted with all of the latest safety technology such as air bags, anti lock brakes, dynamic stability systems etc instead of 15 year old junkers.
Some rich young people can afford new cars but most can't. In order to make it easier the cars will be subsidised but they will also be mandatory.
There will always be a few super heros who a sure they can drive any car and want XXXX because it looks fully hektic, they will get sorted out.

Speed limits have not worked, power restrictions have not worked.

If the cars are safer then WHEN they are crashed the occupants stand a better chance of surviving and that is the ONLY thing that is important.

You still fail to convince me how providing a safer option for inexperienced drivers is gonna stop the few in every neighbourhood in this country who just dont care for laws or the Toyota Prius.
As i have said, it isnt the rational thinking drivers that kill themselves and their mates, it's the bloke who couldn't give a toss for rules and regulations.

I can see it now..4am...peesing with rain...half a dozen teenagers leaving the pub...outside sits two cars..the aforementioned puss box and the SS commy.

I dont think there will be a coin toss for shotgun in the Prius, the driver will be safely making his way home alone when 5 of his mates fly past in the SS after doing blockies looking for strays.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Zamtro

you think speed contributes NOTHING to ANY deaths hey? so i take it youve never had mates die due to speed caused crashes? i live halfway out too toodyay, i drive behind road trains. yeah im a P plater, and not that expirienced with fords/cars, and i know the road is a dangerous place. But its good to see you will just spin the 'hes young, dont even give him a chance' line. Nice mate, i was just tryna put in my opinion like everyone else and you just wanna be to me. good environment.

You are new here. Read back over the last 4 years of AFF and see what has already been discussed over and over again.

NOTHING is simple. Saying speed has nothing to do with any particular event is just as stupid as saying that speed is always the factor.

Saying that ANYTHING should take absolute control of the vehicle away from the driver is just crazy as there are too many different situations that could occur.

The more you drive, the more you will learn and the more you will understand. Don't get angry when people shoot your ideas down. Usually they have been tried before.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

You still fail to convince me how providing a safer option for inexperienced drivers is gonna stop the few in every neighbourhood in this country who just dont care for laws or the Toyota Prius.
As i have said, it isnt the rational thinking drivers that kill themselves and their mates, it's the bloke who couldn't give a toss for rules and regulations.

I can see it now..4am...peesing with rain...half a dozen teenagers leaving the pub...outside sits two cars..the aforementioned puss box and the SS commy.

I dont think there will be a coin toss for shotgun in the Prius, the driver will be safely making his way home alone when 5 of his mates fly past in the SS after doing blockies looking for strays.

It is not going to save everyone, nothing ever will. It is just designed to make it as difficult as possible for the majority to hurt themselves.

The majority of young people with immature and rebellious attitudes to road safety and driving in general usually either grow out of it or are removed from society, often in an ambulance, although not always...

[BENT_8]

The problem with this media hype i feel is that the topic is recognised and bandied about.
The more people discuss it the more ideas come up to fix it, the more fix it ideas the more the issue is promoted.
Young people are always gonna kill themselves be it in a car, on a trail bike, drugs, alcohol etc etc. all we can hope is that they do it alone and not take anyone else with them.

Unfortunately it is part of life.

For a comparison, Lawn bowls has one of the highest death rates of any sport...why..old men and heart attacks.
Do we stop old people from playing what has always been known as an old mans game because it's bad for their health?
No, it's just the way it is.

[andrewr]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Therein lies the problem, who teaches P plate drivers? Their parents more than likely. Are mum and dad qualified driving instructors? 99% of the time the answer would be no. Without a doubt bad habits are picked up from their parents.

When I got my licence (2001 in WA) parents weren't allowed to teach their kids, you had to hire a driving instructor. The downside was it meant you took the minimum amount of lessons possible to save money (I think I had 10).

Now it takes more hours (log book etc) but they are being taught by parents, and often aren't taught important things.

I think P platers unfortunately are at risk due to inexperience and testosterone (for guys). Some P platers seem to think they are gods gift to driving, and that they can control a slide at 140km/h in the rain with 6 people in the car after 3 pints.

Whats the answer? No idea. Maybe more driver awareness, show kids pictures of accidents and try to scare them into being more careful. That seems to be the wake up call for most people, a near miss, crash or death of a friend..

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is not going to save everyone, nothing ever will. It is just designed to make it as difficult as possible for the majority to hurt themselves.

I dont agree, the way i see it making tougher laws and restricting offenders will just increase the number of likely types.

If it were as simple as you say, why dont they just cut up an offenders licence when they commit the offence?
Because they know they'll drive regardless and in that lies the problem, anything short of incarseration wont work and i cant see them locking up all offenders

[braddyxe51]

Im not sure if it has been mention. Should all new cars have a gps system that gov can track and if you speed automatic get fined.
All the utes, cars and trucks at my work have gps in, the office in perth can track any one of them. See, if you have got somewhere to early they will know you were speeding. If you are not moving they know that something could be wrong. We were watching one oneday and the person driving was a couple hours late and found that they were going the wrong way.

[ltd_on20s]

the problem lies in the thinking of we should have 0 road deaths....that thinking is bullsh*t. people will die regardless of rules put in place. you can try to minimise the harm, but people will still die. people have to accept that driving is a risk and you could die driving to work.

and the biggest killer of young people in australia is not cars. its suicide. i dont see the govt clamping down on youth suicide, putting shackles on all wrists.

we have to understand males usually are simply wired to take risks. full stop. hell when i got my first bmx i tried to jump every kerb i could find till i faceplanted. and it hurt. taught me to take a bit more care.....

i also think the fact of having too much disposable income as well and not enough knowledge makes a bad problem worse, (eg buy a 180sx and stick a whopping great big turbo on it, raise power by 40% and not upgrading brakes/suspension etc).

there is a few good ideas that have been bandied around here one i think in particular that would help is that anyone who is just gettin their p plate should have a car fitted with airbags....and i think some technology is out there to retro fit side airbags too.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont agree, the way i see it making tougher laws and restricting offenders will just increase the number of likely types.

If it were as simple as you say, why dont they just cut up an offenders licence when they commit the offence?
Because they know they'll drive regardless and in that lies the problem, anything short of incarseration wont work and i cant see them locking up all offenders

What about all the accidents by inexperienced drivers who just stuff up? Too fast into a corner say 50km/h instead of 40 or brake late, get caught on a slippery wet or muddy patch, misjudge another vehicles speed or the millions of other things that take experience to learn.

P plater just loses it on a corner 10km/h under the speed limit and hits the only tree for a 100 metres because they were so scared they drove straight into it.

Do you think that a safer car might help them?

What percentage of P plater deaths and injuries are 200km/h over the limit while drunk drag racing in a school yard in GTR skylines? Not a lot, they are just the ones that make the news.

Not all P platers are hoons are rev heads although they are over represented here due to the nature of this forum.

There is a huge problem that a lot of people really do think that if you drive below the speed limit you cannot have an accident. THIS IS JUST STUPID.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont agree, the way i see it making tougher laws and restricting offenders will just increase the number of likely types.

If it were as simple as you say, why dont they just cut up an offenders licence when they commit the offence?
Because they know they'll drive regardless and in that lies the problem, anything short of incarseration wont work and i cant see them locking up all offenders

Flappist mentioned, "the majority".

The majority of drivers basically follow the rules, don't exceed the drinking limit and travel at a safe speed.

There is also a minority of doucheabags who no matter what laws/rules you introduce, their attitude is, "they're made to be broken."
Not everybody who loses their license drives unlicensed. As stated, it's the minority of a minority who does that.

Rules are there to regulate...they cannot control people. People make choices, and live with the consequences of them, good or bad.

There is no one "Golden Rule" that will suddenly make people behave properly.

The laws may be tougher, but they are easy to follow. I'm still young at 25 and while I have the capacity to be a richard cranium, I make the choice to not be, and to follow the damned rules, whether I like them or not.

The .05 rule...most people follow that. A tiny number of people defy it, and a number of these are caught. This rule protects more than the driver from their own stupidity, it also protects other people on the road. My parents were smashed up the backside by a drunken old sod in a Fairlane who blew 0.165. The potential consequences were there. Thank heavens for heavy duty towbars.

It's about be self-responsible, as when you screw up on the road, the only person to blame is yourself.

Originally Posted by braddyxe51

Im not sure if it has been mention. Should all new cars have a gps system that gov can track and if you speed automatic get fined.

Too costly, and everybody goes over the limit, sometimes unintentionally.
Also too hard to police. Going 5km/h over the limit should not warrant any attention. 20km...sure.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

There is also a minority of doucheabags who no matter what laws/rules you introduce, their attitude is, "they're made to be broken."
Not everybody who loses their license drives unlicensed. As stated, it's the minority of a minority who does that.

And you hope these douchebags cull themselves and no one else.

[Tuddy200]

Originally Posted by flappist

Here's an idea.

How about "P Plate cars".

For the first 5 years of your license you are only allowed to drive "p plate cars". These cars are bright colours, 4 doors, front wheel drive, 1 litre engine, ABS, EBD, VDC, lots of air bags and hard limited to 130km/h with an automatic "limp home mode" engaged if you try to do silly things.

All finance of these super safe cars is tax deductible, they are GST free and CANNOT be modified in any way.

Everyone is safer, everyone can afford them but the doofs doofs will hate them.......

Your still not gaining any more experience or skills then you would being a leaner driver. Once you have the restrictions removed because you have reached the age of 21 (Victoria, tpyical situation), you can then have one of these so called "high performance cars", however, you have never driven one, your back to square one.

Training that will allow you to control any car that you may need/have to drive for any purpose on any road or surface.

Of course it also comes back to driver attitude, but thats the same as saying we have all these higher crime rates, because that's the way society has become, it's now "cool" to go hooning.

I know many people that have been effected by having thier mates killed from a driving accident, yet, they still speed and drive stupid themselves, of all ages. It's no longer see and learn a lesson world, it's a see, learn how not to get caught next time and continue world. Until this changes, don't even bother with restrictions, extra training, etc etc, because people of all ages still break the law anyway.