Announcement

[russellw]

I will attempt to answer those questions that are reasoned - the comments from those who wish to simply be abusive I shall leave alone.

So now AFF owns E-Series right? So we have to abide by other rules? What benefits are there for members? Do we have to pay, have meetings, etc?

No AFF does not own E-Series, we are merely the initial registrant and as has been stated many time above it is our wish to transition full control of the registration back to a properly elected Board.

The issue for payment will be one for that Board to determine but it is not necessarily a prerequisite and if it is introduced I suspect it would be nominal anyway.

There is a requirement for at least an Annual General Meeting but this can be held in any number of ways and can even be delegated to the Board solely. Again it is a subject for self determination.

Originally Posted by holmsy

how does the registration work exactly.
because as i believe it would be registered in someones name. wouldn't that person idealy need to be a head person of the club and in turn meen someone would ultimately have control over the club?

The requirement is to nominate a Public Officer only and we have done so on an interim basis. The actual entity (the club) is the registrant and one of the positions that will be elected in due course will be the role of public officer at which time we will provide the registering body with notification of that change.

Originally Posted by Thanatos

Russell, as I'm sure you will agree with, I have always tried to remain an unbiased supporter of the admin team here at AFF, but as far as I can see at this point, it is looking like AFF admin have performed an underhanded act. I would like to be corrected on this, however, but it seems to me that AFF Admin were scared of e-series moving to the 'other' forums and as such have played dirty to ensure they remain in control of the situation. Losing half of the forums traffic to another site would really hurt sponsorship on this one, so I guess it's kind of an 'investment' on your part, right?

I would agree with your assessment of yourself but let me make it quite clear that we have not stood in the way of anyone migrating to an alternate forum and have actively encouraged those who wish to do so. E-Series makes up about 9.6 % of the forum traffic but has (at times) made 70 % of the controversies and our taking this step has been largely based on the belief (and you have heard me say this before) that the E-Series membership represents the future of both the Ford community and this community and as such are to be supported and encouraged at every step.
In that sense then it is, indeed, an investment on our part in the future.

Originally Posted by Thanatos

Also, considering the registration occured more than a week and a half ago (July 23rd according to your original post), why has it taken this long for people to be told?

Surprisingly, the registration was actually dated the same day the application was lodged but we did not receive the written advice until the 1/8 and thus the later announcement.

Originally Posted by EFFaclon

You state in your first post that the 'initial' board will be made up of 3 Admin and 3 Eseries Members.
then 2 Admin will be replaced with 2 E-Series members, leaving 1 Admin in a position of power.
how many Admin are on the board now? NONE.

Indeed this is correct but it has long been an outstanding issue that we have not been in consultation with the Board and this is a way of achieving better communication. Like all things club related, it will be for a future Board and the membership to determine whether that should continue but until such time we will have some input. Sadly, since your removal from a moderation role here your input and general attitude toward the forum and the administration of it has been less than harmonious as evidenced by the comments above.

Originally Posted by efghiar

members can sign up on the eseries site. not hard is it? or should we all become just members, no board, no mods and let aff run what we have helped get this far.

As you seem fond of stating the inane to stir up trouble, let me remind you that the initial post has made it quite clear that there will be a properly elected E-Series Board determined by it's own membership base and without inteference from us. We will have 1/6th of the representation there as our proposal stands at the moment but that is hardly a controlling interest unless you know something about math that I don't.

On a positive note let me add that we are now starting to get some beneficial discussion going with some of the E-Series Board and we may be able to provide more clarification on time frames and the like within the next few days.

Regards
Russ

[Bipolar]

It would appear to me that what has happened shouldn't affect anything other than AFF, that is, that the recently banned members are only banned from AFF and not from the E-Series Owners Club.

[Gunns]

The way it looks it is a low blow. The board should have been consulted IMO and then if nothing was done action should have been taken. To go behind the boards back and do what was done is rather low.

[EdFairmontGhia]

Please correct me if i am wrong but didn't e-series recently have a election process to bring in a new board member?? And from what i have seen E-series have always tried to consult with it's members as to the nomination of board members/mods?? Now that the club is 'registered' why can't we just use our already elected/voted for board members to continue running the club. I'm sure if a new election process was to be set up it would simply reflect the already existing board members.
If this is not possible then when is AFF proposing to start this process, to help put members at ease???

[Leah]

Wow... I miss the old e-series crew!! I never remember any of this crap going on in the past. I must say, seems very suss to say the least!

[oneredED]

...let me remind you that the initial post has made it quite clear that there will be a properly elected E-Series Board determined by it's own membership base and without inteference from us. We will have 1/6th of the representation there as our proposal stands at the moment but that is hardly a controlling interest unless you know something about math that I don't.

That may be the dream, but quite a number of key members are unable to access FF.com.au due to petty disputes. What happens to them? AFF does have control over this club and I think it has been made quite clear by the actions outlined in the initial post. For a member to "get into a seat of power" now they must be approved of by FF admin, or else be banned from the forums like many of the previous e-series leaders. By centralising the club around the forums, you have created a situation whereby you can at least influence heavily, who is in this club and who is not.

There is one point, on which I really would like some clarification. Some of the "admin" here are trying to swing the conversation towards the idea that this is still the same club. Other "admin" are trying to imply that this is a completely fresh start, with new board members etc etc. Which is it? If it's a new club, give us back our name. If it's the same old club but registered, then why the new board members and complete flush-out of all the longest standing members?

I would agree with your assessment of yourself but let me make it quite clear that we have not stood in the way of anyone migrating to an alternate forum and have actively encouraged those who wish to do so.

Russell, I believe you are right. Simple terms:
You have not STOPPED anyone from migrating. You merely FORCED some to migrate to another forum, but before they could take the name with them, you've taken ownership of it.

[TUFED6]

Originally Posted by russellw

On a positive note let me add that we are now starting to get some beneficial discussion going with some of the E-Series Board and we may be able to provide more clarification on time frames and the like within the next few days.

You didn't answer my question. Why would AFF take it upon itself to incorporate someone elses club?

Do you make a habit of involving yourself in the affairs of organizations that you have absolutely no association with?

Who is the public officer? It seems to me that this individual has trespassed on the intellectual property of the E-series club, having registered the club with no authorization from the board members.

[b2tf]

Spose before I post this I do need to qualify myself, yes Im a mod on AFF but I have no input/investment in what happens to Eseries etc.

The way I interpret this whole action is that admin have set up (for want of a better term) a "clubhouse" for the eseries members. They have done it with the interests of getting you guys back on track after the recent incidences, and are now saying "here are the keys, we've set it up, now we want you to run it and look after it".

So they havent gone and "bought out" eseries or anything like that, if anything, you guys have been handed a great setup to base the club on and get it 110% now. I remember seeing threads in here over time about board member nominations etc with bugger all replies - seems to me like those who are carrying on about this happening now are the same ones who never actually bothered to have some input or some proactive action to make this happens earlier.

Sunny, Dan etc (i dont know all the names of them) - yes they're gone, they carried on like morons and whether they owned ESeries or BSeries or whatever, they would have got the boot from here soon enough. Everybody knows and nobody is above the T&C, hell even moderators from here have been booted in the past (and Im not actually referring to EFFalcon by saying that). The point is, whether they created eseries or whatever or not, they broke site T&C, they go, it is that simple. They started their own website, more power to them, nobody's saying that was a bad move and certainly nobody in AFF has a problem with it.

Point being - the infrastructure is now in place, it doesnt come with any strings attached, so why not put all of this aside, and start building on it and making the club what it should be.

[oneredED]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Sunny, Dan etc (i dont know all the names of them) - yes they're gone, they carried on like morons and whether they owned ESeries or BSeries or whatever, they would have got the boot from here soon enough. Everybody knows and nobody is above the T&C, hell even moderators from here have been booted in the past (and Im not actually referring to EFFalcon by saying that). The point is, whether they created eseries or whatever or not, they broke site T&C, they go, it is that simple.

Yes they broke THIS sites' T&C. You have said it yourself, that this was a hosted site for the e-series club to use. Therefore by breaking the T&C of this site only, and not the T&C of the existing e-series owners club, they should technically still be allowed to be a part of this club. And who are you to say that they would've been kicked out of the club "soon enough" for breaking T&C? Fordforums.com.au and e-series.com.au were separate entities, therefore FF.com.au membership had no bearing on whether you were a club member or not. You are also assuming that the club was going to stay at it's current location.

[EA2BA]

Anyone who has my MSN and wants to chat 1 on 1 feel free, send a PM if you would like my MSN details.

[mcflux]

Based on your avatar, I'd say the clubhouse will have a bit of a "nohomers" problem. I've stated before (in the "E-Series???" thread) that an AFF-based forum for E-Series is a gracious act, however with the barring of key senior E-Series members, it is flawed.

But we're straying from the point here.

The point is, AFF have taken it upon themselves to be the initial registrant of the club's name.

[EFFalcon]

Club should be run by 100% E-Series Members and 0% AFF Admin
buy an eseries then we might take you seriously.

Does anyone even know what benefits club rego has?
so far no ones been able to give me a good answer, hence why we never did it.

[Leah]

Man im so confused... my brains in weekend mode already so i apologise in advance...

I always thought that the e-series club was seperate to the e-series forum on ff.com.au... So this announcement now means that AFF owns the e-series club, website, "NAME", stickers, etc etc etc...??

And if this is correct, does that mean if an AFF admin person has a beef with something said on the AFF e-series forum, that they will be removed as a member from the e-series club??

As I said, if this has already been clarified... just ignore me :P

[EFFalcon]

If the current E-Series Board was to decide to have E-Series Forums not based on AFF, would AFF Admin support that move, and would the newly registered club go with that move or would AFF continue with an Eseries Club forum on here.

Looks like a conflict of interest between AFF and E-Series, is that whats best for the club? NO!

[needfordspeed]

does that mean if an AFF admin person has a beef with something said on the AFF e-series forum, that they will be removed as a member from the e-series club??

that already happens!!!

[mcflux]

To build on John's post, here's what happened to the E-Series section on the old fordforums.com when the E-Series members made the move to here in 2005 --> http://www.fordforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=647

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by oneredED

Yes they broke THIS sites' T&C. You have said it yourself, that this was a hosted site for the e-series club to use. Therefore by breaking the T&C of this site only, and not the T&C of the existing e-series owners club, they should technically still be allowed to be a part of this club.

They can be still in the club. They're just not welcome on this site (of which eseries is a part).

And who are you to say that they would've been kicked out of the club "soon enough" for breaking T&C? Fordforums.com.au and e-series.com.au were separate entities, therefore FF.com.au membership had no bearing on whether you were a club member or not.

See above point. FFAU members are bound by FFAU T&C and for as long as you post on here, regardless of what section you post in, that's how it is.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by EdFairmontGhia

Now that the club is 'registered' why can't we just use our already elected/voted for board members to continue running the club. I'm sure if a new election process was to be set up it would simply reflect the already existing board members.
If this is not possible then when is AFF proposing to start this process, to help put members at ease???

We are having some discussions on this topic presently. At present we would like a joint effort while the details are sorted out but it is also quite clear that we don't have the full support of the present board and this will create some difficuties moving ahead with that group. Some have indicated support while others are holding reasoned discussions and we will address this issue as quickly as possible.

[quite=TUFED6] You didn't answer my question. Why would AFF take it upon itself to incorporate someone elses club?

Do you make a habit of involving yourself in the affairs of organizations that you have absolutely no association with?
[/quote]The question has been answered multiple times above but let me reiterate. It wasn't, in fact, anyone's club, whatever some individuals may choose to believe as it was a loosely held association of individuals with an unofficial structure. The Board, with no official status, could neither provide or deny authorisation to take the action we took as it has no actual grounds on which to do so and to suggest that we have no association with it is to belie the obvious, given that we are discussing it here.

Originally Posted by Gunns

The way it looks it is a low blow. The board should have been consulted IMO and then if nothing was done action should have been taken. To go behind the boards back and do what was done is rather low.

The board had been consulted on numerous occasions over the last 18 months and probably beyond on this exact topic so the suggestion that anyone has gone behind their back is hardly supported by the facts.

Originally Posted by oneredED

That may be the dream, but quite a number of key members are unable to access FF.com.au due to petty disputes. What happens to them? AFF does have control over this club and I think it has been made quite clear by the actions outlined in the initial post. For a member to "get into a seat of power" now they must be approved of by FF admin, or else be banned from the forums like many of the previous e-series leaders. By centralising the club around the forums, you have created a situation whereby you can at least influence heavily, who is in this club and who is not.

I can only agree that some members no longer have access to AFF and at least one of them won't ever have but under the proposed structure we are obviosuly looking at how we can incoporate the remaining members who have had their access removed as a part of the "new" beginning. There is precedent for that and if they wish to return then we will consider all such requests.
We have not suggested that anyone not wishing to accept these changes will be banned and that is not our intention as long as the site T&C is adhered to and nor have we suggested that the Board should be made up of people we approve of - we will call for nominations in due course and let the membership decide who should represent them. That has been stated quite clearly above but it is worth repeating. Our sphere of influence will be restricted to that of an asssistance role during the transition period rather than one that suggest us calling the shots.

There is one point, on which I really would like some clarification. Some of the "admin" here are trying to swing the conversation towards the idea that this is still the same club. Other "admin" are trying to imply that this is a completely fresh start, with new board members etc etc. Which is it? If it's a new club, give us back our name. If it's the same old club but registered, then why the new board members and complete flush-out of all the longest standing members?

I will reiterate that we are not flushing anyone out - even the people in this thread who have taken an anti AFF stance are free to do so within the terms of the site T&C and sanctions will not be taken against them.
In terms of what the change actually is - it is a new start for an existing platform that allows the actual structure to have a legal status with the attendant rights and responsibilities this brings.
As you will be aware the present board was voted in with a small number of votes and this is not reflective of the actual size of the membership - this is one of the reasons why we would seek to hold new elections but we are required to anyway by the legal obligations placed on the Incoporated Association.

[Stevo]

I want Thanatos' question answered.

Now that you have registered it Russell/AFF?Whoever, are you going to transfer it into Jack Travis's name?

[DJL351]

My god! What is going on here?

As an outsider and being on the other side of the country, I'm sure my post will be overlooked by 90% of e-series owners.
But, meh.... so be it.

Inc is a GOOD thing.


From posts on here so far, it seems the issue the current E-Series group is having, is the feeling
they have/will loose their identity... not true.
Check out the Constitutions of some of the other Incorp clubs within AFF, you will find it requires a Committee/Board in place,
to over see/run the club and protect it from harm, both externally and internally.
The person that registered our club is not a member now and has not been near the club for over four years now....

In this day of litigation, it is important to have the right backing
as to stop any one person being held responsable should something go wrong.
(someone is injured while on a cruise etc)

Or is it the fact that becoming an Incorp will force the "Board/Committee" to become responable to it's members?
Is it the fact that they would now have to stop all the "silly things" done on events etc?

As for the talk of who now would "run/own" the Club.... that should/will be decided, through
a Nomination and Ballot process that will need to be outlined in the Constitution.

While AFF might have "control" over these forums, this does not translate to control of the club.
(you all need to realise they are two seperate parts that are linked together)

I would suggest that E-series members do some checking/investigating before going off at the deep end.

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by russellw

The board had been consulted on numerous occasions over the last 18 months and probably beyond on this exact topic so the suggestion that anyone has gone behind their back is hardly supported by the facts.

BULL $H!T - saying 'we'll help you pay for it', and us not taking up that offer does NOT justify just going and doing it.

the fact is, you went and registered OUR club, NOT YOUR CLUB without our approval. For that reason you are an ********. (yes, i said that publicly)

[russellw]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

If the current E-Series Board was to decide to have E-Series Forums not based on AFF, would AFF Admin support that move, and would the newly registered club go with that move or would AFF continue with an Eseries Club forum on here.

Looks like a conflict of interest between AFF and E-Series, is that whats best for the club? NO!

If that is your decision as a group then we will support it but you had better make that call soon before we start down the path of formalising the structure using AFF as a base.

We would retain an E-Series area but we would refrain from using the club name and we would apply to cancel the registration we have just instituted.

Frankly, and I gather from the tone of your PM's that you don't believe this, we have only had the best interests of this group at heart and if you decide that is better served elsewhere then so be it.

Clearly you and I are unable to work together as far as this matter is concerned and while some of your board may wish to do so it is neither my intent or wish to further fragment your group.

Russ

[EFFalcon]

IMO you should just cancel the registration.
problem solvered!

[oneredED]

Russell, that clears a few things up.

If I've interpreted this right;
- you are in discussions with SOME board members, and you are going to let us know of any outcomes as they happen?
- the club is now "owned" by FF.com.au
- any members who are currently banned from these forums can still be a member of the E-series club
- the board positions will be voted on by ALL members (even those unable to view this site)

Is this correct?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Stevo

I want Thanatos' question answered.

Now that you have registered it Russell/AFF?Whoever, are you going to transfer it into Jack Travis's name?

Happy to answer that one. Jack resigned from the E-Series Board about a month ago and thus that really isn't an option. Beside which, could you actually tell me which of the several people who "claim" to own E-Series should it be??

The reality is than no one (especially us) does.

Russ

[TUFED6]

Originally Posted by russellw

The question has been answered multiple times above but let me reiterate. It wasn't, in fact, anyone's club, whatever some individuals may choose to believe as it was a loosely held association of individuals with an unofficial structure. The Board, with no official status, could neither provide or deny authorisation to take the action we took as it has no actual grounds on which to do so and to suggest that we have no association with it is to belie the obvious, given that we are discussing it here.

Thats certainly an interesting opinion. I don't think anyone would deny that the club existed simply because it wasn't incorporated. The 'official' status that your logic is based on is fairly tenuous at best.

And as you have always said, the forum here for the E-series club was provided as a courtesy- no affiliation was ever implied.

So when the newly elected 'official' board is in place if they chose to move the discussion forums to a different site AFF will have no issue with that?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

IMO you should just cancel the registration.
problem solvered!

Sadly, mate, you actually can't make that decision as an individual.

Russ

[russellw]

Originally Posted by TUFED6

So when the newly elected 'official' board is in place if they chose to move the discussion forums to a different site AFF will have no issue with that?

Answered in my reply to EFFalcon above.

[Leah]

Originally Posted by oneredED

...
If I've interpreted this right;
...
- any members who are currently banned from these forums can still be a member of the E-series club
- the board positions will be voted on by ALL members (even those unable to view this site)
Is this correct?

Thats what I was trying to ask ... in my round-about kind of way!

[pHaT`eL]

Thats just dodgy. You said youve got the best interest in mind for the club, yet if we want to move it, you dont want anything to do with it.
Absolute crap!!