SCT FlashTuner Fallout? All the info is here. - Page 4

NEEDspeed · 31-01-2009, 12:18 AM

Thanks for the reply, if a little textbook it allays some of our fears.

My car was due in at a tuner 2 weeks from now so we'll see I guess.

**SSD-85** · 31-01-2009, 12:25 AM

Well aint this a complete load, so I can't go and get version 1 Flash box and use it? what about if i have no intention on getting new tunes? is there still availabilty to tune the car with it?

snappy · 31-01-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeHaveIgnition

Well aint this a complete load, so I can't go and get version 1 Flash box and use it? what about if i have no intention on getting new tunes? is there still availabilty to tune the car with it?

At this point no . But it would pay to read the last page

loony888 · 31-01-2009, 12:35 AM

well, for me at least, it matters not that herrod will have things "locked down and back to normal" in the morning. SCT have shown their hand and frankly, if that is their version of customer support i will never spend a cent with them. They write their software, if that software is vulnerable to tampering and fraudulent use by dealers, tuners, end users or whoever, then that's tough ! they should protect their product better by writing better software, i have no idea how widespread the problems are but i am confident the majority of end users have shelled out money to use and re use a product legally. As for tuners who are affiliated with SCT, i feel for you, in these difficult economic times to have the rug pulled out from under by a business partner with no notice is disgraceful.
I'm not convinced that it's just a matter of "sorry, we're not supporting that version anymore", windows has been used as an example, but in their case they release version after version of new software, and release patches to keep older software running until it is uneconomical and impractical to continue to release patches, the consumer is well aware that their software is near the end of it's useful life, as is the hardware it's running in, but at no time do microsoft send a virus through the internet to turn your computer off for good, deliberately. A more relevant comparison would be buying a hard drive to back up your data on your PC and then the computer police confiscate everyones usb cable and ports and say "they don't work anymore, to access your back up you must buy this new cable and port". that's extortion. now where did i see that sniper advertised?

paul.

snappy · 31-01-2009, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herrod Motorsport

I will give a full rundown on the series of events that has made this mayhem happen in a later post , i had no idea that SCT were doing this apart from wanting to shut down the unlocking of the boxes .
At this time i would like to tell you i have it 95 % sorted and hopefully by the morning i will have it locked down and things will be back to normal .

Well i can understand why they would want to stop the unlocking of the boxes.
But they have gone the wrong way about doing it . In my eyes the made you and them look like a greedy bunch of crims . I hope the treat you better than they treat us. Good luck in your new business venture

Pedro · 31-01-2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

its one thing to not support a product after a period of time. its something else altogether when your product is sabotaged forcing you to upgrade if you want to continue having that functionality.

Yes, I think there is some illegallity here under Australian industrial and consumer laws, but I have to say it's looking very messy.

If someone's in full comprehension of what's going on here, then please run it past the ACCC.

XRQTR · 31-01-2009, 12:46 AM

Herrods you say ai, why doesn't that surprise me.

edit (just saw your post) - how in blazes could you possibly expect us to believe that you had no idea that any of this was going to happen, I'm sure there must have been some kind of correspondance between yourself and SCT.

I think I'll be doing some looking around now, actually this has made my decision on the engine rebuild easy, I can take a little more time,

And Flappist that reverse engineering is a pretty good idea, if they are binning it then they can't argue any restriction of trade, as for any copyright they have rendered the product obsolete thereby opening the doors to anyone really. I'm sure there would be quite a few tuners more than happy to supply a software engineer with all the relevant programming software.

Romulus · 31-01-2009, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herrod Motorsport

I will give a full rundown on the series of events that has made this mayhem happen in a later post , i had no idea that SCT were doing this apart from wanting to shut down the unlocking of the boxes .
At this time i would like to tell you i have it 95 % sorted and hopefully by the morning i will have it locked down and things will be back to normal .

Somebody must have had an idea Rob. If you had no idea this was being done then why the following statement in the email sent out by your company this morning? Details as follows:

"SCT has discontinued support on both the Xcal1 and Xcal2 devices. The more advanced X3 #3000AU unit will provide you with better results with minimal efforts. Simply dial in your own calibration and off you go."

I sure as heck wouldn't allow somebody to release an announcement on behalf of my business without me approving it. Dare I say they should have communicated their intentions more clearly. Further to that, if they have a beef with CAPA, why are CAPA still listed as a distributor on their website? Damn confusing!

MITCHAY · 31-01-2009, 12:54 AM

I'd be carefull about reverse engineering though. You may be up for all sorts of crap.

G6ET8U · 31-01-2009, 12:57 AM

What a mess.

XRQTR · 31-01-2009, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I'd be carefull about reverse engineering though. You may be up for all sorts of crap.

If you mean legally, the company (SCT) have rendered the system obsolete while having many (thousands) of users reliant on this system. If they are walking away from the product then someone has to service the product and in turn the customers, it would be very easy to argue the company took the money and run, no judge likes that. :evil3:

b0son · 31-01-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAT600

For those that want to continue to enhance or change their tune but cannot, it is like not being able to buy the latest "hardware" to make their box run a newer and more complicated program.

Its more like having a computer which one day tells you 'we at microsoft have removed this computer's ability to accept any new files' ... would you accept this situation?

What if you've only just bought one? 'sorry, this computer doesnt actually have a hard drive, nor is there any way to connect one'....

snappy · 31-01-2009, 01:19 AM

Navman did this with ther first gps you could not update the maps . But the were good about it if you traded in your old gps they gave you a brand new one for the cost of the new map.

**CAT600** · 31-01-2009, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Its more like having a computer which one day tells you 'we at microsoft have removed this computer's ability to accept any new files' ... would you accept this situation?

What if you've only just bought one? 'sorry, this computer doesnt actually have a hard drive, nor is there any way to connect one'....

Actually, I do not disagree with you, I was trying to expand on the point made by Mark.

To me, it stinks of corporate greed, and apart from the fact that we may have to go out and buy SOME form of new tuning device, there will be quite a lot of guys out there that will simply not be able to afford to retune there cars AT ALL, for a while.

This is not only bad for them, it is really going to affect the workshops that have supported SCT all this time.

I just do not see any scenario here that advances SCT's stranglehold on the Aussie Ford market......... short of reversing their decision?

Daniel

wodahs · 31-01-2009, 02:07 AM

www.snipertuning.com and they do a software disk thats compatible for our ausi cars

american sniper bulletin board talkin bout us and our tuning
http://www.snipertuningforums.com/vi...5406e2a36ceb1b

edit forgot to say bpt can help with these and more info on them

XRQTR · 31-01-2009, 02:15 AM

I know a shop that's ready to go with VCM now, live tuning is the way to go for both the tuner and the end user, tuner gets more jobs done makes it cheaper for customers.

We'll find out soon how VCM goes as the car they are about to tune currently holds a record or two, and I ain't talkin 10's. :evil3:

flappist · 31-01-2009, 02:19 AM

A few points to consider.

Australia has some interesting laws concerning commercial fraud, blackmail and cyber terrorism.
Australia also has several treaties in place with USA that specifically concern crimes committed over the internet, the ones often used to charge and/or extradite software pirates and kiddie porn users etc.

These nice little SCT bullies may just find themselves with a visit from their FBI.....

ozrunner · 31-01-2009, 02:20 AM

Rob or can anyone advise whether this "action" will also include support for future retunes with the EA-EL Falcons - Eliminator Switch Chip as I was intending to purchase one.

XRQTR · 31-01-2009, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

A few points to consider.

Australia has some interesting laws concerning commercial fraud, blackmail and cyber terrorism.
Australia also has several treaties in place with USA that specifically concern crimes committed over the internet, the ones often used to charge and/or extradite software pirates and kiddie porn users etc.

These nice little SCT bullies may just find themselves with a visit from their FBI.....

Bordering more on extortion and stand over tactics, to not tell your tuners you are taking something away could also be argued as restriction of trade by means of deception.

SpoolMan · 31-01-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

I know a shop that's ready to go with VCM now, live tuning is the way to go for both the tuner and the end user, tuner gets more jobs done makes it cheaper for customers.

We'll find out soon how VCM goes as the car they are about to tune currently holds a record or two, and I ain't talkin 10's. :evil3:

Heard it all before its coming its coming for 3 or 4 years now, I knew shops that were asked to test this product in beta 3 years ago...

:

XRQTR · 31-01-2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Heard it all before its coming its coming for 3 or 4 years now, I knew shops that were asked to test this product in beta 3 years ago...

:

All I can say is what I've been told, they were hand building the exhaust and some other bits when I was last their, might venture out tomorrow if he's their I'll see where their at and report straight back to you herr komandant, yavol. raus, schnell

:

Speaking of which I might come round if you're home tomorrow.

ozrunner · 31-01-2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Rob or can anyone advise whether this "action" will also include support for future retunes with the EA-EL Falcons - Eliminator Switch Chip as I was intending to purchase one.

Just been PM'd that there is no affect on switch chips. Thanks ..b

:
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SpoolMan · 31-01-2009, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

All I can say is what I've been told, they were hand building the exhaust and some other bits when I was last their, might venture out tomorrow if he's their I'll see where their at and report straight back to you herr komandant, yavol. raus, schnell

:

Speaking of which I might come round if you're home tomorrow.

Only today I read and I will quote one of the owners of the HP Tuners '' we are looking for more shops to test our beta version software''.
This would mean its still not ready, I know a BF F6 that was tuned on it 12 months ago, its went almost straight back on to SCT edit.

I am locking the door..lol..
Might go for a run see George Haddad to buy some VP 109 give me a call if you get up before midday.

schnoods · 31-01-2009, 02:54 AM

Out of curiosity, will it effect the SCT Switch chip eliminator?

SpoolMan · 31-01-2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schnoods

Out of curiosity, will it effect the SCT Switch chip eliminator?

post 112, is the same chip

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Just been PM'd that there is no affect on switch chips. Thanks ..b

:
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GTP-814 · 31-01-2009, 08:20 AM

Holly crap CAPA man...my head is a buz after reading all of this....Am I correct in my understanding that if you have a current custom tune on the car but want to have it changed in the future the tuning shops can not enhance what you already have. If this is the case the tune I have is the best I will ever get on the existing CAPA box?

thanks

MITCHAY · 31-01-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

If you mean legally, the company (SCT) have rendered the system obsolete while having many (thousands) of users reliant on this system. If they are walking away from the product then someone has to service the product and in turn the customers, it would be very easy to argue the company took the money and run, no judge likes that. :evil3:

All I'm saying is you're going to do it, understand any legalities and have a good laywer. Companies do not like this one bit!

**Luke Plaizier** · 31-01-2009, 10:46 AM

Rick and Charlie from SCT, who's contact details are listed on the 1st page, are reading and responding to messages. I received a response from them early this morning, although the message to me was more about defending their position rather than offering hope for a satisfactory resolution. I did not request their permission to show their message(s) publicly so out of respect I will not do so.

If you are going to send an email, just be polite and considerate and state your point diplomatically. The point being, the more people that email, the more they will understand how many people they have affected.

To be honest, I don't really understand what's going on with all this 'Unlocking' business, and don't want to understand, because as an 'End User' I just want to continue to use this tool for the functioanlity that was sold to me. But that unlocking is the stated source of their concern, because as an end-user, it is a combination of SCT and this unlocking practice that has directly affected me as a customer, and not the unlocking practice alone.

I have been advised that any solution that is forthcoming will only be temporary, and that anyone who has purchased an older SCT unit will have to, at some point, upgrade to a new unit.

What this means to me is that if it is not resolved in a more satsifactory manner, I will not be a returning SCT customer, and I would suggest that most, if not all, existing SCT customers who have been affected by this should consider doing the same. But I can appreciate to some degree the grievance that has triggered it.

Given that this action can only serve to considerably damage the reputation of SCT in Australia, we must also consider the possibility that SCT themselves may be close to insolvency, and this decision has been taken as a desperate measure to generate new revenue before collapse.

Luke

Laminge · 31-01-2009, 11:08 AM

Speechless

Both at Come and Pay Again CAPA and some of the posts in this thread by people who should know better.

Before I have to read more crap can we keep it to the facts and leave the rest out

I certainly think there is more to the story and no matter how many statements are made, time has a way to hunt out people whom pray on the average enthusiast.

tex · 31-01-2009, 11:16 AM

Many of us paid full retail way back in 2003, for me, that was $1295, not the 'specials' and run out stock that later purchases have forked for........ probably about 1/2 what I paid.

If the retunability of these original units does indeed become inoperative, through unsupported software, then like many others, I will not upgrade to a new SCT version of Flash tuner, they can go get f$^ked. Not another cent will come from me.

Not sure what the alternatives will be, maybe aftermarket engine management like Motec or Autronic?? Whatever format our tuners are best experienced and getting good results from I suppose.

I would hope that common sense will prevail, and SCT will see the negative fall out out from there recent actions will be more significant that the new, 'underhanded' method of recreating revinue.

If the new version will not generate sales through improved / additional features in comparison to existing units, it aint worth squat. And the people from SCT should go back to the drawing board and design hardware and software with features that attracts customers on it's own merrits. Additional features that customers see as value and offering advantages worthy of more spend.

leave existing owners of original units alone. We have not rorted anything, we have paid for the product based on it's transferability between vehicles we own.

I am still amased that a market as small as Australia, has been deemed enough of an impact on SCT revinue base, that it's necessatated this unproffessional, and underhanded course of action.