The ETS (Extra Tax Scheme) has been DEFEATED - Page 4

Walt Kowalski · 11-12-2009, 07:09 AM

Excellent article where the writer talks about the politicalization of "science" generally but Copenhagen as an example

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120803402.html

When you read it don't be put off by the writers name.

She has been unfairly portrayed by the LEFT media. That same media who treated Barrack Hussein Obama as some sort of all time hero on the rise and still give him more than a fair go now

She is SMART, real smart I reckon, but the LEFT media portrays her as dumb to fool the gullible which, lets face it, is a fair wack of the population.

Why do they do that? She has a history of standing up to the LEFT as Gov AND WINNING.

I think they are actually scared of her ever getting into National power. She would expose them big time.

Cobra · 11-12-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Excellent article where the writer talks about the politicalization of "science" generally but Copenhagen as an example

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120803402.html

When you read it don't be put off by the writers name.

She has been unfairly portrayed by the LEFT media. That same media who treated Barrack Hussein Obama as some sort of all time hero on the rise and still give him more than a fair go now

She is SMART, real smart I reckon, but the LEFT media portrays her as dumb to fool the gullible which, lets face it, is a fair wack of the population.

Why do they do that? She has a history of standing up to the LEFT as Gov AND WINNING.

I think they are actually scared of her ever getting into National power. She would expose them big time.

That same article was posted on a now closed thread. And I agree with your sentiments re Sarah Palin. If you check the now closed thread you'll see what I think of her and the way that she's been portrayed. Our opinions are very closely aligned on the ETS issue, and as it would appear, individual politicians as well.

MO · 11-12-2009, 10:30 AM

Please keep it civil guys,would hate to see this one closed.

Work Horse · 11-12-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Excellent article where the writer talks about the politicalization of "science" generally but Copenhagen as an example

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120803402.html

When you read it don't be put off by the writers name.

She has been unfairly portrayed by the LEFT media. That same media who treated Barrack Hussein Obama as some sort of all time hero on the rise and still give him more than a fair go now

She is SMART, real smart I reckon, but the LEFT media portrays her as dumb to fool the gullible which, lets face it, is a fair wack of the population.

Why do they do that? She has a history of standing up to the LEFT as Gov AND WINNING.

I think they are actually scared of her ever getting into National power. She would expose them big time.

I believe the point you are making, "don't shot the messenger", is quite relevant and correct.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...215771336.html
Some interesting opinions in this article and quite relevant to present discussion, if you can get past who the author is.

||| · 11-12-2009, 03:30 PM

wrong thread. ignore

||| · 11-12-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Excellent article where the writer talks about the politicalization of "science" generally but Copenhagen as an example

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120803402.html

When you read it don't be put off by the writers name.

She has been unfairly portrayed by the LEFT media. That same media who treated Barrack Hussein Obama as some sort of all time hero on the rise and still give him more than a fair go now

She is SMART, real smart I reckon, but the LEFT media portrays her as dumb to fool the gullible which, lets face it, is a fair wack of the population.

Why do they do that? She has a history of standing up to the LEFT as Gov AND WINNING.

I think they are actually scared of her ever getting into National power. She would expose them big time.

i agree. the way poor sarah was treated reminded me of the way poor pauline hanson was over here by the leftist media. a woman rocks the boat and the fat cats cant take it.

BAxtER · 11-12-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Quite alot of scientists concur that it is a fraud and that the climate is changing naturally as per various cycles both 30 year, and 800 year.
Over 33,000 scientists in the USA alone are suing Al Gore for fraud.
The founder of the weather channel is also looking at suing Al Gore for fraud.

The fact remains, the UN wants your cash and AGW is merely a trojan horse for this to happen. You call us sceptics; I call us patriots. Google climategate.

Couldnt have said it better myself, the more people understand the false info behind climate change the better. Also Walt Kowalski, nice article!

rodderz · 12-12-2009, 08:19 AM

This article today seems to think the government will get it passed through next year, asking for tenders of companies to do the carbon trading. Wonder how many pollies have already or are about to set up a company like Al Gore?

This proves that it's all about the $$- if they were serious about climate change they would be focussing moreso on the environmental actions

Quote:

Government pushing ahead with rejected ETS

From: AAP
December 12, 2009 7:01AM

THE Federal Government is pushing ahead with its planned emissions trading scheme, despite legislation for the ETS being defeated in the Senate last week for the second time.

The Department of Climate Change called on Friday for tenders from companies wanting to design, operate and manage the complex auctions of millions of carbon emissions permits each year, Fairfax newspapers say.

The department also said it will issue a separate tender request early next year for settlement services for the hundreds of financial transactions expected to be generated by the auctions under the scheme.

The auctions cannot start unless the legislation for the scheme passes the Senate, which seems unlikely after the Coalition dumped its support for emissions trading policy under its new leader, Tony Abbott.

The Government has said it will reintroduce the Bills a third time when Parliament resumes in February.

The auctions are the scheme's central mechanism for putting a price on carbon emissions.

The scheme would require businesses which emit large volumes of greenhouse gases to buy enough permits each year to cover those emissions.

After an initial year in which the permits would be sold at a fixed price of $10 per tonne of carbon, the Government would auction permits with the carbon price being set by these sales.

The department told potential bidders for the job of running the auctions they had until February to lodge their tenders.

It plans to enter a contract from the end of May but may alter this timetable.

**Falcon Coupe** · 12-12-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

This article today seems to think the government will get it passed through next year, asking for tenders of companies to do the carbon trading. Wonder how many pollies have already or are about to set up a company like Al Gore?

This proves that it's all about the $$- if they were serious about climate change they would be focussing moreso on the environmental actions

Exactly, the ETS is so flawed it cannot be about anything else. The rich get richer at the expense of the average worker.

If the ETS goes through it will be a sad day for this country, the repercussions will be felt for the rest of our lives, i see it as step towards making us a 3rd world country.

Romulus · 12-12-2009, 09:49 AM

What a bloody disgrace!

4Vman · 12-12-2009, 10:38 AM

Case study:

I'm in the Point of sales display industry, i had a brief from a client last week for a "green" display solution for their products, a counter unit for 120 stores, we looked at a number of alternatives and settled on hardwood machined and clear coated with an environmentally friendly water based clear system, it ticked all the boxes for green, recyclable and sustainable.. it ended up coming out at $450.00 per unit, i also costed the same unit from MDF with 2 pack paint finish as a reference and it came in at $220.00... The client nearly feinted.
That's real money, start forcing people to go this way and taxing them if they don't is going to hurt EVERY consumer.
Im all for reducing emissions and living "greener" but not at the expense of common sense and our way of life and cost of living.
A gradual awareness and adoption of "greener" habits is needed, not a sledge hammer taxation minefield.

MO · 12-12-2009, 12:06 PM

Maybe now is the time to start hitting the local politicians,hard, as to how this is going to affect everyone. Tell them we don't want this tax regime,they have to find a better way.

4Vman · 12-12-2009, 12:11 PM

I agree MO, hit your local member up.
The other point id like to make here is some people see the Govt as some kind of private enterprise where the pollies pocket the tax, this is simply not the case.
This proposed tax is revenue raising to fund repayment of our debt (KRudd handout etc) and support our welfare spending...
We need to look at where Govt spend our money and think carefully about what is needed and what's just supporting lazy lifestyles and vote with our brains...

BAxtER · 12-12-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Exactly, the ETS is so flawed it cannot be about anything else. The rich get richer at the expense of the average worker.

If the ETS goes through it will be a sad day for this country, the repercussions will be felt for the rest of our lives, i see it as step towards making us a 3rd world country.

Correct, interesting to read your final paragraph fc, that it would be a sad day for this country if it went through. But as citizens of this country in a democratic society, we have the freedom to stand up and not put up with this. Just cause a few pollies in canberra put a plan through doesn't mean we have to cop it. Suppose a large amount of the population went on the streets for demonstrations (peaceful) until the message got across, we would have a chance?? Just want to know if the majority of Australians would do this?

4Vman · 12-12-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAxtER

Correct, interesting to read your final paragraph fc, that it would be a sad day for this country if it went through. But as citizens of this country in a democratic society, we have the freedom to stand up and not put up with this. Just cause a few pollies in canberra put a plan through doesn't mean we have to cop it. Suppose a large amount of the population went on the streets for demonstrations (peaceful) until the message got across, we would have a chance?? Just want to know if the majority of Australians would do this?

The smartest and most effective way to "protest" is at the polling booth...

**Falcon Coupe** · 12-12-2009, 04:24 PM

As suggested I wrote to my local MP today, also informed him of the discussion here.

http://www.jasonwood.com.au/

**Full Noise** · 12-12-2009, 06:12 PM

Unfortunately, our local member is Daniel Andrews, one of our shining stars in state politics, not.

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/minist...task=view&id=6

Regardless of his level of competency, I’ll be letting him know what I think about the Emission Trading Scam. My email might end up in the delete file, however, they’ll have to physically throw the printed copy in the bin.

I’ll post a copy of it here when it’s done.

rodderz · 12-12-2009, 06:20 PM

good idea

I'm not usually one for protests, writing to pollies or that kind of thing, but after looking into this whole debate and seeing it for the load of rubbish that the scheme is, it's hard not to want to get up those who want it implemented so badly. If this thing comes in and even if half the things happen that are reportedly going to happen, the next couple of years will be the last we will have as they currently are.

Auslandau · 12-12-2009, 06:45 PM

I just cannot understand the push for signing something that was only a draft before C'hagen. What negotiations would Australia have against everyone else if it was already signed away .....
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Nati...al_405188.html
Penny Wong is arguing now that they do not agree with what the summit is now recommending. If this thing was signed before hand, would the others be able to tell her (Aust) to get stuffed as you have signed sealed and delivered the document?

This is a fiasco by the g'ment and is putting Aust in a position with absolutely no recourse. Whether any one agrees or not about GW, this could have been an unmitigated disaster ..... thats even if they give two hoots about we have to say!

| [/url] |

**cs123** · 12-12-2009, 07:22 PM

Interesting that the Chinese are advocating population control as a method for reducing green house gases.

It's a pretty good idea IMO

rodderz · 12-12-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cs123

Interesting that the Chinese are advocating population control as a method for reducing green house gases.

It's a pretty good idea IMO

That idea has been put foreward as a a rumoured proposal by some of the UN members and Bilderberg group too

MO · 12-12-2009, 09:48 PM

The reality is that population control is the only logical way to reduce pollution.N.B. I'm not talking about that global warming crap.
Less people =less resources used=less pollution.
However, the big problem with this is the third world countries where they breed like rabbits. Did I hear someone say sterilisation,India tried it even to the point of dragging them in off the streets sterilise them,pay them,send them on their way. Didn't work.
China has and I think still has a one child policy,is it working?

Could this also be part of the one world governments agenda?

**Full Noise** · 12-12-2009, 10:00 PM

Here’s a link showing countries and their carbon emissions. The data was from 2006 but it still gives a pretty good indication of how small we are on a global scale. We could shut down the entire country and it still would make 3/5 of 5/8 worth of difference.

Although, the rest of the world would be laughing at us because we killed our economy just to show how “green” we are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_emissions

MO · 12-12-2009, 10:13 PM

So true however we do still have to worry about the greenies magic genie....'the per capita'rule.

HEMI POWER · 12-12-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I was warned by a plumber with connections in Canberra to NOT claim the subsidy if i fitted a tank because sooner or later that residence will attract a rainwater tax....

And that is coming,i feel for those who saved 100 odd dollars off there bill when installing a tank,unfortanately in the future those who have claimed there rebate will get charged a taxed on the percentage of water they hold on there property.

**Full Noise** · 12-12-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

And that is coming,i feel for those who saved 100 odd dollars off there bill when installing a tank,unfortanately in the future those who have claimed there rebate will get charged a taxed on the percentage of water they hold on there property.

I wonder how you’d go if you told the “powers that be” that you’ve removed your rainwater tank? There could be many legitimate reasons for doing so, or if you told them that you’ve disconnected it because you weren’t prepared to pay the tax on captured water.

Would they still be able to tax you?

MO · 13-12-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I wonder how you’d go if you told the “powers that be” that you’ve removed your rainwater tank? There could be many legitimate reasons for doing so, or if you told them that you’ve disconnected it because you weren’t prepared to pay the tax on captured water.

Would they still be able to tax you?

And heres the kicker they tax farmers for their dams,now you don't have to tell them how many dams you've got they already know.......good old satellite photography.

**cs123** · 13-12-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

China has and I think still has a one child policy,is it working?

From what I hear it is working ie reducing population growth. The problem with a zero or negative population growth is economic. How to you grow the economy with a shrinking population and how to you get over the ageing population hump where more people are retired than working.

vztrt · 13-12-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

China has and I think still has a one child policy,is it working?

Yes it has, India is close to being the country with the biggest population.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cs123

From what I hear it is working ie reducing population growth. The problem with a zero or negative population growth is economic. How to you grow the economy with a shrinking population and how to you get over the ageing population hump where more people are retired than working.

They still have population growth but its not exploding.

HEMI POWER · 14-12-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I wonder how you’d go if you told the “powers that be” that you’ve removed your rainwater tank? There could be many legitimate reasons for doing so, or if you told them that you’ve disconnected it because you weren’t prepared to pay the tax on captured water.

Would they still be able to tax you?

That is an interesting question but i highly doubt there will be any way out of it.Here in Vic on new houses being build we have to comply with a 5 star energy rating home,this is by means of installing a Solar Hotwater service or by fitting a rainwater tank.